Tanaris - Jaina Co-Op TC #19

[FlameofChange]

I'm sorry, I won't do a full review yet since the faction is ABSOLUTELY BROKEN !!!
☼ You get a peasant which can summon everywhere, 2 armor, ranged attack, gathers as fast as a ghoul ; and you spawn with 5 of these
☼ You get a warmill costing a Lumbermill
☼ Can haunt goldmines for free and super duper fast
☼ You get a farm which can be summoned everywhere with an absolutely broken regen rate, which doesn't wait for the building to be finished to be active
☼ You can proxy tower like a jackal
☼ Jaina can just spam 3 (!!!) damage dealing spells supported by the broken generator
☼ Siege tank too cheap for its stats, which are quite incoherent with the fluff, and WHY IT DOES REGENERATE ?
☼ Flying machine also too cheap, a mass of them is unstoppable ; and WHY IT ALSO REGENERATES ?!!
☼ Valkyrie absolutely broken. Cheap, hits VERY HARD, AND CAN TRIPLE ITS DPS WITH AN UPGRADE, AND COSTING ONLY 3 FOOD (this has the value of a 8-9 food)
☼ While the role of the footman is a bit useless, why you made it CHEAPER AND WITH BETTER STATS ?!
☼ You can stack 25% more HP to many combat units, even with a high cost this is outrageous

For the other easy fixes
► Why the barracks need an arcane generator ?
► Set the map from Default melee status to Melee (last patch) in map options
► Musketeer is affected by Black Gunpowder and Studded Leather Armor, but those are the vanilla Human
► Sea Marksman is mentioned in upgrades but this might be another name for Musketeer
► You don't need the ReplaceableTextures\CommandButtons path for non disabled buttons
► If you picked random in the lobby, then your faction you spawn with two times the vanilla faction
► Not picking human might not spawn your faction
► You don't even know what each variant of Jaina do in game beforehand
► Cannot hire mercenary heroes
► Goldmine isn't automatically haunted at gamestart
► Improved lumber harvesting references the stats of the vanilla upgrade, not this one
► Footman should mention the used upgrades in its tooltip
► Why Jaina can be summoned in 40 instead of 55 seconds ?
► Why you set a specific repair time of several organic units ? By convention put them at the same as the training time

Regarding the design I don't see anything standing out. Very vanilla, no clear quirk beside the starting perk. I was expecting more synergy about the sea, dalaran and machine aspects of Jaina's lore, but got an overpowered Alliance fever dream. Most of the balance are easy pickings tho, this should not be madly complicated for your experience ! If you wish to reach me to help you sort this out I'll gladly oblige. I'm always on Discord.

[Edit] More I look at it, worse it becomes...
☼ Walkyrie sound like metal... WHAT IS EVEN METAL ON ITS MODEL ?! Oh, maybe because she's metal ! (more seriously)
☼ Walkyrie armor set to medium ?!!! So their only "weakness" is gargoyles and hippogryphs...
☼ Arrow model but magic damage ?!
☼ Multishot doesn't even work because the Valkyrie attack type is set at Missile (line) ; it only works if the type is set to Missile
☼ Multishot tooltip shows the damage instead of the number of additional targets
☼ There's no required ground path for Arcane Generator. You can put them like anywhere, even on top of each others as long as the builder reaches it
☼ Speaking of the builder, it is not counted as a worker and has a pretty broken attack for a peon too
☼ Arcane generator is built in... 20 seconds.
☼ Arcane generator regen STACKS ?!!
☼ Your shop CAN GENERATE RESOURCES FOR FREE, REGARDLESS OF SUPPLY ??!! AND STILL COSTING A SHOP ??! Also the way the generation is made is janky (but it works ?!)
☼ It also continues even if the building is destroyed.
☼ You should rework your init. If the player hasn't picked human it replaces all of his units and buildings by Artificiers and instantly loses.

Again. Easy to grab fixes. Just tune down stuff and it should be better.

 

[Adiniz / Imemi]

I'm sorry, I won't do a full review yet since the faction is ABSOLUTELY BROKEN !!!
☼ You get a peasant which can summon everywhere, 2 armor, ranged attack, gathers as fast as a ghoul ; and you spawn with 5 of these
☼ You get a warmill with a lower cost
☼ Can haunt goldmines for free and super duper fast
☼ You get a farm which can be summoned everywhere with an absolutely broken regen rate, which doesn't wait for the building to be finished to be active
☼ You can proxy tower like a jackal
☼ Jaina can just spam 3 (!!!) damage dealing spells supported by the broken generator
☼ Siege tank too cheap for its stats, which are quite incoherent with the fluff, and WHY IT DOES REGENERATE ?
☼ Flying machine also too cheap, a mass of them is unstoppable ; and WHY IT ALSO REGENERATES ?!!
☼ Valkyrie absolutely broken. Cheap, hits VERY HARD, AND CAN TRIPLE ITS DPS WITH AN UPGRADE, AND COSTING ONLY 3 FOOD (this has the value of a 8-9 food)
☼ While the role of the footman is a bit useless, why you made it CHEAPER AND WITH BETTER STATS ?!
☼ You can stack 25% more HP to many combat units, even with a high cost this is outrageous

