• Listen to a special audio message from Bill Roper to the Hive Workshop community (Bill is a former Vice President of Blizzard Entertainment, Producer, Designer, Musician, Voice Actor) 🔗Click here to hear his message!
  • Read Evilhog's interview with Gregory Alper, the original composer of the music for WarCraft: Orcs & Humans 🔗Click here to read the full interview.

Bill Gates: "I have no use for money"

Status
Not open for further replies.
Level 14
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
1,547
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...have-no-use-for-money.-This-is-Gods-work.html

“I’m certainly well taken care of in terms of food and clothes,” he says, redundantly. “Money has no utility to me beyond a certain point. Its utility is entirely in building an organisation and getting the resources out to the poorest in the world.”

Gates explains: “The vast majority of the wealth, over 95 per cent, goes to the foundation, which will spend all that money within 20 years after neither of us are around any more.”

If only other unbelievably rich followed his example
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbes_list_of_billionaires#2012_Top_10
 
Level 35
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
4,037
Irrelevant. Charity always has been a good method to gain social acknowledgment with which you can justify A) being bloody rich B) selling a crap product. Mr. Gates has always been criticized for accumulating too much wealth for no reason, with investing into charity, these critics are silenced and his company can carry on with being acknowledged for social responsibility.

It doesn't matter what you achieve with charitable contributions, what matters is that you still have 99% of your income on your personal bank account. With good media campaign (and achievements, of course) however, you can tune up that 1% to look like more, with which everyone will go "awww, he's such a nice person, using all his money for good deeds". That will also make your product sell better, since people won't only avoid turning away with disgust, they will feel involved with your charitable activities.

As I said, just marketing.
 
Level 14
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
1,547
Yeah? Tell me, what products does Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation sell?

Did you even read anything?

“The vast majority of the wealth, over 95 per cent, goes to the foundation, which will spend all that money within 20 years after neither of us are around any more.”

I think you lack understanding here.
 
Level 35
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
4,037
My second paragraph was pointing at companies using charity in general, not Gates in particular. It was meant to illustrate a point, not to refer to this specific case.

Also, I was not talking about the products of the foundation either, I was referring to the fact that Bill Gates still acts as an important Microsoft stakeholder; his deeds will always be correlated to the company, which obviously doesn't give away 95% of its revenue to charity.
 
Level 14
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
1,547
My second paragraph was pointing at companies using charity in general, not Gates in particular. It was meant to illustrate a point, not to refer to this specific case.

Also, I was not talking about the products of the foundation either, I was referring to the fact that Bill Gates still acts as an important Microsoft stakeholder; his deeds will always be correlated to the company, which obviously doesn't give away 95% of its revenue to charity.

And what on earth does Gates' personal deeds have to do with his position with Microsoft? Even if his charity did increase Microsoft's reputation, which I doubt, it still wouldn't matter at all since Gates isn't actively promoting MS via his foundation.
 
Level 14
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
1,547
No need to do so, Microsoft is an established brand, everyone also knows the company's relation to Gates. As I said:



Doing the opposite would be like evaluating nazism without Hitler.

Do you think that someone is going to see this and think "Oh, Microsoft is such a good company" or go buy their products? And even if they did, why would it matter?
 

Dr Super Good

Spell Reviewer
Level 64
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
27,255
Why are people making fun of gates...

There were, are and will be far worse people with similar, if not more, money.

What about..
Carlos Slim? Mexican tycoon and richest person in the world.
Larry Ellison? CEO of the evil Oracle Corporation.

In the past there was John D. Rockefeller, whos wealth was so large (comparitive to the time) that it is reconed he would have more money than all 10 of the worlds richest people combined if it was subject to inflation.
 
Level 35
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
4,037
DSG, what other people do with their wealth has nothing to do with what I said. The typical "I'm better than others just because I do this" argument is void when observing a single case, irrelevant of the context.

Also, Nuclear, if you want to show results, you have to reach deep into your pocket. The social contribution of the foundation is still marginal compared to the revenue of Microsoft.
 
Level 35
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
4,037
It's relevant because your argument of the campaign being expensive is contradicted.

Also, I answered to that link thingy already, like twice:

Microsoft is an established brand, everyone also knows the company's relation to Gates.

Doing the opposite would be like evaluating nazism without Hitler.

Bill Gates still acts as an important Microsoft stakeholder; his deeds will always be correlated to the company, which obviously doesn't give away 95% of its revenue to charity.

We're doing circles.
 
