[Help] looking for help on Open Source Warcraft 2 Source port

[aog@hive]

Hello!
I will keep it quick and simple as this part is some older news now
Last year the Source code for Warcraft 2's PS1 port was discovered in a collection of dumped Climax studios disks that was uploaded online.
I was directed to the forum here and to make an account by the user StormKnight to ask around if anyone was interested in starting up this project!
what i am hoping to get done is a Open Source Reimplimentation of Warcraft 2 designed for Modern platforms and Moddability with a Heavy focus on implimenting Quality of life optional features. (TLDR Think OpenRA/GZdoom for Warcraft 2)
considering from someone who downloaded the source code and looked into it for me, it appears the code effectively runs the original Warcraft 2 engine, but butchered and chopped down into working on PS1 (apparently parts of the original PC code that was commented out is still present so that could be of help!)

Want to also make the disclaimer that i am NO coder whatsoever,
- "Did you really show up asking for help when you can't code?" Yeah pretty much, the best way to acquire something is to ask politely!
I hope that you may Please Consider contacting me and perhaps we can give this classic game the love it deserves!

 

[pyf]

[...] what i am hoping to get done is a Open Source Reimplimentation of Warcraft 2 designed for Modern platforms and Moddability with a Heavy focus on implimenting Quality of life optional features. (TLDR Think OpenRA/GZdoom for Warcraft 2) [...]

Hmm... Feels more like DevilutionX to me, for legal reasons.

Please do not forget that both EA and ID Software willingly released the C&C / RA / Doom / Doom 2 source code online.

 

[aog@hive]

Devilutionx is a fair comparison.
I really want war2 to be brought into the modern day quality of life wise, and the best way to get what you want is to ask nicely.

 

[pyf]

Wargus is an attempt to do that, but it uses the Stratagus Engine instead.


Blizzard/GOG also did their own modifications to D1, WC1 and WC2:BNE, but they are closed source afaik.

Warcraft: Orcs & Humans and Warcraft II Battle.net Edition Now Available on GOG.COM

In anticipation of the upcoming 25th anniversary of Warcraft, we’ve partnered with GOG.COM to rerelease the classics that started it all—Warcraft: Orcs &#38 Humans and Warcraft II Battle.net Edition.

news.blizzard.com

"[...] players who purchase Warcraft II through GOG.COM will get two versions: one that’s been updated with support for high-resolution displays and multiplayer via LAN connections; and a period-appropriate classic version that includes the original SVGA graphics, and matchmaking through the classic version of the Battle.net online-gaming service. [...]

The GOG.COM rereleases of Warcraft: Orcs & Humans and Warcraft II Battle.net Edition represent the games in their original forms, with versions that include HD resolution support, compatibility with today’s PC operating systems, and quality-of-life additions. [...]

The GOG-enhanced version offers several quality of life additions, including minor audio fixes, upscaling support for resolution and refresh rate control, and compatibility fixes. Please note that these versions cannot connect to classic Battle.net and only support multiplayer via LAN and P2P connection. [...]

Warcraft: Orcs & Humans and Warcraft II Battle.net Edition are currently available for sale or download only on GOG.COM. [...]"

 

[aog@hive]

i looked into Wargus and its very not good IMO.
its a commendable effort but its lacking in a lot of areas in terms of QOL, has a VERY awkward installation method and overall is built entirely from asssumptions and scratch.
i really would want to make something that is built off of the original engine that not only is accurate but also has so many quality modern day RTS features it feels brand new. thats the main reason i made this account and the thread. hope interest continues to be drummed up!

 

[pyf]

i looked into Wargus and its very not good IMO.
its a commendable effort but its lacking in a lot of areas in terms of QOL, has a VERY awkward installation method and overall is built entirely from asssumptions and scratch. [...]

Quoting the main developer timfel (with emphasis added in bold), "Wargus is really just a mod for Stratagus (and it cannot be any other way already for legal reasons)".

I suppose you had a look at the source code of the latest version? (v3.0.0 as of this writing)
The original WC2 assets can not be used by Wargus without them being converted first
Contributions to Wargus / Stratagus are always welcome.

 

[pahonon668]

i looked into Wargus and its very not good IMO.
its a commendable effort but its lacking in a lot of areas in terms of QOL, has a VERY awkward installation method and overall is built entirely from asssumptions and scratch.
i really would want to make something that is built off of the original engine that not only is accurate but also has so many quality modern day RTS features it feels brand new. thats the main reason i made this account and the thread. hope interest continues to be drummed up!

