The Human Race - Becoming Physically Weaker?

[Elite Slayer]

I find this a fairly interesting topic to discuss, and I hope I posted it in the right section.
It has been said that the modern human would pale before his ancestors in regards to physical strength and capability. Has the Industrial Revolution and Information Age transformed us into half-pints of what our forefathers were? Anthropologist Peter McAllister seems to think so.

According to the anthropologist, a Neanderthal woman - whose remains were discovered in a cave in France and have been dubbed 'La Ferrassie II' - boasted ten percent more muscle mass than the average European man, and had enough upper arm strength to "slam him to the table without a problem.” ^(ref)

Many prehistoric Australian aboriginals could have outrun world 100 and 200 metres record holder Usain Bolt in modern conditions. These same aborigines could also hurl a hardwood spear 110 metres or more.^(ref)

In Ancient Sparta, military training for men began at the tender age of seven, where they were sent off to military schools. One of the feats they had to achieve was enduring what could be considered "pain-proofing" - that is, beating and intense physical hardship.

During the reign of the Roman Empire in the first millennium A.D, a typical Roman legionary was expected to march, on average, one-and-a-half marathons (roughly 63km, or 40 miles) every day, carrying heavy gear which could weigh up to 20kg (44lbs).

In the middle ages, knights were expected to be able to ride, charge, fight, run and crawl in plate and chainmail armour, which could weigh anywhere from 27 - 32kg (60 - 70lbs), excluding their weapons and other armaments, such as swords and shields.

Almost twenty years ago, there were reports of Rwandan Tsutsi men being capable of leaping or springing higher than the world-class milestone of 2.45m.

And what about today, in our enlightened Information Age?

While men such as those in the special forces branches of many military institutions - such as the British Special Air Service, the Russian Spetsnaz, or the U.S Navy S.E.A.Ls - do us proud with the almost superhuman feats they achieve, it cannot be denied that, on average, the human race has deteriorated physically to a very worrisome extent. What do the statistics say?

In America, about one-third of adults (33.8%) are obese, and approximately 17% (or 12.5 million) of children and adolescents aged 2—19 years are obese. ^(ref)

Also in the U.S (not being nationally biased - all the statistics I've dug up seem to center around this country), alligators in Florida have killed 18 humans in the last 60 years, and around one human is killed by mountain lions every year. ^(ref) This is significantly less than what older generations of humans had to put up with. In fact, about two hundred years ago, warriors of the Zulu kingdom - the Impi - in Southern Africa were expected to prove their worth by killing a dangerous wild predator such as a lion as evidence they were men. This means aggressive encounters between man and beast were more than triple the statistics of what they are today.

So, can anthropologist McAllister's statement that "as a class we are in fact the sorriest cohort of masculine Homo sapiens to ever walk the planet," be justified? The scientist attempts to do so himself by explaining, "We are so inactive these days and have been since the industrial revolution really kicked into gear. These people were much more robust than we [are]."

What do you think? Is modern man really, as a whole, physically incompetent?
Be right back - doing a few push-ups.



PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS NOT REGARDING THE MENTAL OR INTELLECTUAL CAPACITY OF MODERN HUMANS. I'm well aware of how modern man is, collectively, extremely intelligent as opposed to his ancestors. This is about the aspect of physical strength and capability.

 

[-Derp-]

This doesn't surprise me. In today's society, the only hunting we do on a daily basis is hunting through the refrigerator. Its no longer the 'survival of the fittest', nowadays its who can get the best job, which is generally linked to who's the most intelligent.

About the United States' obesity problems - some websites are saying up to 70% of the U.S.'s population is either overweight or obese.

 

[GhostThruster]

Lol who the fuck needs muscles when we have guns?

 

[Skycraft]

Who needs muscles when we have science?

 

[-Grendel]

who needs muscles when we have Chuck Norris?

 

[Coolty44]

Who needs Chuck Norris when we have original jokes?

I'd agree with the article, mostly because we have machines to do just about everything, and most things that can't be done entirely with robots is done by people being assisted by robots.

