Outland Rivalry

[Moderator]

21:56, 9th Jul 2014
Hell_Master: Map awaiting update with a rating of 2/5 quoting JCarillo's review:

[rainbow]Map Review[/rainbow] by: JCarrill0

Map Name: Outland Rivalry Map Author: ForgottenNightmare​ [COLOR=White Intro[/COLOR]]You map seemed interesting so I decided to test it, and give you my review. Unexpected tab 1 [tab=[B]GENERAL:[/B]] Reading the description, I can honestly say you need a better template for a description, I posted a link above this post, check it out. A user who created a custom map, Custom races, intrigued me. [/tab] [tab=[B]PROS:[/B]] Blood Elf Race, Fel Orcs Race, Naga, Demons! previous playable race now used as creeps, i actually did this as merc camps in another altered melee map I still got in the works. Starting with a random hero Works! (so so many times a custom race map always forgets this part! Beautiful Custom UI for the Blood Elves! (seen it before, but still beautiful!) Fel Orc do not use chaos damage! Woot! [/tab] [tab=[B]Need Updates:[/B]] Improved Bows (research) needs button placement Improved Bows (Research) requires a Keep & Stronghold. Marksmenship (research needs button placement Marksmenship (Research) requires War Mill Castle, Blacksmith, & Fortress Steel Arrowheads Upgrade) needs button placement Idle Workers icon for Blood Elf still shows Peasants. Dragonhawk Riding (research) needs button placement Skin for Blood Elf Paladin is not working properly. The book is blacked out, and so it the cape. Idle workers for Fel Orcs still shows green peons, not Fel Orc Peons. Fel Orc Blade Berserker needs button placement. Fel Orc Warlock & Shadowpriest use the same hotkey. [/tab] [tab=[B]Needs Fixes:[/B]] Elf Farm, missing tooltip (Hot Key works though!) Blood Elf Blademaster Train icon is green if you have a another hero. Mage Tower/High Elf barracks missing tooltip (the oen that creates Glaive throwers & Golems). Also missing Hotkey. Griffin Avery missing tooltip (hot key works) Strom Hammer (research) missing tooltip. Fel Orc Berserker Train icon is green if you have another hero. Mount Nether Dragon icon on Fel Orc crossbowman is Green (missing icon) until it is researched. Fel Orc Berserker is missing tooltip when you try to research frenzy. Also turns green when you auto-cast it. (which I guess your not suppose to be able to auto cast it) [/tab] [tab=[B]QUESTIONS:[/B]] Why do Archer needs a blacksmith instead of a Lumber mill to be trained? (I'm a Warcraft II Player) What is a Walkerie? Do you mean Valkarie? Fel Orc have netherdrake riding, but turn in black drakes when they mount? Neatherdragons do chaos damage, but once mounted it's only Seige? (perhaps remove the chaos dmg?) Naga Slaves have no shadow? Why do you have farms if there is no food limit? [/tab] [tab=[B]SUGGESTIONS:[/B]] re-check all of your tooltips, some of them are missing, and are not accurate, such as the Fel Orc upgrade, all incorrect. Demon workers are perm invisible, so I can scout any enemy without them seeing me. That's kinda OP imo. Perhaps remove the perm invisibility? [/tab] [COLOR=Silver Conclusion[/COLOR]] I completely Skipped Naga & Demons, They have a lot of issues and I decided rather then review them, just for you to update it, correct the fixes and I can come back later and check it out then. "Random hero" also do not work for either race. The terrain while custom needs to have more stuff added imo. In the end, This map looks more of a beta stage then a final stage. Finish updating it and put it in it's final stages before uploading it. Rating: 2/5 Lacking Vote: Pending Spoiler [Rainbow]Disclaimer: I am not considered an "Official Hive" Map reviewer as of yet, but I do hope to become one in the possible future.[/rainbow]

 

[ForgottenNightmare]

let me know if you find any bugs besides Naga UI Tile 4 pls and i'll try to fix them up the best i can.

 

[eubz]

I am guessing this is an altered melee map. I might try this one when I got my free time. Meanwhile, have some time improving your description. You might want to add some screenshots, It'd be good.

