"ALL IN" Co-Op map

[JCarrill0]

I been wanting to make an "ALL IN" Co-Op myself, would anyone be willing to help me out if I get any questions along the way?

My idea for the map is just a basic Co-Op of the map:

• Co-Op (2 Terran players)
• Difficulty Selector (Casual, Normal, Hard, Brutal)
• Having both the Air Version, and the Nydas Worms version in the same Map
• Both Players would be shared units, not individual.
• Player have access to all mercenaries
• Player has all Armory upgrades!
• Players Choose Lab Research via Science Station or possibly have all

I Need help on that last part, and possibly other parts such as adding a special harder then brutal difficulty called "Insane". Le me know if you interested. I'm not looking for it to be #1 Co-Op map, just a CO-Op me and my buddy can play.

 

[Dr Super Good]

I could swear someone already made this.

In any case ask away, I am always willing to try and help solve problems when I can.

 

[JCarrill0]

I could swear someone already made this.

In any case ask away, I am always willing to try and help solve problems when I can.

cool, show me a link please
It's odd someone would have a map exactly like mine, but hey if its what I'm asking for then i shall play it!

 

[Dr Super Good]

There are two on US server.
starcraft://map/1/227534
starcraft://map/1/233025

No idea of their quality.

 

[JCarrill0]

There are two on US server.
starcraft://map/1/227534
starcraft://map/1/233025

No idea of their quality.

oh, so their not like what I described...

 

[Dr Super Good]

Co-Op (2 Terran players)

Both are 2 Terran players apparently.

Difficulty Selector (Casual, Normal, Hard, Brutal)

Probably lacking. Who does not play on Brutal anyway.

Having both the Air Version, and the Nydas Worms version in the same Map

I thought one had this.

Both Players would be shared units, not individual.

Yeh I do not think they have this.

Player have access to all mercenaries
• Player has all Armory upgrades!
• Players Choose Lab Research via Science Station or possibly have all

Also thought they had these.

and possibly other parts such as adding a special harder then brutal difficulty called "Insane".

One of them claims to be harder than standard Brutal.

Most of those requirements are fulfilled by the existing maps.

 

[JCarrill0]

so.. not exactly like I said then... thus why I am making one
I'm glad we cleared this up

Now, down to business:
Since your always willing to help perhaps you can look into those features I wrote above about

 

[Dr Super Good]

Since your always willing to help perhaps you can look into those features I wrote above about

What is there to look into? I mean they are simple map features.

 

[JCarrill0]

What is there to look into? I mean they are simple map features.

See post #1.
Maybe simple for you, not everyone is an expert.
A few examples:
I have no idea to make a research option for the extra zerg/protoss upgrades.

One problem I have also is for some strange reason, Both events wont take place. It's always one or the other.

PS - I know the author of the maps you spoke of, DarkDolphins (now known as Iskander) told me some of the examples I gave are pretty complicated to pull off. I have yet to find help on this project. While the thread here is new, this idea was posted by me over a year ago (before HOTS came out), maybe things have gotten easier to map since then.

 

[Dr Super Good]

I have no idea to make a research option for the extra zerg/protoss upgrades.

You add them to the appropriate Research class Ability and then insert the research orders into the unit's command card (the one(s) with the research ability) with appropriate buttons.

One problem I have also is for some strange reason, Both events wont take place. It's always one or the other.

A bank value is used to determine which event takes place in a mutually exclusive way since they did not want bank hackers breaking their campaign. You may also need to check the trigger in case of any variable collisions (where both paths use the same variables differently in a way that they cannot co-exist). The solution in this case would be to define new variables unique for each path (parallel to each other to go with parallel triggers). This is not any different from doing similar in WC3.

Difficulty Selector (Casual, Normal, Hard, Brutal)

You need to change all references to standard difficulty with a game type or attribute which you read in at map initialization. Pre-placed units (who's existence depends on campaign difficulty) may require being set to always present and then using the same difficulty determining trigger you manually remove the ones inappropriate to the chosen difficulty.

Both Players would be shared units, not individual.

Make one player own the units (the standard player). The other player is then given full unit and resource control over the one player. A trigger registering resource changes could be used to make their resources appear equal and manage them synchronously.

Player have access to all mercenaries

When the bank is normally loaded you just set the appropriate flags to constants.

• Player has all Armory upgrades!

