Castle Fight 1.30

[Moderator]

13:43, 30th Mar 2014
Orcnet: Map approved and set as recommended.

 

[taavidude]

can i play it with bots too?

 

[Legal_Ease]

This sounds really fun but you need to improve your description. See Map Submission Rules. You can make one from scratch using BBcode key or you can try a Map Discription Templates. Also, screenshots are practically a must. See http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/tutorial-submission-283/how-add-screenshot-your-map-description-241054/#post2416435 if you don't know how. If you do not make a description the map will be REJECTED.

Hey now, that looks much better! Nice work!

 

[dd_mn]

Sure, AI can play at medium level.
I'll add the description asap.

 

[dd_mn]

Gex had abandoned CF development a long ago. This map was recreated by Elf_Stratigo although map concept and most races are the same as in Gex's original. Later development of this version was stopped and author had passed source. Imo differences between this map and Gex's version are significant enough (but it's more evident to those who play CF often)

 

[Metalbear]

1) Did the creator of glorious castle fight give this to you, or was it an open souce?
2) This may be rejected since there may not be enough changes from the original map.

WUUUUT?!
Dud StoPCampinGn00b, you should TRY the map before you even comment it! Its much more improved and balanced then what gex left over to rot!
I am one of the CF maniac fans who support this map!

 

[Binsu]

Please calm down, SCN is just stating some opinions there, seriously calm down.

 

[Rheiko]

looks interesting and fun
but from the screenshot, i guess your terrain still need some work.. too flat

Edit: Maybe i'm wrong, i just look at the road and the castle area xD

 

[dd_mn]

looks interesting and fun
but from the screenshot, i guess your terrain still need some work.. too flat

Yes terrain isn't beautiful and I hope that someone good at terraining will improve it (although 99% of game time player looks at lane and castle area)

 

[hangphyr]

Last updated today.. what is changed?

 

[dd_mn]

-Stout shaman - upgrade cost: 100->125, improved Bloodlust: +45% dmg, +5 armor.
-Gnoll-Ambusher - becomes invisible if acquired enemy (3s invisibility max), its attack from invisible state deals 200 dmg, 15s cooldown.
-Gates mechanics redesigned a bit.
-2 Blast staffs stack into Double Blast staff, 2 Double staffs stack into Quad Blast staff.
-A little redesigned terrain - path between Castles is shorter now (experimental)
-RS renamed to Devastating Strike and can be used anywhere (experimental).
-Slight balance changes
Post bug reports\ideas\suggestions if you have any.

 

[hangphyr]

-Not sure if I like the unlimited range rescue strike
-I think unlimited range blink is best workers, reduces clicks
-Shorter castle path is good, I never liked the swamp in the middle
-More unit upgrade paths would be nice, especially with the goal of at least 1 ultimate unit per side.
-For example, a large demon ultimate for the chaos side (demon summon ability? mass curse? spawn in a temporary gate that spawns in temporary imps?)
-I liked the troll trapper ultimate in the war3.eu version
-Give northern faction an ultimate frost dragon maybe? Maybe with a special ability to cover a section of ground with frost that lasts a short period of time (damage, slow, freeze chance? maybe devour ability also?)
-I'm not sure where towers can fit in right now.. the blast staff might be a better option for damage, maybe the towers should be more of a blocking and distraction role? It is rough when attackers split off around the castle to kill buildings behind it, towers can help that but they're very hit or miss any round. They might need upgrade trees for this, especially relating to increasing health/armour/regen/some other sorts of special abilities (like stunning nearby enemies, slowing, cursing, etc)
-Maybe allow the power plant to slightly increase the suicide damage of gobin sappers and kamikazes
-Do goblin repair robots currently leave the base to repair mechanical units that have already left the castle? Maybe if there are no buildings to repair, they could do that.

 

[dd_mn]

I've played dozen of rounds with unlimited range rescue strike - everybody used it as usual.
Chaos has 2 ultimates...orcs, northern,desert and mechanics haven't.
Blast staff isn't best option for any race because it has no splash and its dps is lower than any tower has.
Repair bots behavior is handled by engine now...ofc they are not very useful on offense...and I've seen they did repair damaged units that left the castle area.

