Pudge Wars v2.03d


Project Status
I am no longer working on Pudge Wars anymore (since v2.03c). Any future updates will be done solely for the purpose of bug fixes. Therefore I have released an unoptimized version of Pudge Wars for people to learn, for people to edit, and for anyone wishing to continue development for this fun map. You may download the unoptimized version here.
Current version: v2.03d
Date released: 8 July 2012
Forum link: http://pudgewars.forumotion.com/

A list of older versions of Pudge Wars (including some of Tossrocks) can be viewed here.

Project Details
  • This map was based off the original Pudge Wars.
    Tossrock said:
    No, I created Pudge Wars Advanced because I was playing the original (Pudge Wars, which was teams of 3 with the basic hook spell and a "lay mine" spell.) and thought to myself "This is a fun game but could be way better." And so I did. I know about pretty much all the current bugs but I'm pretty busy with college and stuff, and also terribly lazy. Maybe I'll put a new version out in time for Winter break.
    Source: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/589475-warcraft-iii-the-frozen-throne/46354776
  • Pudge Wars Advanced was created by Tossrock, and taken over by Siraraz in 2010. Decline in development (before new developer came) was due to the following reasons:
    • Software used to develop map ceased to function properly;
    • Lack of enough free time. Other priorities and commitments;
    • Starcraft II's release was near; development would be futile and a waste of effort and time.
  • Development is primarily done by Siraraz. Credits however are due to other users as their resources have been used.
Map Details
Pudge Wars Advanced (or Pudge Wars for short) is a mini-game map where two teams of up to six players aim to achieve victory by scoring a certain amount of enemy kills or winning a certain amount of rounds first. The arena is set in a 32x32 map (even less actually), divided by a river running vertically in the middle of the map: creating two sides, West and East.


The map is based on the Butcher character from DotA, and his ability: Meat Hook. The map has heavily expanded on the simple Meat Hook ability and is the core of the map. The ability Meat Hook is a simple concept: Pudge throws his bloody Meat Hook towards the targeted location. Any units hit by the hook will be damaged and reeled back to Pudge. Once reeled back, you can kill the target by attacking him or hooking him again. However, one should expect the enemy to have the same goal in mind; creating a chaotic festival of bloody butchery as the surrounding quickly becomes filled with meat hooks.

  • Fully triggered abilities
  • Artificial intelligence
  • Ingame switch system, the same as DotA's
  • 10 different items, many of which are based off DotA heroes
  • Upgradable items - even with a full inventory
  • Death notification messages that inform of the killing style
  • A random hat party
  • ... and more!
Yet to come. Go check out the map instead :)

‘Anitarf’ for ‘SpellEvent’
‘BBQ’ for ‘PeriodicLoop’
‘Jesus4Lyf’ for ‘Hash, ‘DummyCaster’, Damage’
‘kingkingyyk3’ for coding assistance
‘kenny’ for extracts of code I used from his ‘Pudge Wars Meat Hook Revisited’ resource
‘grim001’ for ‘GetProc’
‘Magtheridon96’ for ‘RegisterPlayerUnitEvent’
‘nestharus’ for ‘Event’
‘Rising_Dusk’ for ‘GroupUtils’
‘Strilance’ for ‘HostBot Command Library’
‘Tirlititi’ for ‘ClearItems’
‘Vexorian’ for ‘Table’, ‘SimError’, ‘TimerUtils’, ‘FauxHandleVars’

‘xXMephistoXx’ for the ‘Magic Hat’ model (used for hat party command)
‘kunkka’ for the loading screen

‘BAkil’, ‘TrevorTheHoly’, ‘Orgetorox’, ‘Fire525108’, ‘aznshocktrooper’

‘kingkingyyk3’for developing the AI
‘Mr_Bean’ for continued support and managing the forums
‘Tossrock’ for developing this amazing map

Version D (08/07/2012):
*Strength gained per level for Pudge reverted back to 5.0 (+125 HP/level)

Bug Fixes
*Fixed the level 5 Rupture percent to be actually 30% instead of 40% (oops)
*Fixed level 5 Rupture from not being applied when the target Blinks away
*Fixed a bug in which Split would always end up as a deny

Version C (02/07/2012):
*Added a new powerup: Spectre’s Dagger
Allows you to Meat Hook through allies, land mines and barricades for 30 seconds
*Added a new powerup: Berserker’s Blood
Same concept as the passive on Sacred Warrior (Huskar) from DotA. For every 5% health missing, Pudge gains 5% damage and speed. The first bonus starts at full health. This buff lasts for 30 seconds.

