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[Strategy / Risk] Reviving my oldest existing mod for Reforge.

Discussion in 'Map Development' started by Em!, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. Em!

    Em!

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    After the release of Reforged "being one of the minority really happy about it", I took a look at my oldest existing mods. One of which I worked on shortly after the release of tft, back when I was a noob with no modeling or triggering skills and was just messing around. I was always fond of this mod and I felt like I wanted to revive it using only Reforge stuff, with a few WoW icons imported.

    So the old version had pre-placed races in their own territory with their own advantages and disadvantages, sort of like risk or a total war/hammer game. Then you built your base and you ventured forth to claim tinted resurrection rocks to accumulate resource, capture the flag style with the rarest and most precious resource in the center of the map heavily guarded and only one of its kind. The creeps around the map were pretty strong with abilities like chance to insta kill or summon hordes of undead, then my noobish triggers prevented me from limiting creep spawners so given time, a mob of creeps would form somewhere in the map.
    I played this with a couple of friends back in the day only two of which are currently active as far as I know and I am looking forward to challenging them again but this time in reforge.

    • All races had a "Captain and/Or Commander" they could not gain levels or experience and they were usually limited to one but they were powerful and were the only ones able to capture a resource point. Heroes could not do it.
    • Most races had a type of Mage Tower with some global reach or defensive ability. The structure needed to be built though.
    • Races had only 1 type of hero and a facility for purchasing racial items, though there were mercenary camps and item shops. The way it worked, it never felt like wc3. I obsessively needed to make everything custom. Still do.
    • The terrain is/was ugly as shit. I was not a good terrain er and back then I did not care.
    • The game was horrible imbalanced and that is what made it really fun.

    Chaos Lords.
    A huge unorganized bunch of Fel Orcs and Demons. They start with an invulnerable portal along side their main hall. This portal would later on be able to link itself to an alternate smaller portal working as a way gate but until that was researched, it functioned as a barracks.
    -Chaos had a lot of global presence, with mass summoning spells and able to sacrifice their own units to briefly bring out more powerful demons.
    They could not built structures outside their territory as each building "except the alternate portal", was just summoned straight from the town hall.
    Their abilities had a lot of friendly fire so you had good dps units and you could swarm but it was somehow surprisingly balanced, or at least I don´t remember any complaints about them being op.

    The Fey Folk.
    I remember that race was the last that I worked on and I never really completed it. It was playable enough but the race felt really weak back then.
    They had a lot of ranged and magical fire power and really lacked in durability.
    -The Fey had one spell in their mage tower and it created a temporary global true shot aura.
    I did play them in multiplayer, I remember that but never did I realize the overpowered ability they had with 1 spell which was mass entanglement.
    I managed to destroy every overpowered creep camp I encountered while recently re-testing by mass entangling and just doing a ranged bombardment, completing destroying everything. To make things worse they had a unit with auto-cast ensnare. I really remembered this race to be really weak before. Strange.

    The Undine
    I like how Wazzz told me recently that he remembered how this race consisting of naga, murlocs, crabs and turtles were overpowered as heck. Stronger than any race.
    Reason was that they had one entry point into their territory. A narrow shallow waterway easily defend able and undine was a tanky race.
    They had weak murloc troops but the weakest one was able to summon vomit puddles which created small radius slow aura but able to mass create the stuff and then able to morph into a murloc hut/tower.
    This was mid-tier research I think.
    They also had Captain which was limited to 2 instead of the usual 1 and 1 Commander. The captain had mass healing :D.
    They weren´t op Wazzz, you just needed to git good.

    The Death Lords
    I have fond memories how fun it was to create this undead race. The tier 1 zombie was the focal point.
    While most every zombie type unit had reincarnation, I remember initially I created a zombie trigger spell that had a 50% of reviving the zombie like reincarnation but no cooldown :D. More and more zombies kept popping up with the captain having a black arrow like permanent zombie raise ability.
    Then with later research you could morph a zombie into a burning corpse, were they would degenerate health but gain permanent immolation and the tornado wander ability. The zombies would run around on fire, it was hilarious.
    They had zombie hounds and Flesh Golem.
    Pretty zombie oriented and they had a global summoning spells as well. Not permanent troops like chaos but they could summons swarms of skeletons and vultures/carrion birds.
    They had a late game Commander which was able to morph into a flying bat and capture resource stones like no tomorrow.
    I think they were stronger than Undine cause no matter how hard you turtle you still need that precious trickle of periodic income but that was late game stuff.

