- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
- Messages
- 11
I've recently had the idea of makeing a map based of the game The Guild 2
i wouldn't say it was a main stream game, but i found it compairable to a builsness sim + the Sims. for you that haven't played it, basicly you made a guy like in a rpg. name looks skills. then your droped off in a town with a bag of gold, the objective, to buy a buisness your skills are suited to and compete in the local market of that town. court a wife and start a family. you can participate in politics and if theres no goals set, you can just keep playing over generations untill the game crashed from its unstableness.
I haven't start creating the map, and would like help from anyone interested, also i hope to bounce idea's off people here in this thread. I have no skill at modeling or skinning, animations or scripting so the best i can do is a basic map and hope to find help here in those areas.
current ideas
the map should have 3 towns (in the game the towns grow periodicly based off the townhalls gold supply i beleave, normaly a healthy town economy will speed along its growth. the town's political positions also grow with each stage.) I guess i can make some simple triggers that look for the towns economic healther vers a timer to trigger an expansion but i dont know how to make buildings randomly spawn in areas or have roads spread around. simply becuase the players can build shops and houses anywhere and that makes preplaned city expansion triggers imposible for me.
npc's. (in the game, the towns are populated by npc's. all the npc's that dont own a buisness live in worker houses, normaly all your employess live in these communial houseing, useally theres afew worker houses around that 15 or so npc's come walking out in the morning and into at night. shop owners have their own houses like the players and compete for political positions. the AI for them is fairly basic, meny of them will stop by at the tavern at night and church. town guards patrol roads around valuable shops to prevent theives.)
I have no experience at creating AI, or do i really understand how wc3 AI works, but the map will be very simple guards patroling stretches of road and npc's just standing outside their shops. in the political arena, npc's can be bribed when makeing votes, all npc's have bar that shows how much they like you, if your hated they vote against you and if they like you they vote for you.
Other AI (shops can be put on auto manage, witch is a feature this game could do without and still be good. but basicly the shop is handed to the computer and it runs your cart to the market and picks up supplys and brings it back and processes them into goods and takes those goods to market to sell, you can set afew basic options like don't sell under 50% to 100% value, only sell in local town or sell in any town, and if the shop can hire new workers (workers die of old age, or maybe you just want the shop running under 100% efficency.)
Shops, I'm not really sure how to go about makeing the shops in wc3. i'm willing to do the work since im sure its just modifying atributes of things in the GUI editor, just need someone to explain to me a way of makeing them.
There are meny shops broken down into classes, scholar, rouge, craftsmen, patron. Scholar shops are churches, hospitals, magic shop, alchemy shop. Rouge shops are alittle diffrent since they don't make anything, Theives den, Highway camp. Craftsmen shops are Tailor, blacksmith, carpenter, mineing camp, lumber yard. Patron shops are Tavern, bakery, fishery, farm. I may have forgot afew, just wanted to hit the basics, each shop has 3 levels, some split like blacksmith can become a jewler or weaponsmith then on up to armor smith and goldsmith. All shops have upgrades along with their teir upgrade, you can upgrade your employee cap, the items you can create there, invitory space, and production efficency. all shops except reasource gathering shops like farms, lumber yards, and theives/highway dens, need reasources to produce something, like your cart runs to the market, and you buy 20 ingots of iron and 20 boards of maple and bring it back to your blacksmith, then you grab your workers, probably yourself too though not required, and tell them to start makeing construction materials, and they spend all day at it, or untill you run out of materials required to make them. the raw materials and the finnished goods all sit in the invitory witch is between 4-16 slots, every shop has 4 sales slots, where window shopers can come and buy things directly from the store at face value + your characters barder skill modifyer. Normaly you easily outproduce the towns needs and build up a stockpile, place the goods on your cart and take them to market to sell at what ever you can get, the market normaly buys them from you at 50%-150% their value, based on supply and demand. if you unload 20 swords that sell 1 a day, then the next day if you show up with another 20, the market will only pay 50% for them. so you can make the trip to other towns, normaly 3 to a map. and sell your swords there assumeing you get past any highway men that lurk around the trade routes.