*HP per strength point reduced from 50 to 25
*Strength per level reduced from 5.0 to 2.5
*Increase Strength cannot be bought if you have more than 125 already

Split (Azwraith’s Lance):
*Pudge now has the same life when exiting Split formation
*Split visual slightly modified; the real Pudge is transparent and tinted black

Techies’ Explosive Barrel:
*Improved mine damage from (300, 350, 400, 450, 500) to (400, 462.5, 525, 587.5, 650)
*Improved thrown mines’ damage from (500, 575, 650, 725, 800) to (625, 737.5, 850, 912.5, 1025)

Blink (Grapple Hook):
*Blink cast range reduced from 900 to 650
*Blink now escapes hooks

*Initial position now randomized
*Improved fountain regeneration rate from 7.5hp per second to 1% (of max HP) per second
*Ward cast range reduced from 500 to 200
*Ward charges from 3 to 2


*Floating text is no longer shown if you can’t see the unit
*Changed flame model so it is easier to attack manually
*Changed hotkeys of Upgrades shop
*Command –unstuck now moves camera instantly


*Added new game mode: timed mode (-tmxxx)
Timed mode will set the game to last xxx minutes. The team that has the most kills at the end of this time will be the winners. Example usage: -tm030nt. This will make a 30 minute game with revive time of 5 seconds. In this way, a draw can occur.
*Added a team-switch mechanism (like DotA’s)
Usage: -switch x, this will initiate a switch request with a player on the other team. The value of x can be from 1 to 5 (even unused player slots). All players except one must then accept this request by typing –ok.
*HostBot command now registered in a different style. Instead of “k1n” for –km100nt, the style is now: k1 for –km10, n25 for –km250nt, etc. The first string is ‘k’ or ‘n’. HCL supports only kills mode for now. The number after it will be the kills required x10.
*Added command –camh to adjust camera distance
*Added more hints
*Changelog removed from quest menu due to space limitation

Bug Fixes

*Fixed a bug in which a powerup could be repeated twice
*Fixed a bug with Rupture in which it would not end when you Doppelwalked a Level 5 Strygwyr Claws Meat Hook

Version B (03/06/2012):

*Fixed lag caused when items would be dropped.
*Leaver items and gold now given to team again.

Version A (30/05/2012):


*Reduced base movespeed from 350 to 325

Meat Hook
*Reduced damage upgrade amount from 35 to 20
*Reduced radius upgrade amount from 15 to 10
*Reduced speed upgrade amount from 75 to 50


*Added a new consumable item: Dust of Apperance (25g)
Effect: Reveals invisible units within 500 radius area of effect. Lasts 5 seconds. Contains 2 charges.
*Changed the item models of most items to a miniture version of the hero they represent

Strygwyr’s Claws:
*Reduced base drag % by 5% (10%, 15%, 20%, 25%, 30%)
*Level 5 bonus Rupture reduced from 40% to 30%
*Level 5 bonus Rupture duration reduced from 5 seconds to 3 seconds
*Level 5 bonus Rupture no longer deals damage on Blink (distance must be more than 250 range)

Azwraith’s Lance:
*Illusions cannot spawn if hook causes death

Tiny’s Arm:
*Reduced cast range increment from 500 to 300 (1000/1300/1600/1900/2200 range)
*Cast range changed to infinite, but actual effect distance will remain the actual maximum range

Techies’ Explosive Barrel:
*Reduced mine damage from (500, 575, 650, 725, 800) to (300, 350, 400, 450, 500)
*Reduced thrown mines' damage from (750, 900, 1050, 1100, 1250) to (500, 575, 650, 725, 800)
*Reduced area of effect (applies to both ground and thrown): Full damage:
Reduced by 50. From (200, 225, 250, 275, 300) to (150, 175, 200, 225, 250)
Half damage: Reduced by 100. From (400, 425, 450, 475, 500) to (300, 325, 350, 375, 400)

Barathrum’s Lantern:
*Power Bash no longer affects allies

Lycan’s Paws (Please send feedback in regards to this item):
*Movespeed bonus reduced from 50/75/100/125/150 to 40/55/70/85/100
*Movespeed increase % removed from Level 5. Attack % increase from 27% to 40%

*Reveal now costs a fixed 10g
*Reveal now has a 15s cooldown


*Powerups now spawn as ally instead of enemy
*Changed powerup spawn algorithm: the powerup chosen is still random but cannot be repeated until all other powerups have been spawned

*Flame unit vision reduced from 500 to 200 (same as v1.24)