Level 14
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
1,547
I ridiculed your claim of that being a marketing trick by pointing out that giving several billions to charity is not very efficient marketing. Please elaborate this contradiction.

Let's see your original comment
This is just another marketing trick. "Support the poor, buy our product!" Typical.
Now, are you being serious? I'm not talking about mental links such as MS being an established brand associated with Gates, I'm talking about more concrete stuff that exists outside people's minds. Microsoft is a company, separate from the foundation, and is in no way obligated to donate money if its founder decides to do so. I don't understand how you fail to see this. Bill Gates is donating 95% of his wealth via his and Melinda's foundation eventually, now see that money that he makes from Microsoft is included in this, it requires no action from Microsoft, since money that comes from Microsoft's pocket to Bill's, goes to that 95%.
 

Dr Super Good

Spell Reviewer
Level 64
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
27,255
Bill Gates does not own Microsoft, he only owns part of Microsoft. He is giving his part away in the form of charity.

The social contribution of the foundation is still marginal compared to the revenue of Microsoft.
Microsoft does not make that much profit though. Revenue is simply how much income they have, not how much they have left after costs. I would like to remind you that every Xbox Microsoft sells costs more to make than the sale price.
 
Level 18
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
15,323
l.gif


But with all seriousness mr Gates is a good guy. Even if microsoft becomes "socialy irresponsible" which by your logic every other company is, MC would still be on the top of the world. When you cant reach someones achivement its easier to just shit allover it!
 
Level 3
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
58
I agree with all Zombie said about the general use of Charities. If someone thinks someone is such a good person (talking about in general not Gates), because he makes charities, oh lol. People are manipulated so much by public stunts, I am not sure if you realize how much manipulation of people's opinions is happening...

As for Gates, nothing against him, sure doing charity is fine but not a way to show how good you are, yes advertisemenet too.

But there are people with tons of money that are indeed the evil guys and do charities and things just ti justify their bad doings, then people are like 'do you see, such a good person'!

Example: George Soros but thats offtopic
 
Level 35
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
4,037
Nuclear, allow me to illustrate my point with a basic example, since you still don't seem to get it.

There's a father and a son, living in a village. The father opens a blacksmith and once he gets old, he passes it on to his son. The son continues to operate the smithy according to the expectations and principles of the father and everyone in the village stays served with their horseshoes. The father continues to be nice with the people of the village and everyone keeps up their smiley face when meeting him, since he helps the old man at the mill operate the mill, the old lady at the orchard harvest grapes, etc. Although the father is out of the smith business, he still cares about both his son and his smithy (which he set up), and people keep happily purchasing their products with knowing that they buy what they need from nice people.

The example assumes a monopoly market structure, but you should still be able to get it.
 
Level 16
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Messages
1,349
I personally don't belelive in charities. Too many corrupt charities in my opinion.

  • A lot of money is wasted. The organisation usually takes a portion of the money which is not where the money of the person intended it to go.
  • Charities usually don't utilize the money correctly in my opinion. Giving out food, medicine, etc does not work. Poor countries need education. If they had a brain to not have so many kids and overpopulate. If they had a brain to do anything, they could slowly pull themselves out of their mess. We should provide education, schools, etc. Not food, medicine.

    Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach him to fish and he'll eat for life...


I'm not saying Bill Gates uses the charity for his reputation, or his own needs and im not saying he wastes money on worthless things. I just find any charity work hard to accept because I've had a negative overview of them for too long with good reason. Pherhaps I will research Gates a bit and come to a fresh conclusion.
 
Level 14
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
1,547
@Radicool

Those are the problems with usual charities, but since they have their own foundation, I suspect they can pretty much make sure where the money goes. And from what I've heard, they indeed support more long-lasting solutions than giving out food etc.
Like this

http://www.wired.com/design/2012/08/gates-foundation-funds-better-toilet-design/

@trolman

I didn't see the target of the charity specified, so where did you get the school from? regardless, you got to start somewhere, school is one of the most basic things required for a society to develop.
 
Level 8
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
466
Well, if you have so little food that your growth is stunted due to malnutrition you might lose a few iq points along the way, you need both education and other security in a package

That said, free food isn't necessarily good for the economy
 
Level 14
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Messages
1,449
I disagree with everyone who claims Gates is in this for self image and investment.

How is 'investing' 95% of his money profitable in anyway?

Truth is, money can only get you that much enjoyment in life. When you can buy anything you want at a whim, and than destroy it at a whim and buy again at a whim, the aspect of buying and money isn't interesting anymore.