 

[ForgottenNightmare]

I don't know how to do that sorry.

 

[eubz]

The templates here might be useful for your description http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/miscellaneous-tutorials-456/map-description-templates-171659/

 

[JCarrill0]

The templates here might be useful for your description http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/miscellaneous-tutorials-456/map-description-templates-171659/

Um..

[Update] -Kobas-'s user templates are no longer a recommended option to improve your description - Most users cannot properly edit the template and end up making a description that just doesn't fulfill its ultimate purpose -> Being quick to check out and learn something about the map's gameplay

Map Description Generator (No BBcode skills required)

 

[JCarrill0]

[rainbow]Map Review[/rainbow] by: JCarrill0

Map Name: Outland Rivalry Map Author: ForgottenNightmare​ Intro You map seemed interesting so I decided to test it, and give you my review. Unexpected tab 1 [tab][tabheader]GENERAL:[/tabheader] Reading the description, I can honestly say you need a better template for a description, I posted a link above this post, check it out. A user who created a custom map, Custom races, intrigued me. [/tab] [tab][tabheader]PROS:[/tabheader] Blood Elf Race, Fel Orcs Race, Naga, Demons! previous playable race now used as creeps, i actually did this as merc camps in another altered melee map I still got in the works. Starting with a random hero Works! (so so many times a custom race map always forgets this part! Beautiful Custom UI for the Blood Elves! (seen it before, but still beautiful!) Fel Orc do not use chaos damage! Woot! [/tab] [tab][tabheader]Need Updates:[/tabheader] Improved Bows (research) needs button placement Improved Bows (Research) requires a Keep & Stronghold. Marksmenship (research needs button placement Marksmenship (Research) requires War Mill Castle, Blacksmith, & Fortress Steel Arrowheads Upgrade) needs button placement Idle Workers icon for Blood Elf still shows Peasants. Dragonhawk Riding (research) needs button placement Skin for Blood Elf Paladin is not working properly. The book is blacked out, and so it the cape. Idle workers for Fel Orcs still shows green peons, not Fel Orc Peons. Fel Orc Blade Berserker needs button placement. Fel Orc Warlock & Shadowpriest use the same hotkey. [/tab] [tab][tabheader]Needs Fixes:[/tabheader] Elf Farm, missing tooltip (Hot Key works though!) Blood Elf Blademaster Train icon is green if you have a another hero. Mage Tower/High Elf barracks missing tooltip (the oen that creates Glaive throwers & Golems). Also missing Hotkey. Griffin Avery missing tooltip (hot key works) Strom Hammer (research) missing tooltip. Fel Orc Berserker Train icon is green if you have another hero. Mount Nether Dragon icon on Fel Orc crossbowman is Green (missing icon) until it is researched. Fel Orc Berserker is missing tooltip when you try to research frenzy. Also turns green when you auto-cast it. (which I guess your not suppose to be able to auto cast it) [/tab] [tab][tabheader]QUESTIONS:[/tabheader] Why do Archer needs a blacksmith instead of a Lumber mill to be trained? (I'm a Warcraft II Player) What is a Walkerie? Do you mean Valkarie? Fel Orc have netherdrake riding, but turn in black drakes when they mount? Neatherdragons do chaos damage, but once mounted it's only Seige? (perhaps remove the chaos dmg?) Naga Slaves have no shadow? Why do you have farms if there is no food limit? [/tab] [tab][tabheader]SUGGESTIONS:[/tabheader] re-check all of your tooltips, some of them are missing, and are not accurate, such as the Fel Orc upgrade, all incorrect. Demon workers are perm invisible, so I can scout any enemy without them seeing me. That's kinda OP imo. Perhaps remove the perm invisibility? [/tab] Conclusion I completely Skipped Naga & Demons, They have a lot of issues and I decided rather then review them, just for you to update it, correct the fixes and I can come back later and check it out then. "Random hero" also do not work for either race. The terrain while custom needs to have more stuff added imo. In the end, This map looks more of a beta stage then a final stage. Finish updating it and put it in it's final stages before uploading it. Rating: 2/5 Lacking Vote: Pending Spoiler [Rainbow]Disclaimer: I am not considered an "Official Hive" Map reviewer as of yet, but I do hope to become one in the possible future.[/rainbow]

 

[ForgottenNightmare]

I completely Skipped Naga & Demons, They have a lot of issues and I decided rather then review them, just for you to update it, correct the fixes and I can come back later and check it out then. "Random hero" also do not work for either race.

