Helms Deep Total War 1.7c

[Moderator]

01:15, 18th Jun 2010
VGsatomi: Approved. Decent Helms Deep map. More terrain and features then many. However those on offense have a hard time early in the game when they have little resources to replace fallen troops and forces are vulnerable to the archers. Adds strategy over button mashing, but offense is more easily shut down then others.

 

[irock9645696]

ANother helms deep and big file size too

 

[Garfield1337]

It's nice Helms Deep map,it's not so hard for Uruk Hai as in most Helms Deep maps...
I laughed a bit at that ending music when Uruk Hai win,but you should remove it because it takes memory and map is already large. Also i've noticed that when you use Uruk Hai artillery,a selectable dummy spawns at hitting position,add locust to it.
The defenders' special abilities are very nice idea,Gimli's and Legolas' especialy xD
Else...quite nice map,4/5

 

[Banefull]

It's nice Helms Deep map,it's not so hard for Uruk Hai as in most Helms Deep maps...
I laughed a bit at that ending music when Uruk Hai win,but you should remove it because it takes memory and map is already large. Also i've noticed that when you use Uruk Hai artillery,a selectable dummy spawns at hitting position,add locust to it.
The defenders' special abilities are very nice idea,Gimli's and Legolas' especialy xD
Else...quite nice map,4/5

The music file size is a mere 197 kilobytes. The selectable dummy at the target area was something I must have overlooked. We will make it unselectable in the next version release. If anyone has any ideas for new special abilities to add, do feel free to make suggestions. We are very interested to hear what others would like to see in future versions.

 

[Vuormalainen]

I can just say, yet people try..

 

[Hawk]

Well another Helm's Deep.But it's better then some other Helm's Deep maps.Just fix the icons they turn Green...

 

[mappman]

i dont get why people stress about filesize, its not that big unless your comp is "antiqe" when it goes over 100mb ill start to worry hope its a good map tho cant wait to hear this music XD

 

[MustyToaster]

Some answers to questions.

Well another Helm's Deep.But it's better then some other Helm's Deep maps.Just fix the icons they turn Green...

The Icons are green because they don't have placeholders for dead ones, i didn't include them to keep file-size low, you hardly see them so it is not to much of an issue.


In regards to the file size: while it is larger than normal keep in mind that with todays internet speeds i highly doubt it will take people very long to download it. Not to mention that one of the many purposes of this site is to download maps so you don't have to download in game.

 

[Chizume]

The maps looks nice. I will test it and comment when I come home later today (Surbscirbing to remember)

 

[Fingolfin]

I think big map size is a sign of quality. The less of the old ugly blizzard models, the better.
I don't hear you whine about SC2 maps being up to 20mb.

 

[CloudWolf]

i dont get why people stress about filesize, its not that big unless your comp is "antiqe" when it goes over 100mb ill start to worry hope its a good map tho cant wait to hear this music XD

The main reason is the download time when playing online When a player hosts, the map is transfered from peer to peer meaning the download rate is totally Dependant on the hosts upload speed. If you've only got a 256kb upload speed, then a 4mb map is going to take a while to transfer. You're probably looking at spending about 20 minutes (or more) in the lobby before the game even starts

Mind you, if you have a decent upload rate it won't really matter too much I only say this because the majority of home-Internet users in the United Kingdom have less than 512kb upload speeds So reducing the map size as much as possible is always a good idea!

I think big map size is a sign of quality. The less of the old ugly blizzard models, the better.
I don't hear you whine about SC2 maps being up to 20mb.

SC2 maps are hosted on Blizzard servers. The download rate is a lot faster so file-size isn't so much of an issue

--------------------------------

On-topic, I had a quick test of the map Love the custom imports etc and the whole-gameplay style was really great so good work there! I also really like the intro cinematic, it looked a lot like the real film

Now for the constructive crit

As with most Helm's deep maps, the orc heroes were near-useless on the field :/ Sending them forward resulted in getting them killed quite quickly against the enemy players, especially as the forces of good had much higher hero-levels mid-game I guess one way to get round that may be make all orc heroes ranged (with reduced attack damage) so that they can take part in the battle, and not get totally annihilated

Also, 4mb is quite large for a 11-player map. I would highly recommend optimizing the quality of any custom textures you use You can normally scale them down to 256x256 in size, and save at 55% quality and you'll hardly notice the difference in game You could probably shave a few 100kb off the file-size that way

On the whole though, the map was really fun to play, and I look forward to any future updates! The map has lots of potential

 

[Fingolfin]

I personally don't know many players with that kind of low upload speed (perhaps my grandma, but she's not really into warcraft) so you should be fine.
It's still a valid point though in many parts of the world, but good maps often get a host bot in wc3 which usually have pretty good upload.

 

[MustyToaster]

The maps looks nice. I will test it and comment when I come home later today (Surbscirbing to remember)

Thanks! I look forward to your review.