 

[dd_mn]

Updated:
-Heroic shrine: lumber cost: 1500->1600, chance 15%->13% (+5% for each consequent)
-Shrine of Justice: chance 20%->16% (+4% for each consequent)
-Artillery : gold cost 200->220, damage: 300+100->250+100
-Sanctum of Decay (City of Decay) : can be upgraded (8->10>12dps), each upgrade requires 1 food.
-Stasis totem: has variable cooldown: 35-45s
Rune of restoration: has 2 AoE now - 1st repairs 1.25 hp\s in 1300 AoE and 2nd repairs 2.5 in 700 AoE (like former did).

 

[sentrywiz]

I've been wanting to recreate CF for months, but couldn't find an open source map. Where did you get yours?

I'm a great CF fan. Will check it out. Especially since it can be played with AI

 

[LeonXardo66]

I'm very good in making terrain, hope you like if i modify you terrain,, i have create many map as i can do,, and its great,, I change tiles and cliff of the terrain to look more cool.

 

[dd_mn]

Former developer (Elf-Stratigo) had passed map source to me and Sunus.
I'd recreated AI because I was not satisfied with existing one and I myself play with AI against human opponents+AI.
Of course AI is far from perfect - it doesn't build towers and uses its RS not very effective sometimes.

 

[hangphyr]

Pretty rarely do they waste RS, I've found them to be surprisingly effective at it.

Probably other areas such as towers, building placement, and buying items could use more attention.

 

[dd_mn]

You mean buying and using scroll\orbs? It is more or less evident whether\when AI should buy "Drum'n'Bass" orbs and less evident for Orb of Lightning, Rune of restoration, Scroll of Stone.

 

[DemonFace]

Good points:
terrain is amazing
can play with computers
what i think is best is that you made so that these units spawn like that from buildings and they just go and attack enemy immediatly which is really cool
Bad points:
none
Suggestions:
none right now
5/5

 

[dd_mn]

Thanks but map idea isn't mine and I just continue the development.

 

[hangphyr]

Still doing anything with this map?

 

[dd_mn]

Map updated.
Desert race:
-Harpies attack type changed to pierce. Harpy-witch could be upgraded to ultimate Matriarch.
Harpy-witch steals enemy life (changed from spell-steal)
-Gnolls prefer flying targets and do additional damage to them.
-Quillboar\Razormane attack type changed to normal.
-Altar of snake changed to Altar of quicksand.
Elements race:
-Elemental of earth defense type changed to unarmored and its hp is increased.
-Generator of Mana changed to Magical distorter.
Humans:
-Heroic Shrine now doubles each 4th spawned unit of its owner.
Game statistics is saved in Replays\CFnnnnn.log
Other slight balance changes.

 

[Heinvers]

aaaa, stolen or what? anyway the terrain needs serious work! It's just too empty!
Btw the races you put are interesting.

 

[PlankingWolf]

Yes terrain isn't beautiful and I hope that someone good at terraining will improve it (although 99% of game time player looks at lane and castle area)

When I play Castle Fight, I look 85% of my time at the road, and I sometimes look at the edges of the map. Anyway, lookin' good. Can't wait to test it out.

 

[dd_mn]

Thanks, I hope you enjoy playing CF!
Map isn't stolen, just forked from 1.22a. Terrain is empty because it speeds loading up (I believe)

 

[hangphyr]

Yeah, I don't think Castle Fight is a map that would benefit a lot from more "things" in the path.

Haven't touched Warcraft 3 in months before today, but from my last playsessions over LAN with people, nobody likes the desert race ultimate. The fact that it clogs up everyones view is a bit of a nuisance.

The use of the sacred peyote is a bit iffy, people seem to build more towers with their lumber on that race.

Also, have you ever considered creating this map for SC2? The WC3 engine has a lot of limitations.

 

[dd_mn]

Yes, desert race is hard to play by and I am trying to improve this.
I am not sure SC2 is suitable for CF, Heroes of the Storm is more like CF, hope there is (will be) a world editor for HoS.

 

[hangphyr]

New update was posted? Changes?

HoS is just running on the SC2 engine, it's pretty much just a mod for it. One could probably even make HoS in the SC2 editor.

