Blademasters.

[HorizonTal]

I have a big problem. I play with Undeads, and I just can't defat blademasters. Yesterday in a game I had 5 gold mines (yes, 5) and the enemy had only one, I had two heroes and he only had a blademaster. He won. And very very easily. Now just look at this replay, it's about a game I played today. I was so sure to win, I started making fun of the enemy (I know, it's something I shouldn't do, I hate when they do it against me) and then he won. Look at his tactic. No, better, look at how he doesn't have a strategy at all, he just plays with 3 heroes and some support units (he made those only for fun, I'm sure, they weren't necessary). How could I kill him, just tell me! what units should I have done? I think killing a blademaster is just not possible, with the poor undeads.

Please help me. I'm desperate
Look at that damn replay and give me a solution, please.

 

[SantaBla]

But do you actually think it's easy to kill a death knight?

 

[HorizonTal]

yep. People always think: "Uuh look! a Death Knight! Let's focus fire on him, so that he can't heal other heroes and units" and they don't even touch your units until he's dead. And without death pact he really dies quickly!
(I met two people on B.net speaking about the Death Knight and they were saying he was umbalanced and too powerful, then perhaps it's only me who can't make them live long)

 

[The_wand_mirror]

I play undead also, i always used to lose from my friend. He always used Paladin + Footman + Rifleman. He had no casters at all lol =p

Now i use, Dreadlord + Vampiric Aura + Ghouls (Tier1), just train more ghouls and go to Tier 3. Then i build abo's perhaps another hero and i get necromancers + meatwagons = pwnage....

Only i got pwned once by a guy that used many priests and sorceress' =/

I don't really see the use of the deathknight as a primary hero, he has only heal... his aura is for fighting and not for surviving.. the dreadlord on the otherhand has a good aura which makes you're troops (if you have like 7 ghouls in the begin) almost invincible... especially versus creeps... i would only do the deathknight as a secondary hero.

ABOUT THE REPLAY:

Nice comment 'My blademaster is a supermega ninja!' XD

He clearly is a tech rusher that trains one hero to save resources to upgrade his hall and creeps alone with his hero and tries to annoy you and slow you down by creep jacking and killing your hero. He build towers in his camp to prevent you from totally smashing it... because he had no units in the begin.

Further.. it seems that is not a full tech rushers lol, he doesn't make any units? So... well, he is a hero rusher? i think he makes good heroes and launches small attacks to delay your creeping. I think if you had attacked his camp all the time and killed his heroes he had no chance...

Further it seems that he has very annoying and messy tactics... if you can call it that way, i've not idea what he is doing =p

But man, he has annoying tactics... still you may could've beaten him. For instance, the thing with the tower that he build there and was repairing with peons... instead of attacking the tower youd better just rush to the peons to kill them. And that shade would've been better placed on his blademaster so you would've known where he was all the time and then you could also annoy him by killing the whole crapload of peons he had all the time. You didn't kill any peons!?

 

[HorizonTal]

You didn't kill any peons!?

I was afraid to follow them, something could happen to my mine, or to my troops without the protection of towers... Something green, with a big katana and a white beard...

So I didn't press enough... I guess you're right... But, what the hell, it's impossible orcs can win like that... If I tried that with undeads, with any heroes, I would be crushed like a banana under a panda bear... I know, every race has its own tactics, but why did Blizzard made possible victory for people who play Warcraft like Dota, using only heroes? I was playing a strategy game, he was playing a RPG...

 

[The_wand_mirror]

I guess if you would've attacked the peons you would've slowed him down good. Then just retreaded and gathered some armies and attacked his peons again and again and eventually his camp. And i hope you know that you always gotta keep training units while fighting eh =p Sure you do =p

And uhm, it seemed like in some situations where he did some annoying attacks here and there you kind off panicked and didn't really know which unit to attack or where to send you're units. So i think you've also gotta consider that your enemy can have strange tactics, or annoys the hell out of you.

Few examples

He - Walks with blademaster into your camp and scouts around a bit.
You - You noticed this, and you rushed all your troops to your goldmine also dragging your acolytes and lumbering ghouls with you.

So you panicked right? Because he didn't do anything. After that he got into wind walk and creep jacked you.

He - Attacks your ziggurats with heroes.
You - You think 'Oh no my base!'
He - Retreats because he suspects you're coming

I don't remember what you're troops were doing but i think that was just a distraciton, offcourse i don't think it was planned and if it was then that guy it a damn good player =p

He - Builds a tower and lets it attack your ziggurat and repairs it with peons
You - Repair your ziggurat and get some nerubians to help destroying the tower
He - T3h bl4demaster t0 teh r3scu3!!!!!111
You - You start rushing the tower and AFTER THAT you kill the peons

I dunno, but it seemed obvious to me that you should've attacked the peons first. At least i would've done that.

