Get started

[DarkAngelAzazel]

I think we finally got a nice story which is more or less unique till now.

Now we need to get started somehow.
I believe its the best if we make a map of the land how it is supposed to look later.

e.g.

In the middle will be the town.
Around the town wll be a wide circle area with 4 different elements.

Then there are ways to the 4 lands. Fire, water, earth, wood (if we stay with the old ones)

It's just a fast paint drawing.

We should divide the areas so everyone takes 1 and briefly draws a map of his ideas. (I suggest doing it with pen and paper and then scanning it.. paint is a pain in the ass. although the new win 7 one is actually quiet nice)

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

paint is a pain in the ass.

Gimp much?

Well you want to try and change up the themes a little? I think the Fire and Water theme are fine, but what about if we change up the Wood and Earth themes a bit (and Wood always seems to be the first dungeon in most recent Tloz games so the theme is starting to get kinda old).

Hmmmm, an Air temple could be interesting done right (hard to terrain but it seems to be a theme thats more or less left out in most of them (though the one from TP was pretty awesome).)

 

[Sabertooth]

Order:
Forest
Water
Fire
Air
--------------
That seems to work, but what about the secondary dungeon themes? These don't need to be element based, keep in mind. But if we would rather use an air themed dungeon for LATER in the game (Minish Cap and TP do this, for example), we may need to resort to Earth as the fourth primary theme.

 

[DarkAngelAzazel]

I believe Air should be no problem. With some fog looking as clouds it should be easy to make.

 

[Sabertooth]

Could also use the alpha (invisible) tile coupled with fog and those sky spheres (check UTM). I would, ofc, call dibs on terraining it, though!

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Could also use the alpha (invisible) tile coupled with fog and those sky spheres (check UTM). I would, ofc, call dibs on terraining it, though!

Damn lol, guess I'll call dibs on Water

 

[Gallin]

Why don't you use sets of threes instead of the 4 maybe incorporate the triforce a little more.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Well it's set in Termina, so the Tri Force isn't really of much importance there - the Tri Force is connected with Hyrule in all the stories, putting it in Termina wouldn't make much sense.

 

[Sabertooth]

The triforce does not exist in Termina.

Wolf, let us know when you get a basic system down. No point in worrying about other stuff until we have a fairly decent foundation.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

K, a while ago a map I started had a lot of the things that would be necessary in this - let me see about adding some stuff to that.

 

[DarkAngelAzazel]

Well what is the "basic" system for you? I can create 20 maps and link them with gamecaches, so that link can travel between them.
Is that the basic system?

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Well I didn't touch caches yet, but I had other things like Pushing objects (with tile friction - hadn't added things like downhill velocity (not sure exactly how to start on that), Pulling Objects, Camera lock upon entering a room (for certain rooms where the camera needs to be at the most useful point), Keyboard movement and all those sorts of things.

 

[Sabertooth]

Keyboard movement will be iffy. And if it's going to be like old-school LoZ, don't worry about 'downhill velocity' because it wasn't implemented. Nor would it (nor should it) have any big effects. You don't need a super-advanced physics system for LoZ.

I'm not going to start terraining until:
1. I get an okay to start on something.
2. We have a concrete progression plan semi-laid out.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

And if it's going to be like old-school LoZ, don't worry about 'downhill velocity' because it wasn't implemented

Idk, that kinda strikes me as ify with the whole old-school thing. We're using a 3d engine here with 3d models, those a traditional top down view is going to look awkward as the models aren't sprites designed to be viewed from top down.

 

[Sabertooth]

Eh, valid point.
But, regardless of that point, that doesn't mean that we have to implement a fancy physics system, =P.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

lol, well I guess we should decide how we want to do this.
There's been a few perspectives throughout the Zelda games:
-OoT, Majora's Mask, TP, etc. etc. all used a third person camera that normally followed the player pretty closely
-The 2d ones all used a top down - this probably isn't the best in that we're using a 3d engine
-the DS one's used a perspective thats not exactly top down but similar - this gave it a slight feel similar to the originals but allowed for things like height in the puzzles.

