Infernals Vs. Golems

[Lingonberryjam]

I am attaching the current map right here.

@ Codexx: start working on the map now. The imported doodads should help you make a little more different. Use the ones you like, and note that the BigTree model works in-game.

We do not yet have the mine-model, but i think wc3man had one we could use, but you dont need that model rigth now codexx.

If you have models you would like to use, just import them (use the mdx-squisher if you have it)

Questions, please ask...

@ wc3man: Well, here you go. We must get the Gold and Jade-Golems to work better in some way, or replace them with new models...

and i would like to hear what you guys think of the optional quests, should it be like the golems have 1 and infernals 1, or that both races can do all the optional quests?

 

[Codexx]

I'll start tomorrow if possible.

*yawn* going to sleep for now though.

 

[Yearight]

I whas thinking of the temple idea is for the infernals.
And in the temple when u get the scroll then a big monster gets loose in the temple and then its a race out of the temple, when you reaching the entrance then the temple just crashing and the monster gets killed under alot of big rocks?
VERY cinematic^^

 

[wc3man]

note: i suck at cinematic

EDIT- wait wait hold on. since when do I have a mine model?
btw the one i THOUGHT i had but u said not to use i couldnt get. there r too many mpq in WoW

 

[Yearight]

http://hiveworkshop.com/resources_new/models/2922/ here are naybe some crystal model we can use if we havent..?

 

[Lingonberryjam]

@ Yearight:

@ All of you: I've got one of the five mineralmodels!! The crystalmodel is now in our possesion. Check this [url="http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35131]"thread[/url].

That idea sounds fair enough. We dont need cinematics, but we can add them later maybe. Lets not focus on stuff we cant do. Work on that idea, and talk with codexx about the size of the temple.

@wc3man: well, nevermind then. we'll find something, or fix it ourselves soon enough.

 

[Yearight]

Silvenon will do cinematic's for me with a friend..
So we give him some cred ok?

 

[Lingonberryjam]

ok, if he wants to help that could be nice. But the cinematics will one of the last things we take care of, if we want them in the game at all. we'll see.

about the Optional Mission temple i have an idea to make the game more interesting, and not so alike from game to game. The thing you recieve in the temple can be different from game to game.

and as i said, talk with codexx right away, he is making the map and terrain right now, and needs to know what kind of space you need.

 

[wc3man]

hey lingon can u help me brainstorm and think of new spells for yearight to make? if u feel like it u can cause we only have a few spells...

Edit- also is there ne way to link different maps together when u enter an area so u can have like a whole map for the temple?and i cant go to the chat caouse fuking shados banned me for a day and a half(i didnt even do nething)

 

[Lingonberryjam]

oO he banned u just like that? not all too nice... talk with ralle about it if it really was unprovoked.

No i dont think youn can link maps together, but we dont need to. Do not spend time on the temples details, just the basic structure to get a feeling of how it can be. And, the temple is NOT supposed to be a huge thing. This is just an optional quest, not a new map.

About the spells:
I remember i talked about the fact that were not having 80 heroes like in dota, only 10. These heroes will participate in almost every game. That is why it is of great importance that we do not create 10 versions of 1 hero!
I do not think that having each infernal have a aura of its theme. Its a great idea, and of course we will work on the themes, but it will just not hold for playing the map more than 3-4 games. After that, you realize this is the same thing all the time.
However, this does not hinder us from brainstorming spells right now, that is a great idea. Good ur asking.

What we need to start doing is to look at the post i wrote summing up the game for Codexx. Say we want to make up an idea for a Golem-spell. The, look at what Golems are supposed to do, and then what might help them to achieve that. And the same for Infernals of course.
When we have a couple of spells ready, we can start to think of how the Infernals/Golems could counter those spells, and so on.
And, in reverse, what more spells could help for example the Golems to make their already given spells to work better. In this way, we could come up with those cool spell-combos that DotA is using so well and makes it so much funnier to play.

I'm sorry, but i really have to go to sleep right now, working all day tomorrow (schools out for summer, off to work...). But i will think about what spells could be cool and practical. Though, ill end with one good news:

1 more mineral model recieved! (maybe we can use them for many, but we would like to have different models for different minerals)
Check the thread

Goodnight!

 

[wc3man]

um lingon i no ur off but the link isnt working....

 

[Lingonberryjam]

oh not off yet

well check the request forum then, its there.

g'nite

 

[Codexx]

OK well I increased the map size and 'm finishing the borders right now. I have a small space for the "temple". It won't be very big. You can just add a necromancer in there and rename him "priest" and attach a ! over his head.

Once I finish the canyon border and basic decorating I'll add spaces for the bases and their healing areas. Anything else will be right after that.