Search for J.K.Rowling. She was a bilionaire in english pounds, and donated most of the money to charity. She already did it. Do you think she did it so she can sell a new book series and have it written on the cover "From the most charitable person on Earth comes, the new adventures of Harry Potter's children".

Get real people, just because some of you are greedy doesn't mean Bill Gates is greedy.
 
Level 14
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
1,547
I disagree with everyone who claims Gates is in this for self image and investment.

How is 'investing' 95% of his money profitable in anyway?

Truth is, money can only get you that much enjoyment in life. When you can buy anything you want at a whim, and than destroy it at a whim and buy again at a whim, the aspect of buying and money isn't interesting anymore.

Search for J.K.Rowling. She was a bilionaire in english pounds, and donated most of the money to charity. She already did it. Do you think she did it so she can sell a new book series and have it written on the cover "From the most charitable person on Earth comes, the new adventures of Harry Potter's children".

Get real people, just because some of you are greedy doesn't mean Bill Gates is greedy.

Finally a voice of reason in this thread. It would be the stupidest business decision of the millennia to invest a sum of money like that to "advertise Microsoft".
 
Level 14
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Messages
1,027
Gates explains: “The vast majority of the wealth, over 95 per cent, goes to the foundation, which will spend all that money within 20 years after neither of us are around any more.”

So, if we assassinate him now... the money will start being applied to useful things...

Well, it's a good move for PR. In the US, Social Security was a similar intention... only it was spent on other things while the baby boomers comprised the workforce. Also, the wealthy in the US care solely for self image. Their ranks are dwindling and people are becoming increasingly frustrated. To be fair, moves like these are motivated by survival instincts more than anything else. A 1% member dangling a carrot in front of the working-poor due to sheer boredom. Must be nice to have money...

Also, I have no respect for the ultra-wealthy. I respect their successes, yes, but not their hording personalities and meddling with governments to further increase their wealth (once you're rich enough, the only thing to do with money is use it to make more money).

//\\oo//\\
 
Level 27
Joined
May 30, 2007
Messages
2,872
Irrelevant. Charity always has been a good method to gain social acknowledgment.
Now here's where your entire argument falls apart:

Why gain social acknowledgment?

Don't quip the same stuff you've been saying already:
Nuclear, [...] you still don't seem to get it.
This is your own failure of perception. Nuclear gets your point and you get his point. Who gets what point is beside the point. People are going to fabricate their own point anyway. I'd say you're talking past each other but you're not. Nuclear is talking past you and you're just sort of brushing off everything anyone says because you fathom that the average person is somehow not very intelligent.
That will also make your product sell better, since people won't only avoid turning away with disgust, they will feel involved with your charitable activities.

As I said, just marketing.
Investing billions in that foundation would never even remotely pay back.
Simple basic economics. But if I call it that it sounds complex. Economics in my experience is common sense "formalized" badly. After a certain amount, there is no way in physical reality donating to charity will give you any kind of monetary return, through any path or logic. Yes, being charitable does indeed do what you say, but the scale at which it does so makes it entirely unprofitable on both short and long term basis. You would make more money investing in lottery tickets and raffles. You could have a better monetary return on your investment by physically burning half your cash than donating in absurd figures to charities of any formulation.

After a certain point the return your seek on your investment cannot in all reason be monetary at all.

So, again, why, seek, social, acknowledgment?
Knowing that they buy what they need from nice people.
>implying there are people that exist that buy based on valor and not budget

You speak as if things that are obvious to you should be obvious to everyone else. Well I have news for you. They aren't obvious to you either. They aren't obvious at all. Nothing is truly obvious except for maybe sheer Boolean of existence itself. You have to actually think about things before you begin to understand them. Otherwise your brain is entirely lacking in the neural patterns necessary to have that set of thoughts. You are doing a piss-poor job of getting anyone to think. Either for themselves or as a debate partner to you, honestly.
If you want to show results, you have to reach deep into your pocket.
It's funny. In all the documentaries I watch, it doesn't occur to me how incredibly fallacious it is to believe "more money" solves problems instead of creates them until I see you say this.
Giving out food, medicine, etc does not work.
It works, it just doesn't solve the root issue; bandaids.
Poor countries need education.
Yes, they need modern education, because life as we know it is only able to exist due to the presence of guiding intelligence. Let us teach them to use the tools we use.

