Nation Creation [Strategy]

[WindexGlow]

Nation Creation

Game Style: Strategy [Village builder, Castle Builder, Medieval Builder]
Number Of Players: 2-12
Map Size: Epic

Choose from 5 different races (full version will have 10-15 races) each with their own weaknesses and strengths. Defeat your enemies by many different strategies, from ground attacks using massive armies, to naval and air battles with destructive ships and elegant airships.

Human: Your standard, easy to understand, spam able race. While lacking any magic style attack, they can attack and defend easily against a broad range of enemies. It has a powerful battle caption, supplying units nearby with increased speed and life regen.

Naga: A unique race, the naga can swim and build in the ocean, allowing them to be safe from early rushes by other races. Though building in the sea is also a hazard, for it promotes enemy navy and air strikes, and with no sea defenses for the naga, the naga must defeat these threats with the same unit as the threat. While moving slower than other races, the naga have powerful warriors and tanks. It also has a unique research, Sacrifice. Sacrifice requires you to sacrifice 6o of your fighting able units to reach the next upgrade level, allowing more units to be trained.

Spirit: The spirit is an attack fast, die fast style of race. Their incredible attack comes with their low life, making battles against the spirit race quick, and difficult to determine their outcome. With low day vision and no life regen, the spirit race is easy to defeat during the day, but at night they have increased night vision and life regen.

Nature: The nature race is a difficult race to play. Almost all but one of their units is not range, making air attacks against these a common strategy. It’s only ranged unit, the Cavern Lizard, has an amazing 5k life and large defense, though slow attack and movement, along with it’s massive size makes it difficult for tight corridor fighting and retreating. It’s most expensive unit, a costly $340 brown bear, strikes most of it’s foes down with one strike of it’s paw.

Rogue: Created for entering or entering enemies bases, many of the rogue races units have the ability to teleport a short distance, allowing them to quickly enter the enemies bases. The rogue race also has an Explosives Bomber, a suicidal unit designed for destroying the enemies buildings suddenly and with little warning.

Completed Races:
Human
Naga
Spirit
Rogue
Nature

Expected Races:
Dwarves
Blood Elves
Forest Elves
Forest Trolls
Mountain Ogres
Demon
Undead
Plains Centaurs
Gnolls
Spider/insect
Fulbolg
Golems

 

[WindexGlow]

This post will be used for pictures along with version info and senseless info. While I understand we aren't allowed to double post here, this post is for splinting the information my post, making it easier for me to edit.

 

[Blackveiled]

I'll look forward to trying it sometime today or tomorrow. Sounds pretty fun

 

[WindexGlow]

Made new information. When new terrain is done there will be new pics.

Current expected change log for upcoming versions:
-remove ally wait time
-let nature build deer
-reduce anti-aircraft cannon on ships
To-do list for later versions
-Check naga sacred guard (possible underbalence)
-Check nature lizard (possible overbalance)
-Check cavern pathing (certain units can't get in/out)
-Decrease airship speed
-add pause to units that are unloaded from an air transport (1-2 seconds)
-prettyify terrain
-re-do income (more efficient, possibly will remove bug)
-Run some trigger tests to see if any cause bugs (players receiving more income than they're supposed to)
-remove capital battleship from neutral navy shops, allow it only to be built in mercenary
-increase cost of mercenary greatly, decrease time for mercenary greatly
-add magic attack mercenary
-add new/redo startup information
-finish to-do list

 

[Shadow_Fox]

Played this w/ you before on BNET, i find this map highly entertaining, a bit slow paced though, recommend this map to people.

 

[WindexGlow]

Do you remember what version (or what races there were in the game)
The recent versions have received a major speed boost, along with the host being able to decide income time (30 seconds, 25 seconds, 20 seconds, it makes a big difference)
Ty for the nice words for the game though.

 

[Chaos Overlord]

Alright I played this on B.net also. It is a cool game and a lot better than Village Builder, so please don't compare it. In Village Builder, you just mass huys, there is not really that much strategy, but in this, you have to pick between units depending on what job you want to get done. I was the Naga and had a big base taht was uber pwnage because he could not get into it. Since he was the Rouge he could have been smart and just got guys who blinked, but that was a level above his gameplay strat. The races are unique making them fun to play as and against, and the game itself is pretty balanced. If you enjoy any type of strategy or even just big battles, you have to give this game a try. I give it an A!!! Ok... heres some pics of my base. Not sure why I took them but I did.
http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/6885/wc3scrnshot052807221110uh4.jpg
http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/787/wc3scrnshot052807221113kn0.jpg
http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/7703/wc3scrnshot052807221115ft8.jpg

Haha inpenetrable Naga bases rule!

