Fierce TD v1.21

[Moderator]

20:27, 31st Jul 2010
ap0calypse: Rejected

Leaks, standard terrain.

 

[fernie13]

Well, by the looks of the map it seems like a normal TD map. For your first TD map, goodjob, I have not tested yet and I am about to do so now. Please give more description too, perhaps screenshots aswell.

EDIT:
Very nice map, a nice variety of towers. However, 3 of the 6 players when I hosted this suggested extra builders. PLEASE DO NOT!!! Extra builders are not needed, and everyone knows for a good TD there is only one builder. Very enjoyable map, I however failed. Haha. Remaking it right now. I'll give it a 4/5, hope to see new updates and possibly more players.
Also, please put a description of your map, updates and credits in the details!! Thanks!

2nd EDIT:
Also when a person loses all their lives they are immediatly kicked or 'defeated' from the game. This angers alot of people especially those who play with friends. Some people are happy to sit and watch their friends survival. I suggest:
1. Removing the Red Kicking trigger all together.
2. Removing the kick trigger once defeated.

 

[insaaane]

thanks for your suggestions!
gonna change these things!

 

[Vengeancekael]

Put the screenshots in hidden tags using:

• [hidden=Screenshots]Screenshots[/hidden]

Also the description is really bad, it's almost just a changelog. Tell us more about the map and add colorized titles. Just make your description in a comment box(so you can use colors etc.) and then use it for the map description.
Also adding a preview image would make the map more attractive.
How to add a preview image:
Resize the desired image to 256x256 or 128x128(you could use gimp for example)->Save it as a tga file->Import it->Change the path to war3mapPreview.tga

 

[krisserz]

Put the screenshots in hidden tags using:

Do same with changelog.

 

[X-OMG-X]

Looks cool as far as i can see. Possibly going to check it out tomorrow.
And. Put them into hidden tags

 

[Goatmilk]

Could be me, but when I tried this some days ago it was pretty hard in the end. First levels, np - your towers are still good and worth it here, but monster hp quickly goes up while bounty is very little and your upgrades cost more than you can afford, and the damage you get from upgrading is too little as well. I *think* I reached some level 30 or something maybe? Lost pretty badly to some hasted revenants I think, cant remember clearly. But the chain lightning tower and sniper tower both seemed like shit ones, and mainly the standard arrow tower and the speedy one with 3 dmg were the best ones. :/ Slow tower also sucked, lvl2 one still had horrible aoe and upgrading is too expensive with the small bounty you get.

 

[slake]

Downloading and gona review when finish.


Edit.

Ah man this is so hard. I got to level 15, how do other people get to 30.
Wtf, do all the waves give 1 gold, cause if they do then this map is imposible.
The towers are useless. The only ones I liked were the Arrow and maybe the slow and sniper.

 

[insaaane]

I know its hard but everytime i play with a good friend its too easy, we never loose a single life and at the end we had built every tower, i'll add a replay l8r!
But thats what i wanted to make, a very challeging tower defense
I also checked every towers dps per gold, and theres no tower which is absolutely bad
anyway, found some little inequalities in tower balancing, gonna fix that right now

 

[Falke13]

I didn't like the ''fucking'' at the loading screen.
The terrain need improvement because it makes the map to look bad.
Change klick to click (at lighting tower's ability)
Increase lighting tower's damage from 180 to 200 (at last lvl) and reduce it's cooldown to 2 or 3 sec less.
Add a -camera command to fix the camera if you use a camera hotkey (like delete)

Anyway it's a pretty good map , especially for your first one

 

[insaaane]

changed that
a command to fix the camera is already included (-zoom command; check questlog)

 

[Falke13]

Ops sr .

At the loading screen add the Realm you play from ,not only your account.

 

[slake]

Ok, example - sniper tower at it's ultimate level deals 1100 dmg and the arrow tower has 800, fix that - make the sniper like 2200 or 3300 dmg.
And change the slow towers dmg cause at ultimate it has 19 XD, make it 190.
Sorry for the mistake with only one gold, I looked carefully at the bounty the second game and saw that after the first boss it's more.
Also the terrain is fine, it's doesn't have to be like DotA's.
And when I played it for the furst time I was owned cause the map bugged somehow and the wave before the boss was the boss.( I mean instead of like 15 creeps there were 15 giant bosses and they owned me)
And please add a replay, I wanna see how does the pro do it.

 

[insaaane]

thx for your reply,
i see your point with the sniper tower, but the arrow tower ultimate has a total cost (updates included) of 855, the sniper ultimate only has a total cost of 460. 3000 dmg would be far to much i think (he also has this high range) - but you're right he could use a lil bit more
this wave bug didnt happen to me yet, gonna have a second look on my triggers
gonna rechange a lil bit on the towers
update will be uploaded by tommorow

 

[herbert]

I find this td too easy except for a few waves. Its a pleasant td btw.
But first what i dont like :
1. Time before first level is too short, i dont have time to read the descriptions or build a beginning maze without hurry. I dont like it.
2. Time between levels is too long, especially if you can build during waves.
3. The mazing block is misplaced and lost among the other towers (usually its the first tower, so you dont have to search for it)
that's it.