*Thunder nova now created when activated
*Added new lightning visual effect for meat hook. If flame is active with thunder, the hook will be a red lightning (currently not possible unless under testing conditions)


*Suiciding not caused by Techies' Ultimate or Dynamite rune now causes your team to lose one point
*Max level heroes no longer drain xp
*Invulnerability when reviving lasts only 2.5 seconds. Hook-safety still remains 5 seconds.
*Hints are now displayed every 45 seconds for newer players. Use -togglehints/-toghints to turn on/off. Use -showhint to display a random hint.
*Revive time for non-nt mode changed from 3(level) + 5 to (level) + 5
*Observers/Referees can now see damage tags and other messages
*Leaver gold and items are no longer distributed (maybe this will fix the lag?)
*Added HCL support for bots. Currently only supports the following modes:
'k1n' = -km100nt
'k1' = -km100
Feedback on this area is appreciated.


*Leaver heroes are now removed
*Dynamite now explodes when the previous holder was an illusion who has dissapeared
*Fixed a bug in where giving an item which became an upgraded item would still allow you to cast the ability

Known bugs:
*When a player leaves lag is created


Alpha 2 (29/01/2012):

*AI has few bugs with item purchasing
*Barricades may not properly rotate if multiple are ordered to by another player under shared control
*Various bugs with ‘whosyourdaddy’ cheat in offline play
*Few errors with messages in testing mode
*Leavers hero is not removed from game

*Toss projectile pickup priority changed:
1. Allied mines
2. Enemy heroes
3. Allied wards
4. Allied heroes
5. Enemy mines
6. Enemy wards
*Pudge is now invulnerable for 5 seconds after reviving
*Increased the Hyperspeed slow percentage from 50% to 75%
*Increased Grapple Hook’s Blink range from 400 to 900 (now allows blinking to other side)
*Few changes on Earthshaker’s Totem:
*Removed the armor from barricades(armor wasn’t used in Pudge Wars anyways)
*Added 40% resistance to all damage types to barricades
*Added a 90-second duration to barricades
Max level ability (Fissure):
*Fissure barricades are now created in an exact straight line (compared to previously jagged)
*Fissure-made barricades are now invulnerable (damage text still shows though)
*Added another grapple lightpost to each side
*Changed the position of existing lightposts to let the new one fit in better
*Land Mines can now damage wards and fissures
*Land Mines can now damage other land mines within a 75 range radius.
*Increased the radius of Blade Barrier from 175 to 200 (same as pre-v2)
*Increased the flame damage interval from 0.25 sto 0.50s (same damage dealt, just less frequent)
the stun duration on Level 5 Toss from proportional to the distance to
an approximately fixed 0.75s (this 0.75s is counted from when the tossed
unit stops motion)

*Removed the yellow flashy cooldown model
*Reduced the number of blade units in blade barrier by half
*Headshot kill message now shows who owns the first hook
*Fixed Lycan’s Paws purchase tooltip
*Removed the [Level 1] suffix from the Reveal tooltip
*Changed Split ‘s death animation
*Changed the Hyperspeed trail duration from 1.0928 to 1.08 (barely noticeable)
*Removed the smooth transition of terrain fog when hyperspeed is active
*Pudge explosions (when Pudge explodes into many parts) now face the same direction before exploding
*Added a death animation for Land Mines
*Added a death animation for Barricades
*Added a spawn animation for Barricades made with Fissure
*Added death information on the killing spree quest information log
*Improved Upgrade Point tooltip in the screen interface
*Changed the hero attribute tooltips

*Added a 5-second delay before the match starts after the mode is selected
*Added a sound for when the game starts
*Added map description
*Modified item purchase hotkeys. Item hotkey corresponds to their position in the command card.
*More script optimizing
*Blade Barrier can now be removed using the -r/-reset command.
*Game no longer ends in 60 seconds after a team wins

*Removed the –observer command from the Commands quest log
*Fixed the command -stat from not working
reveal gold cost now reduces exactly 7 minutes after the game mode is
selected rather than 7 minutes after the game is loaded
*Fixed barricades from not rotating when multiple are selected (see known bugs)
*Removed the fountain powerup from the powerup spawn pool
*Fixed Toss from picking dead land mines as a projectile
*Fixed testing commands from being active every game
*Fixed Dynamite/Techies’ Detonate from only damaging one unit.
*Fixed a bug in which an observer/referee player leaving would cause the scoreboard to display “left” everywhere on it.
*Fixed a bug with -resethook command detection of current hooks
*Fixed a bug with hyperspeed leaving vision behind after it had ended

redesigned by kingkingyyk3. The AI now has a randomized hook upgrade
pattern as well as a randomized item purchasing pattern. The AI is now
able to use active abilities and has improved reactions to specific

Alpha 1 (29/01/2012):

*New powerup: Some Fountain Manipulator powerup [NOT COMPLETED].
*Reworked Split.

