[Help] looking for help on Open Source Warcraft 2 Source port

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Hello!
I will keep it quick and simple as this part is some older news now
Last year the Source code for Warcraft 2's PS1 port was discovered in a collection of dumped Climax studios disks that was uploaded online.
I was directed to the forum here and to make an account by the user StormKnight to ask around if anyone was interested in starting up this project!
what i am hoping to get done is a Open Source Reimplimentation of Warcraft 2 designed for Modern platforms and Moddability with a Heavy focus on implimenting Quality of life optional features. (TLDR Think OpenRA/GZdoom for Warcraft 2)
considering from someone who downloaded the source code and looked into it for me, it appears the code effectively runs the original Warcraft 2 engine, but butchered and chopped down into working on PS1 (apparently parts of the original PC code that was commented out is still present so that could be of help!)

Want to also make the disclaimer that i am NO coder whatsoever,
- "Did you really show up asking for help when you can't code?" Yeah pretty much, the best way to acquire something is to ask politely!
I hope that you may Please Consider contacting me and perhaps we can give this classic game the love it deserves!
 

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pyf

pyf

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[...] what i am hoping to get done is a Open Source Reimplimentation of Warcraft 2 designed for Modern platforms and Moddability with a Heavy focus on implimenting Quality of life optional features. (TLDR Think OpenRA/GZdoom for Warcraft 2) [...]
Hmm... Feels more like DevilutionX to me, for legal reasons.

Please do not forget that both EA and ID Software willingly released the C&C / RA / Doom / Doom 2 source code online.
 

pyf

pyf

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Wargus is an attempt to do that, but it uses the Stratagus Engine instead.


Blizzard/GOG also did their own modifications to D1, WC1 and WC2:BNE, but they are closed source afaik.

"[...] players who purchase Warcraft II through GOG.COM will get two versions: one that’s been updated with support for high-resolution displays and multiplayer via LAN connections; and a period-appropriate classic version that includes the original SVGA graphics, and matchmaking through the classic version of the Battle.net online-gaming service. [...]

The GOG.COM rereleases of Warcraft: Orcs & Humans and Warcraft II Battle.net Edition represent the games in their original forms, with versions that include HD resolution support, compatibility with today’s PC operating systems, and quality-of-life additions. [...]

The GOG-enhanced version offers several quality of life additions, including minor audio fixes, upscaling support for resolution and refresh rate control, and compatibility fixes. Please note that these versions cannot connect to classic Battle.net and only support multiplayer via LAN and P2P connection. [...]

Warcraft: Orcs & Humans and Warcraft II Battle.net Edition are currently available for sale or download only on GOG.COM. [...]"
 
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i looked into Wargus and its very not good IMO.
its a commendable effort but its lacking in a lot of areas in terms of QOL, has a VERY awkward installation method and overall is built entirely from asssumptions and scratch.
i really would want to make something that is built off of the original engine that not only is accurate but also has so many quality modern day RTS features it feels brand new. thats the main reason i made this account and the thread. hope interest continues to be drummed up!
 

pyf

pyf

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i looked into Wargus and its very not good IMO.
its a commendable effort but its lacking in a lot of areas in terms of QOL, has a VERY awkward installation method and overall is built entirely from asssumptions and scratch. [...]
Quoting the main developer timfel (with emphasis added in bold), "Wargus is really just a mod for Stratagus (and it cannot be any other way already for legal reasons)".

I suppose you had a look at the source code of the latest version? (v3.0.0 as of this writing)
The original WC2 assets can not be used by Wargus without them being converted first
Contributions to Wargus / Stratagus are always welcome.
 
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i looked into Wargus and its very not good IMO.
its a commendable effort but its lacking in a lot of areas in terms of QOL, has a VERY awkward installation method and overall is built entirely from asssumptions and scratch.
i really would want to make something that is built off of the original engine that not only is accurate but also has so many quality modern day RTS features it feels brand new. thats the main reason i made this account and the thread. hope interest continues to be drummed up!

* VERY awkward installation
How so? It's always the same. You have to have the original game and the port will get the assets from it in the installation. I had no issues with it.

* lacking in a lot of areas in terms of QOL,
There is always areas that can be improved. It's an open source project, so, since you are a developer, you theoretically can improve it as you like.
That said, Wargus (Stratagus) have quite alot of QOL features. I found out that there are none missing on my playthough (that i frequently use), specially compared to starcraft 1.

Really, there is no reason (except because you can) to create another open source engine instead of improving stratagus/wargus.
 
