[Picture] Naga Teachtree Needs

[VeljkoM]

Naga Teachtree Needs

 

[Misha]

lookin' good

 

[sacridshadow]

I like this. And you got it up in only two days. That's pretty fast. Oh, and I just notice that it says Naga Teack Tree. I first saw Teach Tree. XD

 

[VeljkoM]

No that is teach its just h looks little like k. And it took me less then two days I made it yesterday morning (your evening). Anyway this sort of gave me motivation and I think i'll follow this as a list. First to finally find some mur'gul ability.

 

[Adaethus]

The warlord model is somehow bugged.

 

[VeljkoM]

Well if you would be kind enough to tell Misha what exactly is wrong he might fix it. Or he'll kill you for saying his model is bad depending of his mood.

 

[Lore-Wolf]

It does look very nice Vel, Now its much easier to see.

 

[Misha]

I wonder..

if the arm is the trouble then you can set the animation name to "stand ready" so it looks more naj'entus-ish

 

[Animalpower]

I think that it is wrong to name the Snap Dragon Arbalester, because Arbalester is a mechanical weapon, the ballista.

 

[VeljkoM]

Oh it's simple. Snap Dragon is default model and actual unit should be naga with crossbow.

 

[Kaos]

Some thoughts.

Over this is really cool and I'm going to use the as inspriation for my map work.

I like the Snap Dragon and would keep it personally.

The Royal Guards being limited number is a good idea, but it sort of implies it's a "best" unit which limits choice in how one plays the Naga. Or is more a matter of they'd only get ridiculous in huge swarms. I figured food usually handles this sort of thing, but I like the idea of new mechanics.

I'd leave a unit with Summon Sea Elemental and remove the Aqua Golem for the Dragon Turtle or an Incursor.

Heros: I think the Naga Death Knight is an awesome looking model and neat concept, but why would it be serving Lady Vashj's or any other group of Naga? The Naga have no pact with Ner'zhul and retain ties to the Legion which wants his head on a platter. Maybe the Death Knight should be neutral to replace the Sea Witch and give the Naga the War Queen or promote the Deep Stalker.

 

[Misha]

hmm.. if i could find someone to edit the attack anims, a naga arbalester could be build just like that.. :S

 

[VeljkoM]

I would like to offer royal guard as optional individual upgrade for myrmidon. It would offer new abilities and wouldn't be OP unit or simple stronger version of myrmidon.

Enchantress summons Sea Elemental, Turtle is used for lumber system (forgot to place it on the list) and naga golem sort of needs better model but is requested unit by Naga group (sunken ruin statue?). About Incusior well he would be melee Siege which at the moment is Deep Stalker (though his attack type could be changed)

Not that lore plays important part in race creation but still Death Knights existed way before Nerzhul so connection to him is not needed and Naga are connected to Old Gods not Legion. Lady Vashj is just ruling Outland naga and the Queen Azshara rules Naga. I also prefer heroes to stay this way. Death Knight is a must for campaign also.

 

[Kaos]

Yeah I was going through and saw about the turtle as lumber mill and alternate tower. They'd be half-building anyway I can see why they didn't make this list. I actually think that's an awesome way to use the turtles without giving them another recycled creep.

I agree for RG and that's how I've been working them. They are super-expensive tanks with magic but the Myrmidions are more efficient in terms of raw damage output for cost in resources and food. The limit is a mechanic I'm going to try, but I feel like it shouldn't be a major factor of their balance.

I see, I was thinking of a golem OF water, which had too much overlap. If you guys like a statue unit, that seems cool.

As for demons, they summoned Sargeras originally and Lady Vashj helped Illidian do the Legion's bidding, or try anyway. They aren't allied per se, but I think having "ties" puts it well.

Gul'dans Death Knights were not entirely the same thing as the modern ones, most of that generation wound up as Liches in the end if I recall. The tabletop game describes the new ones as all bound to Ner'zhul. I don't know much about WoW, but their Ebon order seems more or less anagalous to the Forsaken.

So he's obviously not a Death Knight under the service of Ner'zhul. I think the type-I death knights have to be dead, they're some kind of quasi-liche... so I'm guessing he's a liberated former servant of Ner'zhul using his new powers to help his old people?

So then I ask, did you ever figure out what the Arbalester does? Does it have that immobile shot power?

And is the Naga Sorceror a caster or a harvester?

 

[VeljkoM]

That is faint link as it was Old Gods who brainwashed Azshara to do it in the first place.

Death Knight is a death knight only the servitude differs (and recently being dead or alive...). And it was followers of Nerz'hul who followed him through portal that ended up as liches, death knights from second era are mostly gone (dreanosh explosion) but Teron for example is still active. Ebon Knights are former scourge knights. Don't try to think about warcraft lore as it is beyond repairing even if you don't add tabletop and other sources. I personally have given up from warcraft or just only consider first 3 games as real and ignore anything else.

I honestly don't know much about this Death Knight but I doubt he will have any connection to Nerzhul.

Albastor ability is still in question...but immobile shot sounds fun sort of?

Sorcerer is caster, adherent (not in the list, basically siren with animation of acolyte) is worker.

 

[Kaos]

Heh, wasn't aware the Old Gods got involved that soon. War3 era lore was that the demons, specifically Sargeras, promised wonders and such if the Highborne brought them over.

