Contest Idea: AI Wars

[Mooglefrooglian]

As the title implied, a friend (mrzwach) and I had an amazing idea for something to do while beta was down, which is make an AI.

And to go farther, battle different people's AIs.

It's great while multiplayer is down, and it does bring some attention to a sadly neglected area of the editor, which is AI. We need tutorials, and this could inspire some people to write some.

So as for contest goals or different places you could enter AI:

• General best battle AI. Winner would be the creator of the AI that has the most wins.
• Most awesome AI. Perhaps a mass SCV/medicopter drop on the enemy base, complete with perfect micro to prevent losing any SCVs.
• Fastest techer. Ultralisks in 30 seconds or something (yah, it's impossible).
• Best expander (perhaps the AI can take over the entire map within 5 minutes or something).

Creating AI doesn't look to be hard in the editor. If you have looked at any of the Blizzard AI files, you can queue any kind of unit, and the computer will wait until it has resources, and you can set up scout groups and stuff. Difficulty will probably be minimal for a simple battle bot, but for something involving mass micro, hard.

Would anyone else be interested in this?

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Do you know these AIs that they used with illegal launchers? I dont see a point in launchers with Patch 9 and the Editor anyway but there could be use of those AIs they made.

Do you know how to import an AI script/those AIs or whatever in a map? Cause I want to import whatever is needed in my melee map, make the AI use those killer strategies they do on those AIs.

Im asking since I needed and because th fact that you're talking about AIs suggest you know how to use AIs in a map.

 

[Mooglefrooglian]

Its fairly simple if you look through the triggers. Notice the Init AI trigger in every default GUI thing? You can import script files, and with tools like Moonlite and Andromeda things will get easier as we go along. I have yet to figure out how to do everything, but thats because I havent even looked. This idea is like 5 minutes old, .

This is to see if people are interested, not the actuual contest rules or anything. We can make those if anyone cares, and obviously those would include instructions on how to add AI to your map.

 

[mrzwach]

This will be interesting, ;D

Also, here, I archived all the AI galaxy code for your convenience.

On a side note, it appears that some of the AI stuff is stored in XML files.
// Reaper AI is left in TactTerrAI to serve as an example of two different ways to write the same
// AI. To see the xml equivalent of the Reaper AI, look in TacticalData.xml and TargetFindData.xml.
// In general, AI implemented in galaxy scripts will be slower than AI implemented in data.
// If it is convenient to express AI in data, one should do so. In this case, converting reaper AI
// to xml resulted in a 2x performance gain.

I'll post the xml files for these two sometime soon.


edit: also, neither of us have made AIs before. Contest is more of just for fun.

Anyways, I don't think we really need much in terms of contest rules - basically just make sure that you can limit the APM of your AI to a certain number (can be chosen later) and that your AI doesn't cheat or something, if thats possible.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

I mean, they made these AIs:

http://sc2.nibbits.com/assets/starcrack-ai/files/160/

Download it, files inside are:

AIDifficulty.galaxy
Trigger libs (folder) Protoss0.galaxy, TacticalAI.galaxy,TerranLate.galaxy and many other

So I dont work with Andromeda or Moonlite since I dont wotk with scripts, codes. JASS or similar. So how can you use those files in your map to make the Comp use them and which of them as they are many? Im not asking how to make an AI but how to use those.

 

[Mooglefrooglian]

You could import the scripts, and overwrite the base MPQ I suppose. You could also just import them and do a simple custom script include "aisomething.galaxy".

Look, we don't know how to add all of this yet, but we know it is absolutely possible. We are looking for suggestions, and concerns about the contest, not the actual technical aspects of how (which I should have covered by tonight). If you're interested, do mention it. If you have an idea for a way to grade, or some sort of sub-contest to add (like best mining AI, etc) do suggest away. If you're just plain interested, make a post so we know it's worth the effort to bother with this contest.