 

[WindexGlow]

The enemy can also build zeppelins, which can easily (and quite quickly) put their entire forces into your base if the zeppelins make it past your archer towers/any range.

Or he could have bought a siege ship, and took out your towers (his ship would need to be covered by some sort of anti-air and anti-ship, probably placed near an island to let your ground forces help out alittle)

A player that spent less in his defenses might have been able to defeat you, but thanks for the very nice words.

 

[Chaos Overlord]

He had no defenses. I asked him where his base was because I had to go and he had no walls or anything. He was also right next to a port so I could have raided him and pwned him so bad, but I didn't. =( You and I got to play sometime. And I do have some fire throwers in there somehwere..... i also realized that I had no air defense so I started to get some.....

 

[WindexGlow]

Air units die pretty quickly actually, most ranged units can take them down (they make defending a forest fun, the trees block units vision so much they can't see where the gun platforms are) I don't mean that an aircraft VS any range unit will die from the ranged unit, it means Cost for effectiveness, aircraft rank pretty low.

I (sadly) host this so much for my friends that it can get alittle tedious to host this 3 times a day (still fun) so I rarely host it anymore (1 every 2-3 days, sometimes I rematch after that game)
You can add me (windexglow@azeroth) and if you see me on just ask me to host it. New version will be up in a few days (just a minor bug fix) and after that will be a version with a new race (takes around a week to make an entirely new race)

If you have any suggestions or complaints, tell me them (I really need those)

 

[Chaos Overlord]

What race are you workin gon right now? If I may make a suggestion, you may want to do the Centaurs. IDK why, they just sound fun to play as. Im going to add you to friends now. Oh, when I played on eof the people said he really liked the whole Mercenary thing. The contracts and teh bundles, although I think that they build a bit slow.

 

[WindexGlow]

I haven't decided yet on what race to do. The forest trolls might be fun to do, though I don't know what area they would excel in (possibly alot of high cost units)
Mercenary will cost alot more in the next version, but will have their build time greatly reduced. This will make them useful in times of emergency and you have alot of money.

 

[WindexGlow]

New Version Up: Beta 2.7
Don't expect too much with this version, just several bug fixes and you can't buy the most powerful ship at neutral shipyards anymore (you must build a mercenary shipyard)
Mercenaries cost 3x more, but build in less than a minute.


Next version will have
-a new race, Forest Trolls [most units will have high cost]
-sacrifice is fucking bugged (Again)
- -income is old and displays old information (String)
-increase shore frigate attack power
-check sea horses for balance issues
-reduce sacred guard collision
-increase sea horse collision

 

[Shadow_Fox]

Do you remember what version?

I believe it was version 2.2, there were naga, human, spirit, undead, and rogues. (sorry slow response forgot about this thread). Gonna try out the new version ASAP.

 

[WindexGlow]

Hope you enjoy it. New version (one with forest trolls) is coming along slower than ever (I could probably finish it in a few hours (the balancing part) but messenger slows down work so much..XD)

 

[Captain Griffen]

10-15 races?

- Not enough models (imports will run out quickly space wise).
- No way they'll be balanced.

 

[Chaos Overlord]

Well I imagine after a lot of work, they could someday be balanced. And also, there are no customs if I remember right. Everything is in-game.

 

[WindexGlow]

10-15 races?

- Not enough models (imports will run out quickly space wise).
- No way they'll be balanced.

There is an expected 10-15 races.

- Not enough models (imports will run out quickly space wise).

It's called using creativity. I created a new race I have never seen in a builder style game, spirit race. There have been undead/demon races, but I have yet to see one spirit race.
Using custom colors, abilities, sizes, speed, ect; can make 2 models of the same unit seem completely different.

- No way they'll be balanced.

Play the game before you judge that part. Units are balanced all in the same way, by testing them via cost against units.
For example.
Footman: $40
Brown Bear: $340 (the most expensive unit so far)
2 bears VS 17 footman (Each side has a total value of $680)
I than make 20 different groups of those units.
XX
ooooooooo
oooooooo
X = Bears
O = Footman

I make that group (it's separated by more space though) 20 different times, far enough that they will never influence each other. I than take a tally on the win/losses. In order for me to consider the unit is balance, they must have an AVERAGE 10 GROUP WINS. I test those 20 groups around 5 times when I have got it balance enough that it will have a balance of 10 wins/losses.
Though this method is very slightly flawed (it's more of a slope style of balance, the higher the cost the better the unit is for it's cost.) but this slight flaw effects all units, so it might not be considered a flaw. I make a few self-mistakes when balancing unit, but new versions fix that problem.