Please I can't fix them if I don't have some place to start. Besides the Random Hero Generator which is an easy fix with a little bit of code.

 

[JCarrill0]

Please I can't fix them if I don't have some place to start. Besides the Random Hero Generator which is an easy fix with a little bit of code.

you can make a trigger switch out the heroes, such as if player gets warden, switch hero with naga seawitch.
Or
you can change the heroes listed int he game play constants.
if you need any help with map making, post a thread in the World Editor Help Zone

 

[VeljkoM]

So I decided to analyze the races and see how balanced they are. should note that I am comparing your races with standard blizz races so while it might be unbalanced by regular melee standards but not by your own.

I will say that it is a big problem that there are no low leveling creeps. There are no disabled custom icons. Also map is not set to use latest patch (spell breaker has heavy armor, necropolis has decent damage, light air units not available till 3rd tier). Infinite resources and population make game less fun for me and I don't understand why you still even have farms.

Naga

Naga

General problem is that all custom icons lack Disabled versions and you can make several of same heroes and icons seem out off place in build list, item shop and unit training buildings. Unsure why are you keeping just 2 attack/armor upgrades instead of making it to standard 4 seeing as you added way more units to be effected by them.

Overall it feels like there are too many units and nothing original really. Many new units are barely edited creeps.

Main Building - still has night elf treant upgrade.
Worker - Has advantage that he gathers 20 lumber (unedited naga worker harvesting) and also building list could use rearranging. Right now tier 2 unit making building is in first row.

*Coral Bed - Has burrow ability to call workers but no attack or exit button. Also uses Farm icon, I suggest you get model viewing tool and take a snapshot and turn that in to an icon.

Lumber Hall - Icon placement could really use some work. Do Naga really need both orc spikes upgrades and night elf well upgrade?

Tidal Guardian - Remember to replace building armor with heavy armor and reduce the damage a little. In campaign it was ok for it to be unbalanced but not for melee map.

Coral Reef (there really wasn't better model?):
Murgul Reaver - You left his unreasonable cost (120 gold). He has grunt damage and isn't that squishy yet cheaper then other tier 1 units. Not sure if there is a point to have frenzy at tier 3 as there are a lot of units to do better job and no more excuse with lower food cost. Should better be moved to tier 2. Yeah I know undead get it at tier 3 but they get cannibalism earlier and less competition for melee unit.

Snap Dragon - Don't you think it is unreasonable to have unit with +400 hp upgrade. He also needs requirement "Lumber Hall".

Berserker Elemental - Far to powerful for tier 1. Has chaos attack, high damage and aura. Non of abilities require an upgrade.

Shrine of Azshara
Siren - Same as before
Murg'ul Shadowcaster (no training name)- 1000hp caster with chaos attack and heavy armor for 85 gold. Only Hex actually needs an upgrade and I don't really think casters should have direct damage abilities like Blizzard (Holy Rain) as you already have more then enough units with purpose for damage.
Couatl - 16-20 damage might be too low. Right now his purpose is just to abolish magic.

Spawning grounds
Murmidon - still same but reachable at tier 2.
Hydra(no training name) - Competes with Snap Dragon for same role. Difference is heavy armor, slightly higher damage and spiting ability.
Dragon Turtle - You changed it to be more traditional long ranged siege but forgot to give him ground attack and ability to target trees. All abilities require no upgrades.
Makrura (no training name)- Unit does not benefit from any upgrades. Doesn't really have a purpose as you get myrmidons at tier 2.

Deepsee Abyss (lacks underground texture)- Why does the ultimate building have 3 units?

