Warcraft next gen or not?

[The_wand_mirror]

Well its a little odd ..

Warcraft aint totaly a next gen graphic game i know but i mean a next gen of games,every project i see ( the good ones ) have remarkable terrain and also they are for the multiplayer ..

But when all these games are coming? i see so much thingies with promises and so much guys trying to beat things like 'DOTA' and replace it with another map which would kinda already mean a next gen

But there are almost no ideas left anymore are there? there always will be ideas offcourse but we have like 200 the same td's and only 20 original td's that did something unique..

Thats what should happen acctualy .. every map should have something unique that makes it different from the others.. not some little unique feature but a pretty average to big feature which makes the so great...

Now i ask you,are the players on b.net ( and the map-makers ) ready to start a kind of next-gen? kick DOTA out and make another uber-popular map .. all loaps are replaced by 'Operators real life rpg' ( hehe i aint creditting u operator xD ) and everything just.. ye .. eh changes..?

 

[operator]

All of the maps shall be replaced by Operator's Real Life RPG

 

[Dr Super Good]

Im supprised people do not gang together and try and make a Wc4.
But due to copy right it would have to be called something different and also feature no wc3 trademarks (like flying sheep).

Then whats the point of making a Wc4 but it is not even going to be called warcraft and feature nothing warcrafty?. . . You probably are asking.
Wc4 is a term people use to represent mostly a even better map making tool with up to date graffics although some think of it as just a melee improvement but most players do not care about that.

Imagine if you could make multiplayer rpgs going over many maps with up to 30 players? That would be a next generation WC map.

But sadly the maps are limated due to the game being dated and Wc3 was not actualy made to fully support custom maps since if it was there would not be that cursed 4MB size limate. . .

Also the graffic engine is dated and can not compete with modern games.
You think what people make in wc3 look impresive?
Just take a look at the graffics from games like Age of empires 3 and rise of legends and you will see how dated wc3 graffics are.
Maps can look good but they truely can not be "next generation" graffic wise sadly.

 

[operator]

Imagine if you could make multiplayer rpgs going over many maps with up to 30 players? That would be a next generation WC map.''

that would simply kick ass

 

[Kimbo]

No point, the wc3 engine is already old(and very limited) and it would take a long time and some really smart people to be able to change the engine (with a permission) to make it better.

And maps arnt going to do anything, Dota already has the cup holder since they Dota has tournaments for money prizes.

 

[Rui]

Agreed. Beating DotA will be a very hard task, if not impossible.

And it happens that some map makers become bored of what they are doing and just quit it. For example, I already started making over 15 maps and only finished 1, lol.
And really, I doubt Real Life RPGs can kick DotA's ass, that would give me a big laugh.

 

[brad.dude03]

Yes, if anyone could have topped dota it would have been done years ago. The WC is pretty much out of fresh ideas and things they can do with the WE. Blizzard will never, ever create a WC4, despite the MASSIVE popularity wc3 has suddenly gained thanks to WoW. The engine is get way too old, and even though WoW's isn't the best around it still kicks the crap out of the WC3engine.

 

[Shados]

The WC is pretty much out of fresh ideas and things they can do with the WE.

Oh really? And I thought I told you about my idea.... Odd, get on MSN so I can tell you my map idea, it's truely innovative.

-*meow*

 

[Shadowz123]

Yes, if anyone could have topped dota it would have been done years ago. The WC is pretty much out of fresh ideas and things they can do with the WE. Blizzard will never, ever create a WC4, despite the MASSIVE popularity wc3 has suddenly gained thanks to WoW. The engine is get way too old, and even though WoW's isn't the best around it still kicks the crap out of the WC3engine.

Whats funny is, that WoW uses thw Wc3 Engine! if noone knew that then LOL!
its an upgraded form of the Wc3 engine, using alot of the same aspects in Wc3.

 

[The_wand_mirror]

Operator said - The WC is pretty much out of fresh ideas and things they can do with the WE.

if you are DUTCH and read this sentence good u know what i mean,keep ur attention on the word 'WC' ( laughed my head of when i read this )

But anyway ...

I didnt knew that DOTA already made cash prizes and shit... wtf .. where they get al that money from? a wonder u dont have to pay for that map

But its not immposible i think.. and you could name the 'Next-gen' better as 'New-age-b.net' becuase you already see so much nice upcomming maps.. But none of them is finished yet..

 

[Dr Super Good]

I was saying make a game using a completly new engine simlar to wc3 but better.

But no none payed people will ever do that so who cares.

Wc3 maps are badly limated due to the engine and Dota is only top because of hype and money. . .