Family, this is parcialy a npc subject, when you start the game your solo, but you want to quickly get a wife since she can own a store and you can play her though im not sure how the mechanics will work in a wc3 system, in the game you select between them for witch one you control where in wc3 you can drag and select them all at once. but thats how you start your dynasty, wife and children. Also its the only way to cross into other fields of shops. when your character is a patron class, you cant buy or build craftsmen buildings, but you can inherit them, also you can marry a craftswoman and she can buy or build a shop in that class for the dynasty though she will be controling it and its productivity and level caps are tied to her's. Children grow into adults over time and eventualy replace your orginal guy or girl as the main playable character, as they grow up you are give opertunitys to send them to school and later apprenticships at a shop somewhere on the map, school useally boosts afew skills of theirs by 1, and the apprenticship decides their class and also boosts the class skills by 2 or 3 randomly. the parents have their combined skills added and divided by 2 and given to the child, so later in the game your kids start off with far better skills then you began the game with allowing them over their life time reach higher levels and have more skills.
Illness, Implemented pretty much only to creat a demand for hospitals, illnesses pretty much randomly affect npc's and players at any time, the games illnesses are pretty strange, like the pleague hitting people and cured with pain killers, so i'd probably come up with more reasonable illnesses but the random affliction hitting people and npc's ( also an AI problem, since the NPC's will skip afterwork activitys like church or tavern to go to the hospital, where players can either sleep it off at home, loseing production time but saveing money or heading to the hospital at their lessure.) is the area i need help with.
Models, i have no experience with modeling or skinning. as this map progresses i will have a list of afew things that i'd like to have modeled if anyone is willing to help with that, probably just afew unique buildings and shop carts.
Market, I have no experience with jass and can make pretty basic triggers with single varibles in the gui so if left by myself i can maybe make something simple to fill this need, but i'd like some help or an experienced person to hit with ideas. The market system is fairly large, 3 markets are on a map at each town, each town eats up a small bit of the current stock each day, and the market will buy and sell items based on supply and demand. towns have 3 stages, and items have catigories. like Poor people demand this, and rich people demand this, where in a small town swords wont sell, in a capital city they sell commonly. also if your selling goods directly from your shop, if the market is selling the same goods at a cheaper price your shop front will sell fewer items, sometimes none, where you could sell out your entire stock if the market is paying top dollar for the same goods. ( your shop's sales invitory only sells at base value + barter skill)
Politics, i really don't have any ideas on how to add this to a wc3 map, how it works in the game however is pretty simple, every day at night, around 18:00. the townhall closes for its session, they dont vote on anything important, they just re-elect office seats, you have to apply for a seat your able to compete for the previous day, some seats require that you hold the seat below it and have a title of nobility. the mayor annonces the seat in contest, and whos running for it, then who's allowed to vote. normaly the people in the teir above the seat in contest plus the mayor himself. so you look at the people voteing and see how much they like you since thats pretty much the only factor for their vote, to effect their "i like you bar" you can use social skills based on your retoric skill to breifly talk to them and make them like you more, or simply bribe them with money, everyone in the room pretty much notices this and its a petty crime, do enouph bribes though and you could get in alittle trouble with the court. When you hold office, nothing is required of you other then being at the townhall every night at 18:00 even if your voteing on nothing. Except if your the judge, who has to show up at the townhall for every court hearing. Holding office may also grant you abilitys like if your the town guard captain, then you can command guards to patrol where you want them to. or if your the merchant guilds representitive, then you can order buisness searches. town mayors can excile people and embezzle money. the 2 highest tiers usally have court immunitys.