I would say either the OoT way or the DS way:
-OoT is a bit more epic and allows you to appreciate the terrain more along with puzzle implementations
-the DS way allows for a more traditional view - but if you played the DS games you see that its not exactly as involved nor does the games terrain look all the impressive from that view. One thing is that this was necessary for the way the game is played so this may not be useful to us.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

I do think I can make projectiles stay at normal height if fired off a cliff (gravity need or not?) since thats just accounting for the Z height and the height of the projectiles.

 

[DarkAngelAzazel]

We need a Z height for projectiles.

Just think the about the riddles of shooting eyes from cliffs.
All those must be possible.

So we will need a custom missle system.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Yeah - here's what I'm thinking for Missiles staying with Zs - correct me if I'm wrong:

Units have a flying height and a "normal" height - to get the normal height add the units flying height to the Z at the location the unit is at (assuming they use the same units). This normal height constantly changes because the units flying height is added to changing terrain - making it act like a wave in the water approaching a beach - the flying height never changes, just the Z.

IF you could set a specific "normal" height using a variable that you'd like the unit to stay at, then to keep it at that you would simply check the Z of the location the unit is at and subtract that from the normal height - the left over would be the necessary flying height to keep the height steady - which you constantly set it to. IF the value turns out to be negative (meaning the Z is higher then the normal height) then the Unit would run into the wall, thus stopping its flight.

 

[Sabertooth]

Hey, do whatever you need to do to make it work. You're in charge of the whole project, let alone scripting, after all.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

I have not forgotten this - just have a few large exams this week thus I haven't gotten anything done.

Sorry for the lack of things posted here

 

[Sabertooth]

No biggie. I'm working ok Trellenwood anyway.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

I'm going to get started on the projectile system tonight

 

[Sabertooth]

Still bogged down with school?

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Yes - school is almost out so we can begin soon

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

FINALLY - School just ended today - got senior pictures tomorrow, but I'm planning on getting started on the necessary systems

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin.php?id=4im2f2

Ok, here's the old project I've mentioned had a lot of the necessary systems done - this was what I was working on for the solo mapping competition but never finished.

Some of the systems in it require JNG, but they are all of my design, I did not use anyone elses systems. That being said, it's not perfect but it works (never finished making the pathing for movement well so you just kinda slide when you walk into a wall, you just kinda slide next to it).

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Ok what is has:
-Keyboard movement
-Some camera stuff in it - walk into the main hall to get it to the normal cam, I'm not sure whether or not I reset this right when I started testing other things
-Pushing and Pulling movable objects with floor switches - I was testing pushing when I stopped working on it - pulling is simple, while pushing an object takes into account things like friction of the tiles it's on.

For the art style of the water temple I'd like to do something like I had started here - if you want, we can use this as a starting point for the water temple too.


I'm currently working on the system for projectiles (like arrows)

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Projectiles

Well this is still WiP, but here's what I have for projectiles so far.
The keyboard controls in this map aren't perfect as I made them pretty quickly, but the main focus in this is the projectiles.

K, the projectiles move regardless of the terrain under them and die once they hit walls.
The different rooms are for testing different things, like blizz cliff colision, non blizz, etc. etc.

I also threw in a few other more fun things in there, like things that change the facing of the arrows, target practice, an arrow splitter thing.

Added a scope thing in there - currently the filter is pretty ugly, a more appropriate scope may be in order.

Now the question is, should I allow you to fire arrows at an angle? Currently they only fire horizontally, but It is entirely possible to add shooting at angles.

I don't think making the arrows Arc is necessary though.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

hehe - all these updates feel like spamming to me

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

K, got horizontal angles working with arrows (haven't updated it in the post with the system yet though)

Now I'm working on adding bombs and their arc style movement.

We should probably get the item ideas ready for the game so I can make them now:

What we have so far:
-Sword
-Bombs
-Arrows

These are necessary - but now for the creative stuff - what additional weapons should we add to the game?

 

[Gyrosphinx]

The Hookshot! Definately!

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

hmmm shouldn't be that hard - it's like doing the same thing with the Arrows just with the person. I guess I would make it shoot out a guide dummy, and if it hits a surface it can attach to it pulls you.

So:
-Sword
-Shield
-Bombs
-Arrows

Dungeon Acquired Items:
-Hookshot


Ok, we should also come up with new items too:

A few Ideas:
-Teleport Ring - allows you to make a teleport point and then teleport back to it using the ring (use it once, then use it again to teleport back)
-Magic Boomerang - I already made a spell that does this - basically you lay out a path and the boomerang follows it
-Anti-Gravity bomb - reverse gravity when it explodes sending things flying up for a few seconds, or pulling things down that are already reversed in gravity.


