Classic HD research

[LongbowMan]

Hello all, thought I should share my progress a bit more. I've seen a lot of people praise Warcraft HD pack for Starcraft II (I also kinda like it), and since I do 3D as well, I thought it would be cool to explore this style, starting with human main. I finished Town Hall and Keep so far, and overall I'm satisfied with how it turn out. As you can imagine, the hardest part is texturing - I use a mix of technics, including procedural generation from highpoly sculpts (mostly stone walls), AI upscaling, and pure handpainting of course. I also decided not to use normal maps to keep it simple and to stay compatible with classic Warcraft III. All the shapes and colors are kept as close to the original as possible.
To make myself feel more invested, I also post regular updates on Patreon and Boosty, free for all (at least for now).

What do you think? Do you think Reforged graphics would be better accepted with this art direction?

 

[Pandaprewmaster325]

the community doing blizzard work again this is where the money should go not for blizzard for fans like you , insane monster and others it annoys me that blizzard is the one that gets paid money when people buy the game just for them to make it worse and never add content this here is what we should have got in the 2.0 update but oh well lets cheapen out on our RTS fans again.

 

[LongbowMan]

the community doing blizzard work again this is where the money should go not for blizzard for fans like you , insane monster and others it annoys me that blizzard is the one that gets paid money when people buy the game just for them to make it worse and never add content this here is what we should have got in the 2.0 update but oh well lets cheapen out on our RTS fans again.

That always puzzled me - Warcraft is such a popular franchise, Blizzard didn't even have to lure skilled artists with big salaries or other benefits. A lot of professionals would be excited to be able to officially participate in Warcraft remaster, even part-time, even on very low budget. A few senior artists could produce all the models in this style in less than a year provided they are guided by an in-house art director. Why would they go for that overdetailed mess called Reforged, and with a generic outsource studio that has little to do with the franchise, is beyond my understanding.

 

[PurgeandFire]

This looks awesome! And it is all that I would ever hope for when it comes to a graphical remaster.

While reforged models look interesting in isolation (close-up), most of the models are pretty unrecognizable and just don't look good from a distance. Not to mention all the size differences. I honestly think they should've kept it simple and just increased the model fidelity but preserved the original designs.

Would you be able to post a screenshot of what that model looks like in-game from a standard distance? Maybe side-by-side with the original?

 

[Pandaprewmaster325]

That always puzzled me - Warcraft is such a popular franchise, Blizzard didn't even have to lure skilled artists with big salaries or other benefits. A lot of professionals would be excited to be able to officially participate in Warcraft remaster, even part-time, even on very low budget. A few senior artists could produce all the models in this style in less than a year provided they are guided by an in-house art director. Why would they go for that overdetailed mess called Reforged, and with a generic outsource studio that has little to do with the franchise, is beyond my understanding.

yeah me too the community is eager to help blizzard but they just dont contact hive workshop despite it being fundamental to this game life span , i could go on and on about reforged graphics whether it be the poor lighting the difference in unit silhouette like the footman stance in the OG compared to reforged and the difference in unit animation from attack to idle and more and the stiff idle animation of the portraits while the OG had very natural looking portrait animation and a lot more.

just give the game to hive people and im sure it will be fixed in no time

 

[LongbowMan]

Would you be able to post a screenshot of what that model looks like in-game from a standard distance? Maybe side-by-side with the original?

That would be illustrative, yeah! I'll post as soon as I convert, rn I'm busy downscaling and merging textures - current fidelity's a bit too much for RTS format.

 

[Kacpa2]

Drop dead gorgeous~
I would just like TC to be more vibrant like on original tiles.

EDIT: I do love overall execution of War3HD but it has its minor issues, face of characters and sometimes parts of design are to varrying degree off, some models are nigh perfect(sentry/ghost of vengeance models, Dark ranger, Moon Priestess, Watch tower) others have varrying deviations from design or texturing is everso slightly off or both. Its great basis though and would need minor tweaks in texturing especially to prepare it to look good as is just with diffuse textures ideally. The way modern WoW ingame style cinematics look for one; with option to add some faint and delicate specular highlights as an option to similar degree as in those.

