[Unsolved] how can i create the gameplay from original war

[andreasaspenberg]

i want to port original war to starcraft 2. i need quite a bit of information in order to accomplish that though. i need to know how i can create heroes that can change between 4 classes.(soldier, mechanic, engineer and scientist.) each class have 1 skill of their own which is their speciality and that therefore becomes more effective but each class can help with building construction and that increases engineering skill. driving and using the weapons mounted on the "cars" increases mechanical skill.(building them as a mechanic also increases the skill.) attacking and manning turrets increases the soldier skill. researching and healing increases the scientific skill. the skills increased through experience. "cars" are customizable.(engine, chassis, control and weapon) i have given you the information you need about original war. please give me the information i need to port it to starcraft 2.

 

[Dr Super Good]

If heroes are finite in number you can probably trigger it. Each time the player does something that improves their hero, you increment an integer. You can use this integer to compute things like damage, delays, durations etc for the various abilities. For storing all the hero data you can use a struct array (forget the GUI term for it, I think data) where the struct contains all member variables used by the heroes.

As far as data goes, all you need are templates for the various effects (simple dummy abilities) and units (the heroes themselves). Some things might be possible with more complex data entries (actors may need special events for better visuals) but generally it should be mostly done by triggers.

Of course you could probably use the data entry to do most of it, but since it will involve formulas and special actions, triggers are probably more suited for generating the results you want.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

it sounds good but due to my limited understanding of the editor i need more information. i want to learn though so that wont need to keep asking for help. i forgot to mention one thing however and that is that mechanics and scientists work inside buildings.(factory or workshop for mechanic and lab for scientist.)

 

[Dr Super Good]

You can get the loading status of units via triggers. This was used in the campaigns for Nydus worms and air drop-ins.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

i believe you but, it isnt enough information because i dont know enough about the trigger editor to create the system myself. i also need a system that can transform the heroes from one class to another from inside the buildings. please help me rather than post vague stuff.

 

[chobibo]

Try looking for a tutorial, if there is any.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

tutorials is too general, i need information tailored to my own needs.

 

[Dr Super Good]

The big problem here is your question is too general. You are basically asking how to do everything at once and no one is even sure of exactly what you want.

It may be a good idea to lower problem scope down a bit. Create a literal example of what you want a full finished hero to be, including all interactions he must make during a session.

From this, a problem specification can be formulated which can be used to create a solution tailored to your needs. Once a prototype is done, you can start to think about adding more heroes and things to the systems.

Currently no one can help you as no one but yourself has any idea of what you want to do.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

original war is an existing game so, people can gather information from it. each hero have 4 skills: soldier, engineer, mechanic and scientist. they all need to present at all times but there is also 4 classes, each connected to a single skill.(each class gives a bonus to the connected skill.) any class can help with construction but only engineers and buildings can start it and construction increases engineering experience that eventually increases the engineering level.(higher levels enables the engineer to upgrade the building`s armor.) the experience system is the same for all skills but they have separate levels. better mechanics build "cars" faster and is better drivers. better scientists research and heal faster. better soldiers improve the attack of manual turrets and fight better. is that enough information or do you need more.(if you need more please tell me.)

 

[Dr Super Good]

How many of such heroes will there be per session (units in game)?

A start would be to focus on adding the definite units necessary. This includes all buildings, vehicles and maybe a unit for each class. The functionality of such units can come later but for now the units will give you a foundation to slowly build upon.

To make a functional unit in SC2 there are 2 core requirements...
1. A Unit catalogue entry of class unit. This represents the unit type and its various statistics, abilities and things like that. Units created of these entries have a physical presence in the game and will be used for game play to occur.
2. An Actor catalogue entry of class unit with events to be created and destroyed with the Unit entry from part 1. This represents the visual aspect that is associated with every unit. Actors created of these entries represent the units in a visual space and so will not be involved in game play directly (a unit will perform the same in-game even with out an actor, just no one can select or see it without an actor).

If a lot of actors or units share a common set of functionality, you can make them a template and extend implementations from it. Although not strictly necessary, it does simplify data complexity and improve maintainability.

Buildings will need certain footprint entries for them. A footprint entry represents the pathing space that a building exists in and is used for both placement (where the building can be built) and collision (where units cannot walk when a building is placed). Look at existing footprint entries if you want some idea how they work. You basically paint a grid with certain path types that represent pathing mesh types.

After you have done this you should have a good foundation to build upon. This is where you can start linking things together and turning simple dysfunctional units into core parts of the game. Once you have reached this stage I will guide you further to build up the systems you want.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

i would prefer to finish the system first and take it from there. that is just my style when working on mod maps. please help me create the system first. units i can work on along the way but without the important system nailed i cant tell for sure if it turn into anything and then i might be discouraged to continue.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Except you then have nothing to implement the system on. You see you cannot start building a tower half way up as it will fall down (since the base is not there to support it).

There is also no "one size fits all" system to your problem. It will need many different parts to create a fully working solution.

each hero have 4 skills: soldier, engineer, mechanic and scientist. they all need to present at all times

A good way to implement this would be as attributes since this will then give each hero special integers representing progression. An Attribute is a class in the Behaviour catalogue which gives a unit a special quantified field that improves the unit in some way. This is similar to hero attributes in WC3 (Intelligence, Agility and Strength) but more flexible as you can define exactly what each attribute does and how many attributes a unit should have. Attributes may improve a hero in no way directly but be used by triggers for certain results.

Start by creating your 4 hero attributes and setting the range you want them to be. The granularity involved should be for visible improvement and as a gauge of progression. It should be abstracted away from direct upgrade unless a certain action specifically makes a noticeable improvement. Having numbers like "20,000" would be silly but hundreds is alright for a maximum. Attributes like Soldier you may want to add HP or things but I do not know as the details what it does is unclear from your description.

