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The gay marriage debate thread

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ALRIGHT I'M STARTING TO RANT HERE - Point is, keep your opinion to yourself, you don't have to change it, but just tolerate other humans around you.
So I disagree with you and with the current laws in my country, and I should just not say anything?

Isn't that the point of having a free country with the freedom of speech?
Obviously threats or hateful speech isn't right, but to disagree and discuss is the basis of democracy.
 
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Isn't that the point of having a free country with the freedom of speech?
Obviously threats or hateful speech isn't right, but to disagree and discuss is the basis of democracy.

The Freedom of Speech has major loopholes:
1) They can punish you after-the-fact for saying whatever you said
2) They can schedule when you speak such that the message isn't heard
3) They charge you money to speak
4) They can label your speech as threatening or hateful to censor the message or discredit it

Also, compromise is the basis for democracy. However, no compromise can occur without discussion. No discussion can occur without speech.

//\\oo//\\

In the case of the gay-rights, anti-gays are labeling the pro-gay rights as hateful and intolerant of others for wanting to do something EVERYONE else does.
Saying "Gays must be allowed to marry" is apparently on the same level as the mentality of the people who performed 911.
Saying "Gays will go to hell because they are immoral and disgusting" is apparently on the same level as a typical religious family giving thanks before eating a major meal.

...and yet the gays are the intolerant and hateful ones. This is why I love the 'logic' presented by the extremely religious [extremists].

//\\^^//\\
 
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Isn't that the point of having a free country with the freedom of speech?
Obviously threats or hateful speech isn't right, but to disagree and discuss is the basis of democracy.

To allow basic Human Rights is also the basis of any democracy. Or have you concluded that having a democracy is all about discussions.

It all boils down to human rights. As long as any person engages in any activity that does not infringe on the fundamental rights of another, it is all right. I simply cannot fathom how, two consensual adults of the same gender, having a good time in each others company infringes on someone else's rights. When you are say that its wrong, you are stepping on their rights, not the other way round.

Secondly, by challenging a person's decision to chosen a partner (regardless of the gender\ race \ religion) you are denying them a very basic human right and that is the right to make their own choices. You will not decide whats good for a person and whats not. Its upto them.

Basically, how can you demand a right for a democratic opinion when you are not giving the other person his democratic rights?
 
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Man, being gay is something you can't control. It just happens to gay people. Try putting yourself into their situation, would you want people to discrimi-shit you? But yeah, sometimes I'm a bit afraid of them gays. I mean their are times that I walk at night and a group of gays are looking at me like they wanna do something. And one of my DotA mates almost got raped by a drunk gay in the market... It was night, the gay hugged him from behind, and would start touching him below, luckily he got away by using his elbow. I'm sure he's not just joking 'cause from the day he told us the story, he's got like phobic to gays.
 
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It was night, the gay hugged him from behind, and would start touching him below
That person was a sexual offender, a pervert, not just a Gay per se.
There can be such people in any gender. Including straight.

I mean their are times that I walk at night and a group of gays are looking at me like they wanna do something.
Utterly ridiculous! How do you even know those people are Gays? They can be street burglars for that matter or perhaps you are just a paranoid lil kid.

btw Do you live in Bangkok?
 
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I simply cannot fathom how, two consensual adults of the same gender, having a good time in each others company infringes on someone else's rights. When you are say that its wrong, you are stepping on their rights, not the other way round.
That's not the argument at all. Enjoying your friend's company is a lot different than a right to marry that person.

Secondly, by challenging a person's decision to chosen a partner (regardless of the gender\ race \ religion) you are denying them a very basic human right and that is the right to make their own choices. You will not decide whats good for a person and whats not. Its upto them.
Then why is polygamy illegal still?

Also show me this basic human right to "choice"? We can't have a right "to make our own choices." Rights and laws are there to keep people from making choices that are detrimental or harmful to society.

Here:

http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/

18 and 19 are of particular note.

Basically, how can you demand a right for a democratic opinion when you are not giving the other person his democratic rights?
We are discussing what rights we should have. If you want to argue that I do not have a right to speech, then fine, we can argue that. To say that if I want my right to speech, I can't speak out against other rights I disagree with is contradictory.
 
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That person was a sexual offender, a pervert, not just a Gay per se.
There can be such people in any gender. Including straight.

Nope, the guy's a gay. We actually know the gay. He's a worker in the market. His body is fat/musculine but he's gay.

Utterly ridiculous! How do you even know those people are Gays? They can be street burglars for that matter or perhaps you are just a paranoid lil kid.

btw Do you live in Bangkok?

Man, before you talk like tha' confirm first, I'm not a paranoid kid... So you mean street burglars have shoulder long hair, wears mini skirts, and talks like girl-wannabes?

I don't live in Bangkok

And why does it seem like you're overprotecting gays? Ooolala
 
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@karassu: He didn't say that the guy wasn't gay, he said that the guy is a gay sex offender. *facepalm*
 
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It's not a gay fact actually, it's also common among men to harass women sexually. My point was that you didn't understand what he posted.
 