The main trouble with wc3 is it's graffic engine is out dated and the loss of texture clamp when too many polies are onscreen is annoying and also the rendering of "unseeable areas" is unknown to some people but clearly adds lag as some people who make maps noticed. . .

In oblivion in one screen I can see more polies than most demanding wc3 maps have rendered at any time and have shadows that actualy use a shader (Ooooooooo shader (wc3 uses no full features of modern shaders obviously)) an have hdr and stuff on while having high res textures on.

If oblivion can render in such detail and have minimal lag wc3 should be able to render alot better quality than it currently is but since the engine is outdated ofcourse it will not.

You will never have a next gen map due to graffics do not support next gen quality and that is the end of the subject unless someone actualy botheres to make their own wc engine that supports lattest graffic features.

 

[brad.dude03]

HELLOOO Are you daft? WC3 is a strategy game. The engine is based on that to have minimal graphical detail, because it isn't needed. Oblivion is a MODERN very recent RPG. WC3 is 5 years old. There is no comparing the two. Oblivion is designed that have very high rez textures because it is up close and the graphics quality is far more important.

 

[Dr Super Good]

LOL are you daft?
Look at the graffics of AoE 3 (A STRATERGY GAME) and you will see the shadows look ultra high quality, the trees look good and water even has REAL reflections unlike wc3 and the modles are by no means low res and the game hardly lags at all. Still think that a comp would not be able to handle it? Look at Medievil total war II! Thoughs are graffics with up to 500 units on one screen which look lifelike and the game again hardly lags at all.

Yes it might not be able to have all units at oblivion quality but I did not say it has to all I said was it could have alot better graffics.

Atleast the water could reflect instead of the standard animated texture or distortion since even edotmw had reflecting water and that was made at about the same time as wc3 and come to think of it even its units are better quality than wc3 and in there it supported thousands.

 

[Mechanical Man]

I did not see aoe3 having that uber graphics. It seems that the models have no more polies that those in warcraft. However, units there are very small and that detail is not required.

Maybe is just me, I play both games at low settings.

 

[The_wand_mirror]

I was saying make a game using a completly new engine simlar to wc3 but better.

But no none payed people will ever do that so who cares.

Wc3 maps are badly limated due to the engine and Dota is only top because of hype and money. . .

The main trouble with wc3 is it's graffic engine is out dated and the loss of texture clamp when too many polies are onscreen is annoying and also the rendering of "unseeable areas" is unknown to some people but clearly adds lag as some people who make maps noticed. . .

In oblivion in one screen I can see more polies than most demanding wc3 maps have rendered at any time and have shadows that actualy use a shader (Ooooooooo shader (wc3 uses no full features of modern shaders obviously)) an have hdr and stuff on while having high res textures on.

If oblivion can render in such detail and have minimal lag wc3 should be able to render alot better quality than it currently is but since the engine is outdated ofcourse it will not.

You will never have a next gen map due to graffics do not support next gen quality and that is the end of the subject unless someone actualy botheres to make their own wc engine that supports lattest graffic features.

YOU! where talking about that ... i was not

HELLOOO Are you daft? WC3 is a strategy game. The engine is based on that to have minimal graphical detail, because it isn't needed. Oblivion is a MODERN very recent RPG. WC3 is 5 years old. There is no comparing the two. Oblivion is designed that have very high rez textures because it is up close and the graphics quality is far more important.

But its still very popular.. but i wasnt talking about the graphics

 

[brad.dude03]

No, guys, you're forgetting something. WARCRAFT 3 IS AN OLD GAME. IT IS NOT NEW LIKE AOE3 OR MEDIEVAL II: TOTAL WAR. Compare a strategy game made in the same year as Warcraft 3 and you will see that the graphics aren't all that different, sometimes WC3's are even better. Graphics quality has advanced so much in the last 5 years that you couldn't even compare the graphics of a game made in 2002 to one in 2007. Hell DirectX 7 was still in use, and now we're on to 10. Stop comparing older games to newer games with high quality graphics in mind and maybe then you will see that you're complaints have no foundation.

 

[Dr Super Good]

I was saying that in some kind of wc3 replacement the graffics would probably support all the stuff wc3 does not.

Also Empires Dawn Of The Modern World was realsed a year after Wc3 roc and its graffics totaly pawn Wc3's with effects that are still in use in modern games and it is nothing but a remoded and changed Empire Earth (1999 or was it a 2000 game?).