 

[wc3man]

ok

 

[Yearight]

Berry - yes u can link maps together... even i know how to, i think

 

[wc3man]

cool we could make the temple under ground and stuff that is if you can go back and forth between maps

 

[Yearight]

yep.. but im not sure about it if it is a multi player map..

 

[wc3man]

damn we can still try ill go and try to link a map right now... not the map we r using just ur 2 spell maps

edit-um i use a trigger right?

 

[Codexx]

*sigh* you guys don't have much experience do you?

Only campaigns can have more than 1 map. That goes for both being linked like a giant map(like the Frozen Throne orc campaign) or moving from level to level(like a standard Warcraft 3 campaign) and Campaigns are not playable over B.net or LAN.

So no, no linking maps.

Question though, what do you mean my mines and how would you like them? Do you want standard Mines from the game(I can even tint them a color based on the mineral) or do you want to have players enter a "cave" and be taken to "mines" which I can make to look like underground caverns, and I can place minerals in them that can be harvested, sorta like Starcraft.

I'm not really sure I get what you mean by mines.

 

[Lingonberryjam]

Well, no linked maps, thank god .

@Codexx:

OK well I increased the map size and 'm finishing the borders right now. I have a small space for the "temple". It won't be very big. You can just add a necromancer in there and rename him "priest" and attach a ! over his head.

Once I finish the canyon border and basic decorating I'll add spaces for the bases and their healing areas. Anything else will be right after that.

Great u increased the size a bit, i guessed that was needed. And the temple doesnt have to be all too big.

Good ur asking. I have not thought about the mines as caves, but as huge "rocks" or walls of stone, though glimmering or showing their value in some way. To harvest from them Golems simply have to "hit" them, using an ability. So to speak, the placement of the mines could be "anywhere", make it look rocky around them just. Think of the mine as a "doodad"-rock.
So dont mind tinting the existing mines or making caves.

Continue to update ur progress here!

@wc3man: U came up with any spells?

 

[Yearight]

but ya can use hidden minimaps or what it is call'd

 

[wc3man]

um how bout we make the mines spawn in random places over the map? you no like 2 every couple of minutes?

no no spells yet

can u extract speels from other blizzard games and use them in wc3? i once took d2 music and put it in wc3 but im not sure about spells

 

[Codexx]

Ok, here's what I'll do.

I'd finish the upper half terrain, then expand the map down and make the mines there. Above Ground mines will be tinted gold mines, below ground I'll use Starcraft like minerals.

 

[Lingonberryjam]

@ wc3man: There should be no need of using spells from other games. Why do you keep looking for trouble? I honestly want to create this map, not just talk about making it. And if i havent got it all wrong, no one here has any expierence to talk about, so lets just learn how to use triggers first.

No offense, but i really think we shouldnt make it harder than it is right now!
Oki?

So, about the minerals, the Barite looks more like a nice diamond rather than silverpiece, so ill edit the request post after that. What we would like to have now is minerals for: Gold, Jade (We have backup on this) and Silver (We have backup on this).

I dont think "spawning mines" is a good idea... just, how can mines just pop up? I know this is a fantasy game , but we have to keep our feet at the earth... BUT! The idea about the mines spawning randomly can be used in another way. Instead of having them spawning all the time, we could just let them spawn on random locations in the start of the game. We could have like 5-6 spots where the 3 mines are randomly placed in the start. In this way, the "map" itself is different from game to game, giving a more diverse gameplay, not knowing how the strategy of the game will be.

I suggest we really start to look into the Heroes and their spells as soon as we got the first outcome of codexx terrain. But keep brainstorming!

@ Codexx: Ye feel free to expand the map, you have the best feel for the space we need right now. But i didnt get this part:

... Above Ground mines will be tinted gold mines, below ground I'll use Starcraft like minerals.

What do you mean with "above" and "below" ground? As i said, we do not want this mining part to be to complicated. Just bashing on a rock to get some stones out of it. How it implements on the game can be very complex, but the the player should only have to know:
"Mining minerals is easy and i profit on it, i just hit the mine!"
So, no catacombs which the Hero enters or anything, just a plain "Mine-Unit" which we can find a model to later.

If you didnt read what i wrote to wc3man, read this Codexx:

The idea about the mines spawning randomly can be used in another way. Instead of having them spawning all the time, we could just let them spawn on random locations in the start of the game. We could have like 5-6 spots where the 3 mines are randomly placed in the start. In this way, the "map" itself is different from game to game, giving a more diverse gameplay, not knowing how the strategy of the game will be.

If we all agree to this, we will decide the number of "mine-locations" and then you'll have to create those locations... hope ur not mad at me coming up with ideas like that this late... :s

Still, good that you keep updating your progress here, keep it up!

