Teach better to play with human race

[best_player_88]

Hi!. I started play bnet 1vs1 official games this week, I read about human playing in blizzard site and couldn't find any real tips that can help me in a one on one fights , However I found that it very bad to built tower in the under of a cliff since the one attcking from above get zero miss and the tower get 25%.
So what I ask is for tips for winning that can make me understand how to play better as human. some basic stuff like which units counter which units or what is the units play style , like the gryphins are attack from up the tree and must be hiden till u got atlist 3 (blizzard site tip).
I hope this masssage in the right forum if not notify me, thank you for reading and tring to help.

 

[Kala]

Tips:

• Don't mass footmen. After 2-3 footmen, move to riflemen.
• Dont pick Bloodmage first in 1vs1.
• If you don't pick Archmage first, don't pick it later.
• Keep building Farms all the time. They produces only 6 food, so mass them to win.
• Use Water Elemental to tank creeps.
• Try to always keep Scroll of Protection in your inventory. Human units are weak.
• For pros only : Upgrade inventory to your units, and use sorceress with invisibility to follow your enemy army and steal possible items from creeps.

Counter Orc

- Micro your units. Don't let BM to kill weak ones.
- In small maps, make atleast 1-2 priest with adept training to dispell spirit link/bloodlust.
- Human has strong casters. Make master sorceresses vs. Taurens or other heavy units to turn them into sheeps.
- Always use Mountain King as SECONDARY hero vs. orcs. You can easily disable BM with hammer.
- Train few mortars if your enemy does casters, and blast them with mortars.
- Try to harass Orc burrows with Archmage&Few footies[Defend]. Burrows are very weak, and destroying them stops unit producing for long time. But never harass without Teleport Scroll.


Counter Human

- If you're better player than your opponent, just mimic his build/units/heroes and beat him with skill.
- Try to scout all possible goldmines to ruin his plans. Ruin 1 Gold Mine and you have big advantage.
- If he's better, you have to win him with playing style:
Footman [Defend] > Riflemen
Casters > Footmen/Knight
Mortar > Casters/Tank
Griffons > Mortar


Counter Undead

- Undead is very easy to counter with Human. Just make Footmen [With defend] & Rifles in early game.
- If enemy makes destroyers, make rifles.
- I always use Dark Ranger with silence vs Undead. This allows you to nuke, and Undead heroes useless. No more healing with Death Coil, no more slow with Frost Armor/Frost Nova.


Counter Night Elf

- Night Elf is Humans worst nightmare. Almost nothing beats Bear&Dryad combo. But there's a way: Make mortars&Rifle&Sorceress. When battle begins, not waste Sorceresses mana. First, get rid of dryads with mortars. After that, polymorph bears and keep DH stunned with MK.
- Game agaisnt Night Elves will be hard. But if you do nicely in early game, you can win. Try to kill Wisps during Elf's teching his main. Then he have two choices: Cancel tech or Lose.

 

[best_player_88]

Tips:



Counter Undead

- Undead is very easy to counter with Human. Just make Footmen [With defend] & Rifles in early game.
- If enemy makes destroyers, make rifles.
- I always use Dark Ranger with silence vs Undead. This allows you to nuke, and Undead heroes useless. No more healing with Death Coil, no more slow with Frost Armor/Frost Nova.

So Undead raced player will allways win if HE got the silence woman first , or is there a way to counter that as well?

 

[En_Fuego]

Don't get rifles versus Fiends. Fiends have the statiscal advantage unless you get Paladin 1st for some odd reason.

As a newb, I suggest you try your hand at fast expanding. One of the things that makes Humans a good race is that they can build towers and other buildings faster than any other race.

The economy of Humans is also very bad compared to other races. Pro players always setup and expo with Human otherwise they will be constantly behind. Check out this website for some info.

 

[Dr Super Good]

I do not understand why the human economy is slower than other races. Especially considering that they get the lumber upgrade and their miners are as fast as other races.

 

[Peter Canvis]

Practice. It's all about practice.

 

[best_player_88]

Check out this website for some info.

Private massage?

I do not understand why the human economy is slower than other races. Especially considering that they get the lumber upgrade and their miners are as fast as other races.