"And it was followers of Nerz'hul who followed him through portal that ended up as liches, death knights from second era are mostly gone (dreanosh explosion) but Teron for example is still active."
And who do you think those followers were? Mostly death knights looking to him for a new plan now that Gul'dan was dead and Azeroth lost. Not every 1st gen death knight became a liche and not every liche was a 1st gen death knight, but a lot went that path.

Warcraft lore is something I follow and I think tabletop makes it a lot easier to handle. Tabletop and WoW were developed in tandem and the tabletop rules probably give the most "realistic" picture of the world except maybe for the novels, since it has the most possible detail. It's WoW I tend to distrust as a source since Diablo-style quests + MMO means who did what when is very vague.

I mean really if lore doesn't matter you may as well give them a Hydralisk... it's not really about the Naga if you throw lore to the wind. The Demon Hunter in an interesting unit partially because they are so unlike the other Night Elves. I'm not saying it has to be any of the existing options, but if the Naga DK wasn't freed in a manner like the Ebon knights then SOMETHING should be explained about it. I went WTF when I heard "Blood Elf paladin" but it made more sense when I found out they were bleeding an angel, same with Undead in the Horde when WoW was announced.

Maybe the Naga DK is channeling power through some artifact, like Frostmourne, only older and of unknown origins. Or maybe they are an order serving an Old God? Lots of options for a new kind of Death Knight, but it should get addressed.

As for Arbalester, I liked the Immobile shot, I believe it was shot down over concerns about damage type or somesuch. However it occurs to me we could probably change damage type in the switch.

Thanks for clearing up my caster confusion. So that is why Summoner is now Siren

 

[VeljkoM]

There is difference in not following 100% lore and being retard and that's what stoops me from adding Hydralisk. Death Knight was added cuz of popular choice and as I said I am not involved much with the lore planing of campaign where this race is supposed to appear. There will be logical or illogical excuse but it is not lore that makes gameplay is is other way around. People wanted Death Knight they got him I have done my job. I never really liked idea that classes are race or nation based anyway as anyone could learn anything if they wanted. Nothing stops human to be shaman except his culture, would be weird but not impossible.

Ah yes novels written by second grade novelists that couldn't come up with their own stuff so instead grabbed them selves on money train. Some novels are better then others (sine wow time novels exist to justify wow lore) but the actual literal quality is low in game novels. As for tabletop I wasn't aware that even exists nor do I care really. Besides its the "game" that concerns me not stories which is what justifies wow (I don't play it as I am not mmo player but that's different story).

Ah well we still need arbalester model till then it is snap dragon.

Yea maybe if I knew how to swap skins adherent would have summoner skin and siren would be siren.

 

[Kaos]

Yeah... that time stuff I'm not so sure about. I read Day of the Dragon, Lord of the Clans, and The Last Guardian. I actually have the first time novel and never felt like reading it, so I'm in no position to argue that one.

I understand you aren't lore guy and I never said Naga couldn't be Death Knights (one thing I like about tabletop over WoW is less arbitrary racial limits, not that you care) just that Death Knight in Warcraft has certain meanings and expectations. I was really just curious myself if there WAS a story, since it could be very interesting.

 

[VeljkoM]

Those 3 are one of the better novels regarding the lore so you have chosen wisely (though i hate warcraft dragon in general especially cuz of time travel which was used in wow to defeat deathwing...).

I am ex-lore guy but I never allowed lore to limit me in race making. Anyway think this death knight will learn abilities in the new lands where campaign is taking place. So you are right he won't just appear out of sky and I am sorry if i was to harsh and hardheaded.

 

[Chucky]

sorry to say but this techtree sucks balls.
Albalester ? wtf is that ?
Bash on Myrmidon ? Spamming Bash on 8-10 Myrmidons is not a good idea for balance issues.
Sorcerer ? I have not yet seen a stupider model for that.
Deep Stalker ? How can that guy be invisible ? really...
Aqua Golem. Can't even start on this one...
Death Knight ? Really ? You ever say a Naga Death Knight ? You ever saw a naga going to northrend and becoming corrupted by Ner'zhul ? Jeez...

 

[VeljkoM]

Arbalester is crossbow, model as you see isn't made which should be naga with crossbow (before you start preaching about that remember that Sea Witches use bows against logic too), same for golem model.

About Bash there is such thing as balancing. For starters naga myrmidon is tier 3 unit that is rather expensive, duration and chance of bash will naturally be lowered. Besides third tier melee units in most cases come with passive abilities.

Well I am sure guy who made sorcerer model might take offense at that.

Deep Stalker well guess he camouflages using his mutation to blend in with surroundings. As for real life logic well tell me about murloc nightcrawlers and bandits.

Death Knights aren't Nerzhul only property you know, it is for campaign where it will be explained. Besides Arbalester, Death Knight and Naga golem (guess was inspired by golems used by murlocs in Demo camapaign) were decided in naga group to be used. Research before going around insulting people.

 

[Sin'dorei300]

Nice!

 

[NagaRulez]

Found it.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Interesting... I have a lot of thoughts, but most importantly, I noticed there are only 10 units (11 if you keep the Mur'gul Slave as a worker). Are the other 1 (2) not designed yet?

 

[VeljkoM]

Worker is summoner and there is also Dragon Turtle + Slaves for wood harvest and defense.