 

[LongbowMan]

Drop dead gorgeous~
I would just like TC to be more vibrant like on original tiles.

EDIT: I do love overall execution of War3HD but it has its minor issues, face of characters and sometimes parts of design are to varrying degree off, some models are nigh perfect(sentry/ghost of vengeance models, Dark ranger, Moon Priestess, Watch tower) others have varrying deviations from design or texturing is everso slightly off or both. Its great basis though and would need minor tweaks in texturing especially to prepare it to look good as is just with diffuse textures ideally. The way modern WoW ingame style cinematics look for one; with option to add some faint and delicate specular highlights as an option to similar degree as in those.

You're right about the roof, and I noticed some other minor inconsistencies, I addressed them today. For example, the clock arrows were barely visible compared to the og thicc ones, the roof tiles were too small etc. There's one thing that drives me a bit crazy, though - after all the work I've put in the model, they look almost too similar, sometimes I look at them and think: "So that's it? The new one looks more polished but was it worth the effort?". Makes me slightly sad, considering all the hours I poured into it... I really don't know what else could be added to make a noticeable upgrade without deviating from the OG too much

 

[YourArthas]

You're right about the roof, and I noticed some other minor inconsistencies, I addressed them today. For example, the clock arrows were barely visible compared to the og thicc ones, the roof tiles were too small etc. There's one thing that drives me a bit crazy, though - after all the work I've put in the model, they look almost too similar, sometimes I look at them and think: "So that's it? The new one looks more polished but was it worth the effort?". Makes me slightly sad, considering all the hours I poured into it... I really don't know what else could be added to make a noticeable upgrade without deviating from the OG too much
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I’d say adding 3d detail would be the best. The wooden parts to start with

 

[RatzRatzzz]

Looks awesome!

Great idea - in fact, it would be very cool to see improved versions of buildings and decorations (and yes, they go well with classic graphics, especially if their HOTS and WoW models are used to create maps) – so your improved buildings will be a great gift for many mapmakers
In general, for some reason your idea reminded me of WC3 Reborn mod, where cool people also tried to re-create all WC3 models.

Good luck to you! Personally, I’ll be waiting for your new models with great interest!

 

[LongbowMan]

I’d say adding 3d detail would be the best. The wooden parts to start with

Good call! The thing is, most of the wood and other parts already have 3d volume It's not very obvious from camera distance, though. But I guess I can make them more pronounced to compensate...

 

[Kacpa2]

You're right about the roof, and I noticed some other minor inconsistencies, I addressed them today. For example, the clock arrows were barely visible compared to the og thicc ones, the roof tiles were too small etc. There's one thing that drives me a bit crazy, though - after all the work I've put in the model, they look almost too similar, sometimes I look at them and think: "So that's it? The new one looks more polished but was it worth the effort?". Makes me slightly sad, considering all the hours I poured into it... I really don't know what else could be added to make a noticeable upgrade without deviating from the OG too much
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View attachment 512448

Marvelous, i dont think it needs anything more. Though i'm curious how having those stone corner posts would look like on the back wall corners aswell, but mostly to see if it looks right of wrong. I dont really see a reason to deviate just for sake of it.
The upgrade is that you can zoom into it as much as you please in game and it always looks great. Old one doesnt look so good from upclose especially with all the mistakes. Yours does. It doesnt have to slap you in the face with a difference because this is the exact problem Reforged fell for under Sousa's art direction. Remaster of wc3 just should hold to scrutiny both from upclose and far away and look as fully realized original artstyle, and yours is exactly that

EDIT: i would also brighten the steps texture ever so slightly so top side of the steps is as bright as on og texture. I would stick to this bright eye catching colouring.(Same as Footman's mostly white-ish armour) Wall around the base already is in that nice shade and is massive improvement over original a bit muddy cobble texture.
Aswell as maybe trying to increase the tone of the wood closer ot old texture, new one is more natural and toned which i like, but i am curious if more reddish tone timber would look.
Same recommendations i have for Keep too, it shouldnt be darker than original, and if it is only ever so slightly. And stained glass should have a tiny bit more purple in it, i do love the new detail work on it though as on everything tbh.

