A varied map protection?

[Pub]

In advance, I'd like to apologize if this was not the right subforum to post under, but it seems appropriate because it deals with map protecters (if my assumption is correct).

Here is the scenario:

We're aware of the patch that destroyed a majority of the custom games, for whatever true reason - I don't know and would like to know to clarify why this patch took place for knowledge's sake but not necessary.

One map I enjoyed playing was broken but here's where it gets complicated.

This map is what I can only assume is semi-protected. From my experience of trying to open protected maps - errors occur and editor won't load, simple. Now with THIS map, it loads EVERYTHING perfectly fine - except the triggers. My only assumptions I can come up with is that whatever was used to protect this map makes it more complicated to break open. Another assumption I have comes to mind but it just seems too far-fetched.

I've been digging around on a few forums, but I think this just too specific to come across with ease, unless I'm aware of the keywords for why this occurs (trigger-only-protection, etc).

I was hoping at first just to open the map and have a friend change the triggers to make it current-patch-friendly so we can have some lulzy times. But at this point, I'll just have to guess what triggers were implemented, and try our best to recreate it as close as possible.

If anyone could shed some light on my situation as to why this occurs with this map, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[HesitationSnow]

Hello Pub, welcome to The Hive Workshop =)
Note: Hive doesn't deal with breaking into protected maps
Also map name/link would be nice.
However, I have not heard of semi-protected maps, so there is a chance it is not protected (if so, I will help).

What you speak of is the "return bug" which was fixed in 1.24 patch.
Go here for more info and a tutorial by PurgeandFire111: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/general-mapping-tutorials-278/make-map-work-patch-1-24-a-165482/

I have personally used this tutorial to bring back some 1.24 maps in the past.
To fix your map, we need to access the trigger editor.

More information on how you are unable to "load" the triggers would be nice. Can you at least get to the trigger editor?
I don't think there is a protection that lets you open the map in Editor and unable to access trigger editor.

If you are unable to access the trigger editor for some reason, it may be a bug.
In that case, I will help you edit the triggers from war3map.j directly to fix it (however, the map must not be protected for me to access war3map.j).
If the map is protected, your best bet will be to recreate the triggers (I could help), or try contacting the original mapmaker.

--
I see you are new, and probably made the account just to ask for the help.
THW is a great WC3 modding community. You've come to the right place =).
Hope you decide to stick around if you ever want help in the future.

 

[Pub]

Hello Pub, welcome to The Hive Workshop =)
Note: Hive doesn't deal with breaking into protected maps
Also map name/link would be nice.
However, I have not heard of semi-protected maps, so there is a chance it is not protected (if so, I will help).

What you speak of is the "return bug" which was fixed in 1.24 patch.
Go here for more info and a tutorial by PurgeandFire111: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/general-mapping-tutorials-278/make-map-work-patch-1-24-a-165482/

I have personally used this tutorial to bring back some 1.24 maps in the past.
To fix your map, we need to access the trigger editor.

More information on how you are unable to "load" the triggers would be nice. Can you at least get to the trigger editor?
I don't think there is a protection that lets you open the map in Editor and unable to access trigger editor.

If you are unable to access the trigger editor for some reason, it may be a bug.
In that case, I will help you edit the triggers from war3map.j directly to fix it (however, the map must not be protected for me to access war3map.j).
If the map is protected, your best bet will be to recreate the triggers (I could help), or try contacting the original mapmaker.

--
I see you are new, and probably made the account just to ask for the help.
THW is a great WC3 modding community. You've come to the right place =).
Hope you decide to stick around if you ever want help in the future.

http://www.epicwar.com/maps/42631/ This would be the map I am talking about - Herb Tag. There are two versions of this out there that I can find (my WarCraft 3 is currently not updated to the latest patches so I test ran it on single player).

Allow me to be more specific with the trigger problem. The editor functions perfectly fine with every tool I have currently dabbled around with, including the trigger editor. The problem is this - when the trigger editor loads, there are no triggers (the original triggers used for the map). This is why I am so confused because I never have read up on such a situation and have been digging around to see why this has happened. As much as I would love help to get this map up and running once again for friends, even with help from users like yourself who offer assistance - I don't think it's possible if there are no triggers to fix and I'd rather not dump a majority of the work load on random kind gentlemen. The game loads and runs perfectly fine in single player so I figured a test run through the editor would have yielded the same results to an extent, but because of the no triggers in place - the map has no actions take place. At this point, I'll just have to mess around in game and guess what the triggers are that take place (spawning units).

I noticed the maker did have a clan up at some point along with some forums running but the forums are down now and I don't think there will be another possible way to track him down (on top of the latest map being uploaded in '08 while the patch took place in '10).

--
A friend of mine recommended this site to become familiar with the Editor and map making
While I never took a serious dedication for creating a map, I always loved looking around seeing what people have done
I've lurked ever since but just decided to register for this post
Merry Christmas to you and everyone

 

[HesitationSnow]

Hello again. Thanks for reply.
This is the weirdest map I have ever encountered.
First of all, I can play it (but no triggers).
Broken maps shouldn't be playable with post-1.24 patch.
I don't know why you can even play this triggerless map even with a pre-1.24 patch.
Before tampering with the map in any way, freshly downloaded, even the war3map.j files was essentially empty (hence, no triggers in this map, so I don't understand how you can play it).
I hope someone else can help you as this is completely mystifying to me, sorry =c.