 

[Ken-E]

Yeap, the human race is growing physically weaker overtime. A person's life span grows shorter than usual, you'd be lucky enough if your still kicking by the age of 60+.

 

[GhostThruster]

What are you talking about? The average human life span has probably doubled since medieval times.

 

[_lycan]

to bad U.S people , you could go to another country and see that people are not obese like in your country

 

[Elite Slayer]

To Derp: Very true, very true. In fact, just take a look at the 'How Many Hours Do You Spend in Front of the Computer' thread on the Hive to see the extent to which humans pre-occupy themselves with potentially health-affecting pursuits. (Not to say being on the computer is bad, but being continuously for 6+ hours is a little bad, isn't it?)

For those with the "who needs muscle" arguments, while it is true science
and intellect have acted a replacement for strength, this is more than just muscle mass. It includes physiology, muscle density, physical strength, and physical capability, all of which form part of every day human life. The fact that we're growing physically weaker will impact daily life eventually. The children of labourers on a work site, for example, will be reared in a different environment to their fathers - not all, but most will inevitably be weaker or less physically inclined, and won't follow in their father's footsteps (maybe because of other job opportunities, too), and thus a physically intense job such as construction will gradually be given to the machines.

And for those with the "longer life span" statement, once again, it is true - in fact, as opposed to our ancestors thousands of years ago, we can be expected to live 20 - 40 years longer. However, I would dare someone to compete in any raw physical activity against one of our ancestors. There was a reason they lived shorter - they had it much harder, and it shaped them into real men and women in the physical aspect. We may win the longevity round, but we lose in the stamina, strength and endurance round. Why? Because we have little to no contact with the wild aspect of nature our ancestors did. This may be a good thing, as it allows us to develop without any fear of natural predation (which probably fell away from the human race a very long time ago), but at the possible expense of an intrinsic property of our bodies.

What I am getting at is not a debate, but at a point of how we are growing weaker and forsaking physicality.

 

[Arcisal]

Well for one, the need for physical strength has been reduced to merely to look good and impress those around us. It's not like we need to hunt anymore. And what strength we do need isn't as much as those of that before us.

Technology, my friend.

 

[GhostThruster]

Well see here, we are an adaptive species. When shit gets tough, we adapt. ie if technology is wiped out, we will resort to hunting and gathering, and we will get strong again. And it works in reverse; if science, technology, and everything else makes our lives cosier and cosier, we will turn to couch potatoes (exactly like what is happening in modern times).

EDIT: In other words: The fact that we're growing physically weaker is because of the change of daily life.

 

[Direfury]

There's a group of people that can outrun pretty well any marathon runner. On a daily basis. At age sixty. Barefoot.

Now I'm not saying they're primitive, but they ARE in some ways, modern human beings, with the capacity to go on a trek like that, and treat it like their morning jog.

 

[Elite Slayer]

It's not like we need to hunt anymore. And what strength we do need isn't as much as those of that before us.

Technology, my friend.

My point exactly.

Well see here, we are an adaptive species. When shit gets tough, we adapt. ie if technology is wiped out, we will resort to hunting and gathering, and we will get strong again. And it works in reverse; if science, technology, and everything else makes our lives cosier and cosier, we will turn to couch potatoes (exactly like what is happening in modern times).

Once again, I agree with this. Unfortunately, we are adapting in an entirely new direction, as you have mentioned - adapting to an easier, lazier, less intensive lifestyle. There are exceptions (e.g soldiers, special forces, athletes e.t.c), but these exceptions probably make up just less than 5% of the world population. But, as you said, if the tables were to turn, and mankind was thrusted back into a primal environment, he would adapt, but probably at the expense of millions of lives of people who were physically inapt.

There's a group of people that can outrun pretty well any marathon runner. On a daily basis. At age sixty. Barefoot.

Now I'm not saying they're primitive, but they ARE in some ways, modern human beings, with the capacity to go on a trek like that, and treat it like their morning jog.

There probably are people like that. But, as you said, their lifestyle is primitive in some ways, and that gives them a physical advantage.