    Vanguards
    The first race I started on, or was that undead? The humans were interesting cause they didn't follow the norm on knights and priests. They had aerial bombardment spells, where gyrocopters would be triggered to fly from the vanguard territory drop their payload and return. The player had no control over the gyrocopters only the bombardment area. They also had gyrocopters which dropped units and the spell was called paratroops.
    The race was a mix of dwarfs and humans with a lot of mechanicals like golems and the siege engine.
    They also had access to monks and ninjas.
    The ninja being able to stealth and plant explosive barrels.
    Don´t remember them to have been noticeable imbalanced but that might just have been because of the Undine, Death Lords and Chaos being too strong.
    Their hero had this bugged spell which could summon bodyguards which would periodically drain your gold but it had no way of knowing when you had no gold, so nothing happen and you could summon them when dirt poor.
    Elite trigger skills.

    Beastmen
    Bunch of kobolds, razorpigs and centaurs. They had no global spells, only cheap totem items which their captain would be able to purchase and plant around the map. Totems easily bought in any of the creep marketplaces. I still haven't tested them out and I don´t recall them being anything special. Boring as heck, probably will fix that in reforge version.
    My aim was something similar to heroes of might and magic 1-2-3 barbarians except no access to any magic at all.
    Totems galore.
    This was before ubisoft took a big pile of waste on the franchise.


    • [*]No races will need to build any of their structures as their territory will be fully decorated fortress like area.
      [*]No spell tower structures, instead it will be an immobile hero like structure for easy access to the available spells.
      [*]No hidden passive stats. Like in old godfall every unit had 5-6 abilities in a spell-book passives with things like reincarnation, critical strikes, cleaving attacks etc. I may bring it back because I do like the randomness of it all, watching a dying unit suddenly pull a critical strike and a cleaving attack plus evasion or something which would be hilarious to see again.
      [*]The race territory will have some defense in place, chaos currently have some defensive spells that only have range in their territory. For others they may have Towers but undecided if the towers will be initially online or need to be researched to function like in heroes of might and magic.
      [*]Resources are still capture the flag but now any and all units can capture a region by attacking it. System taking from the Godfall project. Alternate resource currently not capture-able, it is attained through slaying boss and researching tiers but currently looking into it being very limited. Its called "Tactical" resources and its mostly consumed on high tier units and every single upgrade except tier upgrades.
      [*]Flags are now in areas called regions. "Most" Regions are dungeon-crawler like with monsters and bosses. A region cannot be captures until the Boss has been killed. There is also a racial region which does not feature any hostile creeps, its next to your territory and resembles as part of it which still needs to be captured.
      [*]No limited troops, captains or commanders. There are unique variants of existing troops which functions like a diablo unique/elite monsters but they are balanced in that way they might not be better than its lesser for their price cost. Elites cost tactical but bring new abilities and auras to the table.
      [*]New armor, damage types and creature category.
      [*]Armor being only Defense, "Alternate" Defense "melee disadvantage for ranged troops", Armored "reduces all but energy damage" and Bulwark "greatly reduces all but Force damage".
      [*]Damage types are melee, ranged "slightly weaker than melee against armored", energy "magic" and force damage "force is chaos".
      [*]Spirits such as Ghosts, fairy and some elemental demons take damage from dispel effects. Monsters, Large and Giant are resistance to different types of stuff while vulnerable to others. Most monsters have short ranged detection and giants have resistance skin while large does not but Giant and Large both suffer from the same type of slayer ability while monsters suffer from a different type of slayer ability. Then there is of course mechanical and undead etc.
    So I started working on Chaos.
    War3ChaosFortress.jpg
    Their territory is defend able with two access points. Currently don´t plan on them having any functioning Towers, relying on the spell tower hero for reinforcements and meteor summons.
    War3Hell.jpg
    They also have this little zone called "Hell". Its not accessible by normal means and its not fully thought out but I plan on giving someone or something the ability to send one or more to hell for a short time to fight the Judge of Hell. I wanted someone to literally be able to send their enemies to hell.
    War3SpiderAmbush.jpg
    Regions have creep spawns. Its reliable sort of experience grinding but the spawns are low level, and once the region boss is killed they stop spawning. Only the region boss and elite minions grant any resource bounty when they die and those don´t respawn.
    Each regions is unique, offer unique stuff and has a unique theme. This region is a marshland and the boss might drop a unique upgrade which will allow your race to train it´s elite monsters.
    In that particular s.s I was not careful. Had an elite monster which is a strong but vulnerable artillery version of its lesser kin but I was not paying attention to that ambush. Stupid spiders and their auto-cast webs, stupid chaos with no tier 1 healing ability. I did balance the webs that the spiders are spawned with 0 mana and the webs cost mana, I thought I had killed off all the initial creeps and the eggs were still training fresh troops. I was wrong :(. Precious resource wasted on a glass cannon troop.
    War3Boss&Portal.jpg
    This is a screenshot of a boss battle. This boss is close to the borders of humans, chaos and undine. This boss has two phases, once his health reaches a certain point he boringly summons more minions making the fight a lot more difficult but you cant retreat cause someone else may kill-steal or the boss might regenerate up to full health.
    In this screenshot im using the chaos warlock to open a portal so I can reinforce myself. The global reinforcement spell has a loooong cooldown at tier 1 and i´m taking a lot of damage in that fight.
    The way the portal works now is that there are no triggers. The Warlock is channeling a structure using a modified tornado spell. While the warlock is channeling, I can literally train units from there. No way gate this time though. Nice to have a summon able training facility.
    The boss battle would have been easier with my artillery elite that died to a tier 1 pathetic spider.
    War3RegionClaim.jpg
    After killing the giant f´ing tree. The flag is vulnerable to attack, once destroyed it will respawn and generate gold for meeeee.
    War3TheDragonMine.jpg
    I have three choices now. The mine which is guarded by a dragon boss which is a lot tougher has more boss phases and its last one is too scary. I knew I did not have the ability at that time, even though I was being all lonely and playing with myself. While the dragon is alive the region cannot be captured.
    War3PirateTownSortOf.jpg
    second choice is easier. Its a pirate town, with some mercenaries, tieflings and crime bosses hiding in the shadows both day and night. The pirate town will have some excellent shops and access to the shipyard. I plan to add a gauntlet to it as a boss battle in order to capture it.
    The shipyard, the waterways and the undine are still a work in process. I´m thinking either the shipyard will be a way-gate and brings units instantly from places to place eventually reaching the undine territory or have naval features. Don´t know how that will work for all races as the waterways which is a region which is full of deep salty water does not reach all to the fae or chaos player.
    War3GuildCity.jpg
    third choice is to invade into the territory of the guilds, though the city in the screenshot is not my intention. The farmlands outside which is the racial region of the humans would be a no brainer choice between dragons, crime bosses or an area with no controller player :p.