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pyf

pyf

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[...] Really, there is no reason (except because you can) to create another open source engine instead of improving stratagus/wargus.
Being able to load/run the assets of the MS-DOS version without the need for any prior data conversion (minus for the optional CD audio tracks obviously) would be a imho very nice enhancement. Also, being able to use WarMaker as-is would also be a desirable feature. This can be achieved because people can learn from the source code and therefore simulate/recreate some of its inner workings, as long as their own programing does not infringe any copyright (including the ones of the third-party middleware the game also uses).
...
... but if this were to ever happen, then it really, really should be as a fork of Wargus, because Blizzard/RAD may not approve of any such enhancements.
 
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Being able to load/run the assets of the MS-DOS version without the need for any prior data conversion (minus for the optional CD audio tracks obviously) would be a imho very nice enhancement. Also, being able to use WarMaker as-is would also be a desirable feature. This can be achieved because people can learn from the source code and therefore simulate/recreate some of its inner workings, as long as their own programing does not infringe any copyright (including the ones of the third-party middleware the game also uses).
...
... but if this were to ever happen, then it really, really should be as a fork of Wargus, because Blizzard/RAD may not approve of any such enhancements.

My opinion is that having the assets converted to modern versions (ogg for sounds/music, png for images, webp for videos and lua for the logic) was the best move and the right one, instead of reading directly from closed sourced, binary files. This way you can easily edit them, understand how it's working and create custom campaigns and even games. As an example, i am currently playing wargus with a remastered wc2 soundtrack and war3 unit sounds, for instance.
But sure, as an option, reading directly from the data files is always an welcome feature.

As for WarMaker, i din't know it existed. Thanks for sharing. Note that WarMaker is only for windows and is a closed source application. It's hard to understand how it's working. But if WarMaker generates a standard wc2 map, it shouldn't be hard, with the tools wargus already uses for converting the original maps and campaigns, to also generate maps created by that application.
 

pyf

pyf

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My opinion is that having the assets converted to modern versions (ogg for sounds/music, png for images, webp for videos and lua for the logic) was the best move and the right one, instead of reading directly from closed sourced, binary files. This way you can easily edit them, understand how it's working and create custom campaigns and even games. As an example, i am currently playing wargus with a remastered wc2 soundtrack and war3 unit sounds, for instance.
But sure, as an option, reading directly from the data files is always an welcome feature.
The problem with these converted base assets is, they use more HDD space than the original assets from the container files of the MS-DOS version. Ideally, a modern source port could/should be able to load the original container files, without any modification required. This is what the Doom / Quake / Build Engine source ports do, for example.

ofc, this does not prevent any extra modifications to be loaded afterwards, either as loose files with the required directory structure so they are loaded, or as extra container files (PWADs etc.)

As for WarMaker, i din't know it existed. Thanks for sharing. Note that WarMaker is only for windows and is a closed source application. It's hard to understand how it's working. But if WarMaker generates a standard wc2 map, it shouldn't be hard, with the tools wargus already uses for converting the original maps and campaigns, to also generate maps created by that application.
You're welcome.
Yep unfortunately it is closed source. [Warcraft gaming] life sucks sometimes.
:wink:

It is not difficult to use. Just blindly hit the 'Generate' button several times, and move the many sliders to get the grip.
As a prerequisite, I suggest going to Options/Display options, and from there unselect 'Show splash screen on startup', select 'Show large mini-map', and then go to File/Save settings as default, and then quit and restart WarMaker. It is better that way imho.

WarMaker was designed to have some level of integration with a properly installed version of WC2 iirc. Ideally, a modern third-party source port would have to be able to load PUD files, in order for modern WC2 gamers to benefit from the ease of use and QoL options WarMaker offers.
 
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The problem with these converted base assets is, they use more HDD space than the original assets from the container files of the MS-DOS version. Ideally, a modern source port could/should be able to load the original container files, without any modification required. This is what the Doom / Quake / Build Engine source ports do, for example.

In this age of multiple terabytes disks, where a modern game can take easily 60 GB, i don't see that as a problem :)

It indeed takes less space reading directly from the original files and it's also less painful to install if you want an out of the box solution. But if you want to mod it, you will need additional tools to do it. Exactly the tools used by wargus on the install/extraction. You need an asset editor, sound editor, unpacker, and so on. You also end up needing a modern scripting language and a modern game engine capable of understanding modern file formats (mp3, ogg, png, dds, ...). The engine should also understand that those files should have precedence over the old ones, so some kind of mapping must be in place. Also, since you have to be 100% compatible with the original game, the engine tends to limit you a little bit in how you can do things. You have gzdoom as an example. To overcome modding limitations and to extend what you can do with doom, the gzdoom team created additional features, gzdoom specific. wads/mods implementing this features will not work with other engines.

So, to sum up, these are two different approaches and both equally valid.
 
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