Green Circle TD Gold v1.8

[Moderator]

22:45, 23rd Feb 2010
ap0calypse: Approved

 

[Dr Super Good]

Fourth public realse of this map series version. Have fun. . .

I really need feedback to help improve it as the concept was not orignally my idea but one I abdopted. Thus if you have any sugestions, feel free to say them here (or PM me them if needed).

Below is the unoptimized and thus editable version of this map.
JNGP

 

[Septimus]

1 thing I don't understand is, why they call it circle TD.

I would try to review it ASAP.

 

[Drag0nMast3r]

I like it, exept it makes my comp lagg after a while

 

[Septimus]

Terrain - The massive use of blizzard cliff make the edge of this TD look ugly. However, it was a exception for having such a ugly terrain for such a genre.

Scripting/Triggering - I doesn't view all those scripting/triggering. But I can said it was a good job, seems like you use vjass even for something as simple as hint display.

Infact, I hardly experience any lag at single player compare to the other Green Circle TD I ever play.

Description - Well describe both in site and map although there is a lot of typo errors. However, a quest log could help user even more.

Add a quest log such as telling user how to use -wave, -immune, -air and etc etc so it would be better than a hint that show random tips every 2 minutes.

Bugs - Air Tower hotkey "A" clash with attack hotkey. Sell structure ability does not have any hotkey. Speed tower and damage tower upgrade tooltips does not show any hotkey.

Suggestion - Don't use different colour for tooltips. It was very difficult to seen which is hotkey and which it isn't. For example, chaos tower tooltips was in yellow colour while the hotkey is in orange-yellow makes it difficult to be view.

Also, use U as the upgrade hotkey. It is better than having each tower with different hotkey upgrade.

Enable user to have more than 800 gold at hard/insane mode if they are playing alone. I kinda loves to play Green Circle TD alone by covering the entire spawn point, but 800 gold doesn't permit me to cover the entire lane.

Normal mode should be rename as Easy mode, it was way too easy to be consider as normal. However, I was playing alone; so alone might be easier than playing as team.

https://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin.php?id=idaojv

Take a look at the replay to see how easy it was.

Overall, the hotkey and tooltips need to be fix. Apart from that, it was the most lagless and bug free Green Circle TD I ever play soo far.

For those who want to play a green circle td that show little to almost no lag at all, this td definitely the best choice for you.

I cannot said anything regarding the balance issue since I only play normal mode. Overall, my rating is 4/5 (Recommend).

This is also a fine example of a map with a effecient coding, where all beginner in map making could learn from it.

 

[T-s-G]

CIRCLE TD? xD
Square TD wud fit way better xD

 

[Dr Super Good]

Thanks for pointing out the Air tower hotkey bug, its obvious that was inherit and I did not notice it lol.
All towers should show and have hotkeys, not seeing them is probably due to poor colour contrast on the display but yes, the chaos and destruction ones are hardish to see. I may remove the colour from them, I only had them because the orignals did.

Also, use U as the upgrade hotkey. It is better than having each tower with different hotkey upgrade.

Good idea, it will also fix a lot of the problem with seeing the tooltips.

Enable user to have more than 800 gold at hard/insane mode if they are playing alone. I kinda loves to play Green Circle TD alone by covering the entire spawn point, but 800 gold doesn't permit me to cover the entire lane.

Was planning that there was a global pool of 6400 gold at the start, which is divided equally amongst the players who are present.

Add a quest log such as telling user how to use -wave, -immune, -air and etc etc so it would be better than a hint that show random tips every 2 minutes.

Good idea, I also will rework the hint system to reduce repetition of hints.

Normal mode should be rename as Easy mode, it was way too easy to be consider as normal. However, I was playing alone; so alone might be easier than playing as team.

Again, this is inherit from the map I based it on, where those were the names given for the difficulties. However the system is made so that adjusting the names is easy.

Sell structure ability does not have any hotkey.

I especially did this, to prevent accidental sales of towers which once happened to me and I do not plan to add a hotkey. I however am planning to add eventually the ability to "phase" a tower which will have a hotkey and it will equivently sell the tower but the tower will exist in an inactive state allowing you to build another tower and reactivate it later (ofcourse only with the needed funding) allowing for better user of tower type during rounds.

The only reason the other were hard was because they used to overload the pathing system and so you could lose just with the spawns between point and corner.

I also may add an auto teleport system for the workers to allow for better single player gamming.