Good call! The thing is, most of the wood and other parts already have 3d volume It's not very obvious from camera distance, though. But I guess I can make them more pronounced to compensate...

I say you have a pertfect balance. I also wouldnt go needlessly aggressive with 3d detail work for sake of reskins and such. As it is now is pretty much perfect. How much time did it take for you to make?

 

[LongbowMan]

Marvelous, i dont think it needs anything more. Though i'm curious how having those stone corner posts would look like on the back wall corners aswell, but mostly to see if it looks right of wrong. I dont really see a reason to deviate just for sake of it.
The upgrade is that you can zoom into it as much as you please in game and it always looks great. Old one doesnt look so good from upclose especially with all the mistakes. Yours does. It doesnt have to slap you in the face with a difference because this is the exact problem Reforged fell for under Sousa's art direction. Remaster of wc3 just should hold to scrutiny both from upclose and far away and look as fully realized original artstyle, and yours is exactly that

Man, I appreciate this so much! I had this exact logic behind the level of detail I've chosen, and your comment shows it actually works as intended. People like me just get to doubt everything the longer they spend on the projects. I also just realized that my version can be safely viewed from different angles, unlike the OG:

EDIT: i would also brighten the steps texture ever so slightly so top side of the steps is as bright as on og texture. I would stick to this bright eye catching colouring.(Same as Footman's mostly white-ish armour) Wall around the base already is in that nice shade and is massive improvement over original a bit muddy cobble texture.
Aswell as maybe trying to increase the tone of the wood closer ot old texture, new one is more natural and toned which i like, but i am curious if more reddish tone timber would look.
Same recommendations i have for Keep too, it shouldnt be darker than original, and if it is only ever so slightly. And stained glass should have a tiny bit more purple in it, i do love the new detail work on it though as on everything tbh.

Amazing feedback! I'm glad you commented on the cobble walls, that was another point of doubt for me. Maybe I will shatter some of the stones later though, to make them just a little bit less blocky. I'll take a closer look on the spots you mentioned, textures definitely need some tweaks if I want the remastered content to blend in seemlessly. Ideally, I wish them to be accepted by competitive players even.

I say you have a pertfect balance. I also wouldnt go needlessly aggressive with 3d detail work for sake of reskins and such. As it is now is pretty much perfect. How much time did it take for you to make?

I started around November 2023 by messing with textures using online AI upscalers. I think I just got inspired after all the discussions about the upscaled icons in patch 2.0
Since then I just kept trying different stuff when I had free time (after work and on weekends) until I figured the pipeline more or less. I guess you can call it a pilot building, heh.

 

[Kacpa2]

Glad to be of service
Other bit of feedback that came to mind is maybe keeping some. lf that ponounced kink in middle of the roof, its very subtle in yours, though it also makes the townhall look a bit more pristine. Other thsn that just tweaking the saturation/color tones of various elements.(rooftiles i would still have a tad more vibrant). If you want to try to different style for the wall i would like to see it too
Other bit would be maybe makong the back simmetrical so the plank on the roght side is the dsme as on the left, instead of middle section repeating itself.

Well technicly you have 3 buildings in one since its a Keep and Castle too :v

P.S. Having back of the building as presentable as the front is useful for RP maps like mine, people build their towns and rotate buildings around so it is important in that nieche waswell
(Especiallt given how some buildings in wc3 dont even have textured backfacing geometry sometimes)

 

[LongbowMan]

Alright, I guess I can say that now I'm content with how it looks. Spent most of the weekend tweaking the roof, but it was worth it - will use this approach in other buildings. Thanks for the feedback, gentlemen!

 

[Kacpa2]

Alright, I guess I can say that now I'm content with how it looks. Spent most of the weekend tweaking the roof, but it was worth it - will use this approach in other buildings. Thanks for the feedback, gentlemen!
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Looks lovely i like the side rooftiles looking more fitting, but i think the top of the clocktower spindle roof is a bit too pronounced now, like the cap on the very top now stricks out to all sides a bit too much, more subtle version on previous version was spot on i think, showing the shape but more subtle. I feel it was already noticeable enough how it was intended to look. Aside of it's literarily as if old model is me looking from a distance and i have no glasses on and then i put them on and its all sharp and clear
Cobble of the border wall being slightly different on top of the wall is an improvement in my eyes it's both more detailed but realisticly simplier and cleaner.
How is the polycount like?

