SoWT map compressor expert

[Garodar]

Still looking for someone experienced in map compressing, models animation delete, models size reduce, useless cleanups.

If anyone can join our team just for a while and help us get this map size decreased to 8Mbs, because we are so close in finishing this project.

Let me know here.

 

[edo494]

how big is the map right now?

 

[noob]

It is 90Mb huge or something of this order of size.
Most of the size coming from 3D models and textures.

 

[Garodar]

It's actually 52Mbs. We've cleaned what can be cleaned from scripts, triggers and useless 3D sounds that are not being used.

 

[edo494]

I dont think it is possible to compress 52 MB map to 8 MB. You will have to say good bye to some of the models, or blps(images). However with good compression methods, you can get the size really down. For instance dota's script is 2.9 Megs raw size, and compressed it is merely 490 KBs in size, which is huge reduction

 

[Garodar]

Actually, atm, we've deleted several modes that are useless and not being used, plus take alot of space.

The map is now 49,6 Mbs.

Reminder, don't go off topic. If you can help us, let us know. What we need is somebody to compress it and sh!t.

We'd really appreciate if someone can help us.

 

[Arhowk]

Actually, atm, we've deleted several modes that are useless and not being used, plus take alot of space.

The map is now 49,6 Mbs.

Reminder, don't go off topic. If you can help us, let us know. What we need is somebody to compress it and sh!t.

We'd really appreciate if someone can help us.

The issue is there is no such thing of what you're looking for. There is no "compression" besides vex's optimizer, mdx squisher, and blp lab (cant rmbr if the last 2 are included in vex's)

Also, edo is correct, you wont be able to get down to 8mb. With all known compression techniques, the highest that I'm able to go is 13mb. Do you have alot of sounds?

 

[Garodar]

The issue is there is no such thing of what you're looking for. There is no "compression" besides vex's optimizer, mdx squisher, and blp lab (cant rmbr if the last 2 are included in vex's)

Also, edo is correct, you wont be able to get down to 8mb. With all known compression techniques, the highest that I'm able to go is 13mb. Do you have alot of sounds?

Yes, and I'm preparing to remove 40% of the sounds that are useless... right now, atm...

I mean, "Heroes Return" map contains over 250 3D models and it's 8mb. I do now know how but it is 8MB. How other people manage to do that? I will try to remove all useless sounds and check its size then. If it jumps down to 30-25 MBs, will the map have any chances if you or somebody wants to help?

 

[Kino]

I will try to remove all useless sounds and check its size then. If it jumps down to 30-25 MBs, will the map have any chances if you or somebody wants to help?

You're not even bothering to listen to anything anyone said.

Its not about whether people are going to help you, its about the fact there is no way to compress something so poorly optimised to 8mb.

 

[Garodar]

You're not even bothering to listen to anything anyone said.

Its not about whether people are going to help you, its about the fact there is no way to compress something so poorly optimized to 8mb.

If you read this topic from post to post, you would realized there is a possibility.

So, there is no chance for 30 Mb to go down to 8Mbs. I've actually pushed it down on 34. I'll do 1 final cleanup...

... and if you read Arhowk's comment, then there i possibility.

For 1, I didn't highly asked for multiplayer. I ask people to try. People that know how to do it and give their best shot to make it 7.30 Mb.

I think it should be easy enough with 30-25 Mbs. If you can't help, then I would appreciate if you don't comment anymore. If somebody thinks he can compress it to 8-7 MB, let me know.

 

[edo494]

It can be possible, but depends on what files your map has. As I said, dota's jass script is 80% compressed, but for instance a lot of fhe models even with zlib compression have no difference in size. You can try the blplab, or however is that called as well as GhostWolf's mdx squisher to see how low you can get

 

[Kino]

... and if you read Arhowk's comment, then there i possibility.

I don't think you understand what he means.

What Arhowk mentioned is exactly the same as what Im telling you. Compression isn't a matter of getting some super talented "compression expert" to work for you, its about whether your map is chock full of shit to the point the available tools (ie. the Optimizer for most part) is able (or not) to meaningfully compress it.

 

[Garodar]

I don't think you understand what he means.

What Arhowk mentioned is exactly the same as what Im telling you. Compression isn't a matter of getting some super talented "compression expert" to work for you, its about whether your map is chock full of shit to the point the available tools (ie. the Optimizer for most part) is able (or not) to meaningfully compress it.