    Chaos is currently only one really playable.
    I am nearly done with an early version of playable Guilds. Their non mechanical units are ready and they are melee oriented but they play more like rougish style. Nets, bombs, stealth, summonable dogs and spells which are jokingly trademark by fictional wizards in a very political/lawyer´ish style. The idea behind the first spellcaster unit you can train is that they are poor students paying off loans with spells they need to have license for in order to cast which means more debts. This unit is called the Indentured Mage and their abilities are named like Magni´s Magnificent Shield or Horatio´s Horrible Crate which throws a crate and summons a scorpion, tribute to warcraft 1 human scorpion spell.

    I´ve been having a lot of fun with this but I got contracted for work starting next week. I will be away from home again, the job is only for a week but its the weekends too. Tomorrow i´m going to start my own prep paper work but I would like to use this thread to discuss ideas and the project freely. Though I am very creative, i´m stuck on certain aspect and unsure on others and don´t mind peoples creative contributes.
    I might be able to lure some interested test players for future invites :).

    Anyway will bring more info as it is asked or when I feel like it, like tech trees, abilities and game-play stuff.
     
  2. Mechanical Man

    Mechanical Man

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    So no custom art assets in this case?
     
  3. Em!

    Em!

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    Classic stuff looks awkward with the new reforged stuff. Although played a few games in the old classic version of this mod with reforge graphics with wazzz yesterday and i did not feel the awkwardness with the imported sd models next to the hd stuff, partly cause the mod is hilarious balance wise and fun to play so I may have a change of heart about that. Sadly lost both games cause he picked undine both times.
     
  4. Oliver

    Oliver

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    Looks like good fun, lots of cool ideas.

    A few years back I played with a similar hell idea, you could tie in other aspects to the hell, say if someone dies in there they become some sort of demon which can be summoned by a warlock for a short time. Perhaps the warlock doesn't know which one they summon and there is a chance they won't be able to control the resulting summoned creature.
     
  5. Em!

    Em!

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    Hmm I could give the Judge of Hell raise dead or animate dead even and trigger it as auto-cast. Interesting idea to send units to hell and if they dont survive by the time they return back from it something else returns in their place, oh that could be fun.
     
  6. TheZodiarch

    TheZodiarch

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    I know this is a bit of a side track concerning this discussion, but about custom skins and models imported to Reforge, i tried it a bit and tested with a few things and discovered (at least in my case) that the mouth animation, that moves in response to the sound file of the unit, don't work anymore on imported models. I believe blizzard made their new reforged models with a more real life mouth reader of the model to their soundset, which the old models and custom ones dont have. Wondered if any of you have the same issue? I wanted to make my own custom campaign with imported models in reforged, so :( . P.S does any of you know if wc3 viewer 2 will work or could extract reforge skins? - (Thx for any responses to my silliness XD)
     
  7. Em!

    Em!

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    No existing game engine can recreate animations outside of the models inherent capabilities. Nothing you can currently import or may ever will can copy the way that the reforge models can move their mouth, it´s got something to do with mo-cap. Older models were manually animated to move a certain simple way like a puppet so you will never be able to download custom model and expect the reforge engine can manipulate it to any other way than the models is inherently capable of.