 

[YourArthas]

Looks lovely i like the side rooftiles looking more fitting, but i think the top of the clocktower spindle roof is a bit too pronounced now, like the cap on the very top now stricks out to all sides a bit too much, more subtle version on previous version was spot on i think, showing the shape but more subtle. I feel it was already noticeable enough how it was intended to look. Aside of it's literarily as if old model is me looking from a distance and i have no glasses on and then i put them on and its all sharp and clear
Cobble of the border wall being slightly different is an improvement in my eyes it's both more detailed but realisticly simplier and cleaner.
How is the polycount like?

I agree the metal roof is abit too much pronounced in latest version

 

[LongbowMan]

I agree the metal roof is abit too much pronounced in latest version

Aye, I guess I went a bit crazy with it while pushing the details. Easy to fix

How is the polycount like?

Around 7k tris alltogether. I keep it as clean as I can but I don't restrain myself from adding details like protruding stones or shingles.

 

[Kacpa2]

Aye, I guess I went a bit crazy with it while pushing the details. Easy to fix

Around 7k tris alltogether. I keep it as clean as I can but I don't restrain myself from adding details like protruding stones or shingles.

I love those details. 7k sounds very sensible. Reforged is at 80-100+k for no good reason. I think it looks great now~. You are going to update Keep next with same tweaks(vivid rooftiles, colour scheme to be closer to original ie brighter/whiter stone)?

 

[LongbowMan]

Reforged is at 80-100+k for no good reason.

80k??? My head just went

ou are going to update Keep next with same tweaks(vivid rooftiles, colour scheme to be closer to original ie brighter/whiter stone)?

Yeah, I'm currently updating roof (god, I hate this part), then I'll test the Keep in WE to check how big is the difference. It might actually look brighter there.

 

[LongbowMan]

Aside of it's literarily as if old model is me looking from a distance and i have no glasses on and then i put them on and its all sharp and clear

Sorry, I couldn't resist, it reminded of that old meme so much

 

[Kacpa2]

Sorry, I couldn't resist, it reminded of that old meme so much
View attachment 513088

I dont mind xD
One other idea i had isnto have 2nd version kind ofnlike how Low quality models exist i wc3, but instead of being just Footmen with no feet, it could be sloghtly simplified(SD+/medium quality model) model that keeps most of the imrpovements but stuff like townhall walls and clockntower are flat or have onpy some elements modelled out so it leaves more room for reskins to alter the look of them, without.
It could be used as LOD if wc3 actually did use such and for community it would be a model to use for reskins.

 

[LongbowMan]

It could be used as LOD if wc3 actually did use such and for community it would be a model to use for reskins.

This sounds a bit too complicated, I'm afraid. Keeping additional versions snowballs rapidly as the project goes. In some fields, like conversion from Maya to Warcraft, it doubles the work, and if I need to change something later, I will have to do that twice, too. I do keep in mind modding needs though, and that's why I aim make it simple - not just to save my time but also to achieve higher quality look without making it unapproachable for wider user audience. That's why I don't use normal maps, work in relatively low resolution and polycount, etc. As for reskins, I think people will find a way, lion heads can be turned in something else, with enough imagination.

 

[YourArthas]

This sounds a bit too complicated, I'm afraid. Keeping additional versions snowballs rapidly as the project goes. In some fields, like conversion from Maya to Warcraft, it doubles the work, and if I need to change something later, I will have to do that twice, too. I do keep in mind modding needs though, and that's why I aim make it simple - not just to save my time but also to achieve higher quality look without making it unapproachable for wider user audience. That's why I don't use normal maps, work in relatively low resolution and polycount, etc. As for reskins, I think people will find a way, lion heads can be turned in something else, with enough imagination.

Yeah I agree. Anything lower than this would be classic anyways

 

[Archian]

A classic HD section sounds interesting.