Courts, another system im not really sure how to add, is Crime and courts. you can steal, murder, set buildings on fire, use illegal items like stink bombs or poisons. if someone sees you doing these things, often seen by passing npc's that are constantly moveing about town or cart pushers. town guards will get involved if they see you doing something illegal, npc's just spred around rummors about what you've done. if you wish to collect information on someone, you can "ask around" where you or a body guard (hired from your house not shops) walks around the market asking people about the person your interested in, if you talk to someone thats seen a crime they did or heard about it from another npc, takes afew days for that to spred around as rummor. but its broken into strength as evidence, if you hear it from an eye witness then its 100%. rummors start at 75%-25% depending on how meny saw it happen vers how long ago it happened. 25% can be either a distant crime bearly remembered as rummor, or a recent event that only 1 or 2 npc's saw. where a high profile crime like a kidnaping in daylight outside a tavern would have been seen by alot of people and would be a 75% if not 100% if you find an eye witness. So you collect information and the crims are saved in your journal and all the stengths are there. and if you wish to press charges you go to the town hall and ask for a court hearing. at court you present all the crimes you have strengths for, starting with the highest ones, only 3 count, so you try to get 3 100% strength ones. depending on how much the judge likes you vers the defendant and your retoric skill vers the defendant's. is the effect each 100% has on a bar that spans sevral punishments. Fine>>>Loss>>>Stockade>>>large fine>>>jail>>>death. i think thats the whole bar. and each crime you present with the modifiers i said will move the bar closer to death, sometimes backwards if you present a low strength crime and the judge dosnt like you much. at the end of the crime list, the defendant speaks on his behalf, can either admit guilt, or deny guilt. if the strengths are against him and the judges dont like him much, and he denys guilt, theres a very good chance he'll move the bar forward a whole punishment level. his retoric skill affects his chances though, high retoric criminals sometimes can talk their way out of murder. if they admit guilt they have another retoric check, either the bar stays put, or goes down a whole level. at that point the accuser gets to make a choice, agree with the sentence as is, or push for it to be higher or lower. if they go lower, the judges will accept it, if your happy with the current sentence, then the judges vote, if you want a more harsh punishment, theres a retoric check and you may boost the bar forward a level or not. in the end the judges vote and the accuser and the defendant get to try to talk the judges into voteing guilty or not guilty, there are 3 judges, 1 is the town judge, 2 are npc's that got jurrey duty. if the defendant is not guilty then the accuser has to pay 500 gold for court costs and all the evidence is invalid, if he's found guilty by 3 of 3 votes, then the accusers punishment is accepted. Fine is around 10% of the defendants gold. loss is a title loss, stockade is the defendant is taken out of the court by guards and locked up in the stockade near the market for the rest of the day, large fine is around 30% gold, dungeon is 4 - 8 days in jail depending on the crimes, robbery isnt as bad as murders. death is where the guards take the defendant out to the choping block outside the market and publicly kill the person for his crime.
Time, the game runs in almost turns, you play a day from 0:00 to 23:59. and it counts for a whole year. the seaons change though i doubt i'll add that to the map. but becuase of the season change, the work hours change for the next day you play and some reasources can't be collected, alchemists need flowers that dont grow in winter, same with wheat and stuff. your age is also measured by the days you've gone threw.
i wouldn't say it was a main stream game, but i found it compairable to a builsness sim + the Sims. for you that haven't played it, basicly you made a guy like in a rpg. name looks skills. then your droped off in a town with a bag of gold, the objective, to buy a buisness your skills are suited to and compete in the local market of that town. court a wife and start a family. you can participate in politics and if theres no goals set, you can just keep playing over generations untill the game crashed from its unstableness.
I haven't start creating the map, and would like help from anyone interested, also i hope to bounce idea's off people here in this thread. I have no skill at modeling or skinning, animations or scripting so the best i can do is a basic map and hope to find help here in those areas.
current ideas
the map should have 3 towns (in the game the towns grow periodicly based off the townhalls gold supply i beleave, normaly a healthy town economy will speed along its growth. the town's political positions also grow with each stage.) I guess i can make some simple triggers that look for the towns economic healther vers a timer to trigger an expansion but i dont know how to make buildings randomly spawn in areas or have roads spread around. simply becuase the players can build shops and houses anywhere and that makes preplaned city expansion triggers imposible for me.
npc's. (in the game, the towns are populated by npc's. all the npc's that dont own a buisness live in worker houses, normaly all your employess live in these communial houseing, useally theres afew worker houses around that 15 or so npc's come walking out in the morning and into at night. shop owners have their own houses like the players and compete for political positions. the AI for them is fairly basic, meny of them will stop by at the tavern at night and church. town guards patrol roads around valuable shops to prevent theives.)
I have no experience at creating AI, or do i really understand how wc3 AI works, but the map will be very simple guards patroling stretches of road and npc's just standing outside their shops. in the political arena, npc's can be bribed when makeing votes, all npc's have bar that shows how much they like you, if your hated they vote against you and if they like you they vote for you.
Other AI (shops can be put on auto manage, witch is a feature this game could do without and still be good. but basicly the shop is handed to the computer and it runs your cart to the market and picks up supplys and brings it back and processes them into goods and takes those goods to market to sell, you can set afew basic options like don't sell under 50% to 100% value, only sell in local town or sell in any town, and if the shop can hire new workers (workers die of old age, or maybe you just want the shop running under 100% efficency.)