I could swear in the campaign you have to research them all in the armory... If you mean able to be researched then the above applies (replace them being loaded from a bank with constants).

Players Choose Lab Research via Science Station or possibly have all

Custom unit with research ability or if already learnt then use the same approach as above, instead of loading values from a bank you make them constants.

 

[JCarrill0]

You add them to the appropriate Research class Ability and then insert the research orders into the unit's command card (the one(s) with the research ability) with appropriate buttons.

The problem is making if just like the campaign where you can choose one or the other, not both. I had added them before and it was a cluster F***.

A bank value is used to determine which event takes place in a mutually exclusive way since they did not want bank hackers breaking their campaign. You may also need to check the trigger in case of any variable collisions (where both paths use the same variables differently in a way that they cannot co-exist). The solution in this case would be to define new variables unique for each path (parallel to each other to go with parallel triggers). This is not any different from doing similar in WC3.

see i messed with the Trigger with the values but after tweeking it, sometime it would do an air strike, and then later in the game I would restart or start over, it would do nydus worms. (STUPID NEWB MAP MAKER)

You need to change all references to standard difficulty with a game type or attribute which you read in at map initialization. Pre-placed units (who's existence depends on campaign difficulty) may require being set to always present and then using the same difficulty determining trigger you manually remove the ones inappropriate to the chosen difficulty.

While I wanted to be able to select to selection like Blizzard Left2Die Map, I kinda like the option selectable before we start the game. (Left2die had this option in the beta versions) is that still viable, or problems will occur?

Make one player own the units (the standard player). The other player is then given full unit and resource control over the one player. A trigger registering resource changes could be used to make their resources appear equal and manage them synchronously.

See I did this in my wc3 map "Twilight of the gods" where I made the last NE mission 2 players. (Never was made public)
Same rules apply eh?

When the bank is normally loaded you just set the appropriate flags to constants.

Here is where my knowledge diminishes, when I play the map, it tells me I must unlock them from the Catina. WTF lol.

I could swear in the campaign you have to research them all in the armory... If you mean able to be researched then the above applies (replace them being loaded from a bank with constants).

Yeah I will have to use the idea you said above, but I need a different approach to the researches I mentioned above

Custom unit with research ability or if already learnt then use the same approach as above, instead of loading values from a bank you make them constants.

Perhaps i should make liek a science lab Facility and I guess add an additional resource like "Bio Mass" (again stealing the idea from Left2Die), But I would need one for Protoss as well such as "Psyonic Mass"

 

[Dr Super Good]

The problem is making if just like the campaign where you can choose one or the other, not both. I had added them before and it was a cluster F***.

"Not or" requirement (queued or better on player) for show added to the order for the research ability. This would mean that if one of them is ordered the button would disappear as the show requirement fail. It may still be possible to order them via latency or third party hack (I am not sure if show implies use) so for safety put the same requirement on use.

see i messed with the Trigger with the values but after tweeking it, sometime it would do an air strike, and then later in the game I would restart or start over, it would do nydus worms. (STUPID NEWB MAP MAKER)

I am not sure how they coded the map exactly anymore (I last read it over a year ago) but in any case you just need to make sure that the logic runs in parallel instead of mutually exclusive.

While I wanted to be able to select to selection like Blizzard Left2Die Map, I kinda like the option selectable before we start the game. (Left2die had this option in the beta versions) is that still viable, or problems will occur?

With SC2 2.0 you can choose type of game from the arcade lobby. You can add the difficulty as a type of game. Mission Frontier has this to choose between 6 player, 10 player or PvP mode as an example.

See I did this in my wc3 map "Twilight of the gods" where I made the last NE mission 2 players. (Never was made public)
Same rules apply eh?

Pretty much but shared resources is built in to the game. It used to even share the count as a common pool but during the 1.0 beta they seem to have changed this mechanic so it always uses your resources first before theirs. This would mean that using shared resources alone with one player owning the units would work flawlessly but the other player cannot directly see the resource pool. The triggers would be needed as a kind of UI so he knows what is available. If the resources are kept synchronized properly it should not mater who they are deducted from as the synchronization would remove them from the other player.

Here is where my knowledge diminishes, when I play the map, it tells me I must unlock them from the Catina. WTF lol.

