Searing Arrows-based spells "missing" on use?

[lemonkeyface]

Hello

In my map, I have a melee hero whom I want to use a long range Searing Arrow-based spell. The problem is, every time the spell is used, a little "miss" pops up, no missile is created, and no damage is dealt.

I couldn't find much on Searing Arrow mechanics, but please excuse me if this has already been covered in another thread.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Kino]

Searing Arrows and related moves are hard coded to be very limited.
They may bug if.
- A cooldown of any sort is used
- Have a range different than the caster's normal attack range

Think about it this way, if it were so easy to create a melee/ranged swap that's not based on transformation, people would have done it. a lot.

 

[lemonkeyface]

Is there then no other good way of applying autoattack-damage over long distances for a melee hero?

 

[Kino]

Do you want a active buff where you can attack at range or do you want a 1 time use ability that deals attack damage.

 

[lemonkeyface]

My plan is for the hero to channel for 3 seconds, and when the channel finishes the spell fires, dealing attack damage plus some bonus damage.
I have the channel down, the spell fires off alright, but I get the "miss" and no damage and nothing.

 

[Kino]

If I were you there are 2 ways you can get this done.
Firstly Id base the ability of channel, Im quite sure adding a cast time to a skill that's not normally channeling doesn't actually count mechanically as a channel even though it may look like it.

Now you decide what to do next.

A) You could save the values of the caster's base damage, primary stats, any buff or item bonuses as variables. When the spell actually impacts you then calculate the damage based on the above four factors.

B) You could create a dummy version of your caster. Upon finishing the channel you spawn the dummy, set it's stats to that identical of the caster. Take note also to add any buffs and items. Then you just order it to attack the target once and despawn the dummy.

 

[lemonkeyface]

I have two seperate spells, one based off Channel, and then the one that fires when the Channel finishes.

To me it seems like A) would be the most optimal choice, since the dummy would require me to do essentially the same thing as in the first example, and then add those to the dummy instead.
I was thinking I'd have to do something along those lines anyhow, I was just wondering if there wasn't a smarter way of doing it.

It's an awful shame that getting the attack damage value is such a pain in WC3, a lot of cool stuff could be done with it.

Thanks for the assistance, by the way!

 

[Kino]

Well the key difference is that the second option is an actual attack.
It will take into account evasion/hardened skin and so on. Thus having the possibility to miss/block.

 

[Adiktuz]

AFAIK, searing arrows only work for ranged attacks

 

[pOke]

You could try giving the melee hero a projectile, like 10,000 speed or something, and then seeing in searing arrows works, I feel like the problem is related to the "instant" damage that melee units have.

Similarly to what Kino is saying, in my opinion you use channel, but instead of saving all the units stats and what not, you use http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/general-mapping-tutorials-278/hero-passive-transformation-198482/

So the unit-type 2 looks and has the same damage as your regular hero, but you give it an Aura making it have Max Attack speed and a Attack Cooldown of like .2,

Then after channeling for 3 seconds you "blink" your hero to the target have it attack once and then "blink" it back to its original position, you could make another dummy unit that looks like your hero but almost transparent so it looks like they moving really fast.

 

[lemonkeyface]

@pOke
I tried giving the Hero a missile attack with 200 range, and the "miss" disappeared, although there's still no projectile, and no damage is dealt.

 

[Adiktuz]

Well, if you have 200 range, better yet make the attack as a missile type instead of instant... I don't think SA will work with any non-missile attacks...

 

[pOke]

This question was really troubling for me, so I decided to not sleep and test for like 30 minutes.

Test map attached: (ESC to check distance b/t paladin and archmage/ -move X to move the archmage closer or further to the paladin [exp: -move 400])

Paladin, an inherently melee hero, even when given all the stats of the Archmage, refused to do a searing arrow. I think I can assume it will be the same for all other melee heroes.

The Archmage, when given melee range with no projectile, was able to do searing arrows. He was able to do it up to a range of 414 with an attack range of 100. The range always ending with 14 is a recurring trend you will see. (Here as in all other examples, acquisition range == attack range)

From my tests, 1100 range equates to 1414 possible range, 2000 to 2314. By now you're probably seeing the pattern. It seems to be adding 314 to your available range. I doubt it has any relation to PI, but who knows!

This was only done with searing arrows, I could attempt to explore more arrows at a later time, its 5 am.


EDIT: AFTER READING Adiktuz post I went to test instant versus missle versus normal.
Instant works the same as above except the projectile doesn't fly there, it just appears... instantly (go figure)
Normal just doesn't work.
Missile is what is initially described above.
Above when I said I gave a paladin all the stats of an archmage I forgot to change attack type from normal to missle, that does that trick.

 

[Adiktuz]

I meant normal when I said instant, not Missile (Instant)... coz I forgot that there exist missile (instant)... so that means that it simply just really doesn't work for non-missile attacks...

 

[Vinz]

314.. Yes. Pi. As they say, the triangle is a very powerful shape. Though I hardly see a connection.

 

[Ezekiel12]

@pOke:

The max range for starting a normal attack is determined by

collision size of attacker+
collision size of target+
min(attacker attack range, attacker acquisition range)
(which we call [1])

Now, for a projectile to be released -or incase of melee a hit to be done- a bit later in the attack process, the target must be inside the range of [1] + range motion buffer of the used attack index, which we call [2].


Searing arrows single casted forces an attack and doesnt care about [1]. You can start shooting projectiles (or attack with a melee unit at greater range) as long you dont exceed [2].

So the 314 range added you are talking about is:

archmages range motion buffer of the used attack (250)+
collision size archmage (32)+
collision size paladin (32)
=314

So for the original question of this thread, just give the melee unit a big range motion buffer (and the searing arrows ability an adequate cast range) and it will work.

 

[lemonkeyface]

Wonderful, thank you for that clarification of the Searing Arrow Mechanics
I just have a single question left, where is Searing Arrows in the Unit Order dropdown menu.

As you can see, both Frost arrows and Dark Arrow is listed.

 

[pOke]

I didn't see searing arrows, I'm sure you could IssueOrderById, however you can just use Posion Arrows, it has pretty much the same fields in the OE as Searing arrows (the bonus dmg), and it has a GUI action.

 

[Adiktuz]

try to go to searing arrows and look for the orderstring... you can also use that when issuing orders