Stat Changes
  • Duration: 30 -> 35
  • AoE: 800 -> 900
  • Cost: 5 -> 50 (decreases by 5 gold every 7 mins until price is 5 gold)
*Illusion damage taken increased from 100% -> 200%
*Changed max. players from 12 -> 10 (allows observers in lobby, removed in-game observer commands)
*Change priority of projectile pickup for Toss, as follows:
  1. Allied Land Mines
  2. Allied Wards
  3. Enemy Heroes
  4. Allied Heroes
  5. Enemy Land Mines
  6. Enemy Wards
*Limited amount of Doppelwalk illusions to one. When Doppelwalk fires; any existing illusion will be destroyed.
*Grapple Hook radius capped to 250.

*Buying items with full inventory
*Item repickup limit removed.
*Added command: -clear. This command clears the screen of any text messages.
*Changed “dy” to “-dd”
*Changed “ff” to “-ff”
*Added “-r” for “-reset” command

*Renamed Phantom’s Lance to Azwraith’s Lance
*Changed Phantom’s Lance (Azwraith’s Lance) tooltip
*Removed the “Advanced” from the map name
the player board (-sb board) to show method of killing for each
individual method rather then a category. Instead of “powerup, attack,
headshot, hook, item”, it is now “blades, fire, lightning, dynamite,
etc.”. Methods of killing you haven’t used are coloured, grey, whilst
those you have are coloured green.
*Added disclaimer for Grappling
Hook stating that it is not an offensive ability. It can only grapple
structures, not hook units.
*Barricade and Grappling Hook command
card position fixed so they don’t move around. Grapple Hook occupies (1,
2) and Lay Barricade occupies (2, 2).
*The Choose Upgrades window
will automatically close after a player upgrades a stat if their skill
points (or lumber) is below the minimum value required for an upgrade. For example:
you have 5 Skill Points, all upgrades cost 3 Skill Points. You decide
to upgrade a random stat, you are left with 2 Skill Points. Seeing as
you are unable to upgrade anymore, the window will automatically close.
*Quest log detailing the amount of kills for each spree. Killing Spree - 3, and so forth.
*Dynamite: the floating text now follows the holding unit’s height.
*Dynamite: the floating text no longer jumps from 20 height to 150 when activated
*Toss: added a targeting image to show the collision-contact radius.
*Toss: land mines now face the proper direction when they are thrown with Toss.
*Pudge shadow centre changed from 60,60 to 75,75
*Rescaled the Grapple Hook model to a more accurate size.

*Changed the rate at which AI purchased items: 0.03125 -> 1.00
*Changed the rate at which AI predicted unit movement: 0.03125 -> 0.25
*Rescaled AI reaction time. Easy: 0.6s. Normal: 0.45s. Insane: 0.3s

*Fixed hyperspeed from not providing speed boost to revived players who died with hyperspeed
*Fixed the speed of objects in hyperspeed when Tossed
*Fixed illusions from being able to damage anything.
*Fixed a bug where Toss wouldn’t work.
*Fixed a bug in which powerups would not follow the proper trajectory when Tossed.
*Users may no longer purchase Tome of Power at Level 25. Gold is refunded if player attempts to purchase.
Pudge Wars Advanced, Pudge Wars, Tossrock, Siraraz, Meat Hook, Pudge, Hook

Pudge Wars v2.03d (Map)

23:49, 15th Sep 2010 Cweener: Approved Post.
Level 16
Jan 31, 2009
I am Siraraz. I would have my username changed - but I can't.

A Google search of my name supports that, also the signature linking to my thread on TheHelper from my PlayDotA user's signature is also proof enough.

I think I may add BlackRose on the map it self so people don't misunderstand X_X

That explains all of that. Hope to see you succeed to make the map better.
Level 13
Jun 10, 2007
There is no screenshots and videos are too short

Regardless it's the almighty Pudge Wars. If you haven't played it before, you're in need of playing classic games.