Some stage durining initialization of the map it loads the single player campaign bank and from that determines what you have and do not have access to. Since loading such a bank is total nonsense in this case you can simply change all the load values (the actions responsible for retrieving values from the bank) with constant values as if you had a bank matching your requirements. In the case of upgrades where it was possible to learn them all this should work perfectly. In the case of the mission itself where choices influence what happens it may not as mutual exclusion could apply (was not designed around both ever happening at once).

But I would need one for Protoss as well such as "Psyonic Mass"

The Protoss never featured in the All In mission? This is the first time you have mentioned them as specifically before you requested both players control a single Terran player.

 

[JCarrill0]

As for the Psyonic mass, i was referring to adding the protoss research technology, such as automated refinery, its not a standard upgrade/research, you had to unlock it by getting protoss artifacts, thus creating a science facility (in the above post).
Bio mass to gather the zerg research abilities (choosing one or the other just like the campaign offered) as for Toss, I'd have to come up with something completely new.

It doesn't have anything to do with the mission itself. But if you think about it, if you never got any protoss relics in the previous mission you could not get the researches upgraded.

 

[Dr Super Good]

As for the Psyonic mass, i was referring to adding the protoss research technology, such as automated refinery, its not a standard upgrade/research, you had to unlock it by getting protoss artifacts, thus creating a science facility (in the above post).

You can remove that logic from the triggers or just load that you do not have them from the banks (again, not loading from a real bank, but instead you are setting the variables to a set of constants and things). Then all you need is to make a unit with the research ability to research the upgrades.

It doesn't have anything to do with the mission itself. But if you think about it, if you never got any protoss relics in the previous mission you could not get the researches upgraded.

You were past the point of no return at this stage and so if you did not have the requirements to unlock them in the lab you were stuffed and had to take on the final mission without all unlock upgrades. Obviously the upgrade itself was hidden and never researched, only unlocked in the lab and automatically acquired when the missions started. This was all controlled by values loaded from a bank.

HotS campaign was slightly less unfair. There was no "point of no return" and any unlocks you missed (except the alternative strains? not sure but those were all available as part of the main story if you bothered to hit a button and play through a cannot lose mini-game) could be unlocked by replaying the missions. In fact they even encouraged replaying at a higher difficulty as your Kerrigan hero started with more stats and abilities making things easier.

 

[JCarrill0]

you keep saying I don't have to do this or that. lol
Good sir, That is what I am wanting to do

The unlocks from the lab part was an example so you understood what I was trying to recreate for the research science facility. I'm not wanting to make them regular research upgrades!

I'm not thinking I will have to use any HOTS stuff will I?

 

[Dr Super Good]

I'm not thinking I will have to use any HOTS stuff will I?

Sorry I went a bit off topic. Was just letting my rage out about the WoL campaign.

I'm not wanting to make them regular research upgrades!

You will need to explain in more detail how you want a person to obtain them. There are dozens of ways it could be done. Why even make them mutually exclusive especially if you are already dealing with something more difficult that normal (and some of them were not that useful anyway).

You could randomly spawn artefacts and Zerg pieces around the map which are picked up by nearby units and can be used to unlock the technologies once a certain number are acquired.

You could automatically unlock them at a certain time. However some of the later ones are more useful early on than at the end.

You could make some dialog element with a progress bar representing the research progress towards the upgrade that are obtained via some means.

You could add side quests for a "Protoss Hero" that give you the upgrades when completed.

 

[JCarrill0]

You will need to explain in more detail how you want a person to obtain them. There are dozens of ways it could be done. Why even make them mutually exclusive especially if you are already dealing with something more difficult that normal (and some of them were not that useful anyway).

You could randomly spawn artefacts and Zerg pieces around the map which are picked up by nearby units and can be used to unlock the technologies once a certain number are acquired.

You could automatically unlock them at a certain time. However some of the later ones are more useful early on than at the end.

You could make some dialog element with a progress bar representing the research progress towards the upgrade that are obtained via some means.

You could add side quests for a "Protoss Hero" that give you the upgrades when completed.

I posted above a few posts how I was wanting to do it, but I will get into more detail when I have more ideas, I might even consider using the ones you suggested.

 

[Ralle]

Re-opened by request from the author.

 

[JCarrill0]

Re-opened by request from the author.

Thank you.