So try the game, any race can beat you, and you can beat any race. Read the attack/defense tool tips though, there are custom attack values in the game. Small armor is very common in the game, while large armor is more rare. (ogres/golems will have alot of large style of armor)

 

[Shadow_Fox]

Played the newer version, nothing impressive of course, keep working man the maps pretty fun (though it can get boring sometimes because of the map size...)
And before criticize possible balance issues, let us see how it goes out eh?

 

[WindexGlow]

Well if you have any problems with the balance, please tell me.
It's my first map, so the core of the game isn't too complex (build an army and kill opponents, nothing complex in the triggers)
Any suggestions? Complaints? Bugs? ect? (complaints/suggestions are really needed)

 

[Blackveiled]

Naga suck

Nagas suck. Lets just say that.



The Coral Fish guys are easily massed..but it takes about 150 of them to kill a giant worm.

Naga need to be stronger.


Nature is overpowered.



They are just about impossible to kill lol...it doesnt matter moneywise if its balanced, because thats only ONE single unit.

 

[Captain Griffen]

Difficulty in balancing races is roughly equal to n^2, due to the way they interact.

So, let's take WC3 melee. Not really balanced, is it? Not too shabby, but not quite SC's balance.

4^2 = 16

10^2 = 100
15 ^ 2 = 225

So, balancing the races will be, roughly, 6 to 14 times harder than WC3 melee.

WC3 melee isn't really balanced, and they have a commercial team of top notch developers.

Now, you REALLY think you can balance it? Be my guest. Or you could do the old cop out of making all of the races identicle and only changing them cosmetically. That just sucks though, and you may as well focus on making a few good races.

 

[WindexGlow]

So far, I've only had a few problems with balance, which I was able to fix quickly enough. I host this many times on battle.net, and I have lost to all races, and I have beaten almost all races. I can mass a single unit, and I will either lose battles or win battles, depending on what I'm facing (if they have units that take less damage from my attacks, and deal more to my units, I will lose horribly.)

The biggest problem right now: Collision size. Bigger units need more collision, and some small units need less of it. (I'm using custom collision sizes already)
And I refuse to copy units/stats from other races and rename them.

 

[WindexGlow]

bump

 

[Gausslander]

Yeah, Captain Griffen it's nice to actually test the map and then talk about that before you make something up about not being able to balance 15 races, google Warlords Battlecry 3, a very balanced game with 16 races...
By the way, I have played this before and have to say, it's good.

 

[WindexGlow]

Do you have any suggestions for the game? Complaints?
Right now I'm re-doing the terrain, I'll take a picture of it and host it here.

Is a basic outline of what I'm thinking of doing. Obviously islands aren't decided yet.

Things in parentheses ( ) are referring to the layout of the original (and current) nation creation terrain, not the new terrain I am working on.

Nagas suck. Lets just say that.



The Coral Fish guys are easily massed..but it takes about 150 of them to kill a giant worm.

Naga need to be stronger.


Nature is overpowered.



They are just about impossible to kill lol...it doesnt matter moneywise if its balanced, because thats only ONE single unit.

I didn't know this one was postedXD

Idiots like you are one of the reasons why I hate hosting this game. Seriously.

'Oh hey i tihnk my 7.5 fucking frog that isnt made for combat shoudl be able to kill a $240 worm, yup thats good logic here'
Next version will include information specifically for idiots like you. The coral frog should only be used for sacrifice, not for combat.

 

[WindexGlow]

Bump of the day.
Any suggestions for races? Upgrades? Units?
Complaints?

 

[WindexGlow]

the once in awhile bump.

 

[Gravedigger]

Do you have any suggestions for the game? Complaints?
Right now I'm re-doing the terrain, I'll take a picture of it and host it here.

Is a basic outline of what I'm thinking of doing. Obviously islands aren't decided yet.

Things in parentheses ( ) are referring to the layout of the original (and current) nation creation terrain, not the new terrain I am working on.



I didn't know this one was postedXD

Idiots like you are one of the reasons why I hate hosting this game. Seriously.

'Oh hey i tihnk my 7.5 fucking frog that isnt made for combat shoudl be able to kill a $240 worm, yup thats good logic here'
Next version will include information specifically for idiots like you. The coral frog should only be used for sacrifice, not for combat.

Ya idiots like him can be annoying, but they'll never stop complaining, and posts like these just mean he's gonna rate your map a 1 to try to keep other people from playing it. Also, this post makes you sound like the idiot and more people likely to complain. Regarding the actual map, doesn't sound like anything special, but I guess I'll try it.

 

[WindexGlow]

There isn't really anything special about it, but it has better thought out races than other village-builder style games. Races are generally pretty balanced, and there's a wide range of units to choose from if you use mercenary.