Hope that lightning desync bug was fixed :ogre_haosis:. Raging at other people ingame not to pick up that powerup made the game horrendous to endure. Will be uploading this to my bot.
Level 13
Mar 13, 2010
Pudge Wars, Mirana Wars, Nevermore Wars, Axe Wars, Bounty Hunter Wars, And Pudge Wars Advanced. Nice.
Level 15
Jul 6, 2009
So thats why i never saw a new version of pudge wars
I wish you good luck and make the map even better

Ahaha. Yep. Pretty much - Tossrock's JassHelper stopped working or something (it seems that was his thread he asked in)? And thanks :)

You made this? Awesome. Can I increase the terrain for you? xD

Well, I kind of confuse myself over that word, I don't consider myself the maker of this map, just the current developer. But I guess people see it as the same - and increase the terrain? The map size is fine :3

There is no screenshots and videos are too short

I had kind of thought that the map was popular enough to give results. I'll perhaps add screenshots later.

Hope that lightning desync bug was fixed . Raging at other people ingame not to pick up that powerup made the game horrendous to endure. Will be uploading this to my bot.

Ahh? Someone has told me about some lightning desync, but I have never experienced it. Was this in v1.24? I play that often (because my community isn't 100% aware of a new version) and don't seem to experience desyncs with Thunder, only lightnings from the bot left corner to wherever it was last. :)

Guess I'm bad too then, huh?

Huh? :)?

Pudge Wars, Mirana Wars, Nevermore Wars, Axe Wars, Bounty Hunter Wars, And Pudge Wars Advanced.

Are you going to play this map? Or simply "sigh" at the amount of DotA hero derived maps?

:| Well, I didn't know if you were kind of annoyed at the amount of DotA hero maps or not. But misunderstanding here :)
Last edited:
@Cweener this map has best hook systems ever created ^^

So many cool stuff, like instantly killing enemy hero with hook if he is already hooked by another player... Items are really cool, each one add different effect or ability to hero, making him more unique!

Main weapon, hook, can be upgrade with points (lumber, just kill some enemies for some)! Damage, Range, Speed and AoE!

Even power ups are cool ^^
Level 6
Oct 10, 2009
I will give my full review now, or you can see my final rating at the bottom.

Please note, parts of the description section, and almost all of the terrain section of this review I borrowed from ap0calypse, because he is awesomeness.

"The reason why a good description is necessary is to encourage players to play your game.
It will grip the attention of people who (accidentally) pass by, attention is one of the basic things a map must have, otherwise it will be forgotten in the thousands and thousands of maps on battle.net."
( - The Importance of a Description, by ap0calypse).

If you'd like some examples of a good description try the following links.
Shining Waters by R.Gaming_Strike
Avatar by dj0z

Additionally, a description is required (not just optional).
Only a few people will download your map with no description and it is certain to get rejected.

Description was more than adequate.

General Triggering Tips

1) Leaks and how they affect you

Now, if you don't know, the definition of a leak, an object handle that is used and stored in memory but cannot be recalled.
In layman's terms, it's basically like having something on your computer taking on space, but you can't get rid of it, so it bogs down your memory uncontrollably.
Try the hidden tag below for more info on leaks.

Couldn't find a single leak, after looking through EVERY trigger.

2) Inefficiencies: The plague of triggers

Now, an inefficiency can be a couple of things.
1) It can be a trigger that need not exist due to another trigger fires on the same event.
Note, that practically any two triggers that fire on the same event, can be combined, with the exception of triggers that turn off or on.
This is due to the fact that we can use if-then-else for the conditions.

2) It can be a way you do something, that just doesn't have to be done that way. (Things like manually putting a if-then-else 8 times with the same actions but with different players can be avoided by looping 8 times through one if-then-else and using integer A as the player number)

Not one thing I could think of to do better.

Link to a helpful tutorial

General Terrain

1) Tileset

Choose your tileset carefully: a combination of about 3 or more different types of grass for forests is not a luxury.
The tileset is the base of the terrain, it's very important that you learn to combine tilesets that look good together (note that some of the edges of tilesets can be different when next to another type, you need to think about that too: what looks good next to what?).
Most people start out with 1 or 2 different types of tileset that don't match eachother, then go to randomly placing a few tilesets that do match eachother and then finally, after some practice, can succesfully combine tilesets and know where to place them.

Here's what hurt you, you used a basic tileset, and it shows up.
You should definitely focus some more on the terraining for this map.

2) Transition

This part also belongs to the tileset somehow.
When you're creating a terrain and you're using different tilesets, make sure that they are mixed and that you can't see any clear border.

No transitions, period.

3) Cliffs

Try not to use cliffs (in the terrain palette: apply cliff: increase/decrease one/two).
Cliffs could be used when you actually need a cliff, but when you need a mountain of some sorts, or a wall use the raise land tool or doodads.

Meh, not really anything that hurt you.