After you have your basic attributes, add them to your hero units (created by my previous instructions...) and this will make the foundation of your heroes.

Next give your engineer class the things you want it to make via a build ability. Look at SCV build for an example. Then add requirements to the various building types which require you have a certain amount of Engineering attribute for them to be unlocked. If this is not possible make it require a Buff behaviour that can be given to the unit at certain amounts of attribute. All other classes get a build ability that allows friendly targeting but no actual buildings so that they can help build but not start foundations.

On to levelling up Engineering now using triggers. Every time a new building is started you award engineering attribute to the hero. There is an action to change attribute quantity. If that is not what is desired (again, you were ambiguous) then you can start a trigger thread that monitors the buildings construction status. Every time its construction status changes you search all nearby units for those building it nearby. Award each of these units some custom unit value (choose an index to represent engineering progression, keep this consistent throughout all triggers, I advise a constant is used to allow index changes as required) and if that value exceeds a threshold (like 1.0) then you reset it to 0 and award the unit an attribute point in engineering.

I believe you can set attributes by adding behaviour charges, but I am not sure.

Once you get a small part like that working, the rest is kind of similar. For abilities that use attribute points you use a trigger enhanced end effect (where a trigger event is fired by the end effect) that then computes the desired effect factoring in the attribute. Events such as taking damage or making kills could increase soldier skills in a similar way.

When a unit gets in another unit such a turret. You could add a buff behaviour to the turret based on soldier attribute that boosts damage and attack speed etc. The number of stacks added represents how much it is to be boosted and would depend on the soldier attribute amount.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

i might be able to use that information in order to create the system but what about the mechanic and the scientist. they work inside buildings and those buildings only work when they are there. buildings are enabled entirely by research but the factory have 5 extension slots where engineers build extensions to improve the capabilities of the factory.(computer extension enables computer controlled "cars" to be built in that factory.) i did write that construction increases engineer experience. you could download the original war demo to learn more.

 

[Dr Super Good]

you could download the original war demo to learn more.

Yeh I could... Or equally well I could not and just go play some SC2... Or I could study for my exams, that is also something I could do with my time.

they work inside buildings

Again triggers are needed. Buildings without such a person in them lack a hidden buff behaviour that disables all their functionality. A trigger then adds the behaviour to the building when ever you load one of the heroes into it and removes it when the hero leaves the building. All functions of the building have a requirement of that behaviour.

When a building finishes a technology or unit, then it awards the unit that is inside with attribute experience. The same things happen as with the engineer described earlier.

Building expansions could be permanent buff behaviours that are added to the building. Extension slots could be another stackable buff behaviour with 5 charges. Once an extension is built, it adds the behaviour representing the functionality added and adds one charge to the extension counter behaviour. A requirement then makes sure that less than 5 extensions are built (it disables further extensions if 5 stack charges exist) or that the extension does not exist already(presence of the added behaviour).

 

[andreasaspenberg]

the way it works in the real game is that research can still be clicked but when there isnt a scientist inside the building there is a missing scientist icon flashing on the building. the scientists and the mechanics gets experience while they are working but perhaps a periodic timer can fix that that checks if the building is researching or building something.

 

[Dr Super Good]

You can use a buff behaviour to set the research rate multiplier to 0.001. Sure it still researches slowly but at 1/1000 speed it would be impractical to rely on that. A 10 second upgrade would take 2.78 hours to research.

If that is still a problem (want perfection) then ever 5 minutes undo the small amount of research progress made using a trigger.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

what about setting the research rate multiplier to 0.000. how can i make specific buildings placable only near specific buildings. how can i make buildings require units constructing to upgrade.

 

[Dr Super Good]

what about setting the research rate multiplier to 0.000.

Minimum value is 0.001.

how can i make specific buildings placable only near specific buildings.

Not sure.

how can i make buildings require units constructing to upgrade.

Remove the old building and place a new building that is still a foundation?

 

[andreasaspenberg]

replacing the building with a building under construction is similar to original war. how can i create units consisting of 4 segments built inside 1 building.(they have to be chosen from a list and 4 types must be chosen. weapon, engine, control and chassis.)

 

[Dr Super Good]

Buff Behaviours. Not only do you use them with requirements to assure only 1 of each set is present, but you also attach actors to them to alter the units visually as necessary.

Basically, you have buttons that requires that the unit have no engine and pressing them gives the unit an engine. If any engine buff is on the unit, you cannot press any of the other engine buttons to give the units more than 1 engine.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

here is some screen shorts from original war the shows the interface.

 

[RED BARON]

I also need a system that can transform the heroes from one class to another from inside the buildings. please help me rather than post vague stuff.

I would start out by finding a basic tutorial, and work my way up to have a general understanding of the editor. Then you would have a better grasp upon it.

But in relation to what DSG is atalking about, you can find the campaign maps and look at what they did in order to do something similar. As for the heroes I imagine that you need to select them based upon a proximity to the building and apply a condition for changing their class or not -> But here I would check for some guides about heroes in SC2. Like this one; creating a hero.

Hope it helps a little.

EDIT: And upon posting my browser realized that there was two pages, thus making most of what I wrote irrelevant, however I leave it for the tutorials - which I feel you might still want.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

the heroes need to be garrisoned inside the building to change class. i dont want to follow a tutorial because of my problems with learning from lots of text. the screenshots i posted shows the interface of original war so that should be used as a guideline. i do however want to port it to the starcraft universe so i need terran, zeg and protoss versions of that same interface.