For the other easy fixes
► Why the barracks need an arcane generator ?
► Set the map from Default melee status to Melee (last patch) in map options
► Musketeer is affected by Black Gunpowder and Studded Leather Armor, but those are the vanilla Human
► Sea Marksman is mentioned in upgrades but this might be another name for Musketeer
► You don't need the ReplaceableTextures\CommandButtons path for non disabled buttons
► If you picked random in the lobby, then your faction you spawn with two times the vanilla faction
► Not picking human might not spawn your faction
► You don't even know what each variant of Jaina do in game beforehand
► Cannot hire mercenary heroes
► Goldmine isn't automatically haunted at gamestart
► Improved lumber harvesting references the stats of the vanilla upgrade, not this one
► Footman should mention the used upgrades in its tooltip
► Why Jaina can be summoned in 40 instead of 55 seconds ?
► Why you set a specific repair time of several organic units ? By convention put them at the same as the training time

Regarding the design I don't see anything standing out. Very vanilla, no clear quirk beside the starting perk. I was expecting more synergy about the sea, dalaran and machine aspects of Jaina's lore, but got an overpowered Alliance fever dream. Most of the balance are easy pickings tho, this should not be madly complicated for your experience ! If you wish to reach me to help you sort this out I'll gladly oblige. I'm always on Discord.

[Edit] More I look at it, worse it becomes...
☼ Walkyrie sound like metal... WHAT IS EVEN METAL ON ITS MODEL ?! Oh, maybe because she's metal ! (more seriously)
☼ Walkyrie armor set to medium ?!!! So their only "weakness" is gargoyles and hippogryphs...
☼ Arrow model but magic damage ?!
☼ Multishot doesn't even work because the Valkyrie attack type is set at Missile (line) ; it only works if the type is set to Missile
☼ Multishot tooltip shows the damage instead of the number of additional targets
☼ There's no required ground path for Arcane Generator. You can put them like anywhere, even on top of each others as long as the builder reaches it
☼ Speaking of the builder, it is not counted as a worker and has a pretty broken attack for a peon too
☼ Arcane generator is built in... 20 seconds.
☼ Arcane generator regen STACKS ?!!
☼ Your shop CAN GENERATE RESOURCES FOR FREE, REGARDLESS OF SUPPLY ??!! AND STILL COSTING A SHOP ??! Also the way the generation is made is janky (but it works ?!)
☼ It also continues even if the building is destroyed.
☼ You should rework your init. If the player hasn't picked human it replaces all of his units and buildings by Artificiers and instantly loses.

Again. Easy to grab fixes. Just tune down stuff and it should be better.

You probably could've given all this feedback and constructive criticism without the harsh tone.

 

[Galendor an'Kreil]

You probably could've given all this feedback and constructive criticism without the harsh tone.

I don't see harsh tone here. Only expression.
I mean, man highlights every dubious and broken decision of the mapmaker. I only hope he will save this passion when (if) I'll post my entry.

 

[Adiniz / Imemi]

I don't see harsh tone here. Only expression.
I mean, man highlights every dubious and broken decision of the mapmaker. I only hope he will save this passion when (if) I'll post my entry.

You can highlight broken balance/design decisions somebody made without spamming rage emojis and overall aggressive expression.
But I digress.

 

[jingsen]

Just tried it a little bit but faced a bit of issues
The most obvious ones I faced in the few minutes I played is

1. If you start with any race other than humans and choose Jaina, your townhall will be destroyed and replaced with an artificer (basically peasant but for Jaina's faction), and you don't get enough gold/lumber to build one from the start
2. Picking any prestige other than the 1st one will decouple the buildings from your faction > if you build your townhall and stop the progress anytime, you get the "your position will be revealed to the enemy if you don't build your townhall" issue. Building a new one doesn't fix this > you are stuck with building only default buildings and footmen as you can't build/research/train anything with dependencies.

 

[The Nightmare Book]

If there were any updates, I played at very first version of this map.
I join to everything that @FlameofChange said about the map - in version I had played it was pure fiesta of overpowerness and magic, which I had enjoyed.

Since this is your first attempt to create custom race, I can say that it's interesting enough for a first attempt.
Like!

 

[Wazzz]

You can highlight broken balance/design decisions somebody made without spamming rage emojis and overall aggressive expression.
But I digress.

I agree. There wasn't anything positive said at all. Sometimes it's not even necessarily that something negative is being said (which does seem to be the case), but it's the absence of the positive that can be quite impactful, too.

 

[Daffa]

Hydromancer is all you need my friend
Crushing Wave + Watery Chain and watch entire army and bases without spell immunity crumbles

@FlameofChange you missed this one in your review

 

[FlameofChange]

Hydromancer is all you need my friend
Crushing Wave + Watery Chain and watch entire army and bases without spell immunity crumbles

@FlameofChange you missed this one in your review

I stand corrected. Jaina was enough to carry everything so I quickly stopped.

 

[Daffa]

Please fix the Coastal Maiden path. When I lose a building, the game suddenly start the entire reveal sequence and building another Arcane Nexus doesn't even solve it.

EDIT:
This particular path (Coastal Maiden) is a slew of issues, in short, tech tree soft locks everywhere.

 

[deepstrasz]

Simple based on Techtree Contest #19 - Results Work needs to be done to get more away from the regular human techtree and balancing has to be done as well as proper implementation of the custom made system.