 

[Septimus]

Good idea, it will also fix a lot of the problem with seeing the tooltips.

Actually, according to blizzard standard. "U" is the hotkey for tower upgrade.

 

[Dr Super Good]

UPDATE. . .
I hope you enjoy the new content I added and the fixes I made.

 

[Septimus]

Insane mode isn't too balance for single player, I was defeated at level 5 due to the lack of resources.

https://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin.php?id=mi8ces

 

[Dr Super Good]

The same recources are available in multiplayer, thus you porbably have proved that it is impossiable to win currently.

I will increase the cost of aura towers greatly as currently they are far too cheap for their effect late game (90% more shots doing 90% more damage over doubles the power of a tower yet cost in total a lot less than the final upgrade).
Secondly I will adjust wave 4 or 5 a bit, as it seems even on easy that it hickups there a bit difficulty wise.
I also need to make midgame waves harder and weacon the first boss round.
Finally I need to make the final wave tougher, probably by makinging them immune to slow.

But honestly, it is hard to improve a map with so little feedback help, 131 downloads and only 1 person has actually been giving me helpful feedback.

 

[Septimus]

insane mode suppose to be possible as well, making it impossible beat the purpose of it.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Update

It is not meant to be impossiable (it is meant to be doable), just the ballence needs quite a lot of work.

Anyway, new version is out. There has been quite a number of changes which I hope people enjoy. I still need to add another ability to the summoners thoe.

For the note, incase you wander what happened to 1.7, there was a major game breaking glitch resulting in aura towers not affecting the towers. Only a hand full of people were affected by this broken version but luckilly this has been resolved in 1.7.1.

 

[Helheim]

Dunno why you call it circle - it looks more like square ^^

 

[Septimus]

did you fix the balance? XD

 

[Dr Super Good]

Well I have tried....
Its very hard having to guess what is ballenced or not due to lack of people actually playing it.

 

[1)ark_NiTe]

I'll try it out in a bit DSG.

 

[dansaDisco]

Tried it out, 2 games.

First of all, poison is way to OP until the very-late game.

Just poison and ice tower will get you extremely far in the game.

Also, we had a number of 900 invaders, we didn't get any loose message and kept playing until it was under 700 again.

Siege is to weak as well.

Other than that, I love that it doesn't lag a lot like all the other versions. But it becomes boring when you can just rush a lvl 8 poison tower and then idle for half of the game.'

(we played on normal difficulty btw)

And well, the infernal boss round was extremely tough, if you didn't have a chaos tower maxed out by the, basically you couldn't kill a single one.

 

[1)ark_NiTe]

Yeah I told you this on b.net but I think you were afk. It didn't lag for me hardly any until the last 4 rounds of the game. It was pretty bad too and I have 2G RAM and a Radeon ATI Mobility x1400 graphics card.

Also, we never got defeated with at least 700 units at the end of the round.

 

[Dr Super Good]

The defeat system is working perfectly and as attended. Basically if you read carefully your loss condition is having 700 units as the end or start of a round. The round only ends when the next round begins. Thus on easy and normal difficulties there is a delay (of 7.5 and 5 seconds) after the spawning ends during which you have to oppitunity to reduce the number before the defeat check which often happens to reduce it below 700 so you are not defeated. However on hard difficulty no such delay exists so as soon as spawning stops you would get defeated. This is entirly intentional and was made to be part of the difficulty system so that it is noticably easier on lower difficulties, however I will probably adjust the timing system in a future version down to 5 and 2.5 respectivly.

I will check this tomorow with the optimized version to make sure, as it definatly is working in the unoptimized open source version.

Thankyou for pointing out that you actually won normal. I was not too sure if it was even winable as a lot of the modifications I made were purly theorietical. I have however noticed that easy difficulty is far too easy, thus I will be making changes to improve the overall difficulty of easy mode and probably hard mode.

I to have noticed that poison towers seem a tad too strong. My aim currently is to make it so that poison towers are more effective against low spawn number waves and lose effictiveness against high spawn number waves as is visable early on but late game they attack so fast it does not really mater. The poison tower damage has remained unaltered since the version I based it on, which shows the flaws with green circle TDs in general.

Seige towers are not as weak as you may think as they deal their damage to each unit they hit in their AOE so late game can easilly deal more damage than poision towers. However early game i have noticed them being too weak, thus I will probably reduce their final AoE, increase their initial AoE and improve initial damage per gold efficency generally buffing them early on.

