Sylvanas Windrunner - the bane of warcraft.

[Amigoltu]

Out of all the horribly magnificent ways that World of Warcraft defiled the Warcraft story, Sylvanas Windrunner is becoming my most hated one. From the beginning, her, and the entire Forsaken faction's addition to the Horde was absolutely insane lore-wise. But not only did Sylvanas join the Horde, but she also became the Warchief, even defeating the Val'kyr Queen...

But most infuriating of all. Apparently, she now has grown so strong, that she can single-handedly take on, and defeat, the Lich King. You know, something that all the Dreadlords and even Kil'Jaeden did not dare do themselves. Not only did she defeat LK easily, but she actually broke the helmet...

I mean, what is she even now? For all that was shown, Sylvanas may as well take on Sargeras single-handedly at this point. There's no end to her power, seemingly. All of this considering, that in Warcraft 3, Sylvanas was just an average ranger. And becoming undead did not make her much more powerful. In the lore, she wouldn't stand a chance against Arthas alone, and there's no way she would defeat LK on her own.

But this is not even me just hating Sylvanas, as much it's me hating the story writers, who apparently have completely abandoned making any sensible story, and are just writing their own fanfictions about their favourite characters...

 

[Duke]

Yeah I agree. Seems like some of the writer leads have a hard-on for her.

 

[Venombite]

This might just be me defending my favorite character, but I completely disagree.

First of all, in Warcraft 3 she isn't just an average ranger. She is the most powerful ranger in the world, second only to Tyrande, and maybe on par with Shadris and her sister, Vereesa.

When she died, she kept her ranger skills, but also became a Banshee, which granted her a lot more power.

Kil'jaeden was far more powerful than the Lich King. He just didn't want to get himself involved, as he was readying himself for another invasion of Azeroth, and he didn't want another dominant Azerothean power, the Scourge, and he wanted havoc in the world without the Lich King. Bolvar is not the same Lich King as in Warcraft 3. That Lich King, Ner'zul and Arthas were defeated in WotLK. Bolvar just gained the title to control the undead, but not the powers.

Forsaken joining the Horde doesn't make much sense, but neither do the Night Elves in the Alliance. If anything Forsaken make more sense in the Horde, cause they are the Humans that the Alliance have cast aside.

There is a whole story in both Legion and BfA, why she became a Warchief.

She didn't defeat the Val'kyr Queen. The Val'kyr Queen, Helya, was her ally. She only defeated Eyir thanks to the artifact granted to her by Helya. Eyir was Helya's second in command, and she still works for Odyn, so she's a lot weaker than Helya. Helya will probably have a role in the Shadowlands.

Of all the problems Shadowlands have, Sylvanas is the least of them. You literally get to go to Heaven and help the angels defeat the master of Hell, doesn't get more ridiculous than that.

 

[deepstrasz]

First of all, in Warcraft 3 she isn't just an average ranger. She is the most powerful ranger in the world

Warcraft III source please.

When she died, she kept her ranger skills, but also became a Banshee, which granted her a lot more power.

More like having been handicapped if you ask me.

Kil'jaeden was far more powerful than the Lich King. He just didn't want to get himself involved, as he was readying himself for another invasion of Azeroth

Don't you just love WoW apologetics.

Bolvar is not the same Lich King as in Warcraft 3.

Oh, so Bolvar was all alone on that throne? Let's say what the wiki says.

Spoiler

"Several years before Legion, a blood elf named Lyandra Sunstrider traveled to Icecrown Citadel in order to obtain the runeblade Felo'melorn. But eventually she was killed by the Scourge. Aethas Sunreaver sends an adventurer to locate Lyandra and the runeblade. Bolvar says that they can try to take the blade, but if they fail to do so, they will join the Scourge.

Bolvar also aided the Death Knights in their mission, he sends them to gather Frostmourne's shards."

So even though it doesn't look like much, what we saw in the Shadowlands intro was the most lame defense anyone could have as if Sylvanas drank a potion of invisibility, Bolvar didn't have any true sight capabilities, and the battle between them took a few minutes, time in which no body, nothing could come to Bolvar's aid.

WoW

doesn't get more ridiculous than that.

As if it didn't over the years.

 

[Shar Dundred]

Your problem is not just writers having affection for Sylvanas, your problem is that you are trying
to find sense in the nonsense that is WoW lore.

 

[deepstrasz]

Yeah I agree. Seems like some of the writer leads have a hard-on for her.

Still waiting for the actual lore

Spoiler

(characters are not real)

 

[Tuwnew]

Garithos did nothing wrong

 

[deepstrasz]

When Warcraft becomes on par with Disney.

Spoiler

More on Sylvanas:
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17613703388

 

[Venombite]

Warcraft III source please.

And what else does being Ranger General of Silvermoon mean? She is clearly the best in her kingdom, and thus on the whole continent.

More like having been handicapped if you ask me.

She gained the terrifying scream that destroys all magic, even demonic. A big power up.

Don't you just love WoW apologetics.

Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden created him. How can a creation be more powerful, than the creator. If you knew Legion, you'd know that a being such as a Lich King can not be created without "help" from the Titan of Death, the power which the two have been harassing even before Sargeras showed up.

Oh, so Bolvar was all alone on that throne? Let's say what the wiki says.

Spoiler

"Several years before Legion, a blood elf named Lyandra Sunstrider traveled to Icecrown Citadel in order to obtain the runeblade Felo'melorn. But eventually she was killed by the Scourge. Aethas Sunreaver sends an adventurer to locate Lyandra and the runeblade. Bolvar says that they can try to take the blade, but if they fail to do so, they will join the Scourge.

Bolvar also aided the Death Knights in their mission, he sends them to gather Frostmourne's shards."

So even though it doesn't look like much, what we saw in the Shadowlands intro was the most lame defense anyone could have as if Sylvanas drank a potion of invisibility, Bolvar didn't have any true sight capabilities, and the battle between them took a few minutes, time in which no body, nothing could come to Bolvar's aid.

No he had the largest armies on Azeroth. I said he didn't have those powers. Basically he's a corpse, kept in life by Alexstrasza's flames, that put the crown on his head and take command of the Scourge, so it wouldn't cause havoc across the world.

As if it didn't over the years.

No, no it didn't.

When Warcraft becomes on par with Disney.

Lol, WoW has used Disney for inspiration for years. It's nothing new. Baine's story is from "Lion King"(1994) as stated by Blizzard. Half of BfA characters are obviously from Disney. And Shadowlands evidently have a whole zone inspired by Disney.

 

[deepstrasz]

And what else does being Ranger General of Silvermoon mean? She is clearly the best in her kingdom, and thus on the whole continent.

Fair.

She gained the terrifying scream that destroys all magic, even demonic. A big power up.

Sure, that sort of lame writing could have given the character universe bending powers. Also, that's WoW.

Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden created him.

Kil'jaeden actually (RoC manual).

How can a creation be more powerful, than the creator.

Read or see I Robot, The Matrix, stuff like that?
How can a nuke obliterate its creator and more? Of course not self-consciously but you get the idea.

If you knew Legion

As if I'd want to. Plus, that's a retcon. K'j was doing mighty fine without any comic book titan of death. This retcon kills the fact that demons were capable of necromantic powers. Now they made it like they had to steal powers from others, lol. So much for demon power.

No, no it didn't.

Hard to accept it, I know.

Lol, WoW has used Disney for inspiration for years. It's nothing new. Baine's story is from "Lion King"(1994) as stated by Blizzard. Half of BfA characters are obviously from Disney. And Shadowlands evidently have a whole zone inspired by Disney.

There you have it folks!

 

[Duke]

Part of the problem is bullshit powerleveling of single characters. Back then everyone, Thrall, Jaina, Arthas, Sylvanas and even Archimonde had to actually have followers and an army to accomplish their goals. (granted that was in part that they were RTS games). But WoW became anime and now you have muh unstoppable heroes fighting it out like it's Naruto, Jaina being a one-man army, Sylvanas basically abandoning being leader of one of the most powerful factions in the world and doing it all by herself (because apparently, she can)

 

[deepstrasz]

Jaina being a one-man army

Spoiler

But WoW became anime and now you have muh unstoppable heroes fighting it out like it's Naruto

Spoiler

Sylvanas basically abandoning being leader of one of the most powerful factions in the world and doing it all by herself (because apparently, she can)

Spoiler

@Venombite if Sylvanas was so uber, what about the Archmage in that chapter ?

 

[Venombite]

@Venombite if Sylvanas was so uber, what about the Archmage in that chapter ?

Iirc, Sylvanas is actually harder to kill. That Archmage is extremely dumb, using only Brilliance Aura and is lower level than Sylvanas lol

 

[deepstrasz]

Iirc, Sylvanas is actually harder to kill. That Archmage is extremely dumb, using only Brilliance Aura and is lower level than Sylvanas lol

Poor Anasterian old but not gold.

 

[Venombite]

Poor Anasterian old but not gold.

Does Anasterian exist in RoC manual?
I think he didn't even exist back then.

 

[deepstrasz]

Does Anasterian exist in RoC manual?

Of course not but WoW fanbois say that Archmage is Anasterian.

 

[Venombite]

Of course not but WoW fanbois say that Archmage is Anasterian.

And what does TfT manual say about Kael's background? It might even be a TfT retcon, lol

 

[deepstrasz]

And what does TfT manual say about Kael's background. It might even be a TfT retcon, lol

Nothing, actually.
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne game manual

 

[Nudl9]

Why do people care about this shitshow, just stop playing and find a better game lol.

 

[deepstrasz]

Why do people care about this shitshow, just stop playing and find a better game lol.

I guess they felt their loved characters penetrated, lol.

 

[Amigoltu]

First of all, in Warcraft 3 she isn't just an average ranger. She is the most powerful ranger in the world, second only to Tyrande, and maybe on par with Shadris and her sister, Vereesa.

