Negativness on template arts!

[Metalbear]

Firstly I started with trigger based map making, which lead to lack of terrain, or to be more specific NON at all! I used a blizz map, so I can just speed up my learning in gui triggers, while developing the map. Sadly, the result lead to pretty negative comments and complains that there are no new beautifies like original amazing map, or new heroes with their own custom models and so on blablbla. So, I gave up from triggering projects, as it was too long work to do alone. My next try was to train my self in terrain + doodads design. I decided to start with WoW-like maps. The first template map as I expected didnt go well and kinda turned to trollish comments thread. In next map, in which I worked my ass off just to hear atleast "cool map" comment, I had again negativeness as much as the rules can offer the user... Ive checked template map makings to see what exactly was my mistake to make my map look "not so cool". First impression was that the templates art maps are hilariously scarce, compared to the models art section. And yes, template maps are an ART! We, who design those maps, dont make this easy in 3 clicks. Its not even just about placing a tree here a stone there and done. We must find ways to make objects and surroundings to fit.

Mainly I think that the global reasons which led to this kind of comments is:
1. Screenshots - As I have noticed, the user didnt even download to check the art by himself. He just checked a screenshot which was showing half of the human camp, and commented that it wasnt done right. To be honest, screenshots make reviewers lazy and to unnappreciate the work of the author who most probably worked hes ass on it! Some random dud as well uploaded hes maps including the words the description "this is my first campaign!". Ive checked personally hes maps - SO TERRIBLE! Hes terrain was flat, he spammed trees as walls, put stones randomly and made a dirt road on the whole grass area island... The comments were much better then I had in my maps. And on top on all, the funny thing was that he DIDNT upload a single screenshot about it, and he manage to get ALLOT more download clicks! You can even check hes project, to see for what I am talking! A better prove cant be given for the screenshots removal, I think.
2. Screenshots - Yes, you heard me correctly that screenshots are responsible again! My computer is with pretty old video card, which takes screenshots with low quality textures and probably polygons! The result is bad looking screenshots. Not to mention my desktop resolution 1024x768!
3. Site rules - The comments contained only negative reviews. It made me feel like Ive done some very childish mistakes and spent 1 week in hard work on the map for nothing. -.- There should be some sort of thread which will teach people how to review! I dont say they should be posting only "wow amazing" comments. What I mean is as much as they state the map mistakes, to state at least what they like in the map as well... Im pretty sure that my maps are NOT that terrible! Specially my second map, from which I had big expectations!
Uhh... You get my point about this!

Write your comments and thoughts about this problem. I hope there are more template creators who felt the same way like me.

 

[Dr Super Good]

2. Screenshots - Yes, you heard me correctly that screenshots are responsible again! My computer is with pretty old video card, which takes screenshots with low quality textures and probably polygons! The result is bad looking screenshots. Not to mention my desktop resolution 1024x768!

This makes little sense. Any computer in the last 8 years could probably take a good quality high resolution screenshot. You do not need performance to take a screen shot. You can also force high resolutions on your display with correct scaling modes enabled although older cards may struggle to hit HD reliably (but its better than nothing).

Here is an example of HD terrain, taken on a historic 7800 GTS (same generation as the PS3). Terrain is not mine.

BIG IMAGE

The comments contained only negative reviews.

If you found any post offensive you should report it. If a moderator made an offensive post then make a post about it in Admin Contact. If they are just generally negative comments then ignore them (as Diablo III has shown that people like to talk shit basicly). Be aware that some comments might have a little bit of truth to them, but that is up to you to decide.

 

[Metalbear]

Thats the point, Mr. Super good! My pc already lagged ALLOT in the world editor when changing from top-down to FPS "Counter Strike"-like view! If I extend my game or video card or even desktop screensettings, I doubt I would have the nerves with that much of lag! So pretty much I can take em as low quality... Seems like WoW was optimized for such mass drawings as in there I dont have such lag like wc3 in FPS mode.