 

[Direfury]

Actually it's because of their beer.

 

[Elite Slayer]

o.o
And just who are these people?

 

[Direfury]

Hell if I know, though they live in some sort of desert-like area.

I can't quite remember their name.

 

[GhostThruster]

@Vermillion Edict: I smell bullshit.

Unfortunately, we are adapting in an entirely new direction

Who says it's unfortunate? Personally I like having a computer (and Wc3 for that matter), a fridge, an oven, a microwave, and pants, when I think about it.

 

[Direfury]

Look it up, there was something on National Geographic about them.

I do remember, their beer was some sort of starch-y corn product. Had something to do with giving them the energy to pull off those runs.

 

[Elite Slayer]

Who says it's unfortunate? Personally I like having a computer (and Wc3 for that matter), a fridge, an oven, a microwave, and pants, when I think about it.

You know what I mean - positive in most aspects, perhaps, but still containing a few cons.

 

[Sky Green]

It's true but still, this is what we adapted too... If we ever need strength we will adapt again. It's adapt or die, and we are winning the game... Altough physical strength still is important for social life... So yea... WC3 FTW

Humans have used the element that they have to increase their powers... The first humans didn't rely on physical strength they relied on agility to evade wild animals. Once they had strength to kill them they adapted and combined agility strength and intelligence to rule and conquer... Today with all the weapons we only need intelligence. Why bother working out if you can use guns to kill problems

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Ofc we are... we use computers, in the past people didnt harm their eyes, used their muscles for everything, were more fit. True story. Though this balances with the poorer medical assistance unlike today's.

 

[Ramza]

''An anthropologist has described modern man as “the sorriest cohort of masculine Homo sapiens to ever walk the planet”, with even Arnold Schwarzenegger at his muscular peak no match for a Neanderthal woman in the arm-wrestling stakes.''

Yeah, right.
The ''slam him to the table without a problem'' line is even sillier. Reminds me of those ''my dad can beat up your dad'' arguments.

He even contradicts himself when he says that neanderthal woman boasted 10% more muscle than the average modern European man. Arnold had about, what... 300% more muscle than the average man? Or at least 3 times the size. Don't really know how they calculate percentages.

I found a nice reply on a forum about that article:

''There’s no way I am buying any of this bovine scatology. Let’s go back to the 1850s, with frontier people and mountain folk in the hills of Tennessee and N. Carolina making their living off the land just as I imagine Neanderthals doing; these people were lean mean fighting machines not muscle bound behemoths.

This is just headline grabbing nonsense. Arnold at his peak could have snapped these people like twigs.''

 

[Elite Slayer]

Whilst that may be true about those living in 1850s, the fact that humans today have collectively physically deteroriated still stands.

 

[Ramza]

Yeah, of course.

It reminds me a bit of movies like Wall-E, where people can hardly even walk anymore, because they haven't had to for hundreds of years. I wouldn't be surprised if the future will actually be like that.

 

[Orcnet]

we don't need to be an everyday superman anymore, I guess technology is now more important than having a six pack neck.

also just exercise! that's what were always missing

 

[TheKurt009]

yes because of this example:
what about a fat guy who a fat son who had a fat daughter that had a fat son and so on and on...
or what about an athlete who had a son that's a boxer that had a gymnast daughter that had an Athlete son and so on and on?
Physically, a year 2200 Boxer who had the same skills with an average 2011 Boxer might become their next Manny Pacquiao.

 

[Direfury]

Aren't people in Japan working on exo-suits?

Admittedly, they're rather bulky, about three times the size of the wearer, mainly in hydraulics and such, but I think it was said they increase the wearer's strength anywhere from ten to a hundredfold.

Let's see your caveman overpower that.

 

[HFR]

I'll not be surprised if the Japanese launch their first Space Marine batch by late 2012.

Who needs super stamina to run 50 kilometers when you have lasers and powered exo-suits?