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Okay okay, pussy cat. I'm gonna repost it.

That person was a sexual offender, a pervert, not just a Gay per se.
There can be such people in any gender. Including straight.

Of course I know that, but still...

Utterly ridiculous! How do you even know those people are Gays? They can be street burglars for that matter or perhaps you are just a paranoid lil kid.

btw Do you live in Bangkok?

Man, before you talk like tha' confirm first, I'm not a paranoid kid... So you mean street burglars have shoulder long hair, wears mini skirts, and talks like girl-wannabes?

I don't live in Bangkok

And why does it seem like you're overprotecting gays? Ooolala
 
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That's not the argument at all. Enjoying your friend's company is a lot different than a right to marry that person.
So you are saying that same gendered people have a right to have sex but can't marry?

Then why is polygamy illegal still?
So many other things are illegal, citing them hardly helps in this argument.
Polygamy and Gay marriage are illegal, yes but in your parts, your country, not worldwide. Just because it is illegal where you live does not mean it is wrong or illegal. Thats just your bigoted government and officials. Don't make it sound like a thumb rule. Mormons practice polygamy and their women don't scream slavery and sex.

Also show me this basic human right to "choice"? We can't have a right "to make our own choices." Rights and laws are there to keep people from making choices that are detrimental or harmful to society.
So in other words you are saying:
1. Governments and religious figures will decide what is good for us and what is not.
2. Being Gay is a threat to society. I seriously don't get that.

http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/

18 and 19 are of particular note.
The entire list agrees to Gay rights. Its simple Gilles. Gays are also humans and as much entitled to those rights as you are, as I am. What are you saying.

If you want to argue that I do not have a right to speech, then fine, we can argue that. To say that if I want my right to speech, I can't speak out against other rights I disagree with is contradictory.
Lets not make it all about you Gilles. I was just giving a general statement. What I meant was that if you are not even realizing a persons right to be, to exist as a functioning member of the society, what is the basis of the argument then?
 
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Okay okay, pussy cat. I'm gonna repost it.

That person was a sexual offender, a pervert, not just a Gay per se.
There can be such people in any gender. Including straight.

Of course I know that, but still...

Utterly ridiculous! How do you even know those people are Gays? They can be street burglars for that matter or perhaps you are just a paranoid lil kid.

btw Do you live in Bangkok?

Man, before you talk like tha' confirm first, I'm not a paranoid kid... So you mean street burglars have shoulder long hair, wears mini skirts, and talks like girl-wannabes?

I don't live in Bangkok

And why does it seem like you're overprotecting gays? Ooolala

EDIT:
Ouch, sorry. Double posted, a bit delay on the post button. (I'm downloading something hehe) At least my posts came with other comments between them so I'll just edit this one.
 
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^ I second that.

Man, before you talk like tha' confirm first, I'm not a paranoid kid... So you mean street burglars have shoulder long hair, wears mini skirts, and talks like girl-wannabes?

Plot twist: not every gay person behaves like that.
 
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Also show me this basic human right to "choice"? We can't have a right "to make our own choices." Rights and laws are there to keep people from making choices that are detrimental or harmful to society.

Here:

http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/

I'm starting to think you're just trolling the shit out of everyone.
First you bring up terms such as "free country" to get your point about the freedom of speech across, yet living in a free country entitles you to the freedom of doing ANYTHING you want (not just the freedom of speech), as long as it is within the borders of the law (that doesn't mean that the law is always right, for example; while gay marriage may be illegal in your country (?), it's legal in mine, and many others). Especially the freedom of making your own choices, such as the freedom to choose your own future (schools etc), the freedom to practice any religion, and the freedom to have any sexual orientation. If your government forbids any of these choices, you do NOT live in a free country.
Then you bring up the Universal Declaration of Human Rights... Most of these articles describe how anyone is basically entitled to do what everyone else can (Article 16 literally states how any adult person has the right to marriage).
 

Rui

Rui

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(...) Do not voice your opinion on some matter when you're against it.
(...) Point is, keep your opinion to yourself, you don't have to change it, but just tolerate other humans around you.
:goblin_jawdrop: This is wrong for so many reasons... Figured you'd hold some screwed up thinking, given certain actions of yours. It's like you're denying the role of reasoning in morality.

The Freedom of Speech has major loopholes:
1) They can punish you after-the-fact for saying whatever you said
2) They can schedule when you speak such that the message isn't heard
3) They charge you money to speak
4) They can label your speech as threatening or hateful to censor the message or discredit it
Opinions change. Fortunately.

Also, compromise is the basis for democracy. However, no compromise can occur without discussion. No discussion can occur without speech.
(...)
It can, if you gesture. :ogre_hurrhurr:
 
This is wrong for so many reasons.
Okay I admit, that was phrased really badly. (And it's probably a bad view either way, whatever I was trying to say there)
Basically I'd rather say that some comments/opinions shouldn't be stated on sensitive matters, unless they are formulated in a mostly non-offensive way and actually justified. I dunno, I wrote the first post late at night, it does sound stupid. I apologize! Teehee~

Also
Figured you'd hold some screwed up thinking, given certain actions of yours.
What... ?
 