Luckily, it's not full of sh!t, its emptied, cleaned of useless stuff and I just need someone to compress it as best as possible. You're right, I don't need expert, I need someone to do it.

 

[Kino]

Luckily, it's not full of sh!t, its emptied, cleaned of useless stuff and I just need someone to compress it as best as possible. You're right, I don't need expert, I need someone to do it.

The thing is that the tools are free to download.
Whether you do it yourself or if someone else does it will not change the amount of compression you get.

 

[Garodar]

The thing is that the tools are free to download.
Whether you do it yourself or if someone else does it will not change the amount of compression you get.

...

That's the problem. I do not know how to use those tools. I always mess something up. I search for guides and I find 3 pages of pointless guides on how to nerf something up. Even when I do it, it doesn't work.

I do not understand things that are more than 'simple english'...

I wouldn't search somebody if I knew how to do it and download tools.

 

[Kino]

You import the map into the Optimizer.
You press the optimize button

What about that is not working for you?

 

[Garodar]

You import the map into the Optimizer.
You press the optimize button

What about that is not working for you?

Because it makes the map 33% times bigger. I also need someone to compress models, and do the shadow thingy or something...

I won't go off-topic anymore. I asked for help, not an argument. If you can't help, then don't post a comment.

 

[edo494]

Because it makes the map 33% times bigger. I also need someone to compress models, and do the shadow thingy or something...

I won't go off-topic anymore. I asked for help, not an argument. If you can't help, then don't post a comment.

how hard can it be to download program and input your models into it

 

[Garodar]

how hard can it be to download program and input your models into it

Simple, I don't know how to to it for god sake. It doesn't work for me. I tried and I got model broken. Then, I had to search all over the forum to find it again because it was only in request section.

As I've said, don't go off-topic. If you can't help, then atleast, refrain from commenting.

 

[edo494]

back up your map before you try optimizing

try this out: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/tools-560/mdx-m3-optimizer-243674/ for models

 

[Garodar]

back up your map before you try optimizing

try this out: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/tools-560/mdx-m3-optimizer-243674/ for models

How 'bout linking all programs that can help me compress my map to 7MB and explain how each program works in 1 sentence?

This tool I downloaded doesn't even work.

 

[Arhowk]

How 'bout linking all programs that can help me compress my map to 7MB and explain how each program works in 1 sentence?

This tool I downloaded doesn't even work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

understand the task your asking is not possible there is no ifs, and, or buts about it. you need to physically remove asset files.

 

[Kino]

I won't go off-topic anymore. I asked for help, not an argument. If you can't help, then don't post a comment.

Helping you is off-topic?
Now that's something new.

Better yet, if youre going to diss the very people that help you, then don't ask for it.
Your command of English is good enough to tell us to fuck-off, therefore it is good enough to use the optimizer.

 

[Tal'Rarity]

Don't be so rude guys, calm down really.

They're right, if your map is full of models and textures then your SOL. If you got a sound/music file that is 20mb then it is a different story. Otherwise you can't reduce data any further without actually removing it. Just ask people to advance to what should of been the next age of WC3 gaming years ago. Nobody wants to DL 8mb+ maps and well if they do then there is seriously a issue here.

So here you go, a method for Multiplayer/LAN gameplay on BNET too, just enable local files and tell people to put the imports into their main Warcraft folder. You just have to name a folder a certain name.

Here's the link;

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...r-bypassing-8mb-file-size-limitations-253288/

 

[Garodar]

Don't be so rude guys, calm down really.

They're right, if your map is full of models and textures then your SOL. If you got a sound/music file that is 20mb then it is a different story. Otherwise you can't reduce data any further without actually removing it. Just ask people to advance to what should of been the next age of WC3 gaming years ago. Nobody wants to DL 8mb+ maps and well if they do then there is seriously a issue here.

So here you go, a method for Multiplayer/LAN gameplay on BNET too, just enable local files and tell people to put the imports into their main Warcraft folder. You just have to name a folder a certain name.

Here's the link;

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...r-bypassing-8mb-file-size-limitations-253288/

I didn't understood a thing in that guide. To be more specific, I don't understand more than simple english. What programs I need there, what is mdl, what is what there... ????
I don't understand that guide, sorry...

... and if optimizer did his job and compressed it, I would more than use it... Instead, it makes my map 15-33% times bigger.

