[TC19] Grom Hellscream

[MyPad]

This comment will serve as the version tracker for the entry.

 

[MyPad]

1.0.3 Changelog:

• Added new upgrades for the Skeletal Orc Champion (locked behind a new path)
  • Supreme Toughness
    • Greatly increases the armor stat of the Skeletal Orc Champion.
    • Increases the level of the Hardened Bones ability by 1.
      • Does not actually increase the amount of damage blocked from physical attacks.
      • Increases resistance to magic damage from dispels by 33%.
  • Supreme Necromancy
    • Increases the level of the Raise Skeletal Orc Champion ability by 1.
      • Increases the spawn count from 1 to 2.
      • Increases the maximum amount of Skeletal Orc Champions from 8 to 12.
• New path created - Path of the Undying
  • Path of the Undying is a sub-path under the Path of the Warmonger.
  • Required amount of sacrifice points to unlock: 25.
• New path created - Path of the Innovator
  • Path of the Innovator is a sub-path under the Path of the Brilliant.
  • Required amount of sacrifice points to unlock: 15.
• Increased the amount of sacrifice points required for certain paths:
  • Path of the Enduring sacrifice points increased from 10 to 25.
  • Path of the Savage sacrifice points increased from 5 to 40.
  • Path of the Brilliant sacrifice points increased from 15 to 20.
  • Path of the Jaeger sacrifice points increased from 40 to 55.
• Now, there is a limit to the number of paths (upgrades) you can choose.
  • You can only select up to 4 paths at a time.
  • You can now deselect an already-selected path.
    • Be warned, doing so will lead to all dependent technologies becoming unavailable to research, construct, or train.
    • However, dependent technologies that are already undergoing research, training, or construction will still proceed as normal.
• You can now show or hide the Warsong Sacrifice UI by pressing "X".
  
  
• Lumber Harvesting upgrade moved from Industrial Mill to War Treasury.
  • Due to unforeseen shop ability interactions with the morphing ability, a workaround has been found involving the creation of the alternate form of the shop (without the shop-specific abilities).
    • Initially, an attempt to remove the items directly from the shop was made, but it didn't work as intended.
    • A workaround with the ReplaceUnit function was possible, but was not fully considered.
    • With some event bindings, a copy of the War Treasury building will be created as needed and destroyed if the original is also destroyed.
• When Grom is inside the Hellscream's Fist, the Hellscream's Fist gains the Fury of the Warsong Aura, which boosts nearby friendly units' attack by 25%.
  
  
• Hellscream's Sonata now requires an upgrade to unlock with the same name (researchable in the Siege Factory).

 

[MyPad]

1.1.0 Changelog:

• Add AI capabilities to the faction.
  • This AI is still undergoing some tests.
  • More improvements to the AI are coming, such as consideration for path upgrades.
  • Known AI-behavior related bugs:
    • AI Grom doesn't cast Bladestorm as much as expected in the battlefield. (Resolved)
    • AI Orcish Farms never sacrifice dying units. (Resolved)
      
• Warsong Sacrifice UI will now only show up for units who can be controlled by the player.
  • This includes allied units with advanced shared control enabled.
  • Previously, the Warsong Sacrifice UI will show up even when the allied unit is not controllable.
    
• Warsong Peons now have a new look befitting the Warsong Clan.
  
  
• Orc Computer players may randomly select the Warsong Clan faction.
  • They may also select paths randomly.
    
• Remove the 3 priests, who were on a vacation at the Tanaris area, from the map.
  
  
• Added a new member field to the Custom Race System used in this map:
  • fullSharedUnitControl - If set to true, this lets the player share their control with their team. This shared control is two-fold.
    
• Jaeger now benefits from attack and defense upgrades.

 

[The Nightmare Book]

Note: I had played on the very first version of this contest entry, so my video and impression may be somewhat outdated.

OVERALL, Goddammit, it was a wild ride. It was a pure example of Grommash's brute force and Warsong AI from that one mission from the Orc Campaign.
Early units, harassment in the base, strong hero, quick economy rush...

Just from BALANCE perspective I can say that this contest entry, it seems, was fully focused on the early gameplay impression and if your enemy would survive your onslaught at start, you will probably lose.
And I didn't get how we farm rage for special upgrades...


In conclusion, I liked this race. Thank you

 

[MyPad]

Thanks for that review. I have enjoyed watching your playthrough of it, and I'm glad to see that you've enjoyed the faction.