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So you are saying that same gendered people have a right to have sex but can't marry?
Who would argue that same gendered people can't legally have sex? I'd think that it is obvious that the issue is marriage. Look at the thread title.

So in other words you are saying:
1. Governments and religious figures will decide what is good for us and what is not.
2. Being Gay is a threat to society. I seriously don't get that.
I didn't say either of those things. Although, yes, governments should make laws that help people do what is good for them and others. Law is educational as well as a means of keeping peace.

Also, once again, being gay in and of itself isn't the issue. This thread is titled "gay marriage." That's the topic.

What I meant was that if you are not even realizing a persons right to be, to exist as a functioning member of the society, what is the basis of the argument then?
Where are you getting this? You whole post is presumptuous throughout.


gilles, care to sum up why you don't support gay marriage? it's incredibly hard to respond to you when your posts are reactionary and attack only little parts of others' posts, subsequently creating semi-OT tangential conversations.
That's on purpose. : P
I'm simply trying to point out flaws in arguments. If I were better at it I would be unbiased in my responses, but I suck at stopping my own opinions influence my posts.



@chr2: I agree with you. However NKnight001's argument was open to make the choice to do anything. When you discuss laws and rights, saying that "people have the right to make their own choices" is ridiculous. People have the right to make choices within the law, and since we are discussing what is lawful, the argument is invalid.

I hope that makes sense.

Also for clarification, since you all seem keen to know, gay marriage is legal in my country.
 
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Who would argue that same gendered people can't legally have sex? I'd think that it is obvious that the issue is marriage. Look at the thread title.
Yes it is obvious and I am not blind. If they have the right to have sex then why can't they legally marry? That is the question here.

I didn't say either of those things. Although, yes, governments should make laws that help people do what is good for them and others.

We can't have a right "to make our own choices." Rights and laws are there to keep people from making choices that are detrimental or harmful to society.
Ha!

Also, once again, being gay in and of itself isn't the issue. This thread is titled "gay marriage." That's the topic.
Dumbest comment in this thread, if being isn't an issue then why gay marriage is? Why does this thread exists in the first place?


However NKnight001's argument was open to make the choice to do anything.

As long as any person engages in any activity that does not infringe on the fundamental rights of another, it is all right.
LIAR!


Also for clarification, since you all seem keen to know, gay marriage is legal in my country.
So I disagree with you and with the current laws in my country, and I should just not say anything?
A not so subtle U-turn.

Where are you getting this? You whole post is presumptuous throughout.
All evidence is above, one only needs to take a gander.

I hope that makes sense.
Does not. I saw your comments in the terrain section and thought of you as a very likeable person, not as someone who would lie just to prove that he is right. Sheesh! I am outta here!
 
Any smart woman would know that is a bad decision and should marry a woman. Especially with this current age definitely.
Such a dumb claim.So all the smart woman are lesbian?Smart = being lesbian.
There's plenty of famous smart woman who are married to a man.And they are smarter than you for sure.

Don't be so scared, its not a bad or evil thing. Your the bad people in reality. If this was about ten years ago then you'd be saying this stuff near the same about darker colored humans.
10 years ago?You mean in 2004?No I didn't said bad stuff about "darker colored people" at that time.And why do you associate not being pro gay with racism?There's as much black people who are not pro gays.

And you talk about me being scared or insecure but I'm not the one claiming to be an "opressed" minority.Looks like you're projecting on me your own anxiety.
 
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NKnight001, I'm sorry that you feel this way. This is supposed to be a friendly debate, and I've tried to keep it as such, but obviously I've either not done a very good job, or you're a little too invested in this thread.

And why do you associate not being pro gay with racism?
This is the only thing that makes any sense in your post. This is a good point, but then you completely destroy it right after with more nonsense.

To add to this point, there's a huge difference between race and sexual preference. Race is a physical trait that one does not choose, and that's it. Sexual preference, while not necessarily chosen by the individual, how they act upon their desires is a choice. Comparing someone who is against gay marriage and someone who is racist is completely unfair and illogical.

And you talk about me being scared or insecure but I'm not the one claiming to be an "opressed" minority.Looks like you're projecting on me your own anxiety.
What? I don't even... what?
 
Such a dumb claim.So all the smart woman are lesbian?Smart = being lesbian.
There's plenty of famous smart woman who are married to a man.And they are smarter than you for sure.

*That was sarcasm, sorry I forgot my sarcasm sign.*

10 years ago?You mean in 2004?No I didn't said bad stuff about "darker colored people" at that time.And why do you associate not being pro gay with racism?There's as much black people who are not pro gays.

*You didn't need too, it's the same thing... Hate and the unknown for you. I don't understand "And why do you associate not being pro gay with racism?There's as much black people who are not pro gays.". Sorry, just don't see what your trying to say there.*

And you talk about me being scared or insecure but I'm not the one claiming to be an "opressed" minority.Looks like you're projecting on me your own anxiety.

Well you like others fear what you don't understand and your proving it in that post of yours. Nope not projecting anything either.

