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Starcraft 2 >Warcraft 3 Yet?

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Just want to see if Sc2 is better than Wc3, since i see wc3 dying, but Starcraft 2 seems to be DEAD i mean even worser than wc3 status in Custom games. but that was during Wings of Liberty, has HOTS changed anything ? i hear blizzard is now a Call of duty type of Company where Quanity excels Quality, and Advertising Excels Gameplay/modding.


I heard a long time ago HOTS was going to bring back the good old clans ability from Wc3, is this true? why didnt blizzard do this in the beggining bunch of ungreatful eggheads.

Have Custom games improved to the point were modding/Custom Game clans are their and booming?
 
Lol, Starcraft 2 is far from dead. There's some really good custom map projects out there like Starcraft Universe.
But truth be told, I haven't played Starcraft 2 alot in multiplayer, because when I started, there wasn't any good custom map around (due to the fucked up popularity system) and I still had my WC3 project in the making. But the singleplayer was outstanding, so I still got my copy and will get HotS.

If anything, Bnet 2.0 was to blame for most of the issues with SC2 modding. But they fixed it over the patches (well, not completely, but at least certain parts of it).
 
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I hope now custom content will take off and new maps created. Hots did open up a lot of new models, abilities and creeps to use.
 
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Feels like a Ghostland in Wings of Liberty for anything that wasn't Normal SC2 or Solo.

I generally quit my main sc2 experience after 4 days(Risk was boring & finished Campaign, and Wc3 shadowed it) , Wc3 - 2,984 hours, which means i played around 80 minutes daily.
 

Dr Super Good

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i hear blizzard is now a Call of duty type of Company where Quanity excels Quality, and Advertising Excels Gameplay/modding.
I would not trust anything said by things that live under bridges.

I heard a long time ago HOTS was going to bring back the good old clans ability from Wc3, is this true?
Clans are in WoL as well. Some of the features were back-ported while others are unique to HotS.

why didnt blizzard do this in the beggining bunch of ungreatful eggheads.
BattleNet 2.0 seemed rather rushed and aimed at morons originally. They soon realised that they cannot take a FPS competitive style approach to custom content so now they have reverted to WC3 style. In fact, it is now better than WC3 as host bots have turned WC3 into exactly what SC2 was when it was released while SC2 has got custom game hosting similar to what WC3 had on release (you can see games with players in the lobby).

Have Custom games improved to the point were modding/Custom Game clans are their and booming?
No, but the problem is not SC2 but more the lack of talented map making players that WC3 was fortunate enough to have. There are a few maps that shine through as far as quality goes which shows how much better SC2 is compared to WC3 but most of the maps are rushed jobs made by clueless kids.
 
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Galaxy editor surely need some modifications in order to be closer to perfection because the thing that make starcraft and warcraft a place people prefer is the ability to be a God. Without World Editor, Star Editor there is no way it becomes, what people used to say, legend. Starcraft 2 is developing and we all can only hope they know what they are doing so that legend can succeed legend.

This is a personal and general opinion so i don't need anyone point at me and criticize me because my opinions is ... personal and too general without evidences.
 
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The Galaxy editor rocks. I don't think the problem is galaxy editor, people would learn to use it. It really doesn't matter how easy they make the editor, if the vehicle for playing those maps are not there, and it isn't. That was the complaint since beta and a fix is way too late now.

But back to galaxy editor, it is just awesome! I think so at least, here's a video that's made with mostly trigger work. However, the data editor is really horrendous to use, people should avoid using that unless necessary! Probably way more can be done if there's an active modder community.

Starcruisers test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdpFq1a_qdU
 

Dr Super Good

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Nukes do not make mushroom clouds in space... As there is no pressure and limited gravity they would make a sphere with maybe distortions based on the charge distribution. Welcome to physics.

To make nukes more realistic, use an extremely bright light emitter, so for about 0.2-0.4 seconds the screen is over exposed to some extent. The AoE of nukes in space would also be a little larger as there is little to stop the shockwave (only the natural power degradation with radius).
 
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However, the data editor is really horrendous to use, people should avoid using that unless necessary! Probably way more can be done if there's an active modder community.
Horrendous? No, unless you're doing advanced actor work (I avoid that for a very good reason). Slow as hell? Absolutely.