Its shadows had simlar quality to thoughs used in modern games (although they did not move with light) also it supported water reflections fully and the textures were reasonably high res matching thoughs of modern strat games (not mtw II but that is an ultra modern game that even top range cards give stuttering on when viewing 1000 units +). The units poly counts were also highish giving really good looking units even reasonably close. Only major flaw in it was self shadowing with the boats looked weird but that was due to weak shaders at the time. It also supported 1000+ units even on a slow system (geforce4) with minimal lag (not all on screen at once since I dought the geforce 8 would handle all that). The most annoying trouble with graffics was that it required a 256 GRAM card to play or else it lagged like the world was comming to the end (1 min dellay). Also due to the primitve shading technology at the time the shadows cause more lag than they should but it was desinged to use shader modle 1 if not no shader modle at all. . .

So the graffics at the time were not really that bad but wc3 although its modles actualy look good lacks some more modern support which other games at the time had most noticably shadows and water effects (reflection/better looking waves). And I repeat, I was saying IF they made a new wc it should support such features since even some games from 2000 had better shadows than wc3's blur for unit shadows.

But like I said and 1000s of other people say "blizzard will never make a wc4!"
The only hope for a better wc like engine is if some other company decides to give their strat game the open-ness of wc3 or if a group of programers decide to take it on as a hobby which both I dought will happen sadly. . .

 

[BlackDoom]

I might be wrong but I think that AoE uses voxels instead of actual models.

You can see how voxels are used and defined in Command & Conquer - Tiberian Sun and Red Alert.

Speaking of which... No matter about age... C&C - Tiberian Sun was practically unknown by most of my contacts, yet EA launched the C&C - Tiberium Wars - a remake using the C&C-TS universe. The point is that Blizzard has no actual reasons not to launch WC4. Perhaps they are working on it now... Who knows...

I'm also tired by the graphical engine. Petty... Shame - a game so catchy with such drawback... And the 4 MB map-size-limit... I am no map-maker, yet that seems cruel to me...

New ideas? Let me pass all my exams and I'll post a thread. Let's see what (former) WC3Sear.ch and HiveWorkshop.com users have in mind...

I wish WC3 doesn't go down the drain... It's too nice... For Kalimdor...

So may things to say... so little time to both live and enjoy a virtual Universe... Hhoollaa...

 

[Kimbo]

actually wc3's net hostings and such are god dam horrible! i lag horribley and 2mb maps take 5mins or more to dl,while it would take me 30 seconds to get it off the net...the lag is horrible and only like..20% of people can host..but the engine itself causes alot of lag upon a computer..

 

[brad.dude03]

Hah the 4 MB rule is a good thing. People lag enough as it is with these under 4MB maps, could you imagine if there was 10 or 15 mb maps? Anyone that didn't have a good connection would be screwed, and a good chunk of America is not on broadband yet, even more so at the time of launch, so it only makes sense for Blizzard to impose limits, even if it does hamper the abilities of map makers.

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

next Gen?

Imagine wc3 on the wii...

 

[The_wand_mirror]

Hah the 4 MB rule is a good thing. People lag enough as it is with these under 4MB maps, could you imagine if there was 10 or 15 mb maps? Anyone that didn't have a good connection would be screwed, and a good chunk of America is not on broadband yet, even more so at the time of launch, so it only makes sense for Blizzard to impose limits, even if it does hamper the abilities of map makers.

If there where 15 mb maps or larger avaible for hosting then they probably gave wc3 more power to run these maps ..

 

[Dr Super Good]

Even if a map was 200MB big it WILL NOT lag on a modern comp since the modles do not add more lag than the already 600 MB of modles wc3 comes with. I seen campains which use over 15 MB of modles per map AND jass spells and they did not lag at all next to when triggers and effects overloaded for well effect. . .

AoE III (3, not 2, not 1, 3!) uses FULLY 3d modles, HD lighting, Shadows, Water reflection and GOOD res modles as well as physic engine and it does not lag at all unless its a 6 army showdown (600 units fighting). . .
And my comp is by NO MEANS up to date. . .

My set up is a 3GHZ HT pentium 4 procesor (no intle pentium core duo extreme. . .), 2GB ram (not really that fast), AGP mother board (AGP OLD!!!) and AN nvedia geforce 7800 GS (AN S modle. . .)

And that setup does not lag much in really modern games like AOE III and oblivion at almost max!

People with intel pentium core duo extremes with 4 GB of ram, Duel PCI-E 32x, dual SLIed Nvedia geforce 8800 GXs and Windows vista must be laughing my set up silly but it works fine for modern games!

15 MB of modles will hardly cause you to lag considering Medevil total war has upto 1GB of modles loaded at one time. . .

The actual reason Bnet does not allow infinate sized maps is to stop games being destributed online since all a map file is, is an MPQ and thus with some clever editing a map could easily contain something as big as elder scroles oblivion if there was no cap.