 

[mrzwach]

Actually, AI's are located in Base.sc2data, which is present in every mod. I'll try to figure out if we can just have mods and then stick em on a map to test.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Actually, AI's are located in Base.sc2data, which is present in every mod. I'll try to figure out if we can just have mods and then stick em on a map to test.

If you edit a map with MPQ editor you will see some folders and files. inlcuding strips. I could do ti with MPQ editor to edit my map but dont know where/what to import frm these. Basically creating folders with Ladyks MPQ editor and adding files in it is the same as importing files frm the Import Manager and setting them a path. So these .galaxy files could be added to a map I think as before there was Patch 9 and those who made maps made 'AI maps' somehow, dont know and withotu having to replace your main Liberty files lol.

 

[Mooglefrooglian]

Mods definitely seem the way to go.

On the actual contest, we could probably make a sub category for best ai vs human. If an AI can beat anyone, then it would win or something.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Ok I get it, it is unknown. I was just asking if you already know how to use those, np. I could make an AI 'articially' with just triggering it what to do and I mean just to play a little melee frm time to time due to the comps being retarded, it's not like Im gonna waste much time to play vs comps

 

[Mooglefrooglian]

Hell, we could have an observer match when BNet is back up and place bets on AIs and such in a great 8 player FFA. Think of the win.

 

[mrzwach]

void AIMeleeTerr (int player) {
    int mainState = AIState(player, e_mainState);

    if (mainState == e_mainState_Init)              { TerranInit(player);     }

    else if (mainState == e_mainState_OpenGnd0)     { TerranOpenGnd0(player); }

    else if (mainState == e_mainState_OpenAir0)     { TerranOpenAir0(player); }

    else if (mainState == e_mainState_Mid0)         { TerranMid0(player);     }

    else if (mainState == e_mainState_Late0)        { TerranLate0(player);    }

    else if (mainState == e_mainState_Off)          { EndMeleeScript(player); }
    else if (mainState == e_mainState_Disabled)     {                         }
    
    else { ErrorMeleeScript(player, "Invalid mainState"); }
}

I'm thinking we can just intercept this function, and then have it call different functions based on what AI is being used by the player. We know it always calls (race)Init at the very beginning, so depending on how each person codes their AI we can just have it call a function to start them off.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Hell, we could have an observer match when BNet is back up and place bets on AIs and such in a great 8 player FFA. Think of the win.

Are you in Europe, I'd gladly observe that thing cause hmm looks like I felt bored not chatting with any1 and this will sure be great - But you dont need to obs, you can be observer on a map. select player 1 comp player 2 comp , you observer, save map, run map offline, save replay, upload replay, all see how PC plays.

Hey that's a great idea - a tournament of computers, make bracket AIs vs AIs, only 1 AI will reach and win the final. w00t

void AIMeleeTerr (int player) {
    int mainState = AIState(player, e_mainState);

    if (mainState == e_mainState_Init)              { TerranInit(player);     }

    else if (mainState == e_mainState_OpenGnd0)     { TerranOpenGnd0(player); }

    else if (mainState == e_mainState_OpenAir0)     { TerranOpenAir0(player); }

    else if (mainState == e_mainState_Mid0)         { TerranMid0(player);     }

    else if (mainState == e_mainState_Late0)        { TerranLate0(player);    }

    else if (mainState == e_mainState_Off)          { EndMeleeScript(player); }
    else if (mainState == e_mainState_Disabled)     {                         }
    
    else { ErrorMeleeScript(player, "Invalid mainState"); }
}

I'm thinking we can just intercept this function, and then have it call different functions based on what AI is being used by the player. We know it always calls (race)Init at the very beginning, so depending on how each person codes their AI we can just have it call a function to start them off.

If you feel like figuring out frm those links I posted with AI, go for it, I cant help with scripts as i dont use them

 

[mrzwach]

Yeah, I looked at it, but the problem is the way they did it allows for only one AI for each race.