Well yea, he is right about the cliffs. What I mean is that nothing good was said to cheer up the map maker. It sounded like - "This is bad and this is bad" and I am left with the thoughts thats the map has nothing good to offer. Meh, forget it! -.-

 

[rulerofiron99]

Well yea, he is right about the cliffs. What I mean is that nothing good was said to cheer up the map maker. It sounded like - "This is bad and this is bad" and I am left with the thoughts thats the map has nothing good to offer. Meh, forget it! -.-

This is going to sound harsh, but those comments are not there to make the mapmaker feel better (or worse). The comments are there for the map itself. "This is bad and this is bad" is criticism, not an attack on you.

If someone tells you something is bad, then you know that is something you can work on.

Please remember that there are MANY maps on this site, and people don't have time to go play through each one to properly review the content. The map moderators will probably do this, but you can't expect regular users to all play your map.

spent 1 week in hard work on the map for nothing

Many of the best maps have had HUNDREDS of hours (if not thousands on some project) of dedicated effort put in, and that is the quality that many users have come to expect. You cannot expect to have the same reviews as those.

Don't let the negativity get you down, rather let it inspire you to do great things.

This makes little sense. Any computer in the last 8 years could probably take a good quality high resolution screenshot. You do not need performance to take a screen shot. You can also force high resolutions on your display with correct scaling modes enabled although older cards may struggle to hit HD reliably (but its better than nothing).

Here is an example of HD terrain, taken on a historic 7800 GTS (same generation as the PS3). Terrain is not mine.

Warcraft 3 is more than 10 years old, and an 7800, although from a very old generation, is a relatively powerful card.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Well yea, he is right about the cliffs. What I mean is that nothing good was said to cheer up the map maker. It sounded like - "This is bad and this is bad" and I am left with the thoughts thats the map has nothing good to offer. Meh, forget it! -.-

A lot of people are inexperienced in the art of reviewing. They forget to raise any positive aspects and often do not justify their negative aspects enough.

Warcraft 3 is more than 10 years old, and an 7800, although from a very old generation, is a relatively powerful card.

I am prety sure I could obtain similar results with older cards. Maybe with less AA, AF and a slightly lower resolution but the image I posted was meant to be excessive in quality. The computer with the 7800 GT struggled to run WC3 at full FPS ironicly due to some other bottleneck. The sad thing is that modern graphic cards like my 275 GTX could take an even higher quality image thanks to better AA options and higher resolution support.

 

[Metalbear]

Uuuh... Just a note: Nv5200fx and processor Sempron 2400+(which is the main reason for the lag I think). Guess I forgot to mention the word ANCIENT instead of old. xd

Oh well, I guess I will just ignore the comments.

Also, I wanted to say that screenshots should be removed from template maps as a must. Template maps are not games for sure, but they are an art to be seen by the users! The author cant show all the work he done just with screenshots. It cant be even described! The user must be able to see things by himself and in the way he likes! Ive added screenshots, cause the mod rejects the map if they are missing. Even tho I saw some templates who got approved with out screenshots, and had placed units inside...

 

[gorillabull]

BIG IMAGE

wow even at 1/4 of that visibility my we would crash

 

[RedClaw]

Well Metalbear i was feeling the same way as you do when i posted my terrains and most of them were bad,Got lots of Negative feedback,even if they were actually good i got negative feedback,as rulerofiron99 said ''The comments are there for the map itself. "This is bad and this is bad" is criticism, not an attack on you.''
So i hope this will make you feel better but i know how you feel so stay strong and keep making them terrain's.

 

[Chaosy]

that is the main reason I don't got a project. I can't terrain and the work I do with triggers is useless without a nice terrain you can't show the triggers and say this is what I have done, or well I could do that but I don't think I would get nice critism from that.

I kind of know the feeling

 

[Orcnet]

everyone is(can be) a critic, no matter how you visualize your work to be suiting, others see it lacking and problematic. I don't see criticism to be harsh or somehow bashful to others but this sorts of situation is a goal to be better and enhanced than you have done before

as a resource maker, you will realize you won't stop there just because someone is ranting about your work its in you that made you work that map and make it fancy as much as possible so never give up, you might someday find yourself improved in the future

 

[Skycraft]

Metalbear, I don't care how hard you work and I don't care how much effort and time you have put into a Warcraft 3 map. What I will tell you is that if the result is good it will get the criticism it deserves, let your work speak for itself because not everyone is going to like the result. It's a painful truth that you cannot please everyone.