It all seem small things, but he just did that to annoy you and drag you there so he could damage your troops. You were kind off careless and maybe to agressive and just fell right for these little traps. If it weren't traps then pardon me but i think 2/3 of these were planned. He's just damn smart =p

Man what a hell of a reply. Im going to sleep now. ZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZz

 

[HorizonTal]

He's just damn smart =p

You have been very gentle not adding "Or you're damn dumb"
Anyway it's true, I always panick, especially against those... THINGS

 

[Direfury]

Dude:
Death Knight with Animate Dead, Cloak of Shadows, sacrificial skull, greater healing pot, invulerability pot and ankh of reincarnation (if possible)
2 Meat Wagons, Exhume Corpses
4 Necromancers, fully trained
10 Ghouls with Ghoul Frenzy
3 Aboms with Cannibalize

Aboms rush the Blademaster and his mirror images
Meat Wagons provide cover fire & reinforcements (corpses)
Necromancers Cripple, force ghouls & aboms into a frenzy and raise dead to fight the Blademaster
Death Knight raises corpses dropped by wagons and casts 'death coil' on the Blademaster.

Train more Necromancers to join your forces once the Blademaster dies and pretty much butt-rush his base with aboms and meat wagons on towers, ghouls on peons and necromancers providing cover fire again.

The Death Knight should hold back during the assault and wait for the Blademaster with atleast 4 meat wagons, two Crippling Necromancers and one abomination to tank for you.

During the assault, keep training ghouls (lots), meatwagons (half number of ghouls) and frost wyrms (with all upgrades, only 2 per wave) and send them all towards his base.

 

[punwisp]

whosyourdaddy

solved

 

[Direfury]

Lol, you need to cheat? Ew.

 

[Arvedui]

And if you're on ladder it doesn't work. So actually knowing tactics instead of god-moding your way through is usually better.

 

[punwisp]

It was a joke... lol
Actually before he kills you type
allyourbasearebelongtous

 

[Direfury]

Cheats won't work. Duh.

 

[HorizonTal]

he was joking.
Then The old BM would easily kill necromancers, even before you notice he's near you. I thaught too melee was good, so I actually made abominations. Well, he slaughtered them like sheep. Your solution requires a lot of micro, and it doesn't work for sure. What if that bastard starts SPINNING Among your poor old necromancers, who studied thousands of years and finally can show their abilities.. and they are so happy... Poor them...

 

[Direfury]

...

Dreadlord uses sleep on BM once his Bladestorm wears out
Abominations and all melee units surround the BM
Rangers stay far away (including meat wagons) and attack from their current spot
Wake up the BM with Carrion Swarm & Death Knight's Death Coil
Use Inferno on the BM quickly then drop all corpses from Meat Wagons, raise with Death Knight

Blademasters are weak and easy targets.

 

[The_wand_mirror]

Dude:
Death Knight with Animate Dead, Cloak of Shadows, sacrificial skull, greater healing pot, invulerability pot and ankh of reincarnation (if possible)
2 Meat Wagons, Exhume Corpses
4 Necromancers, fully trained
10 Ghouls with Ghoul Frenzy
3 Aboms with Cannibalize

Aboms rush the Blademaster and his mirror images
Meat Wagons provide cover fire & reinforcements (corpses)
Necromancers Cripple, force ghouls & aboms into a frenzy and raise dead to fight the Blademaster
Death Knight raises corpses dropped by wagons and casts 'death coil' on the Blademaster.

Train more Necromancers to join your forces once the Blademaster dies and pretty much butt-rush his base with aboms and meat wagons on towers, ghouls on peons and necromancers providing cover fire again.

The Death Knight should hold back during the assault and wait for the Blademaster with atleast 4 meat wagons, two Crippling Necromancers and one abomination to tank for you.

During the assault, keep training ghouls (lots), meatwagons (half number of ghouls) and frost wyrms (with all upgrades, only 2 per wave) and send them all towards his base.

Animate Dead = You learn it at level 6. Takes a long time to get there?
Cloack of Shadows = Be lucky it drops?????
Sacrifical Skull = Yeah ok, you can buy that.
Greater Healing Potion = Requires greater tech -.-
Invulnerability Potion = Also needs higher tech? Or can you buy it?
Ahkn Of Reincarnation = Any hero is good with that doh

2 Meat Wagons, Exhume Corpses = Upgrade needs time and money
4 Necromancers, fully trained = Upgrade needs time and money
10 Ghouls with Ghoul Frenzy = Upgrade needs time and money
3 Aboms with Cannibalize = Upgrade needs time and money

So here you go lol. You're tactic is not possible unless you tech-rush to tier 3.