Building from the mazing tower or directly cost the same, maybe make the cost of towers from the mazing block cost 2 less (or wathever the block costs).

I usually loose some lives at the first creeps because i build my maze. Once my maze i build i just sit and watch creep dying till i research/spare for ultimate tower.
Besides the first 5 waves here are the waves i find hard:
Air waves: its hard to kill them all because you are swarmed, maybe splash tower solves (i dont build that tower). Anyway its a medium/ hard wave, and well balanced if you go for ultimate tower + sniper + upgrades
lvl35: Those 5 brutes are hard to kill, but its much easier in v1.15 then v1.13
lvl37: man i thought it was a damage test in 1.13. I had to juggle him a few times before killing him while the other waves where piece of cake (except lvl 35). In 1.15 i think he is killable with the right towers.

This is without juggling creeps, because if you go this way then every td is easy :s.

 

[Goatmilk]

I'd love to see a reply as well. I know a good maze has a lot to say in how well you'll do, but when I tried it just seemed way too hard to get money for upgrades.

 

[Falke13]

Also the terrain is fine, it's doesn't have to be like DotA's.

You are wrong, DotA's terrain doesn't have anything special at all, i have seen maps with more ''shiny'' terrains which makes your EYES getting tired.
And you shouldn't judge maps from IF YOU LIKE THE gameplay or not because it sucks.
I still believe that the whole green terrain is bad at least combine 2 kinds of terrains.

 

[slake]

No terrain is special, it just gives you the feel that you dont play the map but that you really are there or it just makes the map look much better.
The gameplay is one of the things a map should be judged if you ask me.
And finaly I have noting against the terrain, ha can use 5 kinds if he wants as long it doesn't get ugly and I meant that the terrain now is not his primary objective.
He has to focus on adding towers and waves and probably other more important stuff.

Oh and can someone tell me how do the teleports work cause I can't get to level 20 because of that.

 

[Urgloshkin]

My Review:
First Try
Levels 1-30 were moderately easy. I didn't leak. However, the difficulty escalates quickly from then on. I got considerably far (Level 35), but then the '5' boss units came. Needless to say there were like 20 of them. And I got owned.

Second Try
I played this again to see if I could do better, because the first time i had concentrated on only certain towers. And this time, the triggers actually worked. When it said flying units, flying units came. When it said 5, 5 came. But still, level 35 is ridiculous. I killed one. And thats with 3 of the the tower which deals the most damage in the game (Luck Tower Ultimate), on top of that they were near a Speed Tower Ultimate, and an Ultimate Tower. This means they deal at the least 2200 damage, and at most approximately 12,200 damage. But then you figure in the boss's armor, which reduces the incoming damage 71%, which leaves my tower to deal at MOST 4758 damage. Each of the bosses have 100,000 life. How am I supposed to kill that?

Points:

[+] Multiple towers, each having their own unique abilities.
[+] Multiple variations of creeps.
[-] Hotkeys not specified. This makes it very annoying, even with shift, to maze.
[-] The triggers didn't work the first time.
[-] I don't see any way to beat this TD. It's true it is important to make maps challenging, but by no means impossible.
[-] I would say make more variations of towers, instead of just upgrading the existing ones.
[-] Some towers are better than others. Lightning Towers are Ok at best in the beginning, but at the end, they do absolutely nothing. There are waves where the units are immune to them altogether, and with the multiple thousands of hit points they have, 180 damage isn't gonna do much. Having the Lightning Tower as a prerequisite to the Ultimate Tower is just gonna make you waste gold.
[-] As the previous line states, wasting gold on Lightning Towers is bad. You seem to not get enough gold to build the good towers. The splash tower costs 1000 gold to change to Ultimate, which is ridiculous.
[-] The amount of bounty on creeps fluctuates randomly. For instance, one level (I think level 15) gave 18 gold per creep, while level 16 gave only 9. Is it supposed to be this way? Because if so, you had better hope you don't leak on level 15.

My Vote: 2/5 (Lacking)
Theres nothing really 'spectacular' about this TD which sets it apart from others. The dynamics aren't even that effective, as some other TD's are balanced, and hard (But not too hard). And to your reply about never leaking once, I would like very much to see that replay.