Additionally, if you so much as touch any of the race files (ie importing them into a map/MPQ) it causes the game to break. Might not have earlier, but it certainly isn't possible now.

I'm thinking, just create the AI mostly from scratch but use the real AI files as reference. Could be interesting,


EDIT: Actually, I'm going to look in to using their launcher to see if it lets me edit stuff.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Fastest techer. Ultralisks in 30 seconds or something (yah, it's impossible).

It is possible, set the AI bonuse (im sure they have one still) to 10000% resources and 9999999% build rate.

Best expander (perhaps the AI can take over the entire map within 5 minutes or something).

Same as above.

So far I can not get an AI started for a non computer player, which is annoying. I basically wanted to force AI into empty slots but it aint working.

 

[Mooglefrooglian]

I copied the AI created by a certain third party into my map with simple imports, and it actually worked. I'll make a package or something, which people can then modify for their own maps.

Also I'd kinda prefer less cheating. Although, a special cateogry for winner with infinite resources could be great... with an AI's ability to multitask, getting 200 starports out and spaming BC's could be doable.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Let me play vs cheating AI, it's the best way to train while no real opponents, some people NEED cheating AI. I want to apply it to my EI map. So how do you do it? Using those .galaxy files frm the link?

 

[mrzwach]

The contest is to create the strongest AI that does not cheat, but it would be fairly easy to just give them full map vision and extra resource income.

 

[GregerTheGreat]

This contest is a great idea. Although I have no idea how to create an AI. But i would surely like to try/learn.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

No offense guys but Im not sure you will be able to make so good AIs - I hate launchers and illegal crap programs but those AIs were a good idea and useful, they are scripts not programs. What makes those AI good is not that they gain 2x resources - they really acted human like, attacking from behind, dropping units on islands, attacking you non-stop, using counters to your strategy in latest versions.

You also need an understanding how a player should play even if you could code without a hitch.

But let me know if you can make an AI play with 2x resources, attack you and all that the AI has using this
http://sc2.nibbits.com/assets/starcrack-ai/files/160/

 

[Mooglefrooglian]

I was actually modifying those files and playing with them .

Looks like most of the AI making will be script based. Although, making a GUI wrapper library would also be doable.

We'll see what happens.

 

[mrzwach]

Sadly, despite all their work, their AIs are still dipshits who can't wall.

Oh yeah, and have you ever turtled against them? They just send wave after wave of attackings in a futile attempt to kill you, it seems.

Also, the reactive system is quite honestly badly made. Rather than trying to figure out counters based on what someone is going to make, the AI starts building counters for something that the enemy already has and has a lot of, and only does this once it actually sees the units. As opposed to a human player, which can start making anti-air when it sees a spire coming up. IMO, this is a definitive weakness for the AI player. Also, it appears that there is nothing allowing a terran AI to wall, which is quite honestly just laziness on Blizz/the coders parts. It would probably be rather difficult, but atm I would bet that any Terran AI would be quickly defeated by a ling rush.

Really, its unfortunate that we can't modify any of the AI build natives; currently all they can do is build structures in "towns", and you cannot tell it where to build things, preventing walling and proxies. So meh.

Last note, some of the "counters" that the guy has programmed in are rather bad. Example: It counters archons with hellions and marines, despite the fact that archons are very large (preventing the Hellion effect from hitting too much) not light (making hellions nigh-useless) and deal AoE damage with a buff vs Bio (lul, marines die!). Another example: It counters Hellions with zerglings. Hellions fucking eat zerglings for breakfast.

And yet, this AI is still considered to be good. You were stating that you needed to be good at the game to code a good AI? Hardly, all you need to be good at is theory crafting and have a basic understanding of the game, an artificial intelligence can micro and macro units with optimal efficiency, dodging vikings with mutalisks, spamming Spawn Larva like a motherfucker, and expanding a network of creep tumors (8 total) constantly across the map. All at the same time.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Sadly, despite all their work, their AIs are still dipshits who can't wall.