SC2 definitely lacks the massive models variety that WC3 has. Theres dozens and dozens of Castle Fight clones in SC2, especially since Blizzard made that "tug of war" gamemode category. I've played nearly all of the SC2 clones, and none of them even come remotely close to how great Castle Fight is for WC3.

 

[dd_mn]

"SC2 definitely lacks the massive models variety that WC3 has"
This is one of the major reasons why CF still is WC3-only. I know there is a WC3->SC2 resources conversion project, but its progress is slow enough. Also I'm not sure it is possible to reproduce same spells\abilities in SC2. I was thinking about porting CF to some open-RTS engine, but didn't find any suitable.

 

[bobbykiller3]

"SC2 definitely lacks the massive models variety that WC3 has"
This is one of the major reasons why CF still is WC3-only. I know there is a WC3->SC2 resources conversion project, but its progress is slow enough. Also I'm not sure it is possible to reproduce same spells\abilities in SC2. I was thinking about porting CF to some open-RTS engine, but didn't find any suitable.

are you still updating this map sir ? i really like this map ...
waiting for your next update ..

 

[dd_mn]

I am waiting for suggestions for the next update since I paused to play CF myself. There was suggestion to make wall destructable (by particular unit type or by presence of enemy units near wall). Another suggestions - ultimate shield\flying for mechanics.

 

[hangphyr]

How about the ability to purchase additional rescue strikes? 1500-2000 gold? It could help prevent that rare occurance when the game becomes a stalemate until the game crashes (it's happened before to me).

I'd still very much like to see the AI's building towers. They don't have to be really clever with it, just build 1 tower per AI per round in pre-set locations.

I'd also like to see the blink range back to unlimited.

I saw on the warcraft3.eu version that they added a training sync button. I haven't tried that, since they never gave out a download link to the newest version with it on their site. A training sync button would be pretty useful for this version.

More upgrade tiers for existing units is always appreciated. Aside from more health/damage/mana, some suggestions for new abilities off the top of my head:

-Self repair/regeneration
-A spell that constructs a temporary turret (not only mechs, but a nature unit for example could throw down a plant that spits thorns, for example)
-A spell that throws up temporary destructable walls to block/trap enemies
-A stealth unit that can sneak into the enemy base and sabotoge buildings (likely stunning production, not so much damage)
-Buff spell for friendly ranged units, increase range
-Spell that teleports a friendly damaged unit back to base.. either self or another friendly
-Spell that gives temporary flying ability to friendly unit
-Unit that can bypass the main road, sneak through the bushes on the sides to flank or sneak into base (probably useful for sneakers like assasins)
-Shield casting building that protects friendly buildings temporarily from harmful effects, or damage, or remove debuffs like freeze
-Ability that kills a friendly unit (no gold), but turns them into another unit (maybe a random chance of what its turned into, from a short list.. chance of something quite powerful)
-A flying harassment unit that attempts to sneak into the enemy base, damage buildings, then possibly flee
-Potion throwing unit that has various buffs/debuffs/unique spell effects (perhaps random with every casting)


But what sort of suggestions are you looking for adding? New content is generally fairly easy to come up with I think, balance is harder.

More upgrade tiers and more races is something I'm sure most players would find interesting.

 

[bobbykiller3]

I am waiting for suggestions for the next update since I paused to play CF myself. There was suggestion to make wall destructable (by particular unit type or by presence of enemy units near wall). Another suggestions - ultimate shield\flying for mechanics.

balance your dessert race and maybe you can add another race

 

[dd_mn]

To hangphyr:
-additional rescue strikes? : not a problem.
-AI's building tower : possible but requires more time to add such behaviour.
-unlimited range blink : easy.
I am one of "warcraft3.eu version" developers. I've disabled sync in current version due to decreased stability.

"More upgrade tiers and more races is something I'm sure most players would find interesting." - sure but it was hard to invent Desert and this race still is not good enough (.

To bobbykiller3: any balance suggestions?

P.S. Map updated, buyable RS(1500), blink range is increased.

 

[bobbykiller3]

To hangphyr:
-additional rescue strikes? : not a problem.
-AI's building tower : possible but requires more time to add such behaviour.
-unlimited range blink : easy.
I am one of "warcraft3.eu version" developers. I've disabled sync in current version due to decreased stability.