 

[Kacpa2]

This sounds a bit too complicated, I'm afraid. Keeping additional versions snowballs rapidly as the project goes. In some fields, like conversion from Maya to Warcraft, it doubles the work, and if I need to change something later, I will have to do that twice, too. I do keep in mind modding needs though, and that's why I aim make it simple - not just to save my time but also to achieve higher quality look without making it unapproachable for wider user audience. That's why I don't use normal maps, work in relatively low resolution and polycount, etc. As for reskins, I think people will find a way, lion heads can be turned in something else, with enough imagination.

I know~ Plus i think old model in this case is mkre than sufficient for reskins' sake since it wont stand out as much of a sore thumb compared to RF and sd assets.

 

[LongbowMan]

Keep actually blended in nicely pretty quick, just needed to adjust a few gradients.

 

[Kacpa2]

Keep actually blended in nicely pretty quick, just needed to adjust a few gradients.
View attachment 513863

Gorgeous Did you change the rooftile texturing yet again? I think it looked better in prior one. Those white-ish blemishes on edges of some tiles of the original look more like jpg compression artifacts on original rather than intentional detail, i think cleaner rooftiles on the version you shown with light blue team colour was nicer to the eye overall. I do like it still though.

 

[LongbowMan]

Gorgeous Did you change the rooftile texturing yet again? I think it looked better in prior one. Those white-ish blemishes on edges of some tiles of the original look more like jpg compression artifacts on original rather than intentional detail, i think cleaner rooftiles on the version you shown with light blue team colour was nicer to the eye overall. I do like it still though.

Yeah, I changed the texture to look closer to original - mainly because without those light worn edges it looked like it was cast from colored plastic. Also, neutral player's roof looked completely black. I know it doesn't look perfect for red player, but for most colors it gives a nice touch. Can't promise there won't be any more iterations though

 

[Kacpa2]

Yeah, I changed the texture to look closer to original - mainly because without those light worn edges it looked like it was cast from colored plastic. Also, neutral player's roof looked completely black. I know it doesn't look perfect for red player, but for most colors it gives a nice touch. Can't promise there won't be any more iterations though

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Yeah i see now
Its looks really good even with neutral/black teamcolour. Nice bit of contrast

 

[LongbowMan]

Damn, this basement was harder than I expected. I had to manually extrude so many stones

 

[LongbowMan]

I should really stop caring that much about geometry intersections or it will drive me crazy

 

[RatzRatzzz]

I should really stop caring that much about geometry intersections or it will drive me crazy
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It looks incredibly beautiful!

I really like the stained glass on the castle and other small details

 

[YourArthas]

I should really stop caring that much about geometry intersections or it will drive me crazy
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Incredible looking to me. It looks more HD as it progressed from town hall to castle lol

 

[LongbowMan]

It looks more HD as it progressed from town hall to castle lol

Haha, well it makes sense in a certain way. And I think it's that stonework makes more difference than timber

 

[Kacpa2]

I should really stop caring that much about geometry intersections or it will drive me crazy
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You shouldnt worry about it too much, tho i believe that your keep model is just ever so slightly wider than original one and it could make it more severe. Solution could be just creating some clever merge of the wall and keep section with exit onto the wall from it. so it looks less bothersome to you, plus backside of the building you could change a tiny bit as its not normally seen and its just a repeat of the textrure from the front. It could be modified to something else while sorting out the overlapping or 'explain it' as by design.

My only bit of feedback would be tto have perhaps a bit more subtle stepping on the rooftiles and more of hte wooden beam visible especially on the Keep upgrade because old one had it quite substantially vibible and in yours the the side finish tiles cover most of it making it looks quite small as a detail.(perhaps making the sides of those tils shorter/smaller would be enough, would be. The Keep also could use having an edited ground texture that also outlines it's shape like og one does for townhall)

Aside of that is all just magnifiscent, i would just touch up the textures to keep more of highlights and drawn shadows in sokme places as some bits of detail kind of meld together like the stained glass circular window surround. It was more pronounced with highlights and shadows and stood out more.
Castle wall around and foundation itself look magnifiscent and better than original where it had that weird situatuation with ground texture poking under the walls for whatever reason. Maybe wall texture could be ever so slightly brighter as og ones are pretty much white. It doesnt have to be as white nor like WoW castle walls, but similar shade to which walls and Keep are in side of it now.