 

[insaaane]

didnt upload a replay yet cuz i recently added new map versions which would make an old replay useless, played it online yesterday again, didnt lose a life again
my mate always begs me to make the map even harder cause its to easy
gonna upload a replay soon, didnt have time yet

The amount of bounty on creeps fluctuates randomly. For instance, one level (I think level 15) gave 18 gold per creep, while level 16 gave only 9. Is it supposed to be this way? Because if so, you had better hope you don't leak on level 15.

yes its supposed to be this way, lvl 15 is a fast lvl so you get more bounty

Some towers are better than others. Lightning Towers are Ok at best in the beginning, but at the end, they do absolutely nothing. There are waves where the units are immune to them altogether, and with the multiple thousands of hit points they have, 180 damage isn't gonna do much. Having the Lightning Tower as a prerequisite to the Ultimate Tower is just gonna make you waste gold.

lightning tower is actual only for the first waves, its cheap enough to have it on lvl 3 at round 10 or less, lvl 30+ are many boss waves -> single units - so adding a next upgrade to lightning tower would make no sense cause its not needed later. i also gave him more damage in my last update

the trigger bug you described never happened to me, also i dont see any bugs in my triggers, would be nice if you could upload a replay next time

anyway thanks for your feedback

 

[insaaane]

added replay (see map description below)

 

[slake]

How the #### are teleports used?!?

And an error keeps poping when I try to view the replay, it says The map file associated with the replay could not be found XD

 

[Falke13]

Somehow on level 15 The Cold Tower was able to attack the immune creeps,when they first came it didn't attack them but when there were a few of them left it started attacking them.

I will add a replay when it's over

Sell has the same hotkey with STOP, plz fix it.

Here you are:View attachment Fierce TD Cold Tower Bug.w3g

 

[herbert]

reply

here is a replay for those who find this td too difficult. Maze is unoptimized, same for the tower placement.

ps: why are my posts "invisible" when i 'm not logged in (when browsing as visitor)?

 

[insaaane]

yeah cold can attack but speed shouldn't decrease significantly

 

[Urgloshkin]

yes its supposed to be this way, lvl 15 is a fast lvl so you get more bounty

More bounty I can understand, but its twice as much as the level after. But also, if level 15 is this difficulty, then level 16 should be harder since its after it. Therefore, level 16 should always be harder than 15, and always give more bounty per kill.

lightning tower is actual only for the first waves, its cheap enough to have it on lvl 3 at round 10 or less, lvl 30+ are many boss waves -> single units - so adding a next upgrade to lightning tower would make no sense cause its not needed later. i also gave him more damage in my last update

Lightning Towers cost 50 + 80 + 100 = 230 gold to make level 3. You could use this gold to make other towers, which would make it easier to get the ultimate tower. Or you could make the lightning tower have additional abilities, say each bolt has a chance to explode, and deal 3% of the targets' max life. This way, no matter how much life the target has, the lightning tower will become effective against any unit.

I can't seem to view your replay because I don't have the right version of this map..? It says im supposed to have 1.17 to view the replay, but 1.2 is the highest I have and see uploaded on the hive. Maybe I missed a version, but those replays are useless with the new version.

I have no problems with terrain in TD's, simply because TD's are made for the quality of towers and gameplay, not for just looking.

I see another bug in the triggering, because if you kill the first unit of the spawn before any of the others come, the rest of the spawns will become from the next level. For example I played on level 6, but one spawn of level 6 came and I killed it instantly, so then all of the other spawns will become from level 7.
(If you're wondering why I have those towers at level 6, its because I cheated. xD)

 

[insaaane]

oh nice find, fixed that spawning bug

you say lightning tower is not worth it, you are wrong
lightning lvl 1 has 1,08 dps per gold
lightning lvl 2 has 1,44 dps per gold
lightning lvl 3 has 2,28 dps per gold
...

if you compare it with arrow tower for example, lightning tower is better (except for boss units)
arrow tower lvl 1 has 0,9 dps per gold
arrow tower lvl 2 has 1,26 dps per gold
arrow tower lvl 3 has 1,27 dps per gold
....

i calculated that for every tower to balance them, so trust me no tower is bad


gonna upload a new replay soon

 

[herbert5]

Hi,
good td but it needs more towers
I find this td too easy except for a few waves. Its a pleasant td btw.
But first what i dont like :
1. Time before first level is too short, i dont have time to read the descriptions or build a beginning maze without hurry. I dont like it.
2. Time between levels is too long, especially if you can build during waves.
3. The mazing block is misplaced and lost among the other towers (usually its the first tower, so you dont have to search for it)
that's it.

Building from the mazing tower or directly cost the same, maybe make the cost of towers from the mazing block cost 2 less (or wathever the block costs).

I usually loose some lives at the first creeps because i build my maze. Once my maze i build i just sit and watch creep dying till i research/spare for ultimate tower.
Besides the first 5 waves here are the waves i find hard:
Air waves: its hard to kill them all because you are swarmed, maybe splash tower solves (i dont build that tower). Anyway its a medium/ hard wave, and well balanced if you go for ultimate tower + sniper + upgrades
lvl35: Those 5 brutes are hard to kill, but its much easier in v1.15 then v1.13
lvl37: man i thought it was a damage test in 1.13. I had to juggle him a few times before killing him while the other waves where piece of cake (except lvl 35). In 1.15 i think he is killable with the right towers.

This is without juggling creeps, because if you go this way then every td is easy :s.

here is a replay for those who find this td too difficult. Maze is unoptimized, same for the tower placement.

 

[krisserz]

I`ll check this map soon
(mainly post is to debug ;P)

 

[insaaane]

will this map get checked again?