 

[Wimbo125]

The human race got weeker and lazy, the regular male couldn't do anything compared to a Neanderthaler, in physical strength, though man got smarter and with his knowledge he didn't need strength and thus it's partially evened.

Edit: And we have nicer looking facial hair too , look at Lemmy!

 

[Magtheridon96]

To be honest, if we lose all our technology, and our only option is to resort to hunting and gathering, I would be sitting in the corner of my room, curled up in a ball, holding my blanky, rocking back and forth, dying, and murmuring "It's all good. It's all good. Mommy and Daddy will buy me a new computer from the nice man. It's all good. Isn't that right blanky? Right? Y U NO ANSWER ME!?!!"

 

[Direfury]

Survival of the fittest. Mob mentality would take over for a time, groups would band together, and those with a healthy balance of intelligence, strength and all things inbetween would become more common.

If we lost our technology, there won't be any tech-heads around long after.

 

[Fud]

You can't really exclude intelligence from the discussion because they are not separate topics. The aborigines could do those things because they had to. For the same reason fish that live in caves don't have eyes we become weaker. When there is no natural selection for a specific trait it is no longer a factor in evolution. This means it can be lost without any consequences. As we need physical strength less and intelligence more we become weaker and smarter.

Besides the evolution aspect of this conversation i think there we can also dispute the original claim. If you have ever seen images of these freak body builders it is clear that we are not becoming weaker but stronger! no aborigines could bench 400 pounds.

Of course steroids and high protein diets help those body builders but doesn't aborigines running make them better runners? and throwing spears makes them better spear throwers? Perhaps we are only worse at these things because we don't do them. If you look at in tact African tribes today i assure you they are no weaker than they were 100's of years ago. (If they are its likely because of the droughts)

 

[HFR]

Honestly, I don't believe in these SHTF/loss of all our technology scenarios, they're just stuff to keep paranoid survivalists busy.

Most people today can't run 10 kilometers or lift lots of weight, of course. Because we don't need to, technology solves most of our needs that require physical strength/agility.

 

[Direfury]

Cranes.

 

[HFR]

Cranes.

Right, if my memory serves, the ancient Egyptians used rustic cranes. I think they used some cranes to lift Stonehenge's stones too.

Or aliens did it.

 

[Brambleclaw]

The brain is a muscle. So although for many humans in our race the muscle power will still be relatively high due to there brain, but it is just unevenly spread out.

Nowdays we do 90% of the things without using any muscles to there full extend unless we're working out.

You cannot say that we are getting weaker as a race, much less is that we are such as senses are just becoming dead/Ignoring the world around us so that we can get on with our tasks.

If it went to where competition was run by strength, and cities were non existant/ I.E back to the stone age. People would naturally adapt to use both strength and mind and to be stronger+faster due to the new limitations. Humans just simply adapt to there enviroment. Or change the enviroment to adapt to them.

So relatively i would not say the human race is growing weaker as a race in muscles as there are still tribes out there, and since now days we have drugs like anebolic steroids. You literally have some atheletes with "super human" strength or speed. So we are constantly breaking the barriers of what we can and cannot do. Although i would not support anebolic steroids for use in sport.

While the majority just change the variation of what we do. The time we spend at doing things has become majority mind based and we do not need to be as active as when we had to physically hunt for our food, since we can just farm.

It was alot like this 2000 years ago in celtic tribes. Apart from they still spent time to doing activities which built there muscles, so were alot stronger than the majority of humans today due to those activities, as although they farmed. They did still hunt, and they fought other countries/peoples with armed combat, but without guns.

So there fighting abillity was also dependant on technique strength and speed.
So they had to adapt.

Today we have the same fight for survival but where our brain is required.

This is why the statement we are becoming weaker in muscles, i would disagree with as the spread is just different. Although yes the majority of us is physically weaker that our human counterparts 2000 years ago. We can easilly pick up the old trend and readapt if the next generation was born during this change, where wepons no longer existed and we had to hunt for food.