LOL why need wall when they make 2x resources and come and own you, what's the point in playing vs turtles?

Haha knowing what a player is going to do in advance is a little impossible for AI. It is better to do after you produce something cause then the AI will just mass its counter very fast, before would be waste of time esp if you never actually make it.

Theoycrafting won't be the best choice when it is better to make a computerized player cause pretty much they use the same strats vs specific race and it would be better to do what Zerg usually does vs terran vs protoss etc, and apart from that ofc to build something else as a counter if the opponent makes something also different from the expected strategy. That's the best strategy a computer can use and best training.

Plus, even the old versions AIs had this - one game the computer makes ground units, another may mass carriers so there was a variation of strategy too..

We'll see what happens.

tell me whenevr yoiu find a way to use those AIs directly without even modifying, I want to apply say their latest AI to my map.

 

[mrzwach]

LOL why need wall when they make 2x resources and come and own you, what's the point in playing vs turtles?

You... are asking why they need to wall?
I mean, cmon, your name suggests you are a Terran player. Also, one of the ideas is to make a good AI without 2x resources, the very fact that it needs twice as much money as a human to even stand a fighting chance is quite depressing to me.

Haha knowing what a player is going to do in advance is a little impossible for AI. It is better to do after you produce something cause then the AI will just mass its counter very fast, before would be waste of time esp if you never actually make it.

Scouting. What do you do when you see a spire going up early game? Do you continue making zealots until Mutalisks are a major threat, and then you build a starport? Also, the AI already builds things based on what the enemy has, building counters to specific threats if the enemy player has a certain building would not be extremely hard.

Plus, even the old versions AIs had this - one game the computer makes ground units, another may mass carriers so there was a variation of strategy too..

Variation of strategy is just randomness, which I personally dislike.

Anyways, what I mean by reactive is that the AI is truly reactive, more than just "if there are lots of zerglings, build HELLIONS!" It should also counter general strategies, ie rushing if a player fast expands, expanding if the enemy is holed up in their base, etc.

EDIT: Also, I could think of ways to make the AI use more specific strategies, for example if they are zerg and see someone is walled up but they don't have siege tanks or a ton of marines, they could try doing a baneling bust provided they had the gas to pull it off.

 

[Mooglefrooglian]

tell me whenevr yoiu find a way to use those AIs directly without even modifying, I want to apply say their latest AI to my map.

I already had that in of course. In my test map, all of the AI's massed siege tanks and marines/thors and raped each other, while I spammed nukes and killed them .

The StarCrack AI isn't that good.

I've uploaded everything into a nice zip file. Just import it properly, and everything should work fine. AIDifficulty should be in the base directory, with Triggerlibs in its own folder. Should be fairly obvious how to do that.

After being imported, your map should be using the StarCrack AI. It's also free to modify.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

I did it, just import AIDifficulty as it is without setting path and the TriggerLib folder also as it is with what it contains and when the map started it read 'prepare for terrible, terrible damage.' Worked fine, now I can play vs imba comp on my Echo Isles map (but could do it for other maps) and get owned haha. And you just made it so we can use our editors and with them play vs AI, not having to use some illegal launchers.

Did you have to modify things to make it work or no need, just import?

You just gg-fied launchers, made them useless

nge?

 

[Statharas]

Do you know these AIs that they used with illegal launchers? I dont see a point in launchers with Patch 9 and the Editor anyway but there could be use of those AIs they made.

Do you know how to import an AI script/those AIs or whatever in a map? Cause I want to import whatever is needed in my melee map, make the AI use those killer strategies they do on those AIs.

Im asking since I needed and because th fact that you're talking about AIs suggest you know how to use AIs in a map.

Just import the galaxy files o.o
It's that simple.