The tools they don't have and can't afford. -.-
If they had a brain to not have so many kids and overpopulate.
They absolutely positively do have that. You're deluded if you think that there's a single parent on Earth, human or animal, that doesn't grasp the concept that their children need to eat too.
If they had a brain to do anything, they could slowly pull themselves out of their mess.
They have a brain, they just don't have the will, the tools, or the knowledge of how to make the tools on the scale they need to really... Thrive.
Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach him to fish and he'll eat for life...
Teach a man to use a system of livelihood that makes him beholden to you and your way of doing things...

Third world countries are locked in a cycle of toxic debt slavery to Europe. This age old recipe for disaster and oppression is what the American revolution prevented from happening to America.
That said, free food isn't necessarily good for the economy
"Free" is never "economic."
Get real people, just because some of you are greedy doesn't mean Bill Gates is greedy.
+100
Doing the opposite would be like evaluating nazism without Hitler.
Is this not a worthwhile endeavor?
 
Level 14
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
759
I stand behind Gates on charity.


But I must say something I saw nobody mentioned. Probably because you are not aware of it (or too young or not interested to be). In pretty much every country there are special laws concerning corporative charity that reduce the yearly taxes and VAT tax returned to the company on which behalf the donations are made.

I don't know the numbers in the other countries but here in Bulgaria if you have corporative income of (for example) 100 000 000 a year and you donate a formula calculated amount for charity reasons the government will reduce the company's yearly taxes by a FIXED percentage. Currently is like this
standard - 10% yearly tax
VAT - 20% per sell (VAT is returned from the money gathered by taxes in the country at the end of the economical year - 30th of March)

after donating the fixed amount
standard - lower to 4% yearly tax
VAT - 10% returned

Bill Gates has put his PERSONAL money - the money he gets as a main stockholder in Microsoft. A mere fraction of what the company earns yearly.

So technically if the charity is donating on behalf of Microsoft, the company gets a lot more from saving from taxes in return. (if the law of charity stimulating is in the same form in the country Microsoft is registered in)


I figured I'd just drop this from economical point of view. Charity is good, even better when the country (e.g. the people who pay their bills) is technically funding it under one form or another.
 
Level 14
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
1,547
So technically if the charity is donating on behalf of Microsoft, the company gets a lot more from saving from taxes in return. (if the law of charity stimulating is in the same form in the country Microsoft is registered in)

The charity is through Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation with Bill's own money, I can't connect Microsoft into the thing no matter how hard I think.
 
Level 14
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
759
The charity is through Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation with Bill's own money, I can't connect Microsoft into the thing no matter how hard I think.

Each foundation (each company in fact) can have a mother-firm above it. For example when Disney bought Lucastarts they remained a destinguished company but are owned by another one. Same goes for foundations of any kind, no matter were they bought or made. Information on the connections between them can be scarce in internet as they are not obliqued to share it worldwide. That is why I said in theory it can be charity with benefits. It's hard to prove it unless the company is 'open business model' which we know Microsoft is not. In fact aside from Arab banks, no large companies follow that model.

There is no need to think, but research. I doubt most people on here are interested in laws and company politics as I am. ^^
 
Last edited:
Level 14
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
1,547
Same goes for foundations of any kind, no matter were they bought or made. Information on the connections between them can be scarce in internet as they are not obliqued to share it worldwide.

Nope, Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation has a status of charitable foundation that enjoys tax exemptions, so there are regulations that apply. For example it must publish annual reports about its doings, and it must not have tight connections with for-profit companies.
 
Level 14
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
759
Nope, Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation has a status of charitable foundation that enjoys tax exemptions, so there are regulations that apply. For example it must publish annual reports about its doings, and it must not have tight connections with for-profit companies.

Wrong.

Every company has to publish annual reports, but not every company has to publish it outside of the governmental regulated areas of state and federal levels. Private foundations are excluded from that requirement.

Every U.S. and foreign charity that qualifies as tax-exempt under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code is considered a "private foundation".

In addition, a private foundation usually derives its principal fund from an individual, family, corporation, or some other single source and is more often than not a grantmaker and does not solicit funds from the public.

These of course tend to be private foundations. Some private foundations however, (and most public charities) use their received funds to directly engage in service activities themselves and achieve their goals "personally," so-to-speak.

Examples of a non-operating private foundation would be the Rockefeller Foundation and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.


Yesterday I emailed my professor about that and I am afraid he agrees. The foundation can be connected to the company without the need to make it public information, thus getting tax reliefs.

Speculations are not needed, as not even he can be absolutely sure.
 
Level 24
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
4,097
Yes and I've heard that the tooth fairy comes and picks up my teeth at night in exchange for money.

But I will say this about Bill Gates he's a great man and if the world were full of people like him the world would be a much better place.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top