NKnight001, I'm sorry that you feel this way. This is supposed to be a friendly debate, and I've tried to keep it as such, but obviously I've either not done a very good job, or you're a little too invested in this thread.

*Your not doing a very good job, sorry I know you weren't talking to me however it seems like you wanted someone to point it out.*

This is the only thing that makes any sense in your post. This is a good point, but then you completely destroy it right after with more nonsense.

*Agreed he did.*

To add to this point, there's a huge difference between race and sexual preference. Race is a physical trait that one does not choose, and that's it. Sexual preference, while not necessarily chosen by the individual, how they act upon their desires is a choice. Comparing someone who is against gay marriage and someone who is racist is completely unfair and illogical.

*Nah there isn't much of a difference besides new ways to hate one another when we're all Humans on a little puny planet not even making it past the outer atmosphere. Race might be a physical trait however that doesn't make you anything different then Human. Actually you can choose your children's genetics with technology nowadays I am pretty sure even though it's illegal. Nope... not really. Sexual choice comes in three ways to humans, we either are stuck with being born gay or we get choices or the country/people chose for you. Usually the third one since no country is free yet and likely never will be. Sure they got their own choices to how they act upon their desires but they have to be ready to face people like you and worst. Nope it isn't even close to being unfair and illogical. Both have a special word to use against them for insults, both have difficult living even still in a lot of places especially America. How does it benefit you to hate someone just because your scared of it and/or don't understand it? To be against something is to fear it or don't understand it. Humanity 101.*


What? I don't even... what?

Well I think that's it for me, this thread is suffering from extreme stupidity. It even lured me here. :grin:

I replied to you both in the quotes, hopefully it wasn't offensive however I don't know because we're on different sections of intelligence and understanding. It wasn't my intention to offend, only to explain.
 
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this thread is suffering from extreme stupidity.
we're on different sections of intelligence and understanding.
It wasn't my intention to offend, only to explain.
I'm not offended, but you do see how this is pretty hilarious, right? :p

You're throwing around the classic yoda "fear leads to hate", but I've never actually stated my stance on gay marriage or homosexuality so I don't know how you can assume to know what I hate or fear. Also I'm tired of people using that line. It doesn't really make a point, you're just accusing people of things.
 
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I'm not offended, but I you do see how this is pretty hilarious, right? :p

You're throwing around the classic yoda "fear leads to hate", but I've never actually stated my stance on gay marriage or homosexuality so I don't know how you can assume to know what I hate or fear. Also I'm tired of people using that line. It doesn't really make a point, you're just accusing people of things.


Yeah. =P

Nah not throwing it around, just stating it out there because well it is true for a lot of people even in here. You hinted to your stance actually. I never assume... only presume. English. =)

Nope not accusing anyone, your revealing it yourself. If you don't fear or scare it, then why be against it? Just let them get the rights they deserve as humans to love one another. I am pretty sure it's hard to live in America if you don't make much money.
 
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You don't have to fear something to be against it.

What does money have to do with anything?
 
Well I think that's it for me, this thread is suffering from extreme stupidity. It even lured me here. :grin:

I replied to you both in the quotes, hopefully it wasn't offensive however I don't know because we're on different sections of intelligence and understanding. It wasn't my intention to offend, only to explain.
You still didn't explained your point about this :
If this was about ten years ago then you'd be saying this stuff near the same about darker colored humans.
Why ten years ago?Why darker colored people?
You say dumb stuff then complain about stupidity of the forum and claim that you are on a different level of intelligence in a pedant way.That's the trademark of people who are not aware of their own ignorance.
You don't proclaim the obvious.If you need proclaim you're intelligent that means you're not.
 
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My teacher one said to my gay classmates..

"If all of you gays want to marry a man someday you need to have an income first and have money. Because mostly man who loves a gay.. love's a gay only because of money."

I am not judging the man who love gays but this what i am seeing to those man and gay relationship.


Gay Marriage will become more popular in the future because more and more men become gays because of the chemicals which increase female hormones inside of the men. Mostly this chemicals can be get by eating chickens.

Let them do what they want. But just don't do sex.

Because even though gay and man are married. Doing sex is still immoral. But well most people nowadays think that being an immoral is normal but i am not on those people.


But i think being a gay is an emotional disorder. Man are naturally born to think like a Man unless there is a external factor that affects the person emotion and in order to survive that external factor they need to act like gay.

For example. If a son live his whole life with his mother, and no father figure to watch around, he will think that its good to do feminine things like his mother. Or peer pressure.

But believe it or not. GAYS STILL NEED A LOVE FROM A WOMEN. The care that a women can give to a man/gay is better. It's just that gays need to find a women who can love their feminine personality.
 
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I believe sexual orientation is something that somebody is born with. It is then their choice to persue this sexual orientation into a straight or gay/lesbian relationship (Just thought I'd first clarify the difference between sexual orientation and a sexual relationship because they are not the same!)