Once you understand the principles behind how the Data Editor works, it becomes fairly straightforward. You just need to understand the numerous steps involved in creating abilities. For a more complex ability, you will most likely find yourself moving back and forth between the Behaviors, Effects, and Abilities tabs making stuff constantly. It is possible to understand, however, and with a proper investment of time and patience you can potentially do almost anything. If you discount victory conditions and selectable factions (the kind of thing that actually lets you pick, say, Gondor or Mordor or Eriador in a map about the War of the Ring, since Blizzard in their idiocy failed to include this by default), you could make an entire map without a single trigger involved.


Back to the custom mapping community: There are some really good creations, you just have to know where to look. Admittedly, this can be a difficult task, since there is still the usual flood of mediocre maps to sift through. I'll try listing off a few maps right here:
Smashcraft (3v3 hero arena) - A fun game, very well-made, lacking in any real bugs. It comes with a selection of 5 heroes in each of 4 categories. Four maps are available as options, and it comes complete with a Rematch option when one team wins the best of 5 battle. There is also another map, Smashcraft Legacy, that has another four maps included for a grand total of eight arenas.
StarWars Assault (3v3 or 5v5 battle with fighters, complete with custom models and icons) - This is fairly straightforward. You pick a side (Rebels or Imperials), pick a fighter (5 choices per side), pick some abilities and passive skills, and then fight for five rounds (you are allowed to repick your fighter after every round). Each team starts with a certain amount of points, and points are lost by the loss of fighters (fighters have a cost value).
Heaven Besieged (Siege map, picture something like Helm's Deep) - A fairly straightforward siege map, much like the Heaven's Last Stand maps from SC1.
Siege of Nox Castle (Siege map, this one made by me) - A map based on one of the Fire Emblem games, with upgrades that can be purchased by killing enemy heroes. It also includes some flying units.
There is also the LotR-ish community (the chat channel is "lotr"), with over a dozen maps, for those that care for that gameplay style. The community currently consists of around thirty to forty members, so games can go up fairly often (the majority of maps are seven or eight players, with the extremes at five and ten).
 
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Actually, I have zero clue on what a nuke would look like in space. What do you mean by light emitter? The only light emitter I know is the doodad 'omni lights'. Is that what you mean? The concern isn't the lighting itself, but the need for an actual effect model so players can know where the nuke detonated. If you find a better effect model, let me know. I like your description of nuke better.

I remember Smashcraft. The few times I tried to play, I waited a few minutes in an empty lobby before giving up. hehe. I'm sure there's ways to play a map by searching for hardcore players outside the 'hosting system'. They are around, even Starcruisers has its little tiny group of hardcore players. They have been telling me to update Starcruisers since the original was released years ago!

Oh about the data editor. It is quite powerful for sure. A lot of the triggers are used in conjuction with the data editor. That is, all abilities are done through triggers, but they do need the data editor to set them up. The movement for examples, uses 'abilities' instead of the 'key pressed' event. And many many special effects are called by the data editor itself by using 'apply behavior' effect. And many effects on units are done through the behavior data. I'm just noticing a lot of modders are really concerned about doing everything they can through data editor and avoiding triggers because they are 'inefficient'.
 

Dr Super Good

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Actually, I have zero clue on what a nuke would look like in space.
Probably as a huge boring spherical like explosion.

The mushroom cloud is not unique to atomic weaponry, it occurs for any large scale explosion.

What is a trade mark to atomic weaponry is the intense burst of light that comes off during an explosion. This is so powerful that it will literally vaporize the surface of objects for a long distance (and is why anyone who looks at a nuke goes instantly blind).

What would be cool is if you can create the blinding light effect of nukes. So when a nuke impacts the screen lights up similar to some RTS games like Empire Earth. You might want to apply limits to prevent the player going totally blind from multi nuke attacks but the idea is that they look damn cool to use. For the explosion itself, a photon cannon projectile that scales over some duration could be used (the explosion).

I am not entirely sure how to do the lighting part, but maps such as Undead Assault use lighting to accurately create flairs and things. If you set the brightness to something extreme it should cause all surfaces facing the light source to become over exposed. An overall screen brightening could be done by changing a player's lighting based on their camera position. If the player has visual sight of the nuke, then they should over expose their screen so they get a feeling of the intensity. If they do not have visual on the explosion, then the light emitter should be sufficient.
 
So far I have only heard bad news when it comes to sc2 modding.
when I started, there wasn't any good custom map around (due to the fucked up popularity system)
Has that system been removed yet?

If anything, Bnet 2.0 was to blame for most of the issues with SC2 modding. But they fixed it over the patches (well, not completely, but at least certain parts of it).
So how is the situation now? Are there still many glaring issues?
What are the biggest problems at the moment?
 