 

[wc3man]

hey lingon i like the 3 mines spawning at random places each game it makes it more diverse and people who get good at the map cant take advantage of worse people by finding the mines right after game start

 

[Codexx]

Well here's how it'll end up working:

There'll be 3 mines above ground and 2 or 3 below. I can do the randomness thing, using triggers. But I'm not programming it.

"Under Ground" will be a second area. A cramped space where you are likely to meet the enemy, but a good place to do your mining if the Infernals don't know you're down there. Still, it's riskier since you can't just run towards your base. So I'll design it to be one of those deathtrap type places.

I'll pick 6 or 7 nice locations, and the various mines can be placed in any of those regions, one of 3 types. The most valuable type will be underground, in the "caves" . It's a strategy thing. The most valuable(based on power of the minion golems) type of minerals is underground, in a place that is a bottleneck.

Once I get things placed, it'll all make sense.

 

[wc3man]

ok

 

[Lingonberryjam]

@ wc3man: Ye we will see how Codexx will work it out with the map, and then decide if we want the random thing or not.

@ codexx: Ok, i suppose i'll get the whole thing better when i see it all. Keep working on it and i know it'll be great.

 

[wc3man]

hey codexx im just wondering how the maps going

 

[Lingonberryjam]

yeah, would like to hear from ya soon...

 

[Codexx]

A little slow. I can't have the world editor up all the time because it eats processing memory, making it hard to have any other program except the internet running. I'll finish adding the bases and such soon.

Now, one problem I'm having is that you want "main routes" and "side routes" but I can't really make someone take a certain path without using pathing blockers and a ton of hill/trees, which won't work considering the map's current destructible count is near the limit. I find it's best to just build a map and let players find the most convenient path on the map to take.

 

[Yearight]

mmh.. goes a bit slow here but working on it

 

[Lingonberryjam]

@Codexx: Ok, no problems with the "routes". Its just fine with a more open map, as long as this does not make the game empty and lacking action, since there's only 5v5 and not much armies.

@Yearight: I only took one look at the spells, and here's the reasons why:

"The golem gains a little bit of Gaions power, and unlease it in a area thats heal freinds and destroys enemys."

and:

The infernal samples all the burning energy and samples it into a heavy destroying force, and then unlease the mighty force in target area.

and the tooltip for Warstomp on the last spell you made...

C'mon, a spell should have a tooltip which explains what the spell does, not how it looks. So, your spells should have a tooltip that makes any nub out there understand it. Also, i dont want to have to look through all those triggers just to figure out what heck you're trying to do... a short tooltip and some short comments in the triggers please, and then ill look into them...

they look nice, but seem like quite simple spells with cool effects.

***

Anyways, as you may have noticed im not online so much right now, since i work all day long and then go straight to soccer training/match. But the first half of the soccer season is almost over, so ill be online more often.

Stil, waiting for the terrain from codexx, no stress, but we'll start for real when we get that...

Stay tuned!

 

[Yearight]

Just ya know it, they're not so simple it took me long time to figure out the Burning terror and Gaion the saver.

 

[Codexx]

If you want I can implement a system that will route the pathing through so the standard route is along a certain path, but make it so they can go off if they want.

 

[Lingonberryjam]

@Codexx: That sounds like a good idea, but you dont need to put a lot of effort into that.

@Yearight: Fixed version? Whats different i cant see no changes? The spells still have the same tooltips and theres no comments in the trigger editor...

 

[Yearight]

shit.. then i forgot to save the changes NOOOO!

http://hiveworkshop.com/resources_new/pastebin/show/e929186bd187003495f700074d26b7ea/ here is the new fixed version... i hope

 

[Yearight]

Codexx i have a cind of plan of the temple.. but if u wonna make a temple i would like to see it http://hiveworkshop.com/resources_new/pastebin/show/4a4c15e6658dc3661f0bf2f93e7184ae/
it is a bit shity.. and i would like it a big bigger i think

I have the feeling like where'a stuck.. is we?

 

[Lingonberryjam]

yep. were waiting for codexx to come up with the terrain. maybe hes off on vacation somewhere...

as said, im working all day long, sitting in front of a pute, so its kinda hard for me to come home and just sit down and work with this, you really need to do something else when you come home

Still, were not in a hurry, i expect we'll all be off to and from for the next two months. We have the basic plan out, but we shouldnt feel forced to finish it all too soon, better late than bad imo. So, keep yer eyes open for the terrain to be done, and carry on with other projects if you feel like, we might find interesting ideas to use in this map.

As for me, im actually working on my old maps, trying to get a decent beta version of the Loka Wars out.

So, lets not be hasty, im going to enjoy my summer outside of my house too, but ill be glad to see the terrain done when it comes to that...

Yep.

 

[wc3man]

well im finally back from vacatiion anything happen?

 

[HappyTauren]

apparently, no.