You should also never use the standard water-tools for the terrain, there's a far better (yet more complicated) option to create water.
Cliffs could be used when you actually need a cliff, but when you need a mountain of some sorts, or a wall use the raise land tool or doodads.
The thing here is that you need to create a new map in order to make this work, I don't think you can adjust this when you've already made your map.
What you need to do: when creating a new map, there's an option called "Initial Water Level", if you set this to "shallow water", you start off with your terrain completely under (shallow) water.
Afterwards, when the terrain is created, you should raise the land (not with the cliff tool!) so it is slightly above water-level (it should look like land on the minimap, but may not be too high).
When this is done, click the "apply height: plateau" tool and drag it all along the terrain, starting from the little patch of land, now the entire terrain should be above water-level.
To create a river now is very easy: lower the terrain and you've got water - this can be done to create puddles, rivers, sea, whatever you want.

Here, it's fine.


1) Spamming doodads

Doodads may never be spammed, you can place a lot of environmental doodads (such as shrubs), but never overdo it.
A lot of people spam things like rocks, waterfalls or fire, but that is not the point of doodads.

No doodad spam, actually, no doodads :/

2) Cinematic Doodads

Cinematic doodads should only be used in rare occasions and should never be spammed.
I know it is very flashy and might be appealing to some, but believe me: it looks far from good.
The fire is probably the most used cinematic doodad and I really don't care if it's used in the right places (a burning house for example).


3) Random doodads

Never randomly place doodads.
Doodads are supposed to add some additional beauty to the terrain, not to make it chaotic.


4) Emptiness

Empty terrains are very ugly, if you compare older or less professional maps with higher quality maps, you can immediately see that the higher the quality of the map, the less empty the terrain looks.
This is because, usually, people who know how to map, also know that the terrain is a major part in the entire game: I don't like playing on empty, bad terrains.
The solution? Environmental doodads! These are the most useful doodads and your map should exist out of about 70-80% environmental doodads (and trees are probably the second most used doodad).
A tree doodad is just a tree, nothing special, but once you add a bit of shrub and mushrooms underneath, it makes it feel more realistic.
Yet again: do not spam these either... they can look good in greater numbers than most doodads, but that's no reason to spam them.

Indeed, the terrain was very empty, you may think a terrain isn't eeded for a map like this, but you;d be wrong.


1) Weather/Fog

These are main ingredients when creating a cinematic and shouldn't be forgotten in other maps either.
There's no need for a weather effect (in fact: please don't touch it if you don't really know what you need to do with it), but a (triggered, not weather) fog can drastically improve how a terrain looks, or the 'aura' it gives off.
Creepy maps need a darker fog, happy maps a light one, you can make it change for day/night purposes, you can change it depending on the region you're in.
Basically this decides what kind of map you're playing

To make a default fog: go to Scenario -> Options, there you should see the option "Use Terrain fog", set style to "Linear" (nothing else) and choose your color.
You probably need to lower the starting Z as well (about 1000, or even less if you want), otherwise you won't see a lot of the fog.

I recommend adding a VERY light one.

2) Sky

You seriously don't need this if you don't use camera's that have an angle of attack of at least 330 degrees...
In cinematics however, it decorates the entire terrain and - if it matches the cinematic theme - it really expresses the general idea.

General Obj Editor Tips

1) Ability Tooltips

I have written an entire maps worth of ability tooltips before, about 60 of them. It took me about a week. Seriously. Put some serious thought into these. Anything and everything we need to know should be here.
If it has a cooldown. If it has a certain range, and even if it's melee. What targets it can affect. How many targets. How long to cast. The basic idea of it. And anything else you can come up with.

Quite a few custom items, and all are fairly original.

2) Other Tooltips

2A) Regular Unit Tooltips

Now, these are pretty easy.
They should include things like, unit classification. Unit's range. What the unit can/can't target. The basic info on the unit. The build time for the unit. Attack cooldown. And anything else you can come up with.

2B) Hero Tooltips

These are a bit more intricate.
They should include things like, abilities. Stats and stats per level. Base attack. Lore behind the hero. Range of the hero. Attack cooldown. Targets he/she can attack. Any other special information. And anything else you can come up with.

Unit tooltips really unnecessary here.

3) Balancing

Now, I really can't tell you how to balance your map. All I can say is if you play it with a full-house and you play as every position(not every color) and noticed it was no harder nor any easier, then you can say it's been tested for balance. Outside of that, it hasn't been properly tested.

Obviously everything was balanced.