As with most Helm's deep maps, the orc heroes were near-useless on the field :/ Sending them forward resulted in getting them killed quite quickly against the enemy players, especially as the forces of good had much higher hero-levels mid-game I guess one way to get round that may be make all orc heroes ranged (with reduced attack damage) so that they can take part in the battle, and not get totally annihilated

Also, 4mb is quite large for a 11-player map. I would highly recommend optimizing the quality of any custom textures you use You can normally scale them down to 256x256 in size, and save at 55% quality and you'll hardly notice the difference in game You could probably shave a few 100kb off the file-size that way

First thanks for the input, positive or constructive i appreciate the time people take to play and give feedback.

Uruk hero's in general should be used with troops at ALL TIMES, think of uruk hero's more as commanders. Not necessarily useful on the front line, but good for support and special circumstances. A wave of archers is going to wipe anyone out no matter how powerful they are, i feel this is as good as i can get it unless i make them snipers and that wouldn't really be fair.


A massive part of 1.4 was to make uruk hero's less of a hassle to play, while i feel i can do more i would still call it a half-success compared to 1.3 or lower.


Id also like to apologize to people who live in foreign country's with slower ISP's. I assure you i have done everything i can to make the map smaller while keeping all quality in tact. All images i found to be .tga have been compressed to 24-bit pixels with RLE compression. I have also used a optimization program on the map that has reduced it 13% of its total size. Overall without these changes the map would be somewhere around 5MB so id call 4MB an improvement.

If any of you have suggestions for future updates feel free to let me know!!!

 

[Chizume]

The hero icons don't have a working DISBTN. Abilities could use some work, develop them into something more innovative. As of now they are quite dull and some contain tool tip errors. Expecting Rohirrims and getting tiny foot soldiers for instance. Switching weapon could use a cooldown, as of now I can pretty much switch back and forth instantly, which allows me to deal crazy damage if controlled in the right way; making it a little OP. Terrain could be greatly improved by killing dead spots of plain terrain. I personally think you need some more innovative ideas to make a Helm's Deep map. I have played a bunch and they all look the same with only minor adjustments.

In short, if you rework the terrain and unit abilities. This map's grade will rise.

EDIT: Control points are nice.

Depending on what level of quality you would like this map to be on I would rate it 3/5 on a Novice level, or 1/5 on a Professional level.

Also excuse me if I'm being to direct. Best of luck.

Yours,
Chizume

 

[deathsilence46]

Um i am newbie of world editor here im gonna tell you what is terrain?

 

[Chizume]

Um i am newbie of world editor here im gonna tell you what is terrain?

The terrain is the environment and landscapes of a world editor map. Usually they are cliffs, tiles, heights and such related things.

 

[Light]

totally awesome the models are what i want in a map and you got me. nice!!

 

[leeko]

This game is amazing. But there are a few problems I found that can make this game better.

1. If you can add LOTR music that would be awesome.
2. orc archers need to be nerf or cost wood instead of gold or both. I hate it when I see orc mass archers, they kill heroes way to fast before a heal can even go off when targeted.
3. Minor issue theoden summon ability has the same short cut A ability for attack.
4. Maybe make the patterns on the floor brighter for siege ladders. I don't have a problem with it but other players do.
5. Found a bug with aragorn's special ability when he throws gimli, gimli gets stuck in the wall.


Other than those things this is the best helms deep map ever created.

 

[MustyToaster]

This game is amazing. But there are a few problems I found that can make this game better.

1. If you can add LOTR music that would be awesome.
2. orc archers need to be nerf or cost wood instead of gold or both. I hate it when I see orc mass archers, they kill heroes way to fast before a heal can even go off when targeted.
3. Minor issue theoden summon ability has the same short cut A ability for attack.
4. Maybe make the patterns on the floor brighter for siege ladders. I don't have a problem with it but other players do.
5. Found a bug with aragorn's special ability when he throws gimli, gimli gets stuck in the wall.


Other than those things this is the best helms deep map ever created.

Thanks so much for the input, it helps make the map better. I've deiced to list off responses to your list in matching order:

1. Music (especially high quality) takes up massive room file-size wise with our current file size already being a problem i cant say i can do this. I sometimes play music over wc3, so maybe you can get a LOTR soundtrack or something and mute wc3s music only =).

2. Uruk archers are indeed a known issue, having been nerfed already once before, i can say its going to be hard to do so without making them mass only. Ill maybe weaken them a bit for 1.7 and consider reworking them in the future.

3. ALL key shortcuts will be "QWER" physical based in 1.7 so this will no longer be an issue.

4. With dynamic lighting the way it is i agree its hard to see for ladders positioning, my goal is to find a way to make it obvious where to put them while not breaking the maps immersion, i may hold off on this till after 1.7.

5. Gimli has never gotten stuck for me, however his physics are really funny sometimes even without the event in play, I'm already looking into this but ill test that also.