That said, the bug with the Warsong Sacrifice UI that you encountered was something I noticed after releasing the 1st version of the map.
It should be fixed in the most recent release.

I've also taken the liberty of showing the Sacrifice Points when you select Grom as well. Originally, it was just reserved to the Altar and the Farm and I used dummy abilities as a way to check whether to display the custom Warsong Sacrifice UI or not. For Grom (and the Orcish Farm), I added the Path Viewer ability. The altar has the Path Selector ability, which displays the custom UI in its full glory.

With regards to the farming of Sacrifice Points, I should've been more clear on the usage of the Orcish Farm's Sundering Ritual ability being a requirement for gaining them. Since the version that you've played, I've tweaked Grom's Haemophiliac so that he can now gain Sacrifice Points on every kill.

 

[FlameofChange]

Oh boi. I don't know what you though about balance and strategy but there's a lot of points which are all over the place, also affecting UX.
The faction is clearly unfinished, but has something to say. I think it's a matter of revamping some core elements and tweaking down units.
But anyway, here's my wall of text review !
Tested in your 1.1.0

Spoiler: Legend

From best to worse

VS] When Vinz and Spellbound makes something together on Warcraft 3

S] Great, elegant, extra thicc, easily hooks the mind

A] Good. Nothing much to say except nitpick

B] Genuinely OK, but can be better in many ways

C] Average. Not bad, not good. C- would be "meh"

D] Flawed, or insignificant

E] Unstable, badly made, or just broken

F] Fatal error, ruins the rest

Spoiler: Tier List

Aesthetics C+ How well the graphics blends with Warcraft 3 while being elegant This is very vanilla, not in a bad way. You were limited by the theme but some details felt out of place, for example the orb and the "enemy army remover" Timberfeller projectile.

Fluff N/A The epicness, spice, philosophy and background of the faction I throw a wildcard there since it's an existing lore. But from the few I know there's just Grom and his groons. It doesn't have much feel outside old horde vibes.

Feel & juice C+ (How fun is it to play the faction, how well the faction gives you positive feedback Grom is fun to play as an alternate blademaster. However the rest is too polarized between too much and too little. You get a lil' grunty at start which doesn't have much use even upgraded. Many abilities are active and blocked by mana/sacrifice walls, which doesn't make the player want to use them. An actual Farm can sacrifice stuff ? It doesn't make much sense, but so be it. Is Grom tied to greed ? The greed orb looks also off. Timberfeller eating trees to gain HP ? Grooners has gone vegan now ?

Strategy and tactic D How the mechanics blends together, giving the faction its unique approach This is where it starts to (really) hurt for two main reasons. The first is there's almost no reliable source of healing. The second is its synergy with summons. Grom would be best bro with undead with their cheap (= only costing mana) skeletons to compost in farms. Or just pick beastmaster as first hero and print Barrens' wildlife steaks into oblivion. The player doesn't want to convert gold into healing when you can just use hero spells. Your design is not as cursed as the other entries, but that makes Grom too predictable and dependent on his performance. Summons may be good on paper to help early creeping, but that just free XP for enemy heroes.

Balance E+ How its strengths leave space to the rest, does it blends gameplay-wise together with the other 4 races Oh boi. Oh boi. Not a problem of Grom, but more on his Groons. The costs, food and power level of your units sometimes are all over the place. I was tempted to put F but the broken upgrades aren't trivial to access. Furthermore the other aspects of the faction nerfs the power creep early on. I don't mind some late game factions with numerous options and stacking upgrades, but there you are selling a kidney to give AK-47 to your units. ☼ The "enemy army remover" Timberfeller is the broken doomstack. Just spam them and you win. Fast ranged AoE attack with large bonuses against buildings, can print HP back and also remove your own army due to their friendly fire. Cherry on the shit they cost 3 food while having the power (and cost) of at least 8. They can also be massed and transitioned into pretty fast. ☼ The Jaeger. Absurd price. WTF. Just limit it to one and make it like 10 food ballpark cost ? Would that be simpler ? Or also make it cost lumber to function ? I don't think it can solo a full 100 food army composition, but during its building time you just have 45 food to spare... ☼ The money printer orb is broken. 25% to gain 2% of the unit cost is on average 0.5% of the unit cost per attack. ☼ Some or your paths are utterly broken, even with a high cost ►► +50% global attack speed ? It's like having a better permanent non-dispellable bloodlust (40%) ►► Towers with bouncing attacks makes them absolutely broken since you haven't set the damage loss factor, tripling their DPS. Even with a 0.5 factor it makes them quite strong, but the upgrade also transforms your towers into US army Phalanx turrets. 6+2+2d6 every 0.6 seconds times 3, thats 70 DPS for a small tower. Compare the power cost with full upgraded towers of other faction and you will see clear problems. ►► Splintering spears TRIPLES the DPS of the spear thrower against air (yes, it's only against enemy air). Also the upgrade lies because it also increases their attack speed by 20%, so it's more like x3.6. I could go further, but you understand the point. You need to practice balance by comparing with classic features. Compute DPS, costs, test fights and analyze the results.