Shops, I'm not really sure how to go about makeing the shops in wc3. i'm willing to do the work since im sure its just modifying atributes of things in the GUI editor, just need someone to explain to me a way of makeing them.
There are meny shops broken down into classes, scholar, rouge, craftsmen, patron. Scholar shops are churches, hospitals, magic shop, alchemy shop. Rouge shops are alittle diffrent since they don't make anything, Theives den, Highway camp. Craftsmen shops are Tailor, blacksmith, carpenter, mineing camp, lumber yard. Patron shops are Tavern, bakery, fishery, farm. I may have forgot afew, just wanted to hit the basics, each shop has 3 levels, some split like blacksmith can become a jewler or weaponsmith then on up to armor smith and goldsmith. All shops have upgrades along with their teir upgrade, you can upgrade your employee cap, the items you can create there, invitory space, and production efficency. all shops except reasource gathering shops like farms, lumber yards, and theives/highway dens, need reasources to produce something, like your cart runs to the market, and you buy 20 ingots of iron and 20 boards of maple and bring it back to your blacksmith, then you grab your workers, probably yourself too though not required, and tell them to start makeing construction materials, and they spend all day at it, or untill you run out of materials required to make them. the raw materials and the finnished goods all sit in the invitory witch is between 4-16 slots, every shop has 4 sales slots, where window shopers can come and buy things directly from the store at face value + your characters barder skill modifyer. Normaly you easily outproduce the towns needs and build up a stockpile, place the goods on your cart and take them to market to sell at what ever you can get, the market normaly buys them from you at 50%-150% their value, based on supply and demand. if you unload 20 swords that sell 1 a day, then the next day if you show up with another 20, the market will only pay 50% for them. so you can make the trip to other towns, normaly 3 to a map. and sell your swords there assumeing you get past any highway men that lurk around the trade routes.
Family, this is parcialy a npc subject, when you start the game your solo, but you want to quickly get a wife since she can own a store and you can play her though im not sure how the mechanics will work in a wc3 system, in the game you select between them for witch one you control where in wc3 you can drag and select them all at once. but thats how you start your dynasty, wife and children. Also its the only way to cross into other fields of shops. when your character is a patron class, you cant buy or build craftsmen buildings, but you can inherit them, also you can marry a craftswoman and she can buy or build a shop in that class for the dynasty though she will be controling it and its productivity and level caps are tied to her's. Children grow into adults over time and eventualy replace your orginal guy or girl as the main playable character, as they grow up you are give opertunitys to send them to school and later apprenticships at a shop somewhere on the map, school useally boosts afew skills of theirs by 1, and the apprenticship decides their class and also boosts the class skills by 2 or 3 randomly. the parents have their combined skills added and divided by 2 and given to the child, so later in the game your kids start off with far better skills then you began the game with allowing them over their life time reach higher levels and have more skills.
Illness, Implemented pretty much only to creat a demand for hospitals, illnesses pretty much randomly affect npc's and players at any time, the games illnesses are pretty strange, like the pleague hitting people and cured with pain killers, so i'd probably come up with more reasonable illnesses but the random affliction hitting people and npc's ( also an AI problem, since the NPC's will skip afterwork activitys like church or tavern to go to the hospital, where players can either sleep it off at home, loseing production time but saveing money or heading to the hospital at their lessure.) is the area i need help with.
Models, i have no experience with modeling or skinning. as this map progresses i will have a list of afew things that i'd like to have modeled if anyone is willing to help with that, probably just afew unique buildings and shop carts.