... as I've said... the only help you can do on this topic is not to provide links, instead, help by compressing it yourself if you know how to do it.

I tried and my model was either wasn't working or it was screwed. You're going off-topic by just commenting something not related to the tittle. I'm looking for someone who can do this, compress the map and not screw it like I did several times... someone that knows how... I'm not screwing off you guys... I'm trying to tell you that I can't do it.... simple...

There are around 1000 of people that managed to compress their maps with over 100 3D models and if they can, why my map wouldn't do the trick with 15 models?

If 37MB cannot be compressed down to 7.30, then let me clearly know.... then I'll just wonder how other people manage to compress their maps. Thanks for the links, but I managed nothing with it.

 

[Kino]

... and if optimizer did his job and compressed it, I would more than use it... Instead, it makes my map 15-33% times bigger.

As I already asked...

You import the map into the Optimizer.
You press the optimize button

What about that is not working for you?

What settings are you using?
What fields have you checked?
Did you run the map through any other program before using the Optimizer?

The only response you gave is "lol off topic, fuckoff please".

There are around 1000 of people that managed to compress their maps with over 100 3D models and if they can, why my map wouldn't do the trick with 15 models?

As I said in the first post, its nothing to do with how many imports there are, but instead what the imports are.

 

[noob]

Those maps with 100 3D models have often small 3D models which are not 213412 polygons 3D models with 2048 height and width textures for each polygon see in the 3D model section there is some really good 3D models who take less than 30KB for example:Drillbot

 

[Garodar]

So, what are you suggesting noob? (no offense, that's ur forum name) ???

Well, check anreariona's "Heroes Return" project and check the models. They're all WoW-like and I do now know if he/she ripped them by him/herself and made it smaller, but I do know those models aren't anythin' close to Wc3.

@kino

I use imports from Warcraft Underground forums. They're WoW-like 3D models. They do have minimum size but every model is different... some have 1 milion of animations, some, only 5.... idk...

What do you mean by "what imports are"...

 

[Kino]

What do you mean by "what imports are"...

The size of each import matters more than the actual number of imports.

some have 1 milion of animations

Well theres your problem.

 

[Garodar]

The size of each import matters more than the actual number of imports.



Well theres your problem.

I've downed animations of models that have alot of them... and screwed up some of them.

So, Mdlvis does the trick for model compressing by just clicking, or what...

I mean, I use huge structure with up to 3MB, and how do I compress the .mdx file. The structure has no animations or anything.

 

[Tal'Rarity]

I didn't understood a thing in that guide. To be more specific, I don't understand more than simple english. What programs I need there, what is mdl, what is what there... ????
I don't understand that guide, sorry...

... and if optimizer did his job and compressed it, I would more than use it... Instead, it makes my map 15-33% times bigger.

... as I've said... the only help you can do on this topic is not to provide links, instead, help by compressing it yourself if you know how to do it.

I tried and my model was either wasn't working or it was screwed. You're going off-topic by just commenting something not related to the tittle. I'm looking for someone who can do this, compress the map and not screw it like I did several times... someone that knows how... I'm not screwing off you guys... I'm trying to tell you that I can't do it.... simple...

There are around 1000 of people that managed to compress their maps with over 100 3D models and if they can, why my map wouldn't do the trick with 15 models?

If 37MB cannot be compressed down to 7.30, then let me clearly know.... then I'll just wonder how other people manage to compress their maps. Thanks for the links, but I managed nothing with it.

Then translate it to your first language and give it a re-try. You only need common sense and Warcraft is the only program needed. . . mdl is the format used by Warcraft for models. . . mdl/mdx. Optimizing can only do so much, You have to erase as much data as possible from the models you want to use so they don't take up space. My method lets you use anything though since it reads your imports directly from your computers Warcraft directory. Like I said, give it a go at translating it to your language.