 

[Dr Super Good]

This map is what I can only assume is semi-protected. From my experience of trying to open protected maps - errors occur and editor won't load, simple. Now with THIS map, it loads EVERYTHING perfectly fine - except the triggers. My only assumptions I can come up with is that whatever was used to protect this map makes it more complicated to break open. Another assumption I have comes to mind but it just seems too far-fetched.

Map was optimized with Vexorians Optimizer except it was set to add dummy files so that it would not crash the editor due to a file not found type error. People forget you can do this with Vexorians Optimizer. Only reason more maps do not use it is that it does increase map size a little.

 

[Pub]

Hello again. Thanks for reply.
This is the weirdest map I have ever encountered.
First of all, I can play it (but no triggers).
Broken maps shouldn't be playable with post-1.24 patch.
I don't know why you can even play this triggerless map even with a pre-1.24 patch.
Before tampering with the map in any way, freshly downloaded, even the war3map.j files was essentially empty (hence, no triggers in this map, so I don't understand how you can play it).
I hope someone else can help you as this is completely mystifying to me, sorry =c.

Oh well, I'm used to crazy stuff happening to me by now. Unfortunately it never ends. Thanks for giving it your best.

Map was optimized with Vexorians Optimizer except it was set to add dummy files so that it would not crash the editor due to a file not found type error. People forget you can do this with Vexorians Optimizer. Only reason more maps do not use it is that it does increase map size a little.

Interesting. So at this point, to have any hope of having this map playable again - someone must recreate whatever triggers possible to try and bring back as close and similar of game play possible, correct?

 

[Dr Super Good]

Interesting. So at this point, to have any hope of having this map playable again - someone must recreate whatever triggers possible to try and bring back as close and similar of game play possible, correct?

Or just copy and paste the raw trigger script into a JNGP trigger, remove any lobby functions and then call the initialization function. That is how most people do it.

But all trigger GUI and structure is lost, as well as names thanks to the optimizer.

 

[Pub]

Or just copy and paste the raw trigger script into a JNGP trigger, remove any lobby functions and then call the initialization function. That is how most people do it.

But all trigger GUI and structure is lost, as well as names thanks to the optimizer.

Thank you. I also found out somewhere else through a friend that "Protection will delete the *.wtg which is the GUI portion of the Editor. The only way to edit the triggers is Jass (Non-GUI)."

If this were true, and triggers were created through the editor, would this mean that all pre-existing triggers are officially deleted? Or would the original triggers still exist because of the optimizer and just create conflicting triggers?

Because at this point I'm just curious if its a blank map ready to be edited for triggers to be revived. And with this optimization - is this map officially protected to the point that hackers can't break it? (the trigger part at least)

 

[Dr Super Good]

The triggers in the editor have nothing to do with the trigger script. The WarCraft III game engine runs the trigger script at map initialization using the jass interpreter. The editor triggers do nothing ingame.

When you save a map, a compiler converts the editor triggers into the trigger script for the map. In the case of a map like SWAT Aftermath this produces over 20,000 lines of JASS code. As the game engine never uses the editor triggers they can be discarded as well as any convencience data they added.

Even if they are discarded you can still edit the trigger script file directly. You can also create some editor triggers to contain such trigger script file although they will never have the details of the orignal editor triggers.

 

[Pub]

The triggers in the editor have nothing to do with the trigger script. The WarCraft III game engine runs the trigger script at map initialization using the jass interpreter. The editor triggers do nothing ingame.

When you save a map, a compiler converts the editor triggers into the trigger script for the map. In the case of a map like SWAT Aftermath this produces over 20,000 lines of JASS code. As the game engine never uses the editor triggers they can be discarded as well as any convencience data they added.

Even if they are discarded you can still edit the trigger script file directly. You can also create some editor triggers to contain such trigger script file although they will never have the details of the orignal editor triggers.

How does one access and edit the trigger script directly from this point on?

 

[Dr Super Good]

You extact the trigger script from the map, edit it and then insert it back into the map. This can be done due to the block and hash tables staying constant in size and shape in the MPQ archive, only the block entries may need reference modification to accomodate the increase in size.

 

[Pub]

You extact the trigger script from the map, edit it and then insert it back into the map. This can be done due to the block and hash tables staying constant in size and shape in the MPQ archive, only the block entries may need reference modification to accomodate the increase in size.

I've searched the forums, with the search function (extract trigger script), and googled it as well and it seems to be dealing with unprotecting the maps to do these sort of things. Am I right to assume that asking how do this is illegal within these forums?

 

[Dr Super Good]

It is illegal to directly ask for a map to be deprotected, whether the reason is moral or not.

It is not illegal to discuss the mechanics behind how a map works and what you can and cannot do with a map.

You cannot make a 100% edit proof map. No forms of MPQ damage are able to mitigate the fact WC3 still needs to read the data files. As these data files have known names nothing prevents someone from making a new MPQ archive with modified versions of these data files.