For some reason I have noticed the air waves behaving oddly and causing lag because they push each other when they come to a stop, I will try and work on a work around, even if it means making them floating ground units which are targeted as if they were air.

I also plan on adding a negative aura tower chain to the aura tower base to replace the one lost when I fused the two functionalities into one. What I plan this aura to do is emit a speed and armor reducing aura to nearby enemies. The armor will probably end up reducing by quite a large fixed quantity, making it handy against armored rounds while the speed will also improve the number of hits you can get per unit (ofcourse speed does not work on slow immune but unlike frost will affect immunes). To do this I will adjust the slow rate each source gives, so frost towers give the largest ammount of slow, followed by poison towers as they are single target folowed by the negative aura as they will always be in affect. A rough guess on values would probably be 40% for frost, 30% for poison and atmost 20% for the slow part of the negative aura tower allowing a grand slow total of 90% per unit capped at a minimum speed of 70 odd movement speed (as apposed to 45 for both poison and frost as it is currently).

The infernal wave is a boss so is meant to be hard to kill so should leak atleast once, however it is too close I found to other very tough waves so some changes may occur in that area.

Currently my aim is to make it so that on a difficulty matching player skill, atleast a few units should leak on some rounds. Armored or extra tough waves are meant to be hard to kill but low in number, so that they leak the first time round but circle for a while, making you more voundrable to faster spawning waves in an attempt to defeat you. No armored or extra tough wave will ever spawn over 700 units so leaking with them can be annoying but not gamebreaking. This is meant to add more challenge to the game, as what is the pont in letting them circle if you never leaking any into the circle. Most circle TDs I have played pretty much instantly defeat you if any get into the circle as the pathing overloads and the game ends as all units come to a stop and near instantly over 700 spawn, usually this occurs on the banshee wave and results in a lose due to flawed game mechanics rather than player skill.

I however will be considering a new defeat system alltogether inspired by the orignal. Whereby you are defeated if you runout of control or dominance. In this system control or dominance would be a value which decreases based on the length of time and number of units that are currently out. If it reaches 0 you lose. When few units are out it will regenerate, when many are out it depleashes. Using such a system as this it would allow for me to make other factors like buildings to more easilly affect the win lose system in a ballencable way. However I do not recon I will add this any time soon.

These all are ideas that I have so may or may not be done in a possiable next version. You however are entirly free to give any feedback or sujestions on them.

Edit for darknite, The graphic lag is a problem I have noticed, and it is related to the number of special effects and the complexity of some of the hero units. I will probably alter some of the effects used to be less laggy and change some rounds to simlar but less demanding units.

 

[Kampfhamster]

i think too it is a bit too easy... but i think it makes a lot off fun!

 

[Dr Super Good]

New version is out.
Now with ultra pro support, a fourth harder difficulty.

There may be a bug with the end game trigger, where the message does not appear correctly. I will look into it eventually.

And this proves any people wrong who thought this was a dead map.

 

[Vulcano]

1 thing I don't understand is, why they call it circle TD.

I would try to review it ASAP.

Square TD sounds a lot cooler indeed.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Green Square TD...... Hmmm it may be crazy enough to become popular!

 

[azalgath]

All right, this map is looking good now.

I'm glad the final wave finally got some more spawns, it seemed a bit pointless having less than 700 spawn since the previous wave is easy if you have a maxed out air tower.

Here's some very important criticism:

- Unsatisifactory ending; The game just ends while you're still fighting the reverants. At
the very least, don't force end the game. So when you're playing with other people you can chat about how great you were

- Middle game too easy; The start is great, the end gets you really close to leaking, the middle is boring. Either weaken the middle game towers, or strengthen the creeps. Maybe add hero creeps with aura's so that the creeps are hard to kill until the hero falls (That should help get some minor leaks to keep the game more exciting).

- Single player easy to normal difficutly curve; Being forced to have all spawns open makes it a lot harder first time you play. A 'custom' difficutly would be cool, were you can pick which spawns are active, how long between each wave and maybe some other special options such as starting gold.

Hmm, I guess that's everything.

I've attached my replay (Single Player - Insane) so you can see how I play.
I don't use chaos towers or ice towers at all xD

Keep up the good work, and looking foward to a new version.