1.7 is coming out soon and its easily the biggest update since 1.2, hopefully at least some of your listed issues will be addressed.

 

[gtsimos]

It's nice Helms Deep map,it's not so hard for Uruk Hai as in most Helms Deep maps...
I laughed a bit at that ending music when Uruk Hai win,but you should remove it because it takes memory and map is already large. Also i've noticed that when you use Uruk Hai artillery,a selectable dummy spawns at hitting position,add locust to it.
The defenders' special abilities are very nice idea,Gimli's and Legolas' especialy xD
Else...quite nice map,4/5

garfield is right

 

[leeko]

No problem mustytoaster. I am glad I can help anyway I can. Going to try out the new verison soon.

 

[leeko]

Ok after testing the new version a few times I found some of the new stuff worse from the previous patch. Here are a few things I think can use a quick fix.

1. The QWER keyboard shortcuts should only be for the main 4-6 hero abilities but aren't the same as the basic move-attack.

2. I wanted to say this in my 1st post but didn't know if you were still working with the game. Aragorn is a lackluster hero to many passive abilities or nothing really important to others, Aragorn is expendable unlike the other heroes when you lose them its a huge loss.

3.Theoden's valorous brand ability should have a larger radius like devotion aura. I don't know if you changed it to nerf the ability, if you did then its fine.

4. Legolas melee skin model should go back to the old one it was more unique and fit legolas fighting style.

Now for the good things that was fixed.

1. Orc archers are no longer overpowered only allowing orcs get 20 was a good idea, but should cost wood instead of gold. Not enough things to spend wood on except for ladders/battering rams. And it says in the tool tip for the orc archer that it costs wood.

2. Fixed the bug with Gimli getting stuck in the wall when Aragorn would used his special ability. I tried everything I did before to see if it would bug and it didn't do it anymore.

3. Good Idea to have a visual short cut to use heroes special ability.

That's pretty much it for now if I find anything else I will post it.

 

[MustyToaster]

My Responses blow:

1. The QWER keyboard shortcuts should only be for the main 4-6 hero abilities but aren't the same as the basic move-attack. I am too used to pressing H for hold or A to attack etc hard for me to change that habit.

The idea for me doing this came from an option in SC2 i think its a vastly improved method over remembering what all the ability hot-keys are. Ill admit i still make the mistake sometimes myself however just get used to only using it for the map and you should be fine, give it some time .

2. I wanted to say this in my 1st post but didn't know if you were still working with the game. Aragorn is a lackluster hero to many passive abilities or nothing really important to others, Aragorn is expendable unlike the other heroes when you lose them its a huge loss.

I sort of explain my position on the map status in quests, under "Future Updates". However 1.8 may be the last version depending on what i do with it. Anyway Aragorn really doesn't have any more passive abilitys than anyone else, one thing i want to do is make "Allies of the Numerians" a more important ability to use and handle. I may make it more like a "Misha" thing making you team up with the summoned unit and removing the timed life.

Im also considering making "Atheleas" more of a HoT (Heal over Time) so it is less handy in combat.

3.Theoden's valorous brand ability should have a larger radius like devotion aura. I don't know if you changed it to nerf the ability, if you did then its fine.

Two reasons why i did this:

1. It had way to large of range if positioned correctly Theoden could easily buff the entire front of the keep.

2. The new model just so happened to fit the newly nerfed ability so close i just reduced the ranged by about another 10% to compensate i gave the buff a tad more power.

4. Legolas melee skin model should go back to the old one it was more unique and fit legolas fighting style.

The change was mainly done to reduce file size, however the other model was so clunky and had like a ninja feel to it. Also the old one did not have a spell animation making him feel like a very static hero, overall the trade off was just to good to pass up.



Also thanks for letting me know about the crossbow man TT ill change it for 1.8. Also your going to notice Theodens "Beacon of Light" is messed up with attachments I'm aware of the issue and it'll be fixed for 1.8.

This time around i said no more than yes on allot of this stuff, but keep playing 1.7 its allot more balanced than 1.6 and keep telling me about bugs you find it helps me out allot. Ether way thanks for the input again.

 

[Banefull]

Here is a new work in progress screenshot of the upcoming ver 2.0:

Picture

 

[eubz]

Wow, I like this map... this is really really good...

 

[HOooDy]

I Like The New Terrain !

 

[MustyToaster]

Forum Thread

Now forum thread for the development of 2.0 including new screens can be found [post=1974477]Here[/post].

 

[leeko]

The new stuff looks great mustytoaster, I've been really busy the past few weeks so I haven't been playing helm's deep lately, but looking forward to the 2.0 version.

 

[JaMez32]

Nice Map Love it , I agree to Chizume, map size to much large, 4/5
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[Tristan_kyle_2000]

where did you get the model of the hero male archer

 

[NeedNotoknow]

I think Rohan are quite hard to win this game if Uruk Hai is spamming the free unit with 4 Uruk Hai.