 

[Cardinian]

Last note, some of the "counters" that the guy has programmed in are rather bad. Example: It counters archons with hellions and marines, despite the fact that archons are very large (preventing the Hellion effect from hitting too much) not light (making hellions nigh-useless) and deal AoE damage with a buff vs Bio (lul, marines die!). Another example: It counters Hellions with zerglings. Hellions fucking eat zerglings for breakfast.

Are you sure the code isn't using the Archons as a counter against Hellions & Marines?
or
Using Hellions as the counter to Zerglings? As opposed to the other way around?

And, of course it is going to be depressing. Artificial Intelligence is something that requires lots of man power and big budgets to pull off anything remotely 'intelligent'.

While I think that this competition is a great idea. Blizzard simply haven't catered enough for the modding community (surprise, surprise). It will take weeks, maybe months, before the SC2 modding community unravels how exactly to modify and tweak AI scripts. And, it is still in Beta. Who know's how the actual game release might change. Especially the Galaxy Editor.

But, if anyone can create an AI which can beat a half-decent human player... I'll be surprised!

 

[mrzwach]

No, it really won't take that long.

Looking at the way Blizz made AIs, you can turn their shitty very easy AI into a rather skilled AI simply by optimizing what it builds and how it builds it. Because the AI has
"perfect" micro, it can manage things with far greater efficiency than humans.

However, the problem is that essentially all the AI does (and can do with the current AI functions) is build units and buildings in a base then attack enemies with it. Which is kinda saddening.

Also, I am very srs about the counters.

		if(ht == c_PU_Stalker || st == c_PU_Stalker
			|| ht ==  c_PU_HighTemplar || st ==  c_PU_HighTemplar
				|| ht == c_TU_Hellion || st == c_TU_Hellion)
		{
		
			AISetStockUnitNext( player, 14, c_ZU_Roach, c_stockAlways);
			AISetStockUnitNext( player, 20, c_ZU_Zergling, c_stockAlways);
		}

		if(ht == c_ZU_Zergling || st == c_ZU_Zergling
			|| ht == c_PU_DarkTemplar || st == c_PU_DarkTemplar 
				|| ht == c_PU_Archon || st == c_PU_Archon
					|| ht == c_TU_Marine || st == c_TU_Marine
						|| ht == c_TU_Ghost || st == c_TU_Ghost
							|| ht == c_PU_Zealot || st == c_PU_Zealot)
		{
		
			AISetStockUnitNext( player, 2, c_TB_Factory, c_stockAlways);
			AISetStockUnitNext( player, 2, c_TB_FactoryReactor, c_stockAlways);
			AISetStockUnitNext( player, 8, c_TU_Hellion, c_stockAlways);
			AISetStockUnitNext( player, 10, c_TU_Marine, c_stockAlways);
		}

FYI, ht is the highest threat unit, while st is the second highest threat unit. Kinda lol.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

The current AI does some very good things, if you want to make it better , you could by making them bloc their base. As well as AI doesn't attack destructible rocks to expand there , needs better detection for expands..

But starting from zero wouldnt be a good idea, as in gl making it even that good.

The 2x resources is a good way to not be made an easy AI. SC2 is a game where you can own bigger armies even when in the right moment, so this is very effective currently playing vs 2x resources. Played like 5 games, won 3 in direct battles, no turtling, using islands bla bla., 2 lost cause he made more and managed to kill mine

 

[mrzwach]

I don't plan on starting from nothing, probably using a slightly altered version of their waves system (when I can figure out exactly what that system does anyways, lawl), specifically oriented for things like harassment that the AI is incapable of doing. Probably add in some more advanced micromanagement, like viking/marauder kiting, which really wouldn't be that difficult (have them move away from their target only if their target cannot reach/attack them). Also, some of the viking AI irritates me, suicidal vikings that jump to the ground simply to get torn up by an enemy army is kinda silly.