A person will struggle to commit to a relationship on the contrary to his sexual orientation, often feeling unsatisfied and depressed. Some people are born with this gay sexual orientation, just as some people are born with black or white skin. It is therefore disgustingly wrong to discriminate or hate somebody simply because they are gay just as it is downright unacceptable for me to make fun of somebody's skin colour. I have nothing wrong with gay people. There is nothing wrong with you.

However I feel gay marriage should not be legalized. Read on before commenting! Marriage, by definition, is "A formal union of a man and a woman". It is derived from the Bible. Countries/States/etc has chosen to adopt this word into their law. They chose to adopt a biblical word as law! Therefore it is an insult to many Christians to legalize gay marriage because it violates their beliefs. So I propose a new word is constructed to redefine what we know as "Marriage" so that it incorporates gay relationships into the equation. Just as people are beginning to reference people's husbands or wives as "partners", we should refer to "Marriage" as a new word.

We don't have to revolve our solutions around a religion. We can work around them. Christians can retain their traditional "Marriage" whereas a conventional Marriage (new word) for non-christian people with any type of sexual relationship can be legally together.

This is my opinion from a biological and legal standpoint. Societies' acceptance and interaction with gay/lesbian people is an entirely different topic.
 
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My teacher one said to my gay classmates..

"If all of you gays want to marry a man someday you need to have an income first and have money. Because mostly man who loves a gay.. love's a gay only because of money."

I am not judging the man who love gays but this what i am seeing to those man and gay relationship.

This is just so... twisted. Where the heck are you seeing this? I'll say it again; homo sexuals are just as capable of loving as anyone else. At the same time, "gold diggers" exist in hetero sexual relationships as well.

Gay Marriage will become more popular in the future because more and more men become gays because of the chemicals which increase female hormones inside of the men. Mostly this chemicals can be get by eating chickens.

Right... Next you're going to tell me that pork makes your skin black.

Let them do what they want. But just don't do sex.

Because even though gay and man are married. Doing sex is still immoral. But well most people nowadays think that being an immoral is normal but i am not on those people.

Who are you to decide what's moral and what's immoral? Those people may not consider it immoral in the first place..

But i think being a gay is an emotional disorder. Man are naturally born to think like a Man unless there is a external factor that affects the person emotion and in order to survive that external factor they need to act like gay.

For example. If a son live his whole life with his mother, and no father figure to watch around, he will think that its good to do feminine things like his mother. Or peer pressure.

Again, where are you getting all of this from? As a young child, my parents went through a divorce, resulting in me being raised almost entirely by my mother. Still, I did not turn out gay. I might be more open-minded than certain others in this thread, but this was more due to who my mother is as a person, than the fact the she raised me alone.
Also, in a world striving for gender equality, there shouldn't be anything known as "doing feminine things". Observing my mother taught me how to make food, how to clean the house, how to do the dishes etc. If this is what you consider "feminine things", you're gonna have a bad time living on your own.

But believe it or not. GAYS STILL NEED A LOVE FROM A WOMEN. The care that a women can give to a man/gay is better. It's just that gays need to find a women who can love their feminine personality.

I don't believe it. You speak as if out of experience, yet it seems like you've never even met a gay individual. While you, and I, and many others might feel that a woman's care is better, you just need to deal with the fact that not everyone feels that way.

Seriously though, are you trolling us? It's not that I think everyone who disagrees with me is a troll, it's just that this might be the most uneducated post I've ever seen. With your "scientific" background for homosexuality, you seem to completely neglect the fact that lesbians are gay as well. Do they eat too little chicken? Maybe too much fish? :ogre_hurrhurr:
Go outside, meet people, and see for yourself that not everything is how your teacher sees it.

@Radicool: While I agree with much of what you said, I will have to disagree with you on one thing. Everyone should have the right to marriage. Marriage does not originate from the Bible. It's much more ancient than that, and Christianity just nicked the idea. Sure, modern society marriage might be based on the Christian ritual, but just as the early Christians adopted previously existing rituals and traditions into their religion, so is our society adopting these traditions into our culture (Christmas (known as Jol, or Yule, before Christianity) is hardly affiliated with chistianity anymore, and marriage is considered a cultural ritual by many). Marriage existed before Christianity, and it will still exist long after Christianity is gone.
Also, and more importantly, the main problem is that gays might have watched their parents/friends/whatever getting married in the traditional way. Not allowing a specific group of people to engage in otherwise socially accepted activities is straight up discrimination. How is this any different from the Apartheid?

TL;DR Marriage and religion should be separated.
 
However I feel gay marriage should not be legalized. Read on before commenting! Marriage, by definition, is "A formal union of a man and a woman". It is derived from the Bible. Countries/States/etc has chosen to adopt this word into their law. They chose to adopt a biblical word as law! Therefore it is an insult to many Christians to legalize gay marriage because it violates their beliefs. So I propose a new word is constructed to redefine what we know as "Marriage" so that it incorporates gay relationships into the equation. Just as people are beginning to reference people's husbands or wives as "partners", we should refer to "Marriage" as a new word.

We don't have to revolve our solutions around a religion. We can work around them. Christians can retain their traditional "Marriage" whereas a conventional Marriage (new word) for non-christian people with any type of sexual relationship can be legally together.