 

[HorizonTal]

...

Dreadlord uses sleep on BM once his Bladestorm wears out
Abominations and all melee units surround the BM
Rangers stay far away (including meat wagons) and attack from their current spot
Wake up the BM with Carrion Swarm & Death Knight's Death Coil
Use Inferno on the BM quickly then drop all corpses from Meat Wagons, raise with Death Knight

Blademasters are weak and easy targets.

"It's Working! It's working! It's working!"
>WIND WALK<
"AAAAAGH!"

Thanks anyway, you made me understand that the dreadlord is the guy who can do it, with sleep and inferno.

 

[Direfury]

Just get that Dust of Apperance for both of your heroes and block him off at both sides, make sure both of the heroes are close enough to the blademaster to use the dust as soon as he uses Windwalk
OR
Gems of Trueseeing

If you want to take the Blademaster quick, send him lots of distractions, have a Shade follow him at all times if you can get it quick enough. Use two Abominations and the Dreadlord to keep the BM busy while you get everything else you need for your Death Knight.

If hes playing an RPG while you're playing a strategy game, or whatever, get the Lich and Cryptlord. Give them both Gems or Dust of Appearance, aswell as mana potions, sacrificial skulls and a rod of necromancy.
Bring in two meat wagons, the Lich and Cryptlord and six Ghouls. send two ghouls after him at a time, make sure they run when he uses Bladestorm and then wait it out. Once the spell wears out, Impale him, drop all corpses from the meat wagons and cast Carrion Beetle & use your Rods of Necromancy. While your Cryptlord is busy doing that, have your Lich cast Frost Nova on the BM and Frost Armor on the beetles, then have the Cryptlord recast Impale and then repeat the steps as many times as you need.

 

[Masiah]

I'm not into melee, but I think you main error mas not making more heroes. You really should have got the Dreadlord and maybe a neutral hero.

 

[Direfury]

I made a map just for this situation. The secret is in the smart use of heroes and banshees.

Get:
Death Knight
Dreadlord
2 Meat Wagons
3 Abominations
5 Ghouls (banking purposes)
3 Necromancers
Enough banshees to acquire targets (non-hero) below
Scepter(s) of Mastery from bases
soul gem from base, ankh of reincarnation from the Ogre Stronghold
Dark Ranger at lv6
Charm/Possess Sludge monsters & evil treants
Charm/Possess Gnoll Warden
Charm/Possess Bandit Mages

Remember, there are lots of places with secrets, try to advance quickly at first and then lead a strike with your current hero at the two Orc bases, dealing large amounts of damage to their town hall and preventing builders from getting an altar up. Once you have everything you need, retreat and allow them to run their course.

 

[HorizonTal]

I'm not into melee, but I think you main error mas not making more heroes. You really should have got the Dreadlord and maybe a neutral hero.

Heroes cost gold and I was always making units... you are right I should have saved some money

Yours is a nice melee map, revellion, but it doesn't recreate the situation because there's not a blademaster. Or perhaps you have posted it because you want to attack me with a blademaster in that map in a 1v1 to train me?
RRRAH! COS I'M READEH! BRING IT OOON!

 

[Direfury]

Just set both teams to "Easy" and "Normal" as Orcs. There's a 1/4 chance that a team will have a blademaster and with the Easy team camping at their first base, you can simulate the situation you had earlier while learning how to repel assaults from another side.

 

[HorizonTal]

Computer can't use blademasters. It can't harass. It can't attack only with heroes, it can't windwalk in your city and cast "bladestorm" between the mine and the main, destroying the mine and damaging the main, it can't buy items from goblin merchants, it can't steal your items when you're about to pick them up, and you deserve it, you killed an Ogre Lord, goddamnit, but that fucking bastard will get your Ankh before you thanks to "Windwalk".
No, I need to practise against humans (those kinds of humanoids who use blademasters)
because the computer still plays a strategy game. I want to ruin the GDR of some freaking German kids who think blademaster is "Cool" because he looks like a freaking character of a freaking anime!

 

[Masiah]

There you go again... And I've changed my avatar, so don't go mad on me!

 

[HorizonTal]

Lol if you don't play with blademasters you have nothing to fear, my young friend. Else I would just hate you to death

 

[Direfury]

Fine i'll make you an arena map to fight various types of Blademasters. Maybe even some types of BM from Altered Melee maps.

 

[HorizonTal]

No, thanks, as I said before I want to hear a human shriek when I kill a blademaster.
If I kill a blademaster.
Have I ever done such thing?