They should have atleast made it 20MB since then some good maps based on games could be made. . .

 

[The_wand_mirror]

Even if a map was 200MB big it WILL NOT lag on a modern comp since the modles do not add more lag than the already 600 MB of modles wc3 comes with. I seen campains which use over 15 MB of modles per map AND jass spells and they did not lag at all next to when triggers and effects overloaded for well effect. . .

AoE III (3, not 2, not 1, 3!) uses FULLY 3d modles, HD lighting, Shadows, Water reflection and GOOD res modles as well as physic engine and it does not lag at all unless its a 6 army showdown (600 units fighting). . .
And my comp is by NO MEANS up to date. . .

My set up is a 3GHZ HT pentium 4 procesor (no intle pentium core duo extreme. . .), 2GB ram (not really that fast), AGP mother board (AGP OLD!!!) and AN nvedia geforce 7800 GS (AN S modle. . .)

And that setup does not lag much in really modern games like AOE III and oblivion at almost max!

People with intel pentium core duo extremes with 4 GB of ram, Duel PCI-E 32x, dual SLIed Nvedia geforce 8800 GXs and Windows vista must be laughing my set up silly but it works fine for modern games!

15 MB of modles will hardly cause you to lag considering Medevil total war has upto 1GB of modles loaded at one time. . .

The actual reason Bnet does not allow infinate sized maps is to stop games being destributed online since all a map file is, is an MPQ and thus with some clever editing a map could easily contain something as big as elder scroles oblivion if there was no cap.

They should have atleast made it 20MB since then some good maps based on games could be made. . .

Yeah well ... it wouldnt just be playable ..

20mb is a good size maybe even near the 100 ... like 70 or 50 ..

 

[brad.dude03]

Wah wah wah. You complain about your comp? Try this. I have a P4 2.0 GHZ proc with 512 MB RAM, an AGP motherboard and a Radeon 7500. 7500, folks. That card is about 6 years old by now. It's a testament to ATI that it has lasted and performed as well as it has.

 

[Lunatechnick]

wc3 is suckage, there are too many noobs (not mentioning names (no, really))
nothing can beat gears of war for Xbox 360, 'cept the shortness

 

[brad.dude03]

nothing can beat gears of war for Xbox 360, 'cept the shortness

You lie! Halo 3 will pwn faces off GOW. Even though Gears of War is an exceptional game. They are very similar, the Halo series and Gears of War, they are both scifi, and very, very awesome. It'll be nice knowing that after Halo ends with number 3 there will be the Gears of War games to hold my appetite for Sci Fi shooters. But then I can stop bragging that a relative of mine is making Halo 3... and we wouldn't want that now would we? xD Feed my ego!

 

[Dr Super Good]

X box 360 sucks due to the money scam called X box live!
Its worse than WoW and then they charge for everything you dl from in. . .
PS3 beats X box 360 by far in virtualy every way but the price. . .

As for gears of war. . .
Nice graffics anything else it got?
From what I have heard the reload system is a pain and to put it short "building a gun on the Wii would be quicker than to reload in gow" said some person I met on wc3 bnet.
And its a FP shooter game and BOY there are enough of them already. . .

What happened to the times of Empire Earth when you could send 100s of horriably overpowered robots and level your oponents flat watching their units go flying. . .
All modern strat games are all so ballenced that they are not fun and mostly there are FPS being made which im getting sick of seeing. . .

The only reason people play X box 360 is they have no idea about computers and want the best graffics now. . .
When the first range of vista, cheap DX10 cards and DX10 games come out you will see that computers are not too far behind.

And there are no strat games for X box 360 (ones like wc3 or ee) so if it is really powerfull why does it have none?

 

[Kimbo]

Even if a map was 200MB big it WILL NOT lag on a modern comp since the modles do not add more lag than the already 600 MB of modles wc3 comes with. I seen campains which use over 15 MB of modles per map AND jass spells and they did not lag at all next to when triggers and effects overloaded for well effect. . .

AoE III (3, not 2, not 1, 3!) uses FULLY 3d modles, HD lighting, Shadows, Water reflection and GOOD res modles as well as physic engine and it does not lag at all unless its a 6 army showdown (600 units fighting). . .
And my comp is by NO MEANS up to date. . .

My set up is a 3GHZ HT pentium 4 procesor (no intle pentium core duo extreme. . .), 2GB ram (not really that fast), AGP mother board (AGP OLD!!!) and AN nvedia geforce 7800 GS (AN S modle. . .)

And that setup does not lag much in really modern games like AOE III and oblivion at almost max!