Since comparing to other:

Ghoul food/gold cost = 2/ 120
Peasant = 1 / 75
Wisp = 1 / 60
Peon = 1 / 75


Ghoul attack and hit = 2 lumber Peasant / Peon = only 1 wisp = 5 for time that worth 10 using other peons but not kill the tree and instant pay to bill so it get faster to the player account instead of walking.

Ghoul can upgrade its attack speed and move speed peasant = can't peons can near to tauren cheiften aura for move speed wisp dont need to move.

Advantage:
+ can maximum carry more than peon when upgraded (wisp not need to walk or carry and ghoul do duble gathering with 20 max and move faster when upgraded)
+ can built drop spot from time to time closer than the one before and can do it fast built mode, unlike undead which has huge drop spot and cannot be replaced with fast building mode, orcs can do new drop spot easy but can't do it fast built mode and wisp dont walk .

Disadventage :
- Can carry less comparring to ghoul.
- Need to move back comparring to Wisp who don't need to.
- Can't move faster using magics , like bloodlust or tauren chieften aura comparing to Peon.
- Whenever peon create new lumber drop spot , the new tower can upgrade faster the whole army attack/defense/ tower spikes. Humans need to spend 120 gold and it give no real army upgrades.

Conclude:
comaring to other races, in order to fit their speed human need to constantly spend 120 gold on new lumber mill which is a big waist, they need to walk, they carry half of ghoul carry and do half on hit, and they can't become faster using human auras.

Final desicion:
1- Get goblin to do that job.
2- Make a lot lot lot of peasant and wish no one kill them from behind.
3- if hopes not helping built milion towers.
4- don't use human when you want best aconomy race.

Gold:


Advantage:
+- = Comparing to orc they are the same not really advantage but equallity

Disadvantage:
- Need to walk, which make them vulnerable to attack, unlike wisp who is fully protected or acco which don't need to spend much distance of walking and easier to defend for that reason (try to holy light peasant and u missclick).

When attacked:
-+ = Comparying to ghouls, ghouls die the same as melitia equallity not advantage.
- Comparing to Wisp can't deny enemies exp gaining when attacked by blademaster, can't kill summoned, can't drain mana, can't remove buffs.
- comparing to orc after it run into its "defense mode" it only become more targeted and raise its potential to die with melitia.
- comparring to accolites they are much harder to click about without miss click before they die, since they are milions and accos are 5.

Concludes:
Blizzard need new patch in order to make this balanced aconomy among the races.

 

[En_Fuego]

The big things about economic disadvantage towards Humans is:

A) You fast-build a lot of things
B) You make a lot of towers
C) Your overall caster build costs more than most other builds. To make all units worth it you have to get all of their caster upgrades...except maybe Spirit Breakers, but you still need their armor upgrades to make them efficient walls.
D) Upgrades in general. You spend a lot of money on lumber upgrade, building armor upgrade, Spirit Breaker upgrade, caster upgrade, defend, long rifles (if you're fighting a lot of Destroyers), etc. It's very cost worthy. That's why no one really ugprades attack/defense other than humans.
E) A farm costs relatively the same as a moon well, ziggaurat, and orc burrow, except it doesn't yield any defense, only provides 6 food, and is the weakest of the 4. So in theory, you have to build 2 farms to get about the same results as a zigg/burrow/moon well with less defense in return and more of a risk to lose it.

Also, compared to other "T3 melee units" Knights rank 3rd among the 4 (Bears > Tauren > Knights > Aboms). Comparing air, Dhawks are only good if spammed (which costs a lot of money). Same thing goes for Gryphons.

The most common build for humans though is triple Workshop and mass Siege Tanks with a tri-hero. That is the most expensive build in the game by far and is one of the only way you can play humans competitively against other races.

edit: The only saving grace of Peasants is that Militia form is the most imba thing in T1 and completely rapes anything that will come to your base.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Knights are not as weak statistically as you might think. Their armor and hitpoints brings them up to atleast the enduance of an abomination.

No idea why bears are appearing so strong, all the times I used them they die much faster than nights.

 

[best_player_88]

The big things about economic disadvantage
edit: => The only saving grace of Peasants is that Militia form is the most imba thing in T1 and completely rapes anything that will come to your base

and when no peasants no gold and tree.

No idea why bears are appearing so strong, all the times I used them they die much faster than nights.