 

[Mooglefrooglian]

Don't forget, come release, Blizzard will also have more advanced AI which we can learn from then.

Problem with Terran wall blocking is UNBLOCKING. You'd have to intercept when the terran army moves out and drop down the appropriate supply depots. Which is pretty much impossible AFAIK.

 

[Cardinian]

Well, the AI system is pretty limited...

From what I've managed to piece together, all you can really program the AI to do is, construct certain buildings, certain units, certain upgrades in a certain order. The AI cannot 'learn', that is, the AI cannot put 1+ 1 together. A probe crossing the map in the mid game to a human player is guaranteed to be a nexus expansion or a proxy-pylon setup. To an AI, its just a probe.

Since each map differs so much, it will also be very hard to enable an AI to know what 'blocking' is. A simple test reveals that even on StarCracks Insane difficulty, if you block your ramp (as Protoss) using 1 Pylon & 2 Gateways, and then put Photon Cannons on the cliff. As your opponent (Zerg) approaches, his priority is to destroy the Photon Cannons, but as he approaches the ramp, he realizes his zerglings, roaches and hydralisks cannot reach the Cannons. So he retreats.

So, instead of realizing that his force is more than enough to punch through the Wall and destroy the cannons, he retreats. That is just one problem with blocking. Can you imagine trying to make the AI use blocking to his advantage?

And a few people have mentioned about 'micro'. This too, will be damned hard to program itno an AI. Not sure how much is possible through purely AI scripting, but through GUI coding I know it will be possible.

A couple examples. Drone/SCV/Probe scout & harass, this might be possible to pull off, but will take a really clever set of scripts and testing. Making the drone harass an SCV which is building something, but then pull off as soon as it is attacked... scouting around an enemy base... putting up an extractor/refinery/assimilator as a block... etc...

Stalkers & Blink - this will be easy enough. If an AI's stalker reaches -10% hp or 0 shields, then blink as far away as possible from enemies, preferably to High-Ground and wait for shields to regenerate. More cleverly, you will make the AI do some threat-assessment first. If the attacking force which damaged the Stalker to 0 shields or -10% hp is melee (zerglings for example), then the stalker will blink out of range from the zerglings but continue attacking. The stalker will ONLY do that, if his remaining friendly forces are enough to hold off the zerglings for at least another ten seconds (therefore, he can blink again)

Reapers & Economic Harassment - another hard one. You will have to teach the AI to think a little bit. Since technically, seeing the entire map with no fog of war is cheating... The AI will have to scout where his opponents base is, and then attack with Reapers at the right angle. And focussing the enemy players economic units. You will need to give the AI some threat-assessment, as in, can the reapers throw some D8 charges and knock out that pylon, or should they rather focus-fire some probes and jump down?

So, AI is hard. And good luck to anyone who wants to pursue this!

 

[Statharas]

If you can add variables of some sort in the ai script, it's possible to do wonders.
If enemy units sighted < units having advantage against them, then attack, else retreat.

 

[Cardinian]

@stathisdis, that will still take a lot of coding and play-testing. The main problem will be making the AI intellegent like a human. Right now they don't need to scout, they see the entire map. Zerg just sends an overlord to your location on map start. Protoss & Terran send a probe/scv respectively - this just creates the illusion that they are scouting. But you will never see an AI make a mistake in finding you, because they already know where you are.

As for variables in the AI script, it would be amazing. But the AI simply won't know how to use some abilities effectively, mainly Blink, Force Field and general Cliff-Advantage.

In my opinion, the best AI will always have an economic advantage, make use of units which can raid an opponents economy (such as Reapers, Burrowed Roaches, Zealot rushes etc). If an AI is caught out but still has enough units to do some sort of lasting damage, they will suicide instead of running away. For example if 10 hydralisks are caught by 15 Zealots with Charge, the hydralisks will realise they can't run - and instead try and knock out a pylon or gateway, maybe burrowing as they get red hp.