Content C- Does the faction feels complete compared to its intent and the other races Lacking the 2 other minimal heroes hurts the most. You might add some kind of warlock hero and Timberfeller hero to replace the unit ; make them convert their kills into sacrifice too. The grunt and raider are useless since you have an overpowered "enemy army remover" Timberfeller. Without the paths the faction doesn't have enough flexibility. Items could be more custom. Thankfully you could add hero mercenaries to fill the lacking roles.

Handling & ergonomics D Does this faction have the proper data shown, how easy is it to understand Too many active abilities, some indirectly dependent on sacrifice. The custom UI does the job but we can't see any tooltips. Units are split into many production buildings. I think you will gain a lot of UX if you made some abilities automatic or even passive, leaving more APM breathing room for the important spells. You should also specify more exactly the stats of spells and upgrades, it is not constant in your tooltips.

Triggers, code, overall polishing C Is the map correctly coded, no leaks, have efficient algorithm, are details taken care of Code-wise I have nothing to say. Could be S+ or even V&S, if you take care of the custom UI related issues (but yeah, it's a whole can of worm so I understand...). However the objects are dragging down everything, partly caused by balance. The Jaeger desc is the same as the grunt. You should put primary unlocked elements in 0-0, for example your first caster actually takes the 1-0 slot. The orb of avarice should also specify how it stacks. Remember to take care of these details as well: ☼ Damage point/backswing ☼ Projectile launch/impact ☼ Art - Walk/run speed ☼ Tooltip data pointing ☼ You don't need to put custom paths for models and active buttons. The only important thing is for disabled buttons. Because in maps with a lot of imports it makes mapping faster by just pressing the first letter of the resource in model/icon list.

Contest rules B Only relevant in a Tech tree contest The commander trope is there, but the overall balance and polishing can smash the notation either way. Beware of this.

Overall tier D This faction has qualities in its design and code, but terribly unwell exploited due to lack of polishing. Maybe you had not all the time you needed ; more importantly you had not tested it enough even against hive members. The balance is all over the place on the special units. It has potential to make Grom and his groons shine through the players (with an axe hurr durr). On the other hand you should definitely gain experience on melee balance even if right now you are able to send people to the moon with your code.

Personal taste C- No impact on the rest of the notation, just by curiosity I am not fond at all of the Grom trope, nor the lore around it. The broken elements worsened the effects. A shame since you can print top tier faction triggers. As a faction it could have some interesting elements revolving around deforestation, warriors, war machines and even corrupting himself. Overall it is too unfinished to have a definitive taste. Maybe some additional cooking would make it thicc and juicy, you have no excuses ! Don't hesitate to hit me up so I can assist you in the design and balance.

 

[MyPad]

Thanks for that comprehensive review, especially on the balance of the faction.

Based on your comments, I'm planning on making these balance changes next update:

===========================

1. Timberfeller food cost increased from 3 to 7.
   
   1. Timberfeller's Timber Health ability cost nerfed (35 wood -> 50 wood).
      
      
   2. Timberfeller's Timber Health healed amount reduced from 140 to 100.
      
      
   3. Timberfeller health reduced from 650 to 625.
      
      
2. Resource accumulation chance for the Orb of Avarice reduced from 25% to 15%.
   
   
3. Jaeger no longer benefits from armor upgrades.
   
   
4. Path of the Savage attack speed boost reduced from 50% to 15%.
   
   
5. Warsong Towers will now have 65% damage loss factor with bouncing attacks. This should tone down their explosive DPS significantly.
   
   
6. Splintering Spears description will be updated to be more transparent on the attack speed bonus. Attack speed bonus reduced from 20% to 10%.
   
   
7. Arsenal Warlock and Warsong Raider's icon positions will be switched. This includes their respective upgrades and hotkeys.
   