People with intel pentium core duo extremes with 4 GB of ram, Duel PCI-E 32x, dual SLIed Nvedia geforce 8800 GXs and Windows vista must be laughing my set up silly but it works fine for modern games!

15 MB of modles will hardly cause you to lag considering Medevil total war has upto 1GB of modles loaded at one time. . .

The actual reason Bnet does not allow infinate sized maps is to stop games being destributed online since all a map file is, is an MPQ and thus with some clever editing a map could easily contain something as big as elder scroles oblivion if there was no cap.

They should have atleast made it 20MB since then some good maps based on games could be made. . .

Dude, certain game engines have been optimized and tweaked to handle such mass onslaught of graphics and amount of units in game, obviously, it would be common sense.

And models do infact lag the game, some of my old models had an over kill in polies, had 3 on the screen, lagged my comp and crashed it. And some models which have not been optimized properly can lag,corrupt or crash a map.

And stop comparing other games with such an old engine that was created in its own way. Blizzard created the engine how they wanted it and it does its purpose, if they wanted to change it then they would add a patch to fix it, if they didnt, then they didnt.

 

[Shadowz123]

Well, its a console, There is no Mouse for the Xbox 360 as of yet, when there is, there will be some! well, whjat about Simulation (Viva Pinata) which a real addictive game, thats kinda strategy...defend your Pinatas, Breed your Pinatas, build homes, feed them....

 

[brad.dude03]

HAH! Compared to WoW Xbox Live is an amazing deal. For like 6 bucks a month you get unlimited online play in any game that supports it. PS gow has AMAZING gameplay, nobody cares about graphics anymore since everyone expects them to be good. PS3 is totally tanking right now, as it decided to go up against the Wii, which sold 325 thousand units on its first day, making it the best selling console in history. Sony is on the edge and they were banking on the PS3 selling, so say bye bye to Sony as they are circling the drain, since they are losing money now. And anyway, the only reason to buy a PS3 is if you want a blu ray player, since it is about 500 dollars cheaper then the cheapest bluray player.

 

[Xlightscreen]

Well what I get annoyed is every time I ask people what Warcraft 4 graphics will look like they instantly say WOW. Its like comone it probaly be a few years before they even start developing it WoW graphics will look like old ps1 graphics lol. I'm guessing it will look like what you see in the cinimatics.

btw brad...the sony has so much money they could give out ps3 for free for a year and still have enough money to go around another year....besides where not comparing consoles where discussing Warcraft next gen.

 

[Dr Super Good]

With directX10 and a compatiable card you should be able to play strat games that look like oblivion in graffic quality or better (ofcourse not far away but when zoomed in close). Look at medevil total war 2's graffics and thats still a direct X 9 game and the graffics look really detailed. Ofcourse this is based on what people say about DX10 since I my self have not had any experience with DX10 (since its not realsed. . .).

And when I said modles do not add lag I meant when they are imported not when onscreen. And the game crashing is a bug since wc3's graffic engine only can handle so many polies before the modles start to destort then once a limate is excded (I think 65536 odd polies or something) the game just starts going unstable and eventualy will crash.

 

[brad.dude03]

No, I read an article in Wired magazine. Sony is no longer making a profit (this is pre ps3 release) and since the PS3 is tanking, I don't think things have changed at all. You can look at the article on www.wired.com if you like, but I tend to trust Wired as a reputable source, so I don't know where your facts are coming from, but Wired says they suck, so I believe 'em.

 

[Xlightscreen]

mmk well i searched that up on wired and so far all the articals i found was how great the system was lol and then after about 5 of those I found the one you where talking about. Obvisly its kinda old and hasn't added in how many contracts it has gotten for just its cell chip alone which if anything will keep the company alive even if ps3 goes to crap. But yea if you wan't to continue discussing this just PM me ill gladly debate it.

 

[brad.dude03]

I'll do that, I like debating, as you can probably tell But I just think that even if Sony stays alive (they do make some nice stuff here and there) the PS3 shalt still flop between the combined might of the Wii crushing the launch and the (arguable) Xbox 360 hardware superiority.

 

[The_wand_mirror]

lol neither i gonna read all those text

Neither wont i think i will get the subject

 

[Fire_Onyx]

Replacing dota will only change one thing:Instead of seeing Dota everywhere in the custom game lobby we will see that next gen map -,-

 

[The_wand_mirror]

Replacing dota will only change one thing:Instead of seeing Dota everywhere in the custom game lobby we will see that next gen map -,-

Then at least there is some map that could beat dota but i agree in it that the popularest map will not be the 'best' map in the eyes of the most public