(2)Falguard'd Fallen Land V1.1

[Nudl9]

Red ambient light.
Blue tile textures.
Green water.

There's too many different color themes on this map.

 

[Zucth]

Red ambient light.
Blue tile textures.
Green water.

There's too many different color themes on this map.

Is this a compliment, told to change or map explanation? i was not sure about what are u talking about here...
You may say it was not look natural.
but I already explain in the map description that this map was a dungeon city, the deeper the colder. so it was you see.
I use green color water cause didn't want middle to look red, the theme is freeze dungeon.

 

[Nudl9]

It's a critique and not a compliment.
The tile textures you're using and the contrast you're using makes it jarring to look at.
Like why is there ice in a climate that looks hot?
That doesn't make a sense.
Generally speaking dungeon is just an ugly tileset and shouldn't be used for melee.
It's better to stick with a simple color palette like green/brown because those colors creates a specific mood that you want for competitive play.

This was just posted on reddit as a meme, i think you get the idea.

 

[Zucth]

It's a critique and not a compliment.
The tile textures you're using and the contrast you're using makes it jarring to look at.
Like why is there ice in a climate that looks hot?
That doesn't make a sense.
Generally speaking dungeon is just an ugly tileset and shouldn't be used for melee.
It's better to stick with a simple color palette like green/brown because those colors creates a specific mood that you want for competitive play.

This was just posted on reddit as a meme, i think you get the idea.

I do get it, but why not talking about gameplay. I don't think that everybody had the same taste lol. Red isn't always mean hot. For me dungeon is a place, not about temperature, and my taste is that I like dungeon tileset a lot that maybe why. But it also true that most of people really hate dungeon tileset, I can't denied it though.

I got more understand of 1v1 from your meme thank to that, One thing I not sure of is main base on high ground though. I see many people say that high ground main base is good so why it is against in this meme?

 

[Nudl9]

High ground base isn't really a good thing in WC3 since it makes attacking the base a nightmare.
If you can lock off main base then races that rely on pushing aggressively won't have a fair chance.
It's more of a Starcraft thing, where the main base needs to be on high ground otherwise those peskly zerglings can harass your workers.

There are exceptions to this rule with Market Square, which is a 4v4 and FFA map.
In Market Square cliff ramps are usually wide enough to accomodate an early to mid game attack.
The other area it's being used is for hard-expansion on maps such as Last Refuge.
I'm not educated enough on when high ground bases are good to make a proper statement on it, but it's usually best to stay away from it.

Red isn't always mean hot.

No, but it bears a certain association.
There's also an issue with dungeon/underground tilesets specifically, where they've tried to create a 3D impression on "stone paths" textures with red light being reflected from the side. Which you can't do anything about.
Generally speaking you should try and aim for a warmth/cold tone and stick with it.

 

[Zucth]

High ground base isn't really a good thing in WC3 since it makes attacking the base a nightmare.
If you can lock off main base then races that rely on pushing aggressively won't have a fair chance.
It's more of a Starcraft thing, where the main base needs to be on high ground otherwise those peskly zerglings can harass your workers.

There are exceptions to this rule with Market Square, which is a 4v4 and FFA map.
In Market Square cliff ramps are usually wide enough to accomodate an early to mid game attack.
The other area it's being used is for hard-expansion on maps such as Last Refuge.
I'm not educated enough on when high ground bases are good to make a proper statement on it, but it's usually best to stay away from it.


No, but it bears a certain association.
There's also an issue with dungeon/underground tilesets specifically, where they've tried to create a 3D impression on "stone paths" textures with red light being reflected from the side. Which you can't do anything about.
Generally speaking you should try and aim for a warmth/cold tone and stick with it.

So I added Pure blue version.

 

[mafe]

So, there's too maps? From

So I added Pure blue version.

I assume the only difference are visually, but gameplay is identical.
In any case, I've been looking at the more recent map according to the file data.

Regarding gameplay I have one major technical complaint:
1. Any expansion should have a creep that is not blue, or lvl 7+. Currently that is not the case.