This is my opinion from a biological and legal standpoint. Societies' acceptance and interaction with gay/lesbian people is an entirely different topic.
we've gone through this in the start of this thread before. basically, no marriage is not specific to christianity only (nor did it originate there), and even if it was, clearly it's transcended any religious parameters and has become a widespread social convention. 'marriage' happens between muslims, hindus, athiests, and voodoos; the word isn't christian and it certainly doesn't only belong to christians. your opinion is wrong.

TL;DR Marriage and religion should be separated.
they ARE separated. christians who use their religion as an argument are dumb.
 
My teacher one said to my gay classmates..

"If all of you gays want to marry a man someday you need to have an income first and have money. Because mostly man who loves a gay.. love's a gay only because of money."

I am not judging the man who love gays but this what i am seeing to those man and gay relationship.


Gay Marriage will become more popular in the future because more and more men become gays because of the chemicals which increase female hormones inside of the men. Mostly this chemicals can be get by eating chickens.

Let them do what they want. But just don't do sex.

Because even though gay and man are married. Doing sex is still immoral. But well most people nowadays think that being an immoral is normal but i am not on those people.


But i think being a gay is an emotional disorder. Man are naturally born to think like a Man unless there is a external factor that affects the person emotion and in order to survive that external factor they need to act like gay.

For example. If a son live his whole life with his mother, and no father figure to watch around, he will think that its good to do feminine things like his mother. Or peer pressure.

But believe it or not. GAYS STILL NEED A LOVE FROM A WOMEN. The care that a women can give to a man/gay is better. It's just that gays need to find a women who can love their feminine personality.

Please don't promote your beliefs as the absolute truth, when what you say is simply recycling what you've been told without even filtering it out.
Your contradictions are unbearable and hold no argumentation which makes me think that you have not reached a maturity level to philosophize on notions, beliefs and others' mental states. On the first hand, you say that they should be able to do what they want and on the other hand you exclude the physical consummation.

You were told this by others: you have your own ethical system and others have their own. Some action that looks immoral to you does not necessarily look immoral to somebody else (mainly why we have this debate).

You lack proper definitions in what you say, because "think like a man" makes no sense, unless you elaborate on the matter. No one thinks the exact way someone else does. You are trying to hype your opinion by globalizing behaviors and thoughts, so as to backup your speculation of what's normal and what's not. In fact, I will not find it weird if you conjure up some fake statistical percentages to make your point.

The care one man receives from a woman is better than what? Than a male's? So you are automatically underrating a father's figure as well - because care does not only refer to romance.

Finally, having seen you using the same repetitive "argument" that homosexuals approach other homosexuals for money is only something you witness in your culture. A homosexual is not defined as someone lusting after someone else's property, because in an analogous sense, the traditional dictation to women to marry someone self-sustained would mean that being straight equals to being a gold-digger.
 
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So you think a baby is sexualy oriented?

Definitely not, but their future sexual orientation is possibly decided before birth. "Since they were born" is an expression referring to their genetic makeup which is decided of course before birth when the sperm and ova fuse, so to speak. Sexual orientation doesn't really cross the mind of a person until they hit puberty, where they begin to develop their sex organs and their minds begin to go through many changes. There are many traits such as hair colour, skin colour, bone structure, hormone levels, etc that are heavily affected by the person's genes. This is widely accepted as scientific fact. Is sexual orientation genetic? I can't say. More research is needed.

Sexual Orientation Genetic or Influenced?

However, your point has questioned my opinion. I can't say for sure that a person's sexual orientation is decided before birth or whether their sexual orientation is something that develops over their lifetime. Perhaps it is a combination of the two? I follow the scientific evidence, and quite frankly it's lacking at the moment. That's why nobody here is sure which way it is. Everybody's words here on sexual orientation is just opinion or based on scientific theory in which there is not sufficient evidence and if they want to argue otherwise, please show me some creditable scientific proof. I'm all ears.

Is there such thing as the "gay gene" which determines sexual orientation, or is a sexual orientation developed through a person's lifetime. Science has proven the brain goes through the greatest changes during adolescence and teenage years. So it is popularly theorized that what a baby/child/teenager sees, hears and does affects the person he will become. Does seeing two women kiss confuse a child? Could it be as simple as hearing the Bee Gees sing (male band who sings with a woman like voice). Maybe the child accidently watched a porno that their parents left on and only saw the female touching herself and that affected their sexual preference. Maybe they saw their mum naked around the home a couple of times but never saw their dad naked? Who knows. None of this is proven. It's just a guessing game.

What about the Biology?

What I do know for sure is that there are many gay sexually orientated people who have tried liking women but it hasn't worked for them. They want to have a wife and kids but simply cannot because it's hard to commit to a relationship with no satisfying "sex life". Let me introduce some biology. I like to reference Maslow's hierarchy of needs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

Sex is a fundamental part of a human's physiological needs. Furthermore, relationship intimacy is third on a human's list of needs which is argueably hard to achieve if you are not attracted to the sex you are trying to perform it on and hence the person has likely not met their sexual needs properly. These are our needs as humans, and scientifically accepted. (don't agree? Please debate with facts not emotions, I'm all ears).