Most powerful in the world? No. In terms of Warcraft 3 hero power, she was nobody. Arthas easily took her down, long before he became LK. The only reason she gave him any trouble, was because she kept cutting off his routes.

When she died, she kept her ranger skills, but also became a Banshee, which granted her a lot more power.

Not really. She only changed her ranger skills a little, and got the ability to (To an extent) control undead.

Kil'jaeden was far more powerful than the Lich King. He just didn't want to get himself involved, as he was readying himself for another invasion of Azeroth[...]

That is debatable. The reason you gave - "I've no time for dis, Illidan pls do it" - is nonsensical and inaccurate. Throughout Warcraft 3, if you pay attention to the story", Dreadlords themselves expressed how their master (Kil'Jaeden) were growing wary of LK. He created the LK as his minion, yes. However, LK's power grew with every soul he consumed. Kil'Jaeden did not forsee that LK would get THIS powerful.

Why, do you think, Kil'Jaeden commanded Illidan to use such a powerful artifact as Eye of Sargeras to destroy entire Icecrown? Fact is, that Kil'Jaeden did not dare to directly confront LK. (Which is why it's absolute bullshit that in WoW, a group of players could defeat LK)

Bolvar not only got the power to control the Scourge, when he put on the helmet, but he got the LK's power - he also became stronger with every soul he got under his control. That, on top of already being a powerful paladin to begin with, AND having entire legions on his side, he would be far too much for Sylvanas to take on alone.

If anything Forsaken make more sense in the Horde, cause they are the Humans that the Alliance have cast aside.

Horde would have never accepted Lich King's minions. And that's what Forsaken are, even if they have (sort of) freewill.

There is a whole story in both Legion and BfA, why she became a Warchief.

And the whole story is absolute bollocks (just like Forsaken joining Horde), that retconns Warcraft 3-established story.

 

[Venombite]

Most powerful in the world? No. In terms of Warcraft 3 hero power, she was nobody. Arthas easily took her down, long before he became LK. The only reason she gave him any trouble, was because she kept cutting off his routes.

That's cause of Warcraft 3 gameplay reasons. Sylvanas in RoC is based on a Ranger Hero that was cut(was meant to be part of Humans), so she only has Cold Arrows(which do nothing, but slow) and Trueshot Aura. She has PotM's abilities but doesn't use them. It's also for balance reasons, cause in those missions you only have a low level Arthas.
As for the Dark Ranger, well Dark Ranger is weaker than Death Knight, just as Farseer is weaker than Blade Master.

Not really. She only changed her ranger skills a little, and got the ability to (To an extent) control undead.

Again, that's gameplay wise, lorewise she has all the powers of a Banshee and a Ranger General. And she can't control a single Undead. The Forsaken follow her on their own free will, cause she inspires them and gives them purpose. Pretty much like any (good) ruler.

That is debatable. The reason you gave - "I've no time for dis, Illidan pls do it" - is nonsensical and inaccurate. Throughout Warcraft 3, if you pay attention to the story", Dreadlords themselves expressed how their master (Kil'Jaeden) were growing wary of LK. He created the LK as his minion, yes. However, LK's power grew with every soul he consumed. Kil'Jaeden did not forsee that LK would get THIS powerful.

Why, do you think, Kil'Jaeden commanded Illidan to use such a powerful artifact as Eye of Sargeras to destroy entire Icecrown? Fact is, that Kil'Jaeden did not dare to directly confront LK. (Which is why it's absolute bullshit that in WoW, a group of players could defeat LK)

Bolvar not only got the power to control the Scourge, when he put on the helmet, but he got the LK's power - he also became stronger with every soul he got under his control. That, on top of already being a powerful paladin to begin with, AND having entire legions on his side, he would be far too much for Sylvanas to take on alone.

He lost his powers of a Paladin when Putress killed him. It's pretty clear that we kill both Arthas and Ner'zul at the end of WotLK and send all the souls free. After that he hasn't consumed that many souls, cause it was his purpose. To control the existing Scourge forces and make sure no more atrocities are committed and no more souls are consumed.

Horde would have never accepted Lich King's minions. And that's what Forsaken are, even if they have (sort of) freewill.

That's quite the opposite. They are free willed Undead. Their only purpose is to destroy the Lich Kink and take vengeance for what he's done. They are his fearsest enemies. They hate him a lot more than any other race does.

And the whole story is absolute bollocks (just like Forsaken joining Horde), that retconns Warcraft 3-established story.

That's how the franchises work, pretty much everyone of them. Wc3 is already a retcon of Wc2 Beyond the Dark Portal, which already retconed Wc2 a bit. Then TfT retcons RoC a bit. Then Classic TfT etc... In 25 years you've got a completely different story for the 10th time. All the franchises work that way, every Marvel superhero has died at least 3 times by now, lol

 

[deepstrasz]

@Venombite

 

[deepstrasz]

@Venombite

---

And a meme because we all love Reforged.

Spoiler