1. Are you planning to upload your awesome map to Hive? Please review the rules here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Updated Resource Submission Rules: All model & skin resource submissions must now include an in-game screenshot. This is to help speed up the moderation process and to show how the model and/or texture looks like from the in-game camera.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. DID YOU KNOW - That you can unlock new rank icons by posting on the forums or winning contests? Click here to customize your rank or read our User Rank Policy to see a list of ranks that you can unlock. Have you won a contest and still haven't received your rank award? Then please contact the administration.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. The reforging of the races is complete. Come see the 14th Techtree Contest Results.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. It's time to choose your horse in the race - the 32nd Modeling Contest Poll is up!
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Check out the Staff job openings thread.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
60,000 passwords have been reset on July 8, 2019. If you cannot login, read this.

Logging Camp

Submitted by Knecht
This bundle is marked as approved. It works and satisfies the submission rules.
Story
We need more lumber. Get yourself some shredders and start chopping.

Map Specifics
[​IMG] Players 2
[​IMG] Creep Camps 6 16 2
[​IMG] Neutral Buildings 5
[​IMG] Gold Mines 6



Tactics
(This might not be relevant due to update)
The key aspect of this map are the tree bridges. Think thoroughly when you want to use them, as once the trees are fell, the enemy can use them as well. Many creep camps can be connected with some siege on tree action, this way you could get faster to the other camp.
Each player has the option between two natural expos. The upper half of the maps has more chokepoints and offers a goblin lab while the other half of the map has more open spaces, a Loarderon Fall merc camp and a health fountain. You can use zeppelins to sneak up on the enemy base from the trees. That is, if you manage to cut your way through them first.

How to use the trees
Don't try to send your workers, you'll need something more destructive to fell these trees. Get some of those siege weapons and aim at the runes. It might take a hit or two but soon you'll be able to use it as a bridge.

Change Log

[2018-09-22]-Version 1.0 - Uploaded
[2019-10-02]-Version 1.1 - Sadly, removed some tree bridges, fixed item drops and some creeps, added Health fountain instead of Marketplace, should be more standard now.


Authors Notes
This map was made for the second melee mapping contest. It features the forgotten tree bridges, which were possibly a scrapped concept by blizz. Shoutouts to @W3Sour @mafe and @Ragnaros17
Previews
Contents

Logging Camp (Map)

Reviews
deepstrasz
Approved based on reviews here: Melee Mapping Contest #2 - Results
  1. JaleVeliki

    JaleVeliki

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2018
    Messages:
    135
    Resources:
    4
    Maps:
    4
    Resources:
    4
    such interesting concept with the trees.
     
  2. WolfFarkas

    WolfFarkas

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,180
    Resources:
    46
    Maps:
    46
    Resources:
    46
    All this time I used the editor, and I didn´t knew those tree bridges existed till I saw your map, they are very interesting
     
  3. W3Sour

    W3Sour

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2018
    Messages:
    49
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Nice use of spacing, creeps are well done, symmetry and balance is all good.

    Atmosphere and log-inspired theme is cool and unique, the big tree feature to create the bridge is unique, and once players get word of it, it should be fine, in terms of playability.

    You know most of my thoughts anyway on the map, it's very good!! :D as Ragnaros would say
     
  4. Diegoit

    Diegoit

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2017
    Messages:
    1,267
    Resources:
    1
    Models:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    What does these shops sell?
     
  5. Veldris

    Veldris

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2018
    Messages:
    363
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Amazing Environment and i like the idea of the Log 10/10
     
  6. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Messages:
    13,655
    Resources:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    1
  7. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Messages:
    13,655
    Resources:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    knechtcontest.png

    Don't delete your message and this contest is long overdue.

    EDIT: Oh, so he added it for the current one as well. It's no that important, since it's not a new map and it was already used in a previous contest, so, stressing it out with that note isn't really necessary.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
  8. Leo-speo

    Leo-speo

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2019
    Messages:
    15
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    bridges might have some balance issues since nightelf can use them at tier 1 and other races on tier 2. but map looks cool!
     
  9. RED BARON

    RED BARON

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    Messages:
    5,194
    Resources:
    43
    Models:
    37
    Icons:
    3
    Packs:
    1
    Skins:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    43
    Ah yea, a good addition to the tournament map pool I say.
     
  10. Deserted

    Deserted

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2017
    Messages:
    122
    Resources:
    2
    Maps:
    2
    Resources:
    2
    Great map that didn't get attaention it deserves.
    Vorpal Blades updrade is said to be required to attack trees. So it might be considered a bug T_T
     
  11. Cigaro

    Cigaro

    Joined:
    May 12, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    Resources:
    13
    Maps:
    13
    Resources:
    13
    I haven't watched any of the games played on this map in the New Horizons Cup as of yet. Also, is 1.1 the current version?

    ===

    What immediately bothered me was the creep spot near the gold mine. If you expand to that position, the creep camp is yours to sack. The enemy can't challenge you when you're taking it because it is practically located in your own base.
    camp.jpg

    There may be a small problem with distances. Both gold mines are a little closer to the starting positions than they would usually be – facilitates taking them with militia. Not sure if it's critical though. What's confusing is that all four of them have got a lvl 13 creep camp. That's okay for the first expansion, but pretty weak for the second one.

    The tree lines at the starting positions are weird. How do you seal that off? I would go for a more conservative tree line there.

    This gold mine creep camp is placed very forward. I haven't tested it but I would worry about them attacking passing armies. And this is not a rare road to use.
    aggro.jpg
    You also can't walk past the fountain but I suppose that's intentional?