 

[Direfury]

Then try this, use banshees or the Dark Ranger and possess a Peon, get your own Blademaster along with your Death Knight and Dark Ranger/Dreadlord.

 

[HorizonTal]

I did it! It really pwns! That idiot couldn't understand what happened! "You map hacker! You map hacker!" And I was cutting his peons like potatoes! Har Har Har! Good old times!
Though it's hard to make banshees live enough to possess something, with one of Those around...

P.S.
Today I tried using the Dreadlord, it's perfect for defense, with sleep and the revealing powder! I'll no longer use that fatty scarab! Batman is the perfect nemesis for Zorro! Thanks for your hint!

 

[Masiah]

Lol if you don't play with blademasters you have nothing to fear, my young friend. Else I would just hate you to death

You've quit hating anime? I think that game has improved you as a person :O

 

[Direfury]

Horizon, i'm going to edit my map and give you the replay.

This is going to recreate the exact situation I was in when testing it, to some extent.

 

[The_wand_mirror]

Omg thx to the patch i can't watch my replays -.-

 

[Darkwing]

Man summon a Crypt Lord, train about 7 ghouls like The_wand_mirror, select Carrion Beetles ability and rush him with all you have even Acolytes leave just one to mine gold, buy a Sacrifical Skull from Tomb of Relics and kick his ass. Summon blight upon his base and start summoning ziggurats and upgrade them to Nerubian Towers so that even when his Blademaster gets out of the base screaming and crying like a little girl he has no where to run. BWAHAHAHAHA! And then when u destroy all of his building destroy his Hall with Acolytes just for fun. He will explode. The Blademaster will only step into the windwalk and watch how you butcher and eradicate and obliterate and destroy his base. He he he...

 

[HorizonTal]

That's ivol, mate. I like it.
Never tried a tower rush with the undead before.

 

[Direfury]

That won't work, if I understood right. I thought this site only allowed ENGLISH.

Horizon, just try to twist his 'strategy' and expand quickly, build lots of ziggurats, upgrade them to frost towers and spirit towers equally and when you make some progress, try and get a Halls of the Dead or Black Citadel at a spot and then lead the blademaster into your trap. Make sure you have lots of burrowed crypt fiends inbetween your trap and any spots the blademaster could run from.

Oh and about that replay, I can't seem to find it. I can tell you about what happened though.
I rigged the map so that once I destroyed both bases (blue and teal) and repelled all of the blue & teal team assaults, another Blademaster would attack us while we went after the Blue team Blademaster. I rushed the Blademaster with my own, which I got from possessing a teal peon. My Death Knight and Dreadlord, aswell as all of the GOOD characters in the map (possessed Undead Marksman, Sludge monsters, Gnoll Warden, Ghost, evil Treants) all rushed the Blademaster and did quite well, he pulled a Bladestorm so I simply let some meat wagons attack him, sending Skeleton Warriors in to distract him.
His Bladestorm wore out and he used Mirror Image and attacked, we tore through his mirror images with a Wand of Negation I found, then used all of the items I hid in the map to take him down. He was killed by a sleep, carrion swarm & death coil combo by my Death Knight & Dreadlord and thats when the other Blademaster arrived.
He tore through most of my possessed characters and then my necromancers, pulled a Bladestorm and killed my Dreadlord. The first Blademaster had revived by then and attacked, a quick kill for my meat wagons. My Blademaster used Bladestorm and circled the other two, then used mirror image and wind walk to take out the first Blademaster, then it was an easy kill with Death Coil.

And that is how you take down two blademasters.

BTW:I made them both extremely tough too, by giving them:
Ankh of Reincarnation
Kelen's Dagger of Escape
Spell Book
Orb of Slow
Inferno Stone
Scroll of Healing

 

[Darkwing]

Wow I made a gramar mistake. WOW! I meant to write slaughter, not buthcer but what u gonna do??? lol Man Just rush him with Crypt Lord, no more comments.

 

[Masiah]

I believe you have fallen into the forbidden art of necroposting...

 

[Darkfang]

in first the blademaster are a hero that is based in fisicall battle so summon an Dark ranger, Cryp lord or Pit lord and other hero i usually use the lich he cAN use D. RItual in dark minions or a death knight for death pact on carrion bettles and skeletons....first damage his hero ANd reduce his abilities whit howl of terror or stun him then when he are damaged silence him so he cant use wind walk and then finish him..remember the best defense is aa good offense..also helps that your enemies cant cast spells and only deals the 50% of it damage ^^.

 

[Direfury]

There ARE Item-specialists. They bring in troops to fight and troops to drop items or give items directly to him so he can heal/enhance his character. These types save their abilities until they can use them.