Surely Sexual Orientation can be Changed? You Should beable to Answer this Yourself

So I must ask of you. How does a male for example with a gay sexual orientation have proper sex and intimacy with a female? In my opinion it is very hard. This is where the problem lies. If you can't understand that simple concept, let me give you a scenario to consider:

"Males and females being together is unnatural and socially deemed wrong. If you have sex with the opposite gender, you will be shamed upon by society and god himself. Now you, as a male, must have sex with another male, share love with another male, and live a life with this male."

Think about what this scenario is asking of you. I want you to imagine how hard it would be to live an entire life with somebody you are not attracted to. Are you grossed out by the idea of having a relationship like that with the same sex? Well now you know what it feels like for gay people trying to "work with" the opposite sex. I don't think sexual orientation can be changed. Not properly anyway.

Note: This scenario is just to provide perspective, nothing else.
 
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ok guys i am not trolling.. I AM NOT TROLLING...

All of those things are said by my teachers!... and none of it is about my religion.

All of them is based on their experiences and i just want to share it. SO DON'T RAGE AT ME LOL!

My rel. ed teacher once said...

She has a gay friend. Who have relationship with boys. Although the pleasure of that relationship is ok.. ofcourse with sex.. but from his mouth he said "I feel like although I am a gay I still need someone to love me forever and who I am not just because I have money", I wish someday I can have a wife."..

This is true..

So my opinion is not targeting all gays.. but some gays.
 
my uncle barnaby worthington once said...

he fucks his wife only because she is rich, and that "sometimes i just want a nice slab of tender manmeat, because that is the juiciest there is. i wish someday ryan gosling would pick me up and harpoon me whilst reading aloud fabio lanzoni's 'lovestorm'"..

this is true.. i mean it's based on his experiences so it has to be!

of course i'm not targetting "all straights", no i've rationally chosen to share that select anecdote of an anecdote with no prejudicial motive, no intention of apophasis, and certainly not being deliberately selective in regards to the content/connotation of the tale
 
Level 22
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The reason I commented he/she was gossiping is because that teacher of yours was disclosing private matters to his/her students. I can't believe it he was his/her friend...
 
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Seeing as some of you believe that sexual orientation can be changed, please, try your very best to do so. ;)

Good luck.
 
ghost is right, this thread is awful. I wish I had just left it alone.
It seems from your last two quotes of my posts that your logic is fragile and your understanding of words is questionable.Because I'm better at understanding things I will understand it for you and explain you what his claim means.
He said :
I believe sexual orientation is something that somebody is born with.
It means people are born with sexual orientation.
People are born as baby.
Therefore baby is born with sexual orientation.
Therefore baby is sexualy oriented.

Pretty simple reasoning.Sorry for understanding things for what they mean and not imagining some mysthical hidden meaning behind it.If it's not what he meant then he should formulate it correctly.

Now instead of quoting my post again just to make abitrary claim "It make no sense hurr!", "It's terrible!" like a spectator who just thumb up or thumb down.
Ask what you don't understand and what you think doesn't make sense.

Definitely not, but their future sexual orientation is possibly decided before birth. "Since they were born" is an expression referring to their genetic makeup which is decided of course before birth when the sperm and ova fuse, so to speak. Sexual orientation doesn't really cross the mind of a person until they hit puberty, where they begin to develop their sex organs and their minds begin to go through many changes. There are many traits such as hair colour, skin colour, bone structure, hormone levels, etc that are heavily affected by the person's genes. This is widely accepted as scientific fact. Is sexual orientation genetic? I can't say. More research is needed.

Sexual Orientation Genetic or Influenced?

However, your point has questioned my opinion. I can't say for sure that a person's sexual orientation is decided before birth or whether their sexual orientation is something that develops over their lifetime. Perhaps it is a combination of the two? I follow the scientific evidence, and quite frankly it's lacking at the moment. That's why nobody here is sure which way it is. Everybody's words here on sexual orientation is just opinion or based on scientific theory in which there is not sufficient evidence and if they want to argue otherwise, please show me some creditable scientific proof. I'm all ears.

Is there such thing as the "gay gene" which determines sexual orientation, or is a sexual orientation developed through a person's lifetime. Science has proven the brain goes through the greatest changes during adolescence and teenage years.
I think you don't know how genes work.To transmit genes to future generation a man must have sex with a woman in order to make a child that have your genes.If there was such thing as gay gene it would have been self extinct since it would lead its population to inability to transmit genes or make childs.
Sexual orientation is not genetic it's neurologic.
So it is popularly theorized that what a baby/child/teenager sees, hears and does affects the person he will become. Does seeing two women kiss confuse a child? Could it be as simple as hearing the Bee Gees sing (male band who sings with a woman like voice). Maybe the child accidently watched a porno that their parents left on and only saw the female touching herself and that affected their sexual preference. Maybe they saw their mum naked around the home a couple of times but never saw their dad naked? Who knows. None of this is proven. It's just a guessing game.
Such pedant mumbo jumbo with question marks.What you call a "popularized theory" and "guessing game" is not a theory it's a fact.These are called mirror neurons.Everything that happen to someone is unconsciously considered as it happened to self in order to create empathy negative or positive.That's why you are disgusted when you see someone eating shit although you are not the one eating it.That's why you don't let your kids watch porn and don't go naked around them.
 