* VERY awkward installation
How so? It's always the same. You have to have the original game and the port will get the assets from it in the installation. I had no issues with it.

* lacking in a lot of areas in terms of QOL,
There is always areas that can be improved. It's an open source project, so, since you are a developer, you theoretically can improve it as you like.
That said, Wargus (Stratagus) have quite alot of QOL features. I found out that there are none missing on my playthough (that i frequently use), specially compared to starcraft 1.

Really, there is no reason (except because you can) to create another open source engine instead of improving stratagus/wargus.

 

[pyf]

[...] Really, there is no reason (except because you can) to create another open source engine instead of improving stratagus/wargus.

Being able to load/run the assets of the MS-DOS version without the need for any prior data conversion (minus for the optional CD audio tracks obviously) would be a imho very nice enhancement. Also, being able to use WarMaker as-is would also be a desirable feature. This can be achieved because people can learn from the source code and therefore simulate/recreate some of its inner workings, as long as their own programing does not infringe any copyright (including the ones of the third-party middleware the game also uses).
...
... but if this were to ever happen, then it really, really should be as a fork of Wargus, because Blizzard/RAD may not approve of any such enhancements.

 

[pahonon668]

Being able to load/run the assets of the MS-DOS version without the need for any prior data conversion (minus for the optional CD audio tracks obviously) would be a imho very nice enhancement. Also, being able to use WarMaker as-is would also be a desirable feature. This can be achieved because people can learn from the source code and therefore simulate/recreate some of its inner workings, as long as their own programing does not infringe any copyright (including the ones of the third-party middleware the game also uses).
...
... but if this were to ever happen, then it really, really should be as a fork of Wargus, because Blizzard/RAD may not approve of any such enhancements.

My opinion is that having the assets converted to modern versions (ogg for sounds/music, png for images, webp for videos and lua for the logic) was the best move and the right one, instead of reading directly from closed sourced, binary files. This way you can easily edit them, understand how it's working and create custom campaigns and even games. As an example, i am currently playing wargus with a remastered wc2 soundtrack and war3 unit sounds, for instance.
But sure, as an option, reading directly from the data files is always an welcome feature.

As for WarMaker, i din't know it existed. Thanks for sharing. Note that WarMaker is only for windows and is a closed source application. It's hard to understand how it's working. But if WarMaker generates a standard wc2 map, it shouldn't be hard, with the tools wargus already uses for converting the original maps and campaigns, to also generate maps created by that application.

 

[pyf]

My opinion is that having the assets converted to modern versions (ogg for sounds/music, png for images, webp for videos and lua for the logic) was the best move and the right one, instead of reading directly from closed sourced, binary files. This way you can easily edit them, understand how it's working and create custom campaigns and even games. As an example, i am currently playing wargus with a remastered wc2 soundtrack and war3 unit sounds, for instance.
But sure, as an option, reading directly from the data files is always an welcome feature.

The problem with these converted base assets is, they use more HDD space than the original assets from the container files of the MS-DOS version. Ideally, a modern source port could/should be able to load the original container files, without any modification required. This is what the Doom / Quake / Build Engine source ports do, for example.

ofc, this does not prevent any extra modifications to be loaded afterwards, either as loose files with the required directory structure so they are loaded, or as extra container files (PWADs etc.)

As for WarMaker, i din't know it existed. Thanks for sharing. Note that WarMaker is only for windows and is a closed source application. It's hard to understand how it's working. But if WarMaker generates a standard wc2 map, it shouldn't be hard, with the tools wargus already uses for converting the original maps and campaigns, to also generate maps created by that application.

You're welcome.
Yep unfortunately it is closed source. [Warcraft gaming] life sucks sometimes.


It is not difficult to use. Just blindly hit the 'Generate' button several times, and move the many sliders to get the grip.
As a prerequisite, I suggest going to Options/Display options, and from there unselect 'Show splash screen on startup', select 'Show large mini-map', and then go to File/Save settings as default, and then quit and restart WarMaker. It is better that way imho.

WarMaker was designed to have some level of integration with a properly installed version of WC2 iirc. Ideally, a modern third-party source port would have to be able to load PUD files, in order for modern WC2 gamers to benefit from the ease of use and QoL options WarMaker offers.

 

[pahonon668]

The problem with these converted base assets is, they use more HDD space than the original assets from the container files of the MS-DOS version. Ideally, a modern source port could/should be able to load the original container files, without any modification required. This is what the Doom / Quake / Build Engine source ports do, for example.