 

[LongbowMan]

You shouldnt worry about it too much, tho i believe that your keep model is just ever so slightly wider than original one and it could make it more severe. Solution could be just creating some clever merge of the wall and keep section with exit onto the wall from it. so it looks less bothersome to you, plus backside of the building you could change a tiny bit as its not normally seen and its just a repeat of the textrure from the front. It could be modified to something else while sorting out the overlapping or 'explain it' as by design.

My only bit of feedback would be tto have perhaps a bit more subtle stepping on the rooftiles and more of hte wooden beam visible especially on the Keep upgrade because old one had it quite substantially vibible and in yours the the side finish tiles cover most of it making it looks quite small as a detail.(perhaps making the sides of those tils shorter/smaller would be enough, would be. The Keep also could use having an edited ground texture that also outlines it's shape like og one does for townhall)

Aside of that is all just magnifiscent, i would just touch up the textures to keep more of highlights and drawn shadows in sokme places as some bits of detail kind of meld together like the stained glass circular window surround. It was more pronounced with highlights and shadows and stood out more.
Castle wall around and foundation itself look magnifiscent and better than original where it had that weird situatuation with ground texture poking under the walls for whatever reason. Maybe wall texture could be ever so slightly brighter as og ones are pretty much white. It doesnt have to be as white nor like WoW castle walls, but similar shade to which walls and Keep are in side of it now.

Thanks for the feedback! I think I'll mostly focus on finishing Birth and Death animations for now, but I will look into the stained glass issue though, as the difference is quite noticeable to me, too. Surely there are other things to perfect but I want to finish this before I exhausting myself too much

 

[LongbowMan]

It's been a while, needed a little break. A lot of work has been done in the past few days: tweak some colors, converted tier 3, added rigging and geoset visibility. Now it's time for proper Birth animations.
P.S. Don't mind the desaturated window - my gif converter ate the color somehow...
P.P.S. Yes, work animation is missing a glowing tower window, I'll fix that later.

 

[Ardenaso]

It's beautiful ! Looking forward for your other works

 

[Kacpa2]

Magnificent
i still wish some elements were abit more visible(wooden beams under the roof on keep/castle) and textures preserved atleast some of the painted-in shadows and highligths as it is part of the style of original game's texture work. Other than that its perfect.

 

[LongbowMan]

I actually retouched the textures quite a bit, added some missing highlights and made deeper shadows, even added some noise to make it feel a bit less clean/highres. Compromises had to be made of course - texture parts are being reused all over the place so one has to be moderate when adding baked lighting. On the bright side, it's partly compensated but sharper shadows on the HD version.

 

[RedRockRun]

What do you think? Do you think Reforged graphics would be better accepted with this art direction?

I think it looks a hell of a lot better than the mobile game-looking RF visuals. You're doing God's work.

 

[LongbowMan]

I've recorded a small video with all Birth and Work animations, if anyone's interested: Big Construction
P.S. I could really use an opinion on wether voice-overs for such videos are a good thing...

 

[RedRockRun]

I've recorded a small video with all Birth and Work animations, if anyone's interested: Big Construction
P.S. I could really use an opinion on wether voice-overs for such videos are a good thing...

I like hearing your thoughts.

 

[Kacpa2]

I think it looks a hell of a lot better than the mobile game-looking RF visuals. You're doing God's work.

Yeah, it looks like a yee-yee-ass Raid of Shadowlegends knock-off.

 

[Ardenaso]

do sorceress next

 

[YourArthas]

do sorceress next

He is making buildings lol. WAA sorceress still holds up though

 

[LongbowMan]

Damn, this Death animation sucked the life out of me. I didn't want to stray too far and make a whole new animation but the OG Death looked plain awful even by classic standarts, so I had to pursue some kind of compromise. I think I'll just leave it like this for now and come back later to make a decent Decay rubble...