When did you last play? I already answered that many times.
When did I last play sc2? That would be never.
Didn't notice that first post of yours, it's good to hear the hosting works like wc3 now.

Not enough map makers who want to make decent maps. Only kids who like messing around with the editor.
I see.
Are you sure the problem isn't the editor being convoluted and clumsy enough to kill off the more ambitious projects?
 
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I'm just noticing a lot of modders are really concerned about doing everything they can through data editor and avoiding triggers because they are 'inefficient'.
That would include me. I prefer to use the Data Editor because the results are much easier to duplicate (many of the abilities, weapons, and so on that I make in my maps have to go to more than one unit, or be used in multiple situations, etc.). If you use triggers to help with abilities, then it tends to become harder to make the ability usable on more than one unit. I prefer to keep my options open about how to assign abilities and so on, because my original plans are frequently upended for various reasons. Unit spawning (picture the periodic spawning of units from bases of a LotR-ish or Diplomacy map) is usually an exception, since it is a great deal less complicated to manage spawn locations through pre-placed points, rather than unit facing and Create Persistent effect offsets. The exception to this exception (yes, I know that that sounds odd) is if you are having it randomly create X units from a selection of Y different units. I actually did this in one of my maps, hence how I know the pains of using data-only spawning systems. Such a system might, say, create two archers and a knight in one spawn, with a soldier, a crossbowman, and a longbowman in the second spawn, and three swordsmen in the spawn after that.

As a side note, if anybody is actually interested in viewing the details of how I did this (along with other data-only wonders, like a detailed unit promotion system and thorough hit/miss/critical chances on all weapons, as well as custom weaponry and missile movers), then feel free to go on SC2 online and ask me there (my username is Palamani there as well, and I am a resident of the channel "lotr". I usually make it online several times a week), and I can send you a copy of the map (for those who want to just play it and see the stuff in action, the name of the map is Fire Emblem-Radiant Dawn). Be warned; it probably looks like a horribly baffling mess to everybody besides myself, so be prepared to wade through gigantic hordes of data.
 
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So far I have only heard bad news when it comes to sc2 modding.

Originally Posted by Zwiebelchen
when I started, there wasn't any good custom map around (due to the fucked up popularity system)

Has that system been removed yet?

Originally Posted by Zwiebelchen

If anything, Bnet 2.0 was to blame for most of the issues with SC2 modding. But they fixed it over the patches (well, not completely, but at least certain parts of it).

So how is the situation now? Are there still many glaring issues?
What are the biggest problems at the moment?

Since when did the opinion of some casual matter so much? What does Zwiebel know, there are a lot better and people that actually got deep into it since WoL before starting to form an opinion. There were problems but now there is improvement.

Originally posted by DSG
Not enough map makers who want to make decent maps. Only kids who like messing around with the editor.

Eh check SC2Mapster, they do not do lame games like 'Big Game Hunters, unlimited minerals for n00bz), they do quite decent maps some of them, especially the melee - both knowledge about balance and awesome terrain, but good custom maps too.

In fact, if some don't change this place moving the focus away from war3, I would suggest going to SC2Mapster, there is a lot more to see there...
 
Since when did the opinion of some casual matter so much? What does Zwiebel know, there are a lot better and people that actually got deep into it since WoL before starting to form an opinion. There were problems but now there is improvement.

Yes, I was going to ask a SC2 fanboy but you hadn't joined the website back then.

Eh check SC2Mapster, they do not do lame games like 'Big Game Hunters, unlimited minerals for n00bz), they do quite decent maps some of them, especially the melee - both knowledge about balance and awesome terrain, but good custom maps too.

In fact, if some don't change this place moving the focus away from war3, I would suggest going to SC2Mapster, there is a lot more to see there...
Ah, the only decent maps are melee maps?
I see. Thanks for confirming Dr Super Good's point about there only being kids messing with the editor.
 
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No, make your opinion based on the feedback of many, not a single member who said he didn't like it...

Not at all, I shouldn't have even mentioned meele maps cause they take little part of what is being done. Most maps made are custom, some are good but since I don't play much custom games I can't speak well, though frm the video trailers they put (check mapster) they look cool.

Eitherway, if ppl are trying to make fun maps than boring campaigns that only members of a closed community play it and no one knows about them outside (like it happens here with war3 in this site)

Well it's not my duty to convince you, I am only correcting you on the incredibly wrong approach - to take some 3 year old comment from some random guy and use this as your truth...
 
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