Other stuff which is too different from ladder maps:
2. No good creeproute to get your first hero to lvl 2.
3. Too restricted pathing, you have to take long ways around obstacles in many locations.
4. The map is generally too large for 1v1.
5. While the trees are dense, there are too many "untouchable" locations for wisps. Not sure if I explained this too you yet. If not feel free to ask. In any case, trees should be placed using the circular size 2 tool. Place new trees so that they align perfectly with existing trees.
6. Expanding is certainly hard due to strong creeps and long distance to main base.

Visually:
7. The lighting in underground tileset is different from other tilesets. I know many people dont really like it....
8. Ramp-Cliff transitions are bugged once again.

Positives: Itemdrops are fair and the map looks good.

So overall 1. must be fixed. Therefore map set to Awaiting Update. Of course, you can also consider doing something about the other stuff.

 

[Zucth]

So, there's too maps? From

I assume the only difference are visually, but gameplay is identical.
In any case, I've been looking at the more recent map according to the file data.

Regarding gameplay I have one major technical complaint:
1. Any expansion should have a creep that is not blue, or lvl 7+. Currently that is not the case.

Other stuff which is too different from ladder maps:
2. No good creeproute to get your first hero to lvl 2.
3. Too restricted pathing, you have to take long ways around obstacles in many locations.
4. The map is generally too large for 1v1.
5. While the trees are dense, there are too many "untouchable" locations for wisps. Not sure if I explained this too you yet. If not feel free to ask. In any case, trees should be placed using the circular size 2 tool. Place new trees so that they align perfectly with existing trees.
6. Expanding is certainly hard due to strong creeps and long distance to main base.

Visually:
7. The lighting in underground tileset is different from other tilesets. I know many people dont really like it....
8. Ramp-Cliff transitions are bugged once again.

Positives: Itemdrops are fair and the map looks good.

So overall 1. must be fixed. Therefore map set to Awaiting Update. Of course, you can also consider doing something about the other stuff.

1. Blue maybe my mistake maybe I did forgot about it but I'm not suppose to use creep lv.7+ here is something new for me. I will change it as soon as possible

2. Well I didn't thought about that in this map, my bad once again. I just thought about where can I place them and which help them be able to expansion to any route they go... That maybe why it look like running round circle

3. If you talked about the castle area and the mid waterfall (GL) I did agree a bit, but I just thought and design of the castle that stand on the top so the way to get through it maybe to hard... In the starting point was also something that I have thought of as well but I think it was somehow all right

4. Maybe it because of the design that took it run round. But okay.

5. Yeah I try to keep NE away from getting to strong so that's why I didn't use trees in some place to make untouchable, I will remember it next time that this is too much.

6. The one near base I may agree. But I can say that the one down far away isn't that strong. You can use 5 militia 4 footmen and a few rifleman to defeat it with heroes lv.1 . It just look like it was hard, but if you talked about the top. I did design it for tiers 3. Incase of long game.

7. I know that fact, but still I want to make one that make dungeon look beautiful maybe I can find it out next time.
8. Uhh where?

Thank you!

 

[SayuriTenshi]

6. no mafe is right they are both way to far away. and lvl 18 with nova AND posion is not easy at all.
Check northern 10 big tiles away lvl 14 with bloodlust. ur is i think almost double far away wich is 1. to much always and 2. to strong creep.
Middle one is also to hard for the distance and beeing forward

Every map need a somewhat close expansion 7 to 12 tiles or it will get the same fate as melting vally, secret valley or ancient isles

also try custom light, underground light look pretty wierd

 

[Zucth]

In any case this map can't be fixed there are so many thing that I shouldn't do when looking back. You can set this to substandard though. At first I did design this layout to be a 2v2 map. But Idk either how I end up as 1v1 map anyway. ty everyone about the mention earlier.

 

[mafe]

Looking at my previous review:
1. is fixed.
2. looks okay-ish now, but earlygame creeping still seems not too attractive.
3. Still not idea, but either it is a little better now, or I misremember the earlier versions.
4. No point dicussing this any further I guess
5. Safe-wisp trees are still exist.
6. Expading look doable now.
7. same as 4.
8. is fixed.

So overall, some improvements. The map will never be viable for competitive play, but good enough to be approved.