Intelligence related effects

[Karzama]

Hi,

In my map there's loads of items that gives various effects. The idea is that you pick up items to customize your hero and increase their effectiveness.

The problem is that I have about 13 different types of these items (class mods) but only 1 of which grants bonus intelligence. Whereas if you are Strength or Agility based then there's about 3-4 for each (some don't give any attributes) then you have a much easier job.
Basically my situation is that I don't know what effects could go with intelligence other than a bigger mana pool (which is already done) as mana regen seems like it'd be quite useless really in the map, even if it were an aura. Any ideas?

Examples of effects already used

- HP, HP Regen, Movement speed, Attack damage, attack speed, armor, heal on kill, team auras (damage, armor, movement)

 

[Krakenn99]

Maybe mana steal? Kinda like life steal but instead of gaining hp on hits gain mana on spell or hit?

 

[Karzama]

I had thought of using feedback but barely any of the enemies have mana XD That's one that could be written down Any other ideas?

 

[Krakenn99]

I had thought of using feedback but barely any of the enemies have mana XD That's one that could be written down Any other ideas?

Cooltdown reduction could work... even thought I'm not sure if its possible to do :/

 

[Karzama]

Yeah that'd be a great one but I wouldn't know how to do it (even if it were possible!). And I have A LOT of spells too XD

 

[nedio95]

-Actives
Example:
"Rod of fire mage"
+int
+some other stat
+fire ball spell (now mana is not so useless as you have additional spell to spend it on)

-Spell damage
You may trigger some of your intelligence based heroes to have spells which scale with intelligence.

 

[Mirage_tempest]

Or you can make this...

- Increases all spell damage by x%

but you will need DDS to do that

 

[Karzama]

The map is already really quite complex and will be much bigger when it's complete so I'd rather not add in a DDS, thanks for the idea though. The fireball one could work though Any other ideas would be appreciated

 

[nedio95]

-Custom passives
Weird passives which help mages kill/survive longer
Example:
"Void cloak"
+int
+some other stat
+Void Protection - When the mage is too damages (hp less than 5%) he shifts into the void for 5 seconds, making him invisible and invulnerable just barely to escape. CD 60s

Another example:
"Tome of Necromancy"
+int
+some other stat
+Basic Necromancy - Each time the mage kills a minor unit there is a chance to summon a minor skeleton from the corpse.

Be imaginative, although 10+ years old, war3 has a very powerful world editor + custom scripts with which you can do almost anything (Except cooldown reduction -_- )

 

[Krakenn99]

-Custom passives
Weird passives which help mages kill/survive longer
Example:
"Void cloak"
+int
+some other stat
+Void Protection - When the mage is too damages (hp less than 5%) he shifts into the void for 5 seconds, making him invisible and invulnerable just barely to escape. CD 60s

Another example:
"Tome of Necromancy"
+int
+some other stat
+Basic Necromancy - Each time the mage kills a minor unit there is a chance to summon a minor skeleton from the corpse.

Be imaginative, although 10+ years old, war3 has a very powerful world editor + custom scripts with which you can do almost anything (Except cooldown reduction -_- )

Oh nice ones... I might as well use some of those ;o

 

[Karzama]

Both of those ideas seem pretty cool I have a grenade system which I could add damage/aoe/clusters too via the mods Will totally make some of these later

 

[Tal'Rarity]

Using a DDS won't cause any lag problems so I can not see your reasoning as to why you don't want to use it. It's actually a small script even unless you use Nestharus's DDS.

By the way you can do cooldown reduction as well in two ways, triggered or multiple levels of the ability. So yeah we can even do CD reduction. Quite something indeed. Level the ability and the new cooldown will take place instantly.

This is in the wrong section as well, should be in idea factory or map development or request area.

 

[Karzama]

That form of CD reduction would not work as my spells have 15/9 levels as it is. For the topic of the dds I thought it would take up a lot memory and with how I want the map to pan out I'm already worried that it'll become too big to play on bnet. Plus if I were to detect spell damage it amplify the damage of all guns too as they use pheonix fire to deal damage.

I wasn't sure where to post this but I'll remember that for next time

 

[Wietlol]

Well...
CD reduction can be done by replacing the ability with one new ability that has many levels.
That ability will be put on cooldown when you start the effect of the first ability.

I have my own cooldown system in which I can modify more than is actually done in the games that I've seen so far but it requires you to create a lot of stuff and register the whole bunch of abilities.

Anyway, it is hard to think of spells if we don't know the possibilities in your map.
For example, Mirage Tempest mentioned the increase spell damage by (...)%, which is a nice thing and is very clear what it does.
However, your map as it is in it's current state cannot tell the difference between a spell and a bullet... At least that is what you say.
When using a completely customized Alternative Damage-Engine, you are able to anything that would affect damage.
In that case, simply increasing specific damage types is a very easy thing.

Secondly, if Maximum Mana and Mana Regeneration are something that doesn't have to be increased and stuff, then your map either has no mana at all or it is very imbalanced.
(Imbalanced maps are not fun to play.)

After all, you have to explain what kind of effects the items have in your map.
For example, you can have items that are like the WC3 items (very minor increases)
but you could also have a map where 75% of the heroes' effectiveness is measured in items.