 

[noob]

To garodar
100 3D models who take only 30KB take an space of 3M only and so it is not an problem having an map with many 3d models if they are small but yours are huge because they are not made for WC3 but for wow and so the 3D modelers who made those 3D models did not through to make models with an concept allowing to take few space and no amount of compression optimization and of necromantic magic for reanimating the 3D modelers who made them will allow to make them take only 30KB except if you loose quality, remove animations and reduce the number of polygons and do weird unwraps for using WC3 texture only but then it is better to do your own 3D models instead of using wow ones.
You said you had 3D models having one million of animations know that the 3D models of WC3 usually have from one to twelve animations(except for some morphing units)
So open them with one 3D model editor and remove any animation you do not think the unit will use and you will economize some KB for each removed animation and if you remove one million of animations you will economize between 1000KB and 4000KB

 

[Garodar]

To garodar
100 3D models who take only 30KB take an space of 3M only and so it is not an problem having an map with many 3d models if they are small but yours are huge because they are not made for WC3 but for wow and so the 3D modelers who made those 3D models did not through to make models with an concept allowing to take few space and no amount of compression optimization and of necromantic magic for reanimating the 3D modelers who made them will allow to make them take only 30KB except if you loose quality, remove animations and reduce the number of polygons and do weird unwraps for using WC3 texture only but then it is better to do your own 3D models instead of using wow ones.
You said you had 3D models having one million of animations know that the 3D models of WC3 usually have from one to twelve animations(except for some morphing units)
So open them with one 3D model editor and remove any animation you do not think the unit will use and you will economize some KB for each removed animation and if you remove one million of animations you will economize between 1000KB and 4000KB

Yea, every model now has less then 12 animations but some have huge size and 6 animations..

I was wondering... is there any other prograrm I can use to compress .mdx files but mdx squisher and mdlvis?

mdx squisher does nothing... no size changes but quality...

I use blp lab to compress .blp and its working effectively...

... but ... mdx are the most troublesome ones. I don't know how to optimize, compress them on any other way... and even when I do, they're still pretty huge...

... and as for wc optimizer, that sh!t keeps increasing my size no matter what I do... is it my wc3 version, or what... ???

 

[Tal'Rarity]

mdx squisher does reduce the size, you just don't notice it until you save it into the map.

 

[Garodar]

mdx squisher does reduce the size, you just don't notice it until you save it into the map.

Well, it spawns...

1 example.

I get "morchok.mdx" and "morchok_squished.mdx"... which one I import into the map... or what do I do with it...

... and... if you know... why my optimizer increases size all the time??

 

[edo494]

you have to use the _squished model, because that has reduced size

 

[Garodar]

you have to use the _squished model, because that has reduced size

I still don't notice file difference even if imported, but I guess it did the trick and quality is a bit lower but still nice...

... now... what else is there...

... how do I compress sound itself? Now, I don't want to cut off some sounds, or anything... I just want them all compressed... I have 1 mp3 sound file that's atleast 1 MB... compressing them all could save alot of space...

Also, is there any other program for model compressing... just compressing buildings... huge buildings such as Wyrmrest Temple...

1 more thing, I really need yours or someone help with my map optimizer... it keeps making my map 15-33% bigger, instead of smaller. With those 25%, my map would be lower than 7MB because the map size is now 28 MB. It keeps making it bigger... I was wondering if you'd give it a try and compress it yourself?

 

[noob]

For compressing MP3 the only way is to reduce quality but if it looks really like an midi music you can create an scripted midi player in jass and then play the music using this way only one partition and an pack of notes.
Also when people talk of reducing of 25 percent the size it means that 100KB becomes 75 and not 25 so you make an error of an factor three.
For the building you could separate one of them into 20-30 pieces you would use for create the others by assembling them in the WC3 map editor like if it were Lego.
But that would work only if their architectures have stuff in common.

 

[Garodar]

For compressing MP3 the only way is to reduce quality but if it looks really like an midi music you can create an scripted midi player in jass and then play the music using this way only one partition and an pack of notes.
Also when people talk of reducing of 25 percent the size it means that 100KB becomes 75 and not 25 so you make an error of an factor three.
For the building you could separate one of them into 20-30 pieces you would use for create the others by assembling them in the WC3 map editor like if it were Lego.
But that would work only if their architectures have stuff in common.

I didn't understood the thing you said but...

How do I fix wc3 optimizer?

 

[noob]

It is well known that most of the WC3 optimizer increase the size of the maps in awkward cases but I do not know why but you can give an try and look at the hexadecimal structure of the maps and do reverse engineering of the WC3 map format and then do the usual stuff of the removing of WE only related data(WE add an lot of stuff useful for him when he wants to edit the map) and then do common optimization to triggers and other kind of stuff and then you can publish your map optimizer in the tool section and create tutorials about this.
but maybe map optimizer does not means if is for optimizing size as it increase the map speed and so it can be logic it increase the size if it thinks "by turning this trigger of 100 lines into 412 lines of code who do 150 tricks it will work faster as those 100 lines of code used one terribly long to use function and I will in-line 12 functions who are called only three times and so should have been in-lined by the coder"
Where did go vexorian optimizer?
It was in tool section an long time ago.