General Gameplay Tips

1) Replay value

This refers to how well your map can be replayed. Major bugs, imbalances, and other things to just generally mess up the gameplay, will affect this.

Now, I'd give this a perfect score, but the terrain is just so bland and boring, the only real draw to this map is it's hooks, although, those are enough to get you a decent grade here single handedly.

2) Bugs and how they affect your map

Now, a bug is anything that is supposed to happen but can affect gameplay. Things like glitches for example. These can not only hurt the replay value of the map, but are general annoyances, and can lead to imbalances.

No reportable bugs, that I've found.

3) Laginess, and overall file size.

Now, lag can be caused by a couple of FIXABLE(key word here) things.

1) It can be because you have a lot of triggers. Now, on battle.net if you have more than 300 triggers, your map probably goes to hell. This can be easily fixed, by combining triggers. I've never seen a map that actually needed 300+ triggers.
2) It can be due to trigger leaks. If your game starts out fine, but gets worse, it's probably due to leaks. We've a number of tutorials on this site alone to help here.
3) It can be due to unnecessary doodad spam. This is pretty self-explanatory. Too many doodads are a bad thing. In the object manager you can see how many doodads you have, and what the limits are.
4) Just a big file size in general. Things like imports, music, triggers, and terrain size, all contribute to map size. If your map exceeds 7 MB, it probably won't have a high replay value, due to the lag it's bound to have on Battle.net.

50 pudges on the map all casting meathook and no lag for me, and as there wouldn't be that many in a regular game anyways, there is definitely no problem here.

My final comments/concerns

The description was good, maybe some color to it wouldn't hurt.
The terrain was bland and the weakspot of this map, big time.
The triggers were heavenly.
The obj editor work was great, and well thought through.
The gameplay was definitely fun, but the terrain really screws it up.
All-in-all though, a great map, with great work put into it.

My final rating,


And I would definitely review this again if it gets some better terrain, because I'm sure this can make a 5/5.
Also, if you were to add MUCH better terrain, more items, and shops, then it may even reach a DC, but for now, let's focus on a 5/5 =P
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Level 5
Dec 3, 2009
Regardless it's the almighty Pudge Wars. If you haven't played it before, you're in need of playing classic games.

Hope that lightning desync bug was fixed :ogre_haosis:. Raging at other people ingame not to pick up that powerup made the game horrendous to endure. Will be uploading this to my bot.

I already played it i just think its too short and no screenshots for new players
Level 15
Jul 6, 2009
I already played it i just think its too short and no screenshots for new players

Too short? How so is the map too short?

And yeah... getting there about screenshots (hopefully) :3


v2.00 B06d released! Hopefully - everything works properly now. By the way - I give up on The Hiveworkshop's map uploader, I hate it. Makes me really want to use the first reply post as the new description thing >_>

@ Review ~ I'll think of making terrain better in v2.01 (the intended AI version :p)
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There is no need to change terrain on these kind of maps. It's just gameplay that will or won't improve it

But why not to remove blizzard cliffs, add some alpha tiles, special effect like doodads and few custom imported models?

I like current one, simple, blizzard look like, but terrain always can be better!
Level 15
Jul 6, 2009
Update: v2.00

Finished, bug free, enough testing to kill all the bugs and errors, thank you all! Now then, I can finally start working on new stuff, potentially terrain, but mainly AI.

Ok; I'm working on a beach themed terrain, with random scenery events happening such as some random beachball being thrown or the sunlight reflecting across the water. But first thing's first, the actual terrain :3

I'll post up the map later, which will have only the terrain.


I think, stuff the AI. I'm working more on the other things. Actually, because I kind of regard working on this map as a when-i-feel-like-it thing, I just work on whatever (but shhh.. :p).
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Level 15
Jul 6, 2009
I would, but I'm busy at the moment. Don't expect any update anytime soon, perhaps maybe around late November / December. I've also decided that terrain is no longer priority and will be done after the coding is done. So two versions; Basic + Sexy Terrain versions.
Level 15
Jul 6, 2009
That's not the concept I was actually pondering. In Trolls & Elves (Mind you it is and, not vs), the arena layout is different; different pathing means different base combinations etc. My idea was to have the same layout, but just different decorations. Think of DotA, do you remember the -ts command? It stood for -terrain snow. That's basically what I'm doing. But I've actually scratched the idea of different terrain entirely, I don't think it's worth my time, and worth the result.