Just about it think next time, just because it's negative criticism doesn't mean it's in any way bad or wrong - expecting people to instantly like your work is a disgusting way of thinking. If someone is being excessively rude to you though then just talk to a moderator and they will clean it up.

 

[RED BARON]

If you for some off chance feel that your having trouble with screensshots - Not that I can see why it would be a problem, but since it appears to be the case I would recommend MSI afterburner as a great program to take screenshots and video - It doesn't cause lag and is way easier on resources than for instance frap. It also records just about anything on the screen.

Also you might want to look around and ask people for help with reviews if you feel that people are either being unfair or not saying enough for you to make use of the critique. However also keep in mind that people will usually have a reason for whatever comment they made, so while it might be annoying check out and see if there is anything to do about the problem(s) they mention (if any). It will likely never hurt and comparing amount of people commenting on the same problem will serve as a good indication of how big the problem is.

Other than that I don't think you can do a lot about it, other than just take it as it comes.

Good luck with the map.

 

[sonofjay]

It made me feel like Ive done some very childish mistakes and spent 1 week in hard work on the map for nothing.

*sigh*

Actually it sounds like that he is angry because people keep throwing negative stuffs on his map because of the terrain. Well all you have to do is to train yourself until you become better, there are people who spent weeks, months and some took year just for there map. Your 1 week really just sounds funny to me.

But anyway, just try and try until you become a better man.

Also to become better on modding(and maybe real life) you should seriously remove the word Jealousy on your vocabulary.


EDIT:

oh wait, I remember you! You're the kid who trolls so badly on one of my melee map because of my poor terrain!

Well serves you right I guess.

 

[GhostThruster]

you know, i used to think like you. but then i realised that maybe i did suck. case in point, acknowledge if ur map is shitty, then learn from it.

 

[Metalbear]

*sigh*

Actually it sounds like that he is angry because people keep throwing negative stuffs on his map because of the terrain. Well all you have to do is to train yourself until you become better, there are people who spent weeks, months and some took year just for there map. Your 1 week really just sounds funny to me.

But anyway, just try and try until you become a better man.

Also to become better on modding(and maybe real life) you should seriously remove the word Jealousy on your vocabulary.


EDIT:

oh wait, I remember you! You're the kid who trolls so badly on one of my melee map because of my poor terrain!

Well serves you right I guess.

You mean this one? Well, I suppose its not that simple for melee with only 1 way of strategy... Sorry that I commented only on this map badly. Anyone disagreeing is usually your friend who doesnt wish to get you mad on him. I heard you had problems with the temper too.

I am done with serious wc3 mapmaking anyway, I have move to programming something myself. Warcraft is surely dead! Newcomers cant offer much, since they are not experienced enough. You can close the threat if you want, moderators.

 

[RED BARON]

I agree with you there - Closing this Thread would serve an excellent purpose since it appears to have been mostly about you not wanting to be part of the Wc3 modding world. I agree it has slowed down, but not that it is dead - and besides its also the people and the place that keeps one coming back. Not purely the modding part.

But good luck making your own game - Just remember to take a good look a the graphics or maybe since you mention programming: Hire an artist

 

[sonofjay]

You mean this one? Well, I suppose its not that simple for melee with only 1 way of strategy... Sorry that I commented only on this map badly. Anyone disagreeing is usually your friend who doesnt wish to get you mad on him. I heard you had problems with the temper too.

I am done with serious wc3 mapmaking anyway, I have move to programming something myself. Warcraft is surely dead! Newcomers cant offer much, since they are not experienced enough. You can close the threat if you want, moderators.

Apology accepted. But I do hope you get what I and the other users here trying to tell you, you'll need it on the bigger world of 'game industry'. Good luck.