In this age of multiple terabytes disks, where a modern game can take easily 60 GB, i don't see that as a problem

It indeed takes less space reading directly from the original files and it's also less painful to install if you want an out of the box solution. But if you want to mod it, you will need additional tools to do it. Exactly the tools used by wargus on the install/extraction. You need an asset editor, sound editor, unpacker, and so on. You also end up needing a modern scripting language and a modern game engine capable of understanding modern file formats (mp3, ogg, png, dds, ...). The engine should also understand that those files should have precedence over the old ones, so some kind of mapping must be in place. Also, since you have to be 100% compatible with the original game, the engine tends to limit you a little bit in how you can do things. You have gzdoom as an example. To overcome modding limitations and to extend what you can do with doom, the gzdoom team created additional features, gzdoom specific. wads/mods implementing this features will not work with other engines.

So, to sum up, these are two different approaches and both equally valid.

 

[pyf]

My opinion is that having the assets converted to modern versions (ogg for sounds/music, png for images, webp for videos and lua for the logic) was the best move and the right one, instead of reading directly from closed sourced, binary files. This way you can easily edit them, understand how it's working and create custom campaigns and even games. As an example, i am currently playing wargus with a remastered wc2 soundtrack and war3 unit sounds, for instance.
But sure, as an option, reading directly from the data files is always an welcome feature.

It is more straightforward and maybe less error prone imho.

One thing I had forgotten about some of the assets of the MS-DOS version is how low quality they are by today's standards. For example, the opening screen was iirc a 320x200 image. Fortunately, the Battle.net edition had fixed this one with a higher resolution image, but unfortunately even in this newer edition some (most?) of the fullscreen images had not been replaced/updated as well, and they look poor on modern monitors (victory/defeat screens, urgh!). Floyd-Steinberg diffusion looked okay in the early 2000s on a CRT monitor, but nowadays all the stray pixels which allowed to simulate color gradients can clearly be seen.

The problem with these converted base assets is, they use more HDD space than the original assets from the container files of the MS-DOS version.

I have just tested the latest version of Wargus by importing the original assets of the MS-DOS version and... I was wrong with v3.0.0. The thing is, the earliest version of the software I had checked was v2.2.4, and that was in... 2009! Looks like a few things have changed in 12 years.

• Original MS-DOS BDP assets (that is, the WAR, CUD and SUD files from the DATA folder): 131 MB (6 files)
• Converted MS-DOS BDP assets for Wargus 3.0.0: 104 MB (after deleting the wargus.exp.data folder, which was only needed for the 3.0.0 converter to find and extract/convert the original BDP container files)

I have not attempted to convert any CD Audio tracks, because the MS-DOS version comes with XMI files as well

i looked into Wargus and its very not good IMO.
its a commendable effort but its lacking in a lot of areas in terms of QOL, has a VERY awkward installation method [...]

* VERY awkward installation
How so? It's always the same. You have to have the original game and the port will get the assets from it in the installation. I had no issues with it.

It seems that Wargus 3.0.0 will not run after converting the assets of ToD only.

Because the 6 container files from the BDP Data folder include (almost all of?) the ToD assets as well, I am guessing only the BDP CD-ROM is required with Wargus (which makes its automatic converter a bit confusing at some point imho).

Even in 1997, it was no secret that the ToD videos/assets were included in the BDP CD-ROM as well. This allowed to play the ToD campaigns with the BDP CD in the CD-ROM drive.

 

[pyf]

i looked into Wargus and its very not good IMO.
its a commendable effort but its lacking in a lot of areas in terms of QOL, has a VERY awkward installation method and overall is built entirely from asssumptions and scratch.
i really would want to make something that is built off of the original engine that not only is accurate but also has so many quality modern day RTS features it feels brand new. [...]

@aog@hive: out of curiosity, what are the QoL features Wargus is currently missing, according to your vision of the game?


For documentation purposes, here is a link to the changelog of the Battle.net Edition, which was released in 1999. Also included are the extra changes found in the 2019 GOG Edition (currently at v4 according to WoWpedia):

Warcraft II: Battle.net Edition patch information

This page is about Warcraft II: Battle.net Edition patch information.

wowpedia.fandom.com

(note: visual and audio differences exist between the MS-DOS and the Windows version, and are not documented in the BNE patch notes)

ofc none of the modifications/remasterings in the BNE version exist in the source code/files of the MS-DOS version.

About that French language support thingie from 2.02 v3, WC2:BNE has been officially localized in French since its original release in 1999. It is a common issue with GOG releases that they are released first as English only (even if the original game was multilingual)