Also should we add jumping in the game?

 

[Gyrosphinx]

Yep, awesome ideas you got there. The Hookshot might be done like they did it in Pudgewars I believe. Jumping we need!

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

I never played Pudgewars, but I'm going to make the hookshot work on multiple altitudes, sort of like how I got arrows working that way too.

Oh, here's the updated Arrows
Arrows

Started on bombs but they don't do anything yet

After using "prepare bow" hit "Free aim" to be able to aim up and down
Scope still works in it too.

Just don't exit out of "prepare bow" without turning off "Free aim" and "Scope" of it messes with the camera
If you do, just enter bow again and then turn them off

 

[Gyrosphinx]

I tested it out, it works pretty good, but we need like a crosshair or something, Aiming was quite hard compared to how it was in OOT, but hell, it is wc3! The system was pretty smooth and well executed. The arrows moved abit slow though. when it comes to movement, it was all smooth and perfect, except for when hitting the corners of those fugly blizzard cliffs. I suggest we do not use blizz cliffs in the actual map.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

-Well I was just using in game things, we can get a better reticule filter for that
-Type ! and a number (like ! 50) to change the speed - note that it calculates the angle based on the speed so if you set it to 0 and then fire a bunch up, then set it to 99 they will all move straight.
-Well Blizz cliffs used right work, and that terrain was just slapped together quickly for this - in certain situations they work well. And I've noticed the arrows move oddly when moving over water too, I'll iron those out later.

Notice that the higher the ! value is, the more distance the arrow is moved in .03 seconds, thus if you set it to max (99) then it doesn't respond as well to things like cliffs, at max value it will go up to the top of the wall before dying (hence look ugly).

 

[Gyrosphinx]

Aha, ok, all in all you've done a good job. I'm not the right guy to comment the actuall scripting, I know absolutely nothing about that stuff.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Thanks, most of the scripting I've done is leakless - I know it's not perfect but mainly I just make sure that I avoid errors that add up over time.

(Well I mainly kept the script that actually matters leakless, things like the random targets and such I don't really care about cleaning up as their just for testing)

 

[Gyrosphinx]

Yessirr!

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

You have anything you can work on while I'm doing this stuff?

 

[Gyrosphinx]

I can try to make some story concepts, if they're still needed.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Well in Majora's Mask they had a bunch of optional subplots to the game, do you want to have that sort of thing in ours too?

 

[DarkAngelAzazel]

Those are not the primary goal.
After we have finished the main story we can add sub quests in every new version.
Maybe we can also add some eastereggs :/ e.g. a trip to the mushroom kingdom

 

[pkw]

Just tell me if I can help in any animations =3
or any model that causes problems ^^

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Soon enough, once we get the systems done we can get to some actual work

 

[Yabooer]

Yes, I loved the side missions for the masks, made it a lot more fun. Also add those mini games for the hearts, rupees, and upgrades. (Archery Shop was the bigger quiver)

 

[Gyrosphinx]

Well, I'm cleaning my Hard Drive, and I found a particular file:

"One Hundred years have passed since the Hero of the Other World came to Termina and saved it from destruction. One Hundred years of peace. But now, in the dark ruins of Ikana, a new darkness is on the rise, threatening the safety of all the Terminian people. There is hope however, as the Hero, prophesied by the Gorons to save all Termina, have been born in Romani Village."

It is the first few lines I wrote when I started thinking of a backstory. It is based mostly around Ikana, which is probably the place in Termina with the darkest history. This is not really well written, but it is an idea nonetheless.

Also, I'm working on some attachements...

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

I'm working on bombs at the moment.
The annoying thing about these is that they use Parabolic movement when thrown, thus I need to use x^2 to get their motion. Well x^2 is the exact opposite motion I want (that's an upside down curve), thus I have to use -x^2 - well that would work if all values became negative so you have to account for the change and add a number to it to get all the values at the correct height, which I'm currently working on finding a method to do so.

 

[Gyrosphinx]

That's all technobabble to me, but it sounds important

What do you think of the stuff I found?