    These camps can't attack air:
    aa.jpg aa2.jpg aa3.jpg
    Additionally, the lvl 11 sasquatch camp drops a lvl 3 item instead of a lvl 2 item. Was a unit deleted from that camp?

    NE prefers a tree near / next to the tavern to park a wisp. Perhaps you've intentionally not placed one, but in case you just forgot, this is a reminder.

    The map drops three lvl 2 permanent on each side, that may be one too much.

    I wouldn't leave any empty pockets in the forest, that only leads to zeppelin nonsense.

    ===

    All of these issues seem fixable to me, as the layout itself is not flawed. You've done a great job terrain-wise and with the doodads, it looks very natural. The cliffs are worth mentioning.
     
  12. WolfFarkas

    WolfFarkas

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,180
    Resources:
    46
    Maps:
    46
    Resources:
    46
    1- Jaleveliki deveoped something similar with mercs for main bases, in Vile reef and I heard it was praised by asian players. If you creep that is a good spot for an griphon aviary.
    2- Ruins of Aszhara has a similar expo system, where you can choose, again praised.
    3- open bases play like Twisted meadow maps and versions of twisted meadow. map more big, is logic to have open bases.
    4- low level creeps defending nothing, is aceptable, Beastmaster eagle L3 strategy is very rare and also would be very slow creeping.
    5- not that near is an abuse to NE to resurrect tavern hero. also in open areas is logic to limit NE scouting because is more unfair than build a tower.
     
  13. Cigaro

    Cigaro

    Joined:
    May 12, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    Resources:
    13
    Maps:
    13
    Resources:
    13
    3.
    I believe that's a misunderstanding. I've made two screenshots to show what I mean. The TM tree line is very typical: U-shaped and with the base somewhere on the edge. That's very standard. On Logging Camp, the town center is way out in the open, attackable freely from three sides. That makes it very awkward to place buildings (like barracks) in a row to create a pocket, like one would usually do.
    base-tm.jpg base-lc.jpg

    1. + 2.
    Naturally, if players like it there's no argument against it, but it is a pretty heavy alteration of how the game is played, and that is usually disapproved of by most people. I'm not saying you can't do it, but is there any real evidence that this is what the majority of players actually want? (Counting out the 25 % HU players who would have a bonanza with this feature.)
    Perhaps a poll could give more insight.

    Also, the camp with the ensnare troll and the golem on the second gold mine on Ruins of Aszhara is more annoying to kill than the gnoll/rogue/priest camp on Logging Camp. You don't need to bring your full army to wipe that out, you do it casually on the side and then drop your third town center whenever you like. And after that your three bases will be no further than ~7,500 units apart from each other, which is relatively easy to defend. Your enemy can hardly circumnavigate your army and wreak havoc in another base before you arrive there. For comparison: The two furthest bases would be 11,000 units apart on Melting Valley, 10,000 units on Secret Valley, 9,000 on Terena's Stand.

    bases.jpg

    I understand the idea of allowing a choice between two gold mines, and perhaps one can make that work, but in this example it comes at the cost of massively altered gameplay.
     
  14. WolfFarkas

    WolfFarkas

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,180
    Resources:
    46
    Maps:
    46
    Resources:
    46
    3- yeah now I see your point, didnt get it in first place.

    1) There is quite a lot of evidence: When it comes to a top 5, Ruins of Aszhara is getting in the list of everybody. Because it is one the few maps that didnt stalled in time since created, it gots tons of updates based on players feedback, while many other maps are just gathering dust in the page 10 of the melee category(many mine). And in the 2020 discussion it was pointed that ruins of aszhara offers what the map pool is lacking, maps with 2 early viable expanding options. That map was very used in tournaments, probably ruins of Aszhara is one of the most 1v1 custom maps played that is not in the ladder pool (because is hard to get there or even imposible to me at least)
    and it was very praised in tod townhall meating. I dont think hu players will benefit more because is not realistic to defend 2 expos at the same time.

    about the 7500, 9000, 110000, those distances alone , is incomplete info, because walking distances must be considered by the measure of trees bloking the paths, and path shape, but I have to say numbers alone say nothing is better to see the play

    in fact logging camp was one of the favorites of the new horizon cup ( was used a lot).
    I saw a dreadlord against blademaster play in that map.

    2-5) if you see new horizon cup, they played boat maps, and it was quite nice to see that play, even fun, some players of the player comunity wants a change of how the game is played.

    If you see Tod townhall meeting where it was TOD , Remo, Keito and Hightac, it is explained the new feature that allows players to have a defended griphon aviary.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
  15. Cigaro

    Cigaro

    Joined:
    May 12, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    Resources:
    13
    Maps:
    13
    Resources:
    13
    I think Ruins of Aszhara is more balanced. Regardless of some similarities, these are still two different maps.

    I did count in obstacles of course. And for Ruins of Aszhara it's ~8.500. It almost feels like Ruins of Aszhara is a "light" version of Logging Camp when it comes to the expansion situation. And I personally think that's better because players can do their own thing and don't have to adapt to the map too heavily. Again, that's only my opinion, but it is based on the decade-old impression that most people are just not interested in crass changes.

    That may have been a choice between the devil and the deep blue sea though. Which sounds meaner than I intended it to, cause hands up for the cup, but the alternatives to pick were other custom maps that might have their own flaws. The question remains: Would people prefer Logging Camp over Secret Valley and Echo Isles and all the other classics?
     
  16. WolfFarkas

    WolfFarkas

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,180
    Resources:
    46
    Maps:
    46
    Resources:
    46
    I will respond you on discord because here is already very off topic.