Naga Royal Guard (no training name)- This is most powerful unit in warcraft 3 rivaled only by Doom Guard.
Aquanite Golem - I don't get the purpose of this unit. Uses stats of stone golem and has Mountain giant upgrades (located in wrong building) and also pulverize.
Aqua Dragon - Seems like standard tier 3 flyer.

Blood Elves

Human race plain and simple just with some not really good changes. I'll only mention units that have something edited here.

Archer - Well actually rifleman with night elf archer upgrades so better then riflemen and archers. There really is no reason for her to mount dragonhawk as you need to wait till 3rd tier when you get Valkyries.

Knight - Could use a custom icon.

Arcane Glaive Thrower - Still organic and missile is still using mortar team missile arc and has delayed missile animation. You should copy data from glaive thrower. Or better yet get more interesting model.

Arcane Golem - I think this unit could use secondary role besides melee siege. Siege Engine at least has AA missiles. And this unit really is just melee siege engine that can attack units which might make it unbalanced. Needs a custom icon and upgrade uses passive icon instead of icon with borders.

Dragonhawk - Has 175 HP that is just to low. Also to get regular Dragonhawk you must spend 295 gold and an upgrade for a unit that isn't that great. Also still uses mounted version icon even when archer mounts it.

Valkyrie - It isn't spelled with W. And doesn't receive attack upgrades. Other then that it is still Griffin rider.

Fel Orc

Fel Orcs are still orcs but I guess good that you resisted the urge to give them chaos attack. Feels kinda empty with since you removed few units and had no replacements. Again will mention just the changes you did.

Pig market - Way to small model compared to used tiles.

Fel Orc Crosbowmen - Supposed to mount Nether Dragon. I see no reason for this as the Nether Dragon in question is 10th level creep that is absurdly strong already. The merged version is unit with Bat rider stats which is pathetic and no way to reverse and I should remind you it cost over 600 gold to make this.

Warlock - Doesn't actually require upgrades. Always thought it was bad idea for that unit to have storm bolt.

Shadowpriest - I wasn't aware that orcs had those. Rain of Fire doesn't need an upgrade and really again why should caster have direct damage when you have units with actual role to damage other units. This unit is kinda like not overpowered Murgul Shadowcaster.

Nether Dragons (all) - First Dragon is to weak for tier 3, 2nd dragon fits sort of and 3rd dragon is overpowerd level 10 unit usually reserved for neutral dragon roost. Since these units are just creeps they lack upgrades.

Burning Legion

This is gathering of all demon creeps not a race. Needless to say this race is the most overpowered and kinda most unique of all 4 races on this map.

Tier 1
-Shade workers are invisible so hard to stop demon economy. Amusingly they can attack without being revealed and can be sacrificed to make a shade.
-Erader caster with chaos attack and has abolish magic and sleep. And that is "light" ranged unit.
-Also you get heavy armored range unit but why bother with it when you have far larger arsenal?
-Tower with 200 hp and building armor (surprisingly most towers in game have heavy armor). Can be upgraded to use chaos attack and regular damage upgrade.
-I don't get what is the deal with Shrine of Fire. It has 1200 hp but no attack. Costs 50 gold but for what exactly?

Tier 2 and 3 unlock portals that allow you to summon any demon unit from warcraft and creep units are hardly balanced. Nothing stops you to make infinite Infernals, Doom Guards, Queen of Suffering (Charm), Eredar Warlocks (85 gold), Elder Voidwalker (85 gold), Infernal Engines that can summon infernals (cheaper way to make infernals.) and so on. Of course all units benefit from attack/defense upgrades because they weren't strong enough.

And last but definitely not the least you can train Archimonde. The most powerful hero in game with Infernal Rain, Demon Portal (instant Doomguards and Fel Stalkers forever) and Finger of Death.

Ok after seeing those 4 races I can say that this really isn't that good map. Most races (with exception of Legion) are still far to much resembling their base races and the small changes are kinda not good, barely edited and most of the time makes me wonder what is the point. Most of them import space is used on custom interface while units and buildings surprisingly are lacking. Not that it is bad to use ingame models but human buildings could use a change and fel orcs could use few more units and naga would benefit from better barracks. You could at least fix tooltips and names on units, buildings, heroes and upgrades.