   The warsong raider was created first, so it held the (0, 0) icon position. The arsenal warlock came after (1, 0). I worked on the spell mechanics first before the upgrades and the Warsong UI, which led to the Warsong Raider being locked behind the Path of the Warmonger Upgrade. This was an oversight that I'm thankful that you pointed out.
   
   
8. Jaeger description to be changed.

===========================

In addition, here are some adjustments that I'm planning that aren't based on the feedback above:

Spoiler: Additional Adjustments

• The ability Hellscream's Sonata will be hidden if Path of the Innovator isn't selected.
• The corresponding Hellscream's Sonata upgrade has its research time slashed from 60 to 10.
  • As a result, this upgrade is now reversible.
• The Resource Upgrade icon should be available if Path of the Innovator is selected.
• Fix an unexpected bug that grants a unit permanent invulnerability if the Orcish Farm is destroyed while a unit is being sacrificed.
• Add a new path: "Path of Eternal Carnage"
  • Sacrifice Points cost: 45
  • This path unlocks a new passive ability: Raging Blows.
    • The passive ability has a 10% chance to proc whenever a warsong unit with the ability attacks an enemy.

After the introduction of the Sacrifice Points mechanic, I retroactively gave Grom the ability to acquire Sacrifice Points through his Haemophiliac ability, which still requires last-hits coming from him specifically to grant you some much needed Sacrifice Points.

These changes will go live after the contest ends.

 

[MyPad]

1.2.0 Changelog:

1. Timberfeller food cost increased from 3 to 7.
   1. Timberfeller's Timber Health ability cost nerfed (35 wood -> 50 wood).
   2. Timberfeller's Timber Health healed amount reduced from 140 to 100.
   3. Timberfeller health reduced from 650 to 625.
2. Resource accumulation chance for the Orb of Avarice reduced from 25% to 15%.
   
   
3. Jaeger no longer benefits from armor upgrades.
   
   
4. Path of the Savage attack speed boost reduced from 50% to 15%.
   
   
5. Warsong Towers will now have 65% damage loss factor with bouncing attacks. This should tone down their explosive DPS significantly.
   
   
6. Splintering Spears description will be updated to be more transparent on the attack speed bonus. Attack speed bonus reduced from 20% to 10%.
   
   
7. Arsenal Warlock and Warsong Raider's icon positions have been switched. This includes their respective upgrades and hotkeys.
   • The warsong raider was created first, so it held the (0, 0) icon position. The arsenal warlock came after (1, 0). I worked on the spell mechanics first before the upgrades and the Warsong UI, which led to the Warsong Raider being locked behind the Path of the Warmonger Upgrade. This was an oversight, which was thankfully pointed out.
8. Jaeger description to be changed.
   
   
9. The ability Hellscream's Sonata will be hidden if Path of the Innovator isn't selected.
   
   
10. The corresponding Hellscream's Sonata upgrade has its research time slashed from 60 to 10.
    • As a result, this upgrade is now reversible.
11. The Resource Upgrade icon should be available if Path of the Innovator is selected.
    
    
12. Fixed an unexpected bug that granted a unit permanent invulnerability if the Orcish Farm is destroyed while the same unit is being sacrificed.
    
    
13. Add a new path: "Path of Eternal Carnage"
    • Sacrifice Points cost: 45
    • This path unlocks a new passive ability: Raging Blows.
      • The passive ability has a 10% chance to proc whenever a warsong unit with the ability attacks an enemy.
14. Grom's Haemophiliac ability has been buffed.
    1. Sacrifice Points increased to 3 - 7 (previously 2 / 3 / 5) Sacrifice Points.
    2. Now activates whenever an enemy unit dies within 4 - 5 seconds of Grom (or his illusions) damaging them (except denial).
15. Arsenal Warlock's Blood Decree is now autocastable.
    • Previously based on the Lich's Frost Armor ability, the actual ability has been changed to be based on the Inner Fire ability.
    • Functional skill mechanics should remain unchanged.
16. Battering Ram's Rapid Fire ability now moved to position (2, 2) from (0, 2).
    
    
17. Battering Ram now has a new active ability: Self-Destruct!
    1. Destroys itself at a target location, dealing minor damage to nearby enemies.
18. Fixed an internal library bug that caused the identity of a given passenger's transport vehicle to remain even after unloading.

 

[deepstrasz]

Approved based on Techtree Contest #19 - Results However there's things to improve to make the gameplay more fluent and fun as well as balanced.

 

[Zentroze]

AI actually knew how to play as Grom, even selected all the specializations, looking forward to whatever custom faction/race you make next