Market, I have no experience with jass and can make pretty basic triggers with single varibles in the gui so if left by myself i can maybe make something simple to fill this need, but i'd like some help or an experienced person to hit with ideas. The market system is fairly large, 3 markets are on a map at each town, each town eats up a small bit of the current stock each day, and the market will buy and sell items based on supply and demand. towns have 3 stages, and items have catigories. like Poor people demand this, and rich people demand this, where in a small town swords wont sell, in a capital city they sell commonly. also if your selling goods directly from your shop, if the market is selling the same goods at a cheaper price your shop front will sell fewer items, sometimes none, where you could sell out your entire stock if the market is paying top dollar for the same goods. ( your shop's sales invitory only sells at base value + barter skill)
Politics, i really don't have any ideas on how to add this to a wc3 map, how it works in the game however is pretty simple, every day at night, around 18:00. the townhall closes for its session, they dont vote on anything important, they just re-elect office seats, you have to apply for a seat your able to compete for the previous day, some seats require that you hold the seat below it and have a title of nobility. the mayor annonces the seat in contest, and whos running for it, then who's allowed to vote. normaly the people in the teir above the seat in contest plus the mayor himself. so you look at the people voteing and see how much they like you since thats pretty much the only factor for their vote, to effect their "i like you bar" you can use social skills based on your retoric skill to breifly talk to them and make them like you more, or simply bribe them with money, everyone in the room pretty much notices this and its a petty crime, do enouph bribes though and you could get in alittle trouble with the court. When you hold office, nothing is required of you other then being at the townhall every night at 18:00 even if your voteing on nothing. Except if your the judge, who has to show up at the townhall for every court hearing. Holding office may also grant you abilitys like if your the town guard captain, then you can command guards to patrol where you want them to. or if your the merchant guilds representitive, then you can order buisness searches. town mayors can excile people and embezzle money. the 2 highest tiers usally have court immunitys.
Courts, another system im not really sure how to add, is Crime and courts. you can steal, murder, set buildings on fire, use illegal items like stink bombs or poisons. if someone sees you doing these things, often seen by passing npc's that are constantly moveing about town or cart pushers. town guards will get involved if they see you doing something illegal, npc's just spred around rummors about what you've done. if you wish to collect information on someone, you can "ask around" where you or a body guard (hired from your house not shops) walks around the market asking people about the person your interested in, if you talk to someone thats seen a crime they did or heard about it from another npc, takes afew days for that to spred around as rummor. but its broken into strength as evidence, if you hear it from an eye witness then its 100%. rummors start at 75%-25% depending on how meny saw it happen vers how long ago it happened. 25% can be either a distant crime bearly remembered as rummor, or a recent event that only 1 or 2 npc's saw. where a high profile crime like a kidnaping in daylight outside a tavern would have been seen by alot of people and would be a 75% if not 100% if you find an eye witness. So you collect information and the crims are saved in your journal and all the stengths are there. and if you wish to press charges you go to the town hall and ask for a court hearing. at court you present all the crimes you have strengths for, starting with the highest ones, only 3 count, so you try to get 3 100% strength ones. depending on how much the judge likes you vers the defendant and your retoric skill vers the defendant's. is the effect each 100% has on a bar that spans sevral punishments. Fine>>>Loss>>>Stockade>>>large fine>>>jail>>>death. i think thats the whole bar. and each crime you present with the modifiers i said will move the bar closer to death, sometimes backwards if you present a low strength crime and the judge dosnt like you much. at the end of the crime list, the defendant speaks on his behalf, can either admit guilt, or deny guilt. if the strengths are against him and the judges dont like him much, and he denys guilt, theres a very good chance he'll move the bar forward a whole punishment level. his retoric skill affects his chances though, high retoric criminals sometimes can talk their way out of murder. if they admit guilt they have another retoric check, either the bar stays put, or goes down a whole level. at that point the accuser gets to make a choice, agree with the sentence as is, or push for it to be higher or lower. if they go lower, the judges will accept it, if your happy with the current sentence, then the judges vote, if you want a more harsh punishment, theres a retoric check and you may boost the bar forward a level or not. in the end the judges vote and the accuser and the defendant get to try to talk the judges into voteing guilty or not guilty, there are 3 judges, 1 is the town judge, 2 are npc's that got jurrey duty. if the defendant is not guilty then the accuser has to pay 500 gold for court costs and all the evidence is invalid, if he's found guilty by 3 of 3 votes, then the accusers punishment is accepted. Fine is around 10% of the defendants gold. loss is a title loss, stockade is the defendant is taken out of the court by guards and locked up in the stockade near the market for the rest of the day, large fine is around 30% gold, dungeon is 4 - 8 days in jail depending on the crimes, robbery isnt as bad as murders. death is where the guards take the defendant out to the choping block outside the market and publicly kill the person for his crime.
Time, the game runs in almost turns, you play a day from 0:00 to 23:59. and it counts for a whole year. the seaons change though i doubt i'll add that to the map. but becuase of the season change, the work hours change for the next day you play and some reasources can't be collected, alchemists need flowers that dont grow in winter, same with wheat and stuff. your age is also measured by the days you've gone threw.