 

[mrzwach]

Actually, if we could code in a walling system, force field could be used effectively (ie if the AI can see that opponents are on a lower cliff level and the ramp is in range, use forcefields). Blink could be simple: wait for melee opponents to get near, then blink away. If possible, blink towards nearest cliff increase.

Also, drone/worker harass could be done very well. Simply put, it would check around the base, and watch for a worker to be occupied - ie an SCV building a rax or such. Then, it would attack the worker. When more threats came towards it, it would attempt to run away.

Regardless, all this will be possible soon (maybe). Soon being when Moonlite gets autocompletion.

 

[PurplePoot]

Terran, I find it funny that you were going on about how you are clearly better than me because US players are worse than EU players and yet you can't even consistently beat the StarCrack AI, which is so incredibly yawnworthy that even my friend--who has played about 10 games of SC2 total and doesn't know how to do anything other than wall his choke and mass marines/tanks behind it, then push out with a giant fleet of ravens with autoturrets--can beat it half the time.

That said, I don't think that this contest is a very good idea, because the only meaningful AIs would be 1v1 AIs (the other examples you give are pretty terrible, all they are are a player loading up qxc's build order tester, playing a few games, working out a build order, then making the AI mimic it), and they would take a very long time to do a good job on (just look at how long it's taken them to make the StarCrack AI, which plays poorly even when cheating). FFA is pretty stupid because it basically involves making a giant fleet of capital ships and A-moving with them, and as a result the quality of the AI is not reflected in its victory or defeat in an FFA game.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

So PurplePoot, I stopped talking about it you want to dig an old topic? Cool. Then I won't be the reason for this thread going offtopic and spammed cause I didnt start it.

Ever seen me using the words 'I am better than you'? No, Im saying, you are nothing to impress me cause from Platinum I can get into Diamond, who is better im not saying, but Im not worshipping you like some here... cause your Diamond isnt much and while there are some good players on East lots of the opponents are poor, like Azeroth sucked compared to Northrend. Europe also has bad, but US servers have MORE - see Azeroth vs Northrend difficulty for reference. Dont believe me? Ask someone good on Europe cause those in Azeroth will say - 'im 80% so im good'. Well and Im like - 'Cool story bro! You are 80% RT im 100% solo on your server gtfo'.

Before posting shit maybe read more carefully? I own computer AI on my map, the IMBA map (where they quickly come to your base with 2x more units) as much as I want. Im playing the way I play vs real people, using the same strats. Why would I play if im not training what I use vs people? And I still win, sure it may happen to lose. You never lose, Pro? Before I played vs people, before I got in beta, I could own a computer by just massing air - banshees, BCruiser, GG they lose. I can camp and turtle and beat them. Is this the way you play vs people? My idea is to train what I use vs people, not just to beat AI... so clueless guy.

I've played with a cool Canadian guy who was good, in war3 was Pro ladder Azeroth but I still owned him more than once... well still I liked him. He was cool unlike the majority of Azeroth tards, you are starting to look like those I mean with teasing me over a casual loss that can happen.. poor poor you

Why EU has better players one guy said, 'proof or it didn't happen' he says. ROFL see the top scene of war3, the top scene of SC2 now, who has the better players? Just like bnet features, don't talk, DO NOT ARGUE when don't know a thing.

This is a mapmaking community, so you are forgiven to not know as much as you dont argue without knowledge cause you are just making fool of yourself. Whoever that just follows the scene sees you will laugh at you so hard..

 

[PurplePoot]

It's not "teasing", it's important to establish in balance discussions. And yes, I do play the same way vs AI as vs normal players.

However, your post brings up what I am saying is wrong with this contest; AIs have trouble with mass air balls and chokes, and combined with the fact that in FFA a mass air ball is such a strong strategy as it is, I get the impression that an AI FFA match would be decided by turtling and teching to Battlecruisers.