Are there any maps w/ good DIALOGS and actual ROLE-PLAYING??

[mEtaLL1x]

Browsing through many wc3mapping forums, I can't help but witness a total perversion of the concept of RPG. Most of you seem to think that RPG is a game where you level up your hero, smash enemies (players), have lots of custom spells, items and stuff.

No. That is not RPG, that's just hack'n'slash game.

RPG is the game/map where you actually create your alter-ego (more or less) and interact with the world around you. Primary means of interaction is CONVERSATION, not battle (well, only for dumbest characters). WEll, battle is of course, also important sometimes and stuff, but depending on story it may be avoided partially or altogether.

This I fail to see in wc3 maps nowadays. Even some bright examples, top 10 maps, like D5D system, Hero RPG and stuff are NOT RPGs, they are pure hack'n'slash.
Never have I seen a single map with even the simples multi-optional dialog. Here, I even attached my own demo-map with such dialog. It's simple, just using the advanced triggers from WE Unlimited. Also, I did one multi-choice system myself using multiboards, but it was kinda clunky.

See, it's all doable, it's all possible to implement, but still most people think that mindless foe-crushing maps are interesting... alright, maybe it's interesting to them, but PLEASE don't label them RPGs, okay?

So I ask our community: ARE THERE ANY REAL RPGs OUT THEREwith non-linear dialogs, story and NPCs???

I alwasys wanted to make one, but alone it's almost impossible. I have lots of ideas. If you want to cooperate or just share, plz do ask. Or if someone already has a project in the making, I could assist you, especially in RPG story/dialog-related issues.


Edit: Whoops, can't attach anything... WTF? There is no such option at all? Strange...

 

[titan_06]

that would be monumental in triggering, and most likely lagg in multiplayer.


edit: you'll more likely find something like that in a campaign.

 

[Rui]

Role-Playing? There is already DoBRP and CoTMRP! Those are Roleplaying. Download them in the Maps Section. Happy ending.

-Rui

 

[Redoubt]

I'd be happy to help you.

My deal is that I know the world editor inside and out. I've been making maps for about 3 years now, making me probably one of the most experianced mappers on b.net. Not many of my maps go to completion because I always fail to implement all the ideas I have for them.

What I need is someone who can set out the map on paper or otherwise, and I'll make it happen.

A couple of things I'll have to add though;

1) WC3 is a stratergy game, hence all of it's players are stratergy game fans. If the game doesn't involve stratergy, then it doesn't belong on Warcraft.

2) Action. Tthis seems to be the downfall of every RPG out there. When I say action, I don't mean right clicking gnolls for half an hour, I mean full on multiple player battles that happen frequently using balanced heroes. Any RPG should at least consist of waring factions, or continents, or whatever. If I wanted to play a good, relaxing RPG, I'd stick Morrowind into my CD drive. Don't try and beat what cannot be beaten.

3) Storyline and background. Enough said. Less than 1 percent of maps on Warcraft have a background to them. Even less have one that isn't 'Faction A hates faction B so now there's a war. Get to it.'.

Redoubt

 

[VGsatomi]

To basically reiterate what Redoubt said...in the wc3 mapping biz, hero-leveling, creep smashing, story-laden games ARE considered RPGs here. Thats what defines the catagory in wc3. Things dont always have to follow the paper sit-around-a-crowded-table-with-dice-and-spreadsheets-D&D to be labeled an RPG.
-VGsatomi

 

[mEtaLL1x]

Things dont always have to follow the paper sit-around-a-crowded-table-with-dice-and-spreadsheets-D&D to be labeled an RPG.

You see, there are definitions of terms.
RPG, in order to retain its name, must have deep story, live NPCs, non-linearity (at least partial), player affecting the world and the world's background.
If all or some of these aspects are abscent, then it is not an RPG.
FOr instance, even MOrrowind is not pure RPG. Let's not dwell on it here, but just so you know.

Redoubt, okay, your offer is surely tempting.
Have to comment your points tho:

1) WC3 is a stratergy game, hence all of it's players are stratergy game fans. If the game doesn't involve stratergy, then it doesn't belong on Warcraft.

Not really. Why should it?
Anyways, what I have in mind contains strategy elements, so everyone will be happy.

2) Action. Tthis seems to be the downfall of every RPG out there.

Agreed. Not that RPG should be easy, no way. But the challenging parts should be dialog choices, some really big decisions in gameplay, not only tough bosses.

3) Storyline and background. Enough said. Less than 1 percent of maps on Warcraft have a background to them. Even less have one that isn't 'Faction A hates faction B so now there's a war. Get to it.'.

No storyline - no RPG. 'nuff said.



Now, technical issues:


2 ALL, and Redoubt in particular:

First of all, there is that question of dialog systems.
Do you know a better way to contruct multi-optional dialog trees, than using the corresponding advanced trigger in WEU?
I mean, it looks good and stuff (although i really don't like those unitshadows around your character) but there's one problem: i can't seem to find a good way to return to the tree root. There is no GoTO function, right?
It's way too tedious creating those trees without the possiblity of returning quickly to the initial lines (like when you ask questions and then return to the "What do you want to know?" node).

So, can you improve the system?

I see it as the only obstacle, basically.


Oh, and here's the map with my dialog system (without WEU): download here

By the way, my system actually is better than WEU's in a way that allows going to initial nodes, because each node is a separate triggger. This also causes a lot of problems, because there's a ton of triggers involved... hard to keep track of it, but still easier than in those IF-THEN-ELSE trees of WEU-system....
Plus, it's even more convienent for the player.

Whaddaya think?