Run back - healer form - heal - roar - go back with full hp and + attack damage.
Knight can only run faster.

 

[En_Fuego]

In a fight, if you have 0/0 (even full upgrades it'd be the same) with Knights having their hp upgrade, 6 bear form bears will be able to kill 6 knights. The advantage of having Roar, first of all, makes them stronger. Second of all, the fact that they have Rejuvination (the most imbalanced healing spell in the game!) they become impossible to kill. Especially when you fight next to their newbwells.

edit: Also, take into consideration that knights aren't as cost efficient as bears

 

[best_player_88]

In a fight, if you have 0/0 (even full upgrades it'd be the same) with Knights having their hp upgrade, 6 bear form bears will be able to kill 6 knights. The advantage of having Roar, first of all, makes them stronger. Second of all, the fact that they have Rejuvination (the most imbalanced healing spell in the game!) they become impossible to kill. Especially when you fight next to their newbwells.

edit: Also, take into consideration that knights aren't as cost efficient as bears

1) If they are so expensive then which unit will be much more worthy its cost among the human units?

2) Imbalanced spell? of healing? well you should recall that human have spell steal which is the best counter - heal you instead - skill.

3) I was fighting Elf player 1vs1 and he was using montain jiants, I couldn't go air since he had dryad and I won by making gold mines faster than he is. Could you tell me what counter Giants? (with 5 rifles and 2 mortars and 1 paladin and 1 knight 2-5 giants was actually allways winning using noob wells and micro runing back).

 

[En_Fuego]

1) If they are so expensive then which unit will be much more worthy its cost among the human units?

The standard for humans is to mass casters or get expos, tech, and build a lot of knights/gryphs. Most players go for casters because they will end the game a lot faster. Generally when players try to go Knights/Gryphs it turns into an expo war that ends when all of the gold on the map has run dry, leading to some very long games.

2) Imbalanced spell? of healing? well you should recall that human have spell steal which is the best counter - heal you instead - skill.

Assuming that you do use Spell Steal, the standard Night Elf build to counter this is Bears/Dryads (dryads can abolish if you spell steal). Plus spell steal actually does require micro. It won't auto-cast if you plan on focus firing with your breakers.

3) I was fighting Elf player 1vs1 and he was using montain jiants, I couldn't go air since he had dryad and I won by making gold mines faster than he is. Could you tell me what counter Giants? (with 5 rifles and 2 mortars and 1 paladin and 1 knight 2-5 giants was actually allways winning using noob wells and micro runing back).

There are 2 general rules of thumb you should follow when fighting Mountain Giants.

a) ignore them and make sure you don't get caught by taunt. focus on their main forces. Giants don't really do much damage unless they're completely massed which is nearly impossible, seeing as Giants cost more food than a hero.

b) don't get caught between their main army and the giants. generally the main tactic of night elves will be to surround your army somewhere near their base and use staff of jesus to save low-hp units.

the best tactic is to make sure you keep pressure on them. if they're making mountain giants and they don't have as many expos as you, they're at a HUGE disadvantage.

 

[best_player_88]

a) ignore them and make sure you don't get caught by taunt. focus on their main forces. Giants don't really do much damage unless they're completely massed which is nearly impossible, seeing as Giants cost more food than a hero.

b) don't get caught between their main army and the giants. generally the main tactic of night elves will be to surround your army somewhere near their base and use staff of jesus to save low-hp units.

the best tactic is to make sure you keep pressure on them. if they're making mountain giants and they don't have as many expos as you, they're at a HUGE disadvantage.

First of all thanks. Still need more help , I want to know which unit is the best counter as unit type againts mass Mountain Jiants.

 

[En_Fuego]

Pretty much anything can fight mass Giants except for maybe mass Priests/Sorc. Ranged units are very effective as well (rifle/caster works well I'm guessing)

Keep in mind, I'm just theorycrafting in this post. I don't usually see Mountain Giants and when I do I usually just push them before they can get a lot.

 

[Kala]

Good way to counter Mountain Giants is making mass Knights. Normal attack-type deals 1.5x damage to mountain giants

 

[En_Fuego]

Yeah that would likely work if they only got Mountain Giants. Be careful of the rest of their army though.

The main idea is to just ignore the Giants and kill the threats.