I have some issues with Mercs, not being able to be purchasable, it only does not do both versions yet, as I am intending it too, it's been years since I even attempted to look at this map, so I think I need to start from scratch, but with the same ideas in mind.
I also want to keep it WoL playable, with these ideas in mind (see post#1) is this still possible?

 

[Dr Super Good]

I also want to keep it WoL playable, with these ideas in mind (see post#1) is this still possible?

I doubt anything you create now with the editor is WoL (1.0) compatible. This however is not a problem as everyone has LotV (3.0) installed. Arcade means they do not need to own the licence to play.

 

[JCarrill0]

I just don't have to load the dependencies correct?

 

[Dr Super Good]

I just don't have to load the dependencies correct?

You do not have to, but also you are not forced to.

 

[JCarrill0]

​

You do not have to, but also you are not forced to.

Forgive me, but is this a technical reply, I don't get it.

I was thinking this solved my issue. (but not using them it allows me to make sure it will be WoL only)

also:

Are you wanting to help? (cuz I'm not looking for someone to waste replies for technicality)

I think you mentioned bank data, but I can't find anything on it (maybe I'm too newb to understand, but I am trying)

 

[KILLCIDE]

Re-opened on OP's request.

 

[JCarrill0]

I been wanting to make an "ALL IN" Co-Op myself, would anyone be willing to help me out if I get any questions along the way?

My idea for the map is just a basic Co-Op of the map:

• Co-Op (2 Terran players)
• Difficulty Selector (Casual, Normal, Hard, Brutal)
• Having both the Air Version, and the Nydas Worms version in the same Map
• Both Players would be shared units, not individual.
• Player have access to all mercenaries
• Player has all Armory upgrades!
• Players Choose Lab Research via Science Station or possibly have all

I Need help on that last part, and possibly other parts such as adding a special harder then brutal difficulty called "Insane". Le me know if you interested. I'm not looking for it to be #1 Co-Op map, just a CO-Op me and my buddy can play.

It's been years since I decided to come back to this idea.
First thing is first. I want to create this map using the good ol Wings of Liberty stats, how do I do that?
Do i just force it to load the WoL Dependencies?

 

[Dr Super Good]

Yes. only include the WoL dependency.

 

[JCarrill0]

Yes. only include the WoL dependency.

It seems it already loads 3 Dependencies:

• Liberty (Mod)
  Primary data and assets for Wings of Liberty melee games
• Liberty (Campaign)
  Data and assets for Wings of Liberty single player campaign
• Liberty Story (Campaign)
  Data and assets specific to story mode for Wings of Liberty single player campaign

When I load the Map for the First time (from the campaign), I get this:

• Warning: XML: GameData\LightData.xml(15,13) : Core: invalid object type identification Source: Maps/campaign/tvalerian03.sc2map Entry: Char Scope: CLight.SLightInfo Field: ToDInfoArray[0].Param[0]
• Warning: XML: GameData\LightData.xml(32,13) : Core: invalid object type identification Source: Maps/campaign/tvalerian03.sc2map Entry: MarSara Scope: CLight.SLightInfo Field: ToDInfoArray[0].Param[0]
• Warning: USER: ModelLink[Artifact] Model Assets\Doodads\ArtifactContainmentField\ArtifactContainmentField.m3; Properties detected for attach point Ref_Target 08 which does not exist.

What am I doing wrong here?

Next step would be make it a CO-OP. Is there a way to make it Archon-Mode?

- JC

 

[Dr Super Good]

Those warnings can likely be ignored. It is possible that after dozens of patches those entries and assets have slightly broken in a trivial way.

I am unsure about archon mode. I am guessing it is implemented with shared unit control?

 

[JCarrill0]

Those warnings can likely be ignored. It is possible that after dozens of patches those entries and assets have slightly broken in a trivial way.

Perhaps. No worries then.

I am unsure about archon mode. I am guessing it is implemented with shared unit control?

I would think so, but I can come back to that if someone else has an idea.

I guess the next thing to ask is how to set Difficulties for the Lobby.
I want to create the standard Difficulty setting:

• Casual
• Normal
• Hard
• Brutal
• Fatal

Fatal would be a difficulty I would implement at a later time. Right now I'm just focused on the current ones the map already provides.

 

[JCarrill0]

Any ideas?

 

[JCarrill0]

Always willing to get some more help on this!

 

[JCarrill0]

Still looking for advice.