Feedback Spellcasters (I.E. corpse-making Necromancer)

[Banelingline]

The title I.E. is just an example, so that people aren't distracted by Feedback existing as an anti-caster ability. The example, itself, is the core of the idea. Spellcasters that make use of something, and make that something. Heroes and stuff that doesn't actually cast "spells" are also allowed, it's more the idea of abilities that feed into eachother to make a unit's (or, hell, even structure's) power arise from micromanagement in a clear and obvious fashion.

 

[disruptive_]

Always liked the idea of pseudo-Invoker like unit. It doesn't really have to be a hero. Basically using 2-3 resource type Abilities (typically "orbs", but can be ie. "cards") that must be combined, and then redirect to a new powerful, and by giving some information, wanted ability. Maybe not even a wanted ability to use, but an instant effect upon correct combination. If it features 3 or more resource abilities then order of combination should not be taken into account, unless you are up to make n^n abilities. With 2 resource abilities, order of combination makes sense because otherwise you would be able to make only 2 effects.

A tinker like unit (not really a spellcaster but the concept could be tweaked enough) that collects scrap metal to activate abilities. More metal, more abilities/more powerful existing ones. Scrap metal should just an item that is produced passively/actively by the building that trains the unit. The player can then choose to distribute it or asign it to one unit.
Maybe one of the abilities the tinker unit has is precisely a factory to produce metal, hence certain units can become a self sustaining unit.

An alchemist like unit that periodically checks nearby area, randomly generating 1-2 plant items (could be just dummy units, the thing is that you need something that can be ordered right-click). Upon creation, plants are removed after some time. Basically the unit has to choose the ingredients, and these are periodically refreshing. Upon selecting the 3° one, an "alchemical like spell" is given to the unit.

 

[cleavinghammer]

A caster that can summon trees and has tree-using abilities (Eat Tree, summon treants, summon a mountain giant...).

A tower with splash damage that gets a bigger splash radius with every unit killed.

A unit that has no/negative mana regen and uses mana with