The different types of items are also one thing to think about.
Imagine that you are able to buy items that give you a bonus spell.
If that spell cost mana and some heroes do not use mana or use it for something else, hen you are kinda fcked up.
In other cases, you can have items that boosts your stats.
I don't have any idea what stats are used in your map so it will be hard for me to think about spells that use it.

In my upcoming map, I use
- Physical Armor
- Magic Resistance
- Luck
- Physical Damage
- Spell Power
- Armor Penetration
- Magic Penetration
- Attack Speed
- Critical Strike Chance/Damage
- Cooldown Reduction

Now I have things to choose from to make my spells.

If you are using WC3 basics, then you find yourself locked up inside the attributes.
In WC3, the attributes increase anything that you can have in WC3 basics.
Having things increase on each other is then stupid because it is already done.

Last but not least, I would like to know what kind of heroes, INT heroes actually are.
In WC3, INT heroes are way different than Mages in LoL for example.
When making items or other stuff for those heroes, you have to think what the hero is supposed to do, what it can do, what problems he has and what he has to deal with as opponents.

I can give you many item spells once I know how your items and your map work.

 

[Karzama]

The entire loot system is the most important thing in the map really, where obviously class mods are dealt with. Class mods are there to amplify you're hero's strengths and get rid of weaknesses. For example strength hero's have lowerer movement speed than others so the scout class mod would remove this weakness, whereas an agility based hero would receive a better benefit from a hunter class mod as that will give them critical strike.

Intelligence heroes are intended to be more heavily reliant on their ultimate than other heroes. They are also mostly ranged and have medium strength and agility.
Strength heroes are intended to be the tanks of the map, where they usually lack other stats and have an ultimate based around recover their own hit points.
Agility heroes are intended to be fragile but powerful, mostly dealing damage with their basic attacks. Their ultimate tend to be based around dealing damage.

There are some hybrids such as a strength/intelligence heroes where their primary stat is strength but their ultimate scales with intelligence. As well as some heroes that have ultimate that scale with multiple attributes.

Lastly the setup is that each hero has 5 abilities. 3 simple passives which are shared with multiple heroes (such as bonus armor or hp regeneration), a unique ability that is only found on this hero (non scaling) and their ultimate (scaling).

Hope this helps!

 

[Wietlol]

As you have only 2 abilities per hero, I would suggest you to use item spells as well.
This means makin items like
Holy Bolt/Death Coil, Silence, Firebolt, Immolation, etc

I have a simple AoS map where there are items that have a unique active for Holy Bolt and one for Death Coil. The heroes that have the Holy Bolt and Death Coil as base abilities have way stronger ones than the items give but that is just a simple balance thing.

The idea is to make spells on items so your heroes will not be limited to 2 abilities (1 if their ult has a medium to high cooldown)
To do this, you require to make the Strength and Agility items with about the same beneficial effects as the Intelligence items that you will make.

Here are a few examples for Item Uniques:
Passive:
- Increases INT by (...)%
- After every spellcast, your next basic attack deals an additional (...) damage.
- INT is increased by (...)% of maximum/current mana.
- Deal (...) damage to nearby enemy units.
- Reduces incoming damage by (...). Damage cannot be reduced below 35%. (This can scale with anything ofcourse but fits best with magic if you have a little story behind it.)
- Increases INT by 4 for each ability cast for 10 seconds. Stacks up to 10 times.
Active:
- Heal the target allied unit for (...) health.
- Create a barrier that blocks incoming damage up to (...) for (...) seconds. If the barrier is not destroyed after that time, it explodes, dealing (...) damage to nearby enemy units.
- Throw a firebolt at the target enemy unit dealing (...) damage.
- Creates a magical field at the target location increasing allied unit's movement speed and attack speed. (A bit of supportive item.)
- Your next ability will deal (...) additional damage and slows enemy movement by (...)%.

To make the items not be very overpowered, you set their effect to a very low amount and their cooldowns to a low amount as well. Then you set a normal to high mana cost on the items.
The last 2 item abilities should have a bit higher cooldown but still have a relatively high mana cost.

For example: Firebolt has 2 seconds cooldown, deals (low) damage and cost (average) mana.
This way, the mage can replace his basic attacks by the firebolt until their mana runs out.

 

[Karzama]

First of all thanks for such a good reply!

The entire map is generally based around loot where you don't really have a way of getting what you want easily, which makes each playthrough much different. Also there are different levels of class mods which have greater effects, where the later ones gain bonus effects such as stat bonuses. (5 levels in total, example: Nurse class mod gives team hp regen at low levels and gives the holder lifesteal in higher levels)

But anyway those suggestions are awesome! I definitely like the look of the Fireball and Magical Field ones. How would I create the shield one without a DDS though?

 

[Wietlol]

Well. A DDS is not that hard to implement.
Even though I thought that there was a spell in the spell section that did it without (and I am very curious about how it works) I suggest you to download the Physical Damage Detection for GUI v1.2.0.1 by looking_for_help to start learning what it does.
Even though there are a few things that I don't agree with and can be done better but the basics can be done very easily.

Just copy the objects and copy the triggers and be sure to follow the importing instructions carefully.
If the map still runs without problems, you have successfully implemented the DDS.

One problem might be that even though it is a "GUI" system, the configuration is still JASS.
Other problems will only occur in very in-depth spells.