P.S.: I need to subscribe to this thread :)
Level 5
Aug 24, 2010
o yea i know
to be honest most people that wanna change the terrain just use that 3rd party program
i cant remember what its called

but having different layouts isnt that bad an idea maybe in a distant distant future
i had a look at the beach map looks very nice

cant wait for the next version lol those 1 hook headshots get kinda annoying
also is it possible to subscribe to map updates?
Level 15
Jul 6, 2009
o yea i know
to be honest most people that wanna change the terrain just use that 3rd party program
i cant remember what its called

Wasn't that some DotA Manager thingy, was it DotA specific? I dunno how it works. I'm guessing it imports textures and the like to overwrite the Felwood ones.

but having different layouts isnt that bad an idea maybe in a distant distant future

I couldn't think of any different layouts at the moment :)

i had a look at the beach map looks very nice

Thanks ^.^ But I've decided to abandon it. As I've said xO

cant wait for the next version lol those 1 hook headshots get kinda annoying

Huh? One hook headshots? o_O

also is it possible to subscribe to map updates?

Are you asking for this map, or me when I said:

P.S.: I need to subscribe to this thread :)

Well, I usually post on my thread at TheHelper, and I've got no site for this thingy / no blog / update place. -Shrugs- Rest assured though, v2.01 is on it's way :O
Level 5
Aug 24, 2010
remember i sent you a replay
of a 1v1 against ai
and there were several headshots
i think it might be an ai only glitch though
cause the other times it happened i was playing with my friend against ai
but when i play with no ai i havent had it happen yet

i meant with the subscribe if you update the map does it send a message or only if someone posts a comment

about the terrain manager i saw my friend using it on other maps
it just replaces one terrain type with another
Level 15
Jul 6, 2009
I most certainly do remember that email / replay. I've noticed a few occasional single hook headshots in some games too, but I'm hoping this will be fixed in v2.01... I don't actually know the cause of these Headshots.

i meant with the subscribe if you update the map does it send a message or only if someone posts a comment

If you subscribe, I believe you'll get an update in your user CP. I think you can tinker around with it somewhere in the User CP as well, you can set it to receive emails once a reply is added, or weekly, etc.

about the terrain manager i saw my friend using it on other maps
it just replaces one terrain type with another

Seems like it just overwrites the textures in the MPQ so that it appears as whatever... I guess you... I guess you can use that if you wanted to have a different terrain setting.

Thanks :)
Level 19
Feb 25, 2009
The terrain swap program is made for DotA or for maps that uses the Felwood layout, because the program changes the MPQ files from there in order to show different terrain.

I was positive about changing the overall look on the terrain, but that can't appeal to all the players and people might start to ask for a change in every version.

But, I think adding a command to rotate camera would give great results.
Level 15
Jul 6, 2009
I was positive about changing the overall look on the terrain, but that can't appeal to all the players and people might start to ask for a change in every version.

Basically this, and that it's too much of a bother to add terrain. It's been the same old boring terrain for years but people still play it.

But, I think adding a command to rotate camera would give great results.

Why is this? I can see that you could rotate the view so the river goes horizontally rather than vertically, but I'd get annoyed by it rather than find it convenient. But that's my initial thought of the idea, I don't know about what it would be like if implemented and about others thoughts.

jass editor can easily break if you have antivirus that does not like it :(

Sorry, I don't understand o.o ~ Unless you meant NewGen and that antiviruses report it as a dangerous file? That's normal, you just add an exception. It's because of the way NewGen works is why it's picked up as a dangerous.


Searching for the reasons things go wrong is a pain! I think I may have pinpointed why Headshot! occurs randomly ... however there were Headshots in 1v1, how is that possible D: ~ I was testing with multiple AIs o.o .. o.o...




Do I even need to comment? Its the pudge wars!

5/5, +rep and a ticket to hell for such a great map!
Level 5
Aug 24, 2010
i think itd be better to lower the increment
also i think being able to change the zoom of the camera is more useful than the rotation

could you make it so when you die with that suicide bomb it goes away cause sometimes you respawn and then die instantly to it
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Level 15
Jul 6, 2009
i think itd be better to lower the increment
also i think being able to change the zoom of the camera is more useful than the rotation

could you make it so when you die with that suicide bomb it goes away cause sometimes you respawn and then die instantly to it

I think I'm going to leave the Radius as is, there just hasn't been enough talk about it :( It's a problem, I know, but is decreasing the increment the best way to go?

Anyways, I'm still working on this. The AI is much more smarter now :)!
Level 5
Aug 24, 2010
nice job the AIs pro as
if they bought items aswell theyd be no way i could beat them
but did the bomb get changed so that who ever has it is the owner of it
if thats the case you should make it so attacking doesnt give it away

personally id like it to be the original so its kinda like playing hot potato