 

[Garodar]

It is well known that most of the WC3 optimizer increase the size of the maps in awkward cases but I do not know why but you can give an try and look at the hexadecimal structure of the maps and do reverse engineering of the WC3 map format and then do the usual stuff of the removing of WE only related data(WE add an lot of stuff useful for him when he wants to edit the map) and then do common optimization to triggers and other kind of stuff and then you can publish your map optimizer in the tool section and create tutorials about this.
but maybe map optimizer does not means if is for optimizing size as it increase the map speed and so it can be logic it increase the size if it thinks "by turning this trigger of 100 lines into 412 lines of code who do 150 tricks it will work faster as those 100 lines of code used one terribly long to use function and I will in-line 12 functions who are called only three times and so should have been in-lined by the coder"
Where did go vexorian optimizer?
It was in tool section an long time ago.

Well, this guy "Dr Super Good" told me, that .wav sounds are guilty in this case...

... but I could try the method to remove We data and do the normal optimization but I won't be able to edit he map anymore.

 

[Kino]

... but I could try the method to remove We data and do the normal optimization but I won't be able to edit he map anymore.

You do your editing on the unoptimized version
You only optimize for the actual release

 

[Garodar]

My map is getting smaller now... but I'm not satisfied with it. 7% smaller is like 2MB... I need it 80% smaller as Vexorian said in his guide its possible or whoever made the guide.

 

[edo494]

you really dont understand how this works...

The fact that one map is compressable by 80% doesnt mean every map is guaranteed to be compressed by 80%

 

[Garodar]

you really dont understand how this works...

The fact that one map is compressable by 80% doesnt mean every map is guaranteed to be compressed by 80%

... well, yea... but its not impossible... I mean, map is now 24 MB... and if optimizing downed it, the map would be ready.

... is there really no way???

 

[noob]

There is no other way than to loose information.
Remove some not really needed models and use WC3 ones or use smaller models fitting or even change your units so they correspond to an smaller 3D model there is many great <30KB models it is just that you will learn to do something fitting to the model instead of doing something randomly and deciding that the only fitting model is an 242333 polygons hybrid spiderhydra of magical doom(with 3333 bones just for his cape) with an infinite number of particle emitters and who have been ripped from Rage 2132134123²

 

[Garodar]

There is no other way than to loose information.
Remove some not really needed models and use WC3 ones or use smaller models fitting or even change your units so they correspond to an smaller 3D model there is many great <30KB models it is just that you will learn to do something fitting to the model instead of doing something randomly and deciding that the only fitting model is an 242333 polygons hybrid spiderhydra of magical doom(with 3333 bones just for his cape) with an infinite number of particle emitters and who have been ripped from Rage 2132134123²

... and do what? Delete all models but bosses and use some shitty models?

I've deleted everything useless from the map. Even those that were in use were deleted... some of them... I got nothing left to delete or compress...

... aren't there any other methods left. I got all models from map I use now stored in my document files (the compressed ones) and if there is any other method to compress, let me know. (so far, i've used mdlvis for animations wipeout, and compression, a little bit, blp lab for textures and it works awesome, mdx squished to squish compressed mdx)

 

[noob]

Nope if you find an dozen of models as much awesome as the Drillbot it will make your map better(also know I find uglier WOW 3d models because they are not as much characteristic when seen from WC3 cam).
Also I wonder if ogg and flack(do not really remember of the true name of the format) works for the sound in WC3 then maybe some of yours sound would be smaller in ogg or flack.
if you think that graphics>anything in all the universes then you can instead of trying to reduce your map to 8 mb(in fact the limit is 8192KB) try the local file method but it need five additional clicks for people downloading your map in the forum and no one can get it with only BN DL they will also need to download the local files(personally the only reason I do not have yet enabled local files is because there is not yet maps using it which is sad).

 

[Dr Super Good]

Also I wonder if ogg and flack(do not really remember of the true name of the format)
works for the sound in WC3 then maybe some of yours sound would be smaller in ogg or flack.

Chances are not. WC3 is not a music player. It struggles to even run some MP3s at times. Even when compressed audible music/sound is still large in WC3 terms.

For this reason 99% of maps never touch imported sounds.