Strength was never a priority in our evolution, otherwise we would of been neadertalls who were 2* as strong as us and equally intelligent, but were defeated due to our large number. Consisting of tribes of 30+ people. While they hanged out in famillies of 2-8 people




"According to the anthropologist, a Neanderthal woman - whose remains were discovered in a cave in France and have been dubbed 'La Ferrassie II' - boasted ten percent more muscle mass than the average European man, and had enough upper arm strength to "slam him to the table without a problem"


Again you must understand Neanderthalls evolved so that they were 2* as strong as us. When they hunted they used a heavy like spear which could be used to stab into the prey, then they would twist it. During this other members would grapple on its neck and take it down. This is how they caught horses. They evolved to be much stronger but therefor having to eat alot more to keep this muscle/ extra tissue. They solved issues with brute strength rather than pausing for a long effective plan to draw things out as brute strength usally worked. They would risk themselves at danger to usually gain food. They were alot more fool hardy you might say.

Humans used a light spear around this time, which would cause alot of internal damage as it hit. Not only this but later they invented a help for throwing it. Giving it more speed and extremly notable damage there after. It was a piercing spear, alot lighter less robust for hunting. Humans had to use there brains to fight there opponents and had to adapt. Neaderthalls did not adapt fast enough.
And they were realtively quickly wiped out as competition due to sheer human number and effectiveness of the spear+spear thrower.

Humans were never focussed on strength and had only this as a mean to a gains.

For example Homoerectus which inhabbited Asia. Would have the speed of an athelete due to the evolution in its legs. While the Neaderthal could be compared to a tank.

There were multiple spiecies older and younger than humans which stemmed from where we stemmed. Each having there own advantage.

What eventually won us out was our abillity to think what are opponents would do next, and the quick social network created between tribes to pass ideas, including the extremely fast migration and increase in population.

 

[TheKurt009]

some people said that we only use 1% of our brains and not using the 99%. Maybe it's for telekinesis or something???

 

[HFR]

some people said that we only use 1% of our brains and not using the 99%. Maybe it's for telekinesis or something???

The ability to materialize fried chicken at will.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

There is one interesting theory saying that some of our DNA containst 'locked secrets' or abilities, that was the same about the brain having those. While physically weaker, I think it is possible as not all ofthe DNA is known and there could be something to unlock in the future as part of the mind/brain evolution. Like the penial gland is said to be blocked or locked,

Im not sure how our brain evolution goes positively, people in the past were more spiritual and used more parts of the brain that we do now.

 

[Narogog]

the brain is mostly made of fat....


on the topic of physically weaker.

What are you talking about? I can go 40 miles in 12 hours walking, while carrying a 60 pound(~27.25kg) pack, and i am not all that strong. But the thing is on average we are weaker, because the physically weak now survive longer if you go back to Greece in particular Sparta, the physically weak were um.. nullified? and before that the physically weak were measured and found wanting, by well, everything. Which doesn't happen anymore thanks to improvements in technology and its effects on social science.

 

[Magtheridon96]

Uh..
I have to run 42 Km to get full community service credit for the week :/
Sucks right?

some people said that we only use 1% of our brains and not using the 99%. Maybe it's for telekinesis or something???

This is untrue. It's just a 'myth' that appeared in the 1920's. I believe they said we use ~5% of our brains.
It's not our brains, but our brain's potential.

 

[HFR]

Wow, running 42 km? I can barely walk 3 km without getting exhausted, what's your secret guys (Besides not being fat)?

 

[The_wand_mirror]

In the future humans will grow out to be 2 meter tall biomechanical beings, superior in every way to those that do not have these enhancements.

Yeah a bit the deus ex way.

 

[Magtheridon96]

I am fat ._.
I'll see if I can run a few Kilometers, and slowly jog the rest.
We're actually supposed to run at least 10 Km for good credit.
I was just talking to my friend and he told me that the marathon is 42 Km, but we have to run at least 10 Km ;D
Good news ey?

