Frozen Nightmare

nightelfbuilder · Feb 28, 2018

Your map is good and but it have some balance and placement issues like:

-Some creep creep camps are too near too each other that they're creating a mass of dots in the mini map. Try placing them further apart or through thick tree walls or cliffs.

- Some creep camps have awkward positioning, try placing them in U or V form and place them wider apart.

-The 4 goldmines in the center are really not necessary, they're unguarded and opens agro from the orange and red camp at the same time and harass from other players.

-Using those rock as walls isn't really a good idea cause they do not block vision naturally like trees or cliff.

Final note: This is a really good map but some places are just to cramp that the camps overlaps each other.
That's all that I have to say and happy modding

4/5

This review is based on the current version that is uploaded, If you want me to do an another review feel free to contact me.

Rockstar356 · Feb 28, 2018

Thanks for commenting and for rating!
I will take into account all your advice for the next map and thus improve as editor.

WolfFarkas · Feb 28, 2018

The only real way to have a competitive melee map for FFA is that every player has equals conditions.
This also was talked in mafe map (24 player madness)

I wish doing a 12 player melee map for FFA was an easy task but is not.

Regarding the FFA
If you see player orange is somehow in range to being attack by 4 players
While the edge players as exmaple dark green , is in range of 2 players, while is clear far away from pink and red.
Mind that distances also involes later aerial attacks (humans tend to do a lot o gryphons, orcs wind raiders and so on.
The only way (I know) to have a competitive melee for FFA for 12 players (not using way-gates) is to have a circle and every player has 2 players at each flank and the map will look like a pizza.
There is a reason that why 6 player, 8 player melee maps from Blizzard are ment for team battles and not for FFA,
if you want to aim for FFA study first what means FFA for 12 players, because I think this doesn´t fit for FFA.
I think this map fits for team battles 3vs3
Sugestion: change FFA for 3vs3 battle to be honest to the audience, inner players are unbalanced against the edge players.

Regarding other things
The goldmines near the dragoon nest are not well placed for a melee map (competitive melee or not) and they are unguarded.
Sugestion remove them

The goldmines in cliff, it will be hard to land without being attack, maybe creeps should be in camp mode or there should be more space to land. Also cannon towers there can do a lot of damage from above, thats why cliff are tricky

Overall
I think this map is very good, not ment for FFA but a good choice for team battles. and well a bit of what to do with goldmines, special the near ones dragon nest

mafe · Feb 28, 2018

Hi first of all, nice work. It would say this map is better suited for 6v6 or 3v3v3v3 than for FFA. Check out the 24 player FFA map contest which Hightac from the FFA-Mastersleague has annouced a few days ago. He is an expert and gave some hints about what is important for FFA maps.

-The itemdrops are ok. I'm not a fan of having a lvl 2 powerups as "main" item on a creepspot as it could be a tome of experience, but for team games/FFA it matters much less than for 1v1, so it is no big deal.
-The middle goldmines are are hard to defend, I doubt anyone will take them in a situation where the game isnt practically decided anyway (though I might be wrong for FFA).
-As people need zeppelins to reach some mines, you could make this more convenient by addng trees for wisps /buildabale terrain for a farm or orc shop near the golbin labs.
Then a few points best illustrated by a screenshot:

In the yellow areas there are paths for small units which probably shouldnt be there. In long games, people will get zeppelins to reach the mines, and there will be probably also be some siege units in the game. This might give players the idea to drop mortars etc on the cliffs behind the middle main bases (red line), or on the red spots on foot of the cliffs. This can be very annoying and I dont like, so I would use pathing blockers on the cliff, or reshpae so that there is no pathable terrain there anyway. Similarly the outside bases can be sieged from behind the forest by siege units in the orange area. It is not as bad as for the middle bases, but I would also add cliffs/deep water in these locations, as these areas will probably not see much action anyway.

WolfFarkas · Feb 28, 2018

mafe said:
Hi first of all, nice work. It would say this map is better suited for 6v6 or 3v3v3v3 than for FFA. Check out the 24 player FFA map contest which Hightac from the FFA-Mastersleague has annouced a few days ago. He is an expert and gave some hints about what is important for FFA maps.

-The itemdrops are ok. I'm not a fan of having a lvl 2 powerups as "main" item on a creepspot as it could be a tome of experience, but for team games/FFA it matters much less than for 1v1, so it is no big deal.
-The middle goldmines are are hard to defend, I doubt anyone will take them in a situation where the game isnt practically decided anyway (though I might be wrong for FFA).
-As people need zeppelins to reach some mines, you could make this more convenient by addng trees for wisps /buildabale terrain for a farm or orc shop near the golbin labs.
Then a few points best illustrated by a screenshot:
View attachment 293044
In the yellow areas there are paths for small units which probably shouldnt be there. In long games, people will get zeppelins to reach the mines, and there will be probably also be some siege units in the game. This might give players the idea to drop mortars etc on the cliffs behind the middle main bases (red line), or on the red spots on foot of the cliffs. This can be very annoying and I dont like, so I would use pathing blockers on the cliff, or reshpae so that there is no pathable terrain there anyway. Similarly the outside bases can be sieged from behind the forest by siege units in the orange area. It is not as bad as for the middle bases, but I would also add cliffs/deep water in these locations, as these areas will probably not see much action anyway.

Glad to see that you agree that this is better for teams battles than FFA, sometimes I feel I am jumping to the cold water alone,
thanks for reviewing too.

Rockstar356 · Feb 28, 2018

Hi guys
discuss the issues raised here
Ragnaros:
I do not think the orange player is surrounded, but I think he has a certain disadvantage with respect to the expansion.
As for changing it to 3vs3, it seems like a very good idea. It had not occurred to me and now that you mention it, I think the map is much better suited to 3v3.
With respect to the central mines, I also had my doubts, I was not sure if to put stronger hostile units or leave them equal to the rest of the mines, but removing them seems to be the best option.
The gold mines in the cliff are not a problem, mostly in ffa with mass of chimeras or wyrms of ice are easy targets, but if the map is going to change to 3v3 I will have to consider doing something else with those mines.
mafe:
If you will consider changing it to 6v6 or 3v3v3v3.
The item level 2 enhancer was only because the map was destined to ffa, if it was 1v1 it would not have done that.
I had my doubts about the mines in the center, your opinion helps me to say remove them.
With regard to the laboratories I forgot that point, it is true that humans put a farm to have it always available and the elves use wisp, so that will improve.
Regarding the image, I agree, the first point was an error that I had not noticed, those spaces behind the bases should not be there, and the second point, if it is convenient to add deep waters, to better protect the position of Players.

I thank you very much for your comments and the time they took to analyze the map, I learned what they said and I will take everything into account for next time.

WolfFarkas · Mar 1, 2018

According to mafe review, I decided to rate 4/5, there are things to fix but the map seems to be solid in the basics. And a plus because a 12 player melee map is not designed in one day at all.

deepstrasz · Mar 2, 2018

Please remove game messages and unnecessary triggers from the map as this should belong to the melee genre.
17000 gold is a bit too much for such a weak camp guarding the mine.
The ogre camps in the middle force you to engage them as they don't have a low camping range.

I hope this is a recreation and not an edit of Ice Crown.
You really have to fix what @mafe suggested though.

Awaiting Update.

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Neutral hostile units should start with full mana.

Approved.

Frozen Nightmare

Frozen Nightmare (Map)

nightelfbuilder

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Rockstar356

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WolfFarkas

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mafe

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Rockstar356

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deepstrasz

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