"More upgrade tiers and more races is something I'm sure most players would find interesting." - sure but it was hard to invent Desert and this race still is not good enough (.

To bobbykiller3: any balance suggestions?

P.S. Map updated, buyable RS(1500), blink range is increased.

hmmm i'm not expert bout balancing units/ even map.
but i would like to see

quilboar have legendary units instead harpy , cost : 400 wood : 350 :
cast poison split [armor -4 AS -10 MS-20/stack , have 5 stacks ]
bash attack [20% chance bashing enemy 1-2 second , damage 150-250]
return damage [150% for melee units , 75% for range]
cleaving attack added
armor : divine

adding sandkin upgrade [monstrous sandkin] cost : 200 :
sand storm : 500 AOE , chance miss 75% , -30 AS for 5 second
critical chance : 30% chance 2x damage
bird beak : when he kills enemy units , gain 5% enemy max health to him but decreased his armor by 2

adding salamander upgrade [fire salamander] cost : 185 :
fire armor aura : ignite all enemies around him : 30 damage/second
fire breath : 100 damage and give initial damage 20 damage/second , last 5 second
splash damage

 

[hangphyr]

My main issues with the desert race has been how their ultimate building clutters everyones view with sand and fog, and I'm not sure if the peyote is great.

Like I've mentioned, in my LAN games, when someone ends up with desert race they spend all their lumber on towers.

Perhaps give peyote a small buff increase, or give it an upgrade tier with a better buff?

The core of desert race always seemed ogres and harpies, always seemed like their best two units to me. Harpies are good overall, and ogres are great tanks with absurd damage to buildings. One berserker upgraded ogre smashes through towers in a few seconds.

Perhaps change the ogre damage type to normal instead of siege when he berserks? I wouldn't know how feasible this is, scripting-wise.

 

[dd_mn]

Thanks for feedback!
Peyote really isn't great but it is cheap...maybe I should change it but I have no idea how.
I can give to ogre normal attack type (against buildings only) ...or slow down its attack speed against buildings.
I'll try to fix sandstorm animation, upgrade of sandkin is a good idea too.

 

[hangphyr]

Normal damage type against buildings would work, but then desert still needs a siege type unit. I can't remember if ogres were their only siege units.

Perhaps give a special ability on a cooldown that is good against buildings to the upgraded sandkin?

On another note, how about upgrade tiers for towers? Even just a health and armour boost, without a damage boost, might be fine.

 

[dd_mn]

Simpler solution is to slow down attack speed against buildings a little.
I changed sandstorm effect a bit and made upgrade of sandkin:
-sandkin(550hp, 6armor, 37 magic dps, sandwhirl, 235 gold) -> monstrous sandkin (1000hp, 8armor, 65 magic dps, sandwhirl, critical, sandshield(greatly slows nearby enemies), 225 gold)

 

[bobbykiller3]

Simpler solution is to slow down attack speed against buildings a little.
I changed sandstorm effect a bit and made upgrade of sandkin:
-sandkin(550hp, 6armor, 37 magic dps, sandwhirl, 235 gold) -> monstrous sandkin (1000hp, 8armor, 65 magic dps, sandwhirl, critical, sandshield(greatly slows nearby enemies), 225 gold)

finally ... there is an update to sandkin
btw , when u want to release it sir ?
and ..... can u add a new race ... don't have some ideas yet but u can try golem races :rofl:

 

[hangphyr]

Perhaps script the AI's to purchase items? I think it'd make the games a lot more dynamic.

The devastating strike could be a bit more expensive I think, maybe 1750. Also, there is a typo in its tooltip.

How about a third upgrade tier for human footmen? Ultimate unit based around taking lots of damage, not so much dealing it.

Maybe give a corpse eating ability to some undead unit, for health regain? Could be added in another upgrade tier.