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It means people are born with sexual orientation.
People are born as baby.
Therefore baby is born with sexual orientation.
Therefore baby is sexualy oriented.

Pretty simple reasoning.Sorry for understanding things for what they mean and not imagining some mysthical hidden meaning behind it.If it's not what he meant then he should formulate it correctly.

Now instead of quoting my post again just to make abitrary claim "It make no sense hurr!", "It's terrible!" like a spectator who just thumb up or thumb down.
Ask what you don't understand and what you think doesn't make sense.

Uh, I'm 90% sure the saying "born with X" usually means that it's in their genes and not a voluntary choice. Doesn't mean the guy's gonna ogle hot guys as a baby. ;P
edit: Oh, you're denying his genes argument and saying it's neurologic in your second post.
 
@Callahan
i was under the impression that this was the 'gay marriage' thread, not 'where do gays come from'. the current conversation is off-topic and irrelevant, though i'm not too surprised you've distorted the topic to continue your glorious campaign of prejudice and misinformation. however, i will opt to indulge you on your little redirection of the discussion.

I think you don't know how genes work.To transmit genes to future generation a man must have sex with a woman in order to make a child that have your genes.If there was such thing as gay gene it would have been self extinct since it would lead its population to inability to transmit genes or make childs.
firstly, recessive genes means consecutive generations do not necessarily inherit the same characteristics. secondly, i don't think it'd be hard to swallow that there have been and still are some gay men that remained 'in the closet' due to fear of societal marginalisation or simply confusion from a lack of knowledge/education on homosexuality, leading to perhaps heterosexual relationships where they father a child. thirdly, sexuality may not arise from a 'gay gene', but from any number of mutations which could alter neurological function, hormonal imbalances, or other factors.
Sexual orientation is not genetic it's neurologic.
any definitive proof?
mirror neurons
just because they exist doesn't mean that they affect or are a sole determinant of sexual orientation. unless... you have some definitive proof you'd like to share with us.

fact is no one is sure of what causes homosexuality, and furthermore proving that gays are gay because they saw dicks when they were younger still doesn't hold any bearing on the legalisation of gay marriage. lets get back on topic, especially considering the current discussion will lead to nowhere as people much smarter than us, and much much smarter than callahan, have yet to conclude on the causes of homosexuality.
 
@Callahan
i was under the impression that this was the 'gay marriage' thread, not 'where do gays come from'. the current conversation is off-topic and irrelevant, though i'm not too surprised you've distorted the topic to continue your glorious campaign of prejudice and misinformation. however, i will opt to indulge you on your little redirection of the discussion.
I'm not the one who started the discussion about gene.Again you accuse me of something other people did because it suit you but never proved I'm wrong.If you'd read the post I replied and not just my reply you would know it.
firstly, recessive genes means consecutive generations do not necessarily inherit the same characteristics. secondly, i don't think it'd be hard to swallow that there have been and still are some gay men that remained 'in the closet' due to fear of societal marginalisation or simply confusion from a lack of knowledge/education on homosexuality, leading to perhaps heterosexual relationships where they father a child. thirdly, sexuality may not arise from a 'gay gene', but from any number of mutations which could alter neurological function, hormonal imbalances, or other factors.
Humanity exist from much longer that modern society.If there was a gay gene it would be extinct from natural selection during prehistory and there was no such thing as closet and societal marginalisation at that time.
If it was genetic the trend could only decline overtime and not suddenly raise in 2014.Also recessive gene you don't know how it works.In order to be expressed you need 2 allele of that recessive gene which would means more gay gene transmission through non-gay relationship.
And I think you don't know what mutation means.Mutation is modification of genes so mutation is still genetics.Mutation happen everyday it cause cancer not gay sexual orientation.It's not like X-men movie you know.

any definitive proof?
Because any cognitive activities sexual or not are triggered by neurons.And that it is very unlikely to be genetics for reason I mentionned above.

just because they exist doesn't mean that they affect or are a sole determinant of sexual orientation. unless... you have some definitive proof you'd like to share with us.
Again if you'd read the post I replied and not just me you'd know that I didn't mentionned mirror neurons to explain homosexuality but to reply to his question about how surrounding behavior could influence individuals.And you wouldn't ask me to prove something I didn't said.
You wasted your time with imaginary arguement.
You keep affirming that you are smarter than me but never prove it and instead keep proving the opposite.You know it's not because you affirm something that it's true.
Looks like so far the only defense of pro gay is to claim every non pro gay are dumb uneducated to discredit valid reasoning.Debating is so easy when you have stereotypes on your side.Asking people to prove their point does not require to be smart.
I'm the one in position requiring to be smart.
 
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