 

[lulol]

I think your map was based on this :
https://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps-564/green-circle-td-v-3-1-a-80821/?prev=search%3Dgreen%2520circle%2520TD%26d%3Dlist%26r%3D20
If i remember right it was the first Green Circle with this form.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Mine was based on one of the crappy modified versions of the orignal base but I deleted all the junk from it that was usless. It is also a prety large modification with most triggers having been redone and a lot of the towers edited.

It could quite possibly have orignated from those versions of this type of map thus I acknowledge giving some credit to the orignal makers. Just this particular version was based on one of those rips of a rip of a rip..... of the orignal so the actual map probably should have multiple credits given as I am sure that map did not feature all the ideas this version expresses that were modifications of the existing ideas in the map I edited.

I counclude by thanking the people who made the orignal.

 

[hit]

Okay for people who thought who called it Green Circle TD, it's me. Jared allow me to use some of his stuff on one other green TD map (towers, etc.) and then I designed the TD with idea of creating a Circle TD (I love circle TD) and he helps me a lot or testing, triggers, english, etc. (nearly forget )
But it's good to see that on Hiveworkshop all the mod ver are good my version had a lot of bugs, etc.

In attachment the first version for proval with bugs, fast created trigger , etc.

 

[Bond009]

Is this the "now-a-days" main legit version thats sometimes hosted on bnet? I havent played Green TDs much but my friend use to love this if this is the one

 

[Dr Super Good]

Naaa, this version never became mainstream despite being the most pollished looking of all the thousands of versions people made. I was just some crazy map maker trying to get people to rip a good map instead of compounding bad changes ontop of each other.

 

[_lycan]

One word . awesome map , you sir are the first one who made a balanced Td

 

[Dr Super Good]

Its hardly ballenced as I had no idea where to take the ballence. I purly aimed at removing the stupid crap like killer ninja kirbys (yes the base version I used had those...) and improving map performance.

 

[Marc Mamales]

nice map

 

[Craphter]

Hmm, I can't open it with World Editor.
Are you sure it's open source?

 

[Dr Super Good]

It requires JassNewGenerationPack (available at Warcraft 3 Campaigns website). The map resource is optimized so can not be edited but an open source version of the map is attached to the first comment. Use the source for the version with the highest number.

 

[bhusta]

If you would ever like to update this map, here is a video of the last funmap evening where we played your map.

https://youtu.be/OfQqNdGJdVc?t=30m32s

As you can see we had really good chances to beat this level but the gargoyles just stacked and we lost instantly.

 

[Dr Super Good]

I never entirely balanced the map. I tried but in retrospect I did so many things wrong (crap tooltips, bad design etc). I blame inexperience and young age sigh.

The wave was not that difficult, even on high difficulties. You just needed to employ tower swapping (sell towers and use the refund to build what you need) so you can handle it as it happens. As some guy mentioned, even hardest mode could be soloed.

Keep in mind that at least it was designed to be reasonable. The original Green Circle TD versions had an impossible Banshee wave where so many spawned so fast that if they hit the first bend you instantly lost.

In the end my intention was to show people that even the most poorly designed map has potential if people bother. I hope it inspired a few mappers to not just add rigged stuff into maps, as was the fashion of the time.

 

[bhusta]

Or you could just turn off the unit collision of gargs.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Or you could just turn off the unit collision of gargs.

They are air units so do not have collision while moving? Their collision is already 0...

This is most strange indeed as I tested the map extensively at the time and had no issue running 700 units around the circle with continuous movement.

I think patch 1.26a broke it... Seeing as how I made the map in 2009 with 1.26a coming out in 2011 it is possible that the patch altered something with movement as a "hidden change".

For air waves you had to move your AA and frost towers forward to kill them as they spawned. Unlike most Circle TD maps you could have them at the first bend instead of right against the spawner.

 

[deepstrasz]

Sometimes when building/summoning, the builder/summonr constantly blinks to the build location and you have to use the stop command to make the unit cease.

Destruction Tower 5: Pit Lord's attack looks like Pheonix Fire but it comes from somewhere out of the screen, the projectile.

Does the Command Centre even help with anything?

 

[Dr Super Good]

If that is all that is wrong with this map after 10 years, I am actually impressed lol.

1.31 or 1.32 beta?

 

[deepstrasz]

If that is all that is wrong with this map after 10 years, I am actually impressed lol.

1.31 or 1.32 beta?

1.31.1. I don't review maps on unstable versions. Not that 1.31.1 is too stable, lol.