In the future humans will grow out to be 2 meter tall biomechanical beings

By future, you mean billions of years right?
If the ape-human transition took millions of years and barely changed anything
(other than maybe 3% of the DNA, more brain potential, etc..), then I'm guessing
that a major change like that should take a shitload of time

 

[Brambleclaw]

some people said that we only use 1% of our brains and not using the 99%. Maybe it's for telekinesis or something???

And some people read too much fiction.

We actually use 100% of our brain and our brain usage has been split into different sections. The original fact was there was a very low percentage of our brain that reacts to electrostatic stimulai.

But hey meh

 

[RiotZ]

We are becoming physically weaker, but intellectually stronger. Eventually exo-skeletons will be used by the military of the world to amplify the strength of their soldiers, and war will become automated with use of machines controlled by people hundreds of miles from the actual fight, maybe even thousands.

Technology has made us physically weaker, but it has made us stronger overall.

If I were to fight a 250 pound Neanderthal, and he used shear barbarian strength, and pit it against the technology that I possess today, or just my basic wit, I would surely win. Physical strength will soon be obsolete. Only in back yard brawls, or alley-way fights will it matter who is stronger, and it has made us weaker as a whole, so in that situation, opponents would be relatively equally matched. To further my point, even the Neanderthal and those who came after them pursued technology, down to the basic, stone, bronze, copper, iron, gunpowder. Technology has been advancing for the last thousand years.

Talk softly and carry a big stick.

@Bramble/Kurt: The number is 10% and this is only a myth, we use closer to 90% of our brains, about 80% of it (I'd say) just on involuntary things such as feeling, smelling, reasoning. Because the brain is not one big CPU, it does a lot more than process our thought, or calculate answers.

 

[Elite Slayer]

Interesting replies from you all. Thank you for contributing to this thread.
Still, I must ask - what effect do you think this will have on every day life? For example, a rudimentary but fairly common aspect of life is courtship. To put it simply, we know women are more susceptible to liking men with a more physically honed physique than a weak or frail one. Or even lifting heavy weights, such as house furniture. This may sound ridiculous now, but I am taking this on a scale of centuries of physical deteroriation due to technology.

 

[Brambleclaw]

We will become like Darlek everything will work out. The gender gap will merge into one single clonable gender. Or self fertilisation scheme.

Or on the otherside. We will continue as we are today. There will never be a majority with a frail physique due to the simple physcology that Men want to look atractive, women want to look atractive.

This cannot be achieved with bone and skin like structure where we are all size 0 and 20" waists. There will always be a need or feeling to keep in good shape.
Even if this bends from the majority it will always exist. Unless the above happens or some semi form of it.

The majority of things which we use to our benefit is for saving time. I.E Dishwashers/Drying machines/Washing machines/Irons etc--- For doing chores. I doubt in he future we have most of our mundane tasks taken care of we will have become incrediably weak. At some point it will level out ^^

Technology always has its limits in society. I.E nowdays we have a car which you can drive up to your frontdoor. And in the hosue if youwant.

People just won't do this. Now days we have the Skegways. People don't use them even if they were widely available. Majority of people see them as a novelty and that walking is fine for them. They are content with it.

 

[RiotZ]

We will become like Darlek everything will work out. The gender gap will merge into one single clonable gender. Or self fertilisation scheme.

Or on the otherside. We will continue as we are today. There will never be a majority with a frail physique due to the simple physcology that Men want to look atractive, women want to look atractive.

This cannot be achieved with bone and skin like structure where we are all size 0 and 20" waists. There will always be a need or feeling to keep in good shape.
Even if this bends from the majority it will always exist. Unless the above happens or some semi form of it.

The majority of things which we use to our benefit is for saving time. I.E Dishwashers/Drying machines/Washing machines/Irons etc--- For doing chores. I doubt in he future we have most of our mundane tasks taken care of we will have become incrediably weak. At some point it will level out ^^

Technology always has its limits in society. I.E nowdays we have a car which you can drive up to your frontdoor. And in the hosue if youwant.

People just won't do this. Now days we have the Skegways. People don't use them even if they were widely available. Majority of people see them as a novelty and that walking is fine for them. They are content with it.

That top part is a little far-fetched.