 

[dd_mn]

Thanks for response and suggestions!
I didn't test last changes, if someone wish to test - I'll post untested version.
Unfortunately to add new race is a really hard work - to create new unique unit concepts, to find models for them and for producing buildings, to set hundreds of necessary properties and at last to start test\balancing.
AI could buy items but stuff\scroll\OoL would require additional scripting\testing for each item. What item(s) AI should use at first? Maybe stuff? Or OoL?
I'll check DS item, Defender ultimate may be nice, 80-90% pierce\magic reflection, slow attack speed, taunt. I can add "eat corpse" to any zombie but it could prevent skeleton spawning )

 

[Orcnet]

Map approved.

 

[bobbykiller3]

Thanks for response and suggestions!
I didn't test last changes, if someone wish to test - I'll post untested version.
Unfortunately to add new race is a really hard work - to create new unique unit concepts, to find models for them and for producing buildings, to set hundreds of necessary properties and at last to start test\balancing.
AI could buy items but stuff\scroll\OoL would require additional scripting\testing for each item. What item(s) AI should use at first? Maybe stuff? Or OoL?
I'll check DS item, Defender ultimate may be nice, 80-90% pierce\magic reflection, slow attack speed, taunt. I can add "eat corpse" to any zombie but it could prevent skeleton spawning )

thanks for the updates sir ...

edit : downloaded the map and didn't see any updated features in there...
what's exactly the update sir ?

 

[dd_mn]

Thanks for approvement.
What's new in recent version:
-DS item price changed to 1750
-sandkin changed (as described above)
-sandstorm\sandcloud effect changed.

Thinking about ultimate Defender or Paladin(humans), Flying Fortress(mechanics), (?) (orcs)

 

[hangphyr]

As for AI buying units, I think they should purchase the two buffers first, if nobody has purchased it on the team yet. They're both quite powerful, and always useful.

Perhaps the healing stone could be purchased if significant damage is being done to buildings? Harder to script that, however.

The cheese could be purchased late game, but would require work to tell them when to save for it, and what ultimates to build extra of (no duplicates of non-stacking buildings).

The damage dealing buyables are significantly more situational. My first impression would just be a random change of AI purchasing one early game, could partially make up for their lack of tower construction.

I like the idea of a flying fortress for the mechanics, since no flying ultimates exist. Perhaps it drone launching for a special ability?

A human ultimate footman would be easier to make, however. WC3 has plenty of default models that could work for it, and the abilities you proposed are easy to add.

And yeah, eating corpses would be a problem for undead..

 

[dd_mn]

I can make AI build towers but it would probably be ineffective. In Gex's version AI built tower(s) if enemies were near castle long enough. I didn't create same logic because AI isn't supposed to play as good as human.
One of the concepts is Flying Fortress: high HP, normal armor, same AA ability as AA tank has (maybe 2-3x) and bombard ground ability(slow cooldown, great area), another is Carrier of helicopters and another is Flying Factory (spawns mech's units and repair units)
I am not sure there is an appropriate model for ultimate defender. I see its role as pure tank (high durability, protects units behind, medium damage)

 

[ravewarheit]

I love Castle Fight and this map brings back some fond memories of WC3 crashes when I play with my friends to a whopping stalemate.

Here are some issues I've found, along with some suggestions:

• -xr and -ndb do not work
  
  Elemental
• Water and Fire buildings have the same hotkey (R).
• Legendary building should upgrade from Lightning building. Fire building is Chaos/Medium, while the legendary unit is Magic/Unarmored, making it a bit awkward. Lightning is Magic/Heavy, so the legendary unit can be adjusted to the Heavy armor (just reduce it a bit).
  OR just make the legendary unit Chaos/Medium.
• Lightning building has a wrong tooltip. Almost everything about it is wrong.
• Does the Linker work? It doesn't have any visible skill, and units don't get any visible buff icon. If it does work, please make it obvious.
• Magical Distorter does not have any mana. It cannot cast its skill. Fix this ASAP.
  
  Desert
• All unit building hotkeys do not work. Seriously, they're all (F) and none actually work. The two non-unit buildings both have (D) hotkey, only the cactus works.
• Legendary Harpy is too powerful. It spams the stones skill too often.
• Sandkin is also too powerful with its skill. Maybe reduce the miss chance to 25%.
• Temple of Storms tooltip says duration is 8.5, cooldown 40s. The Sandstorm tooltip says duration 6.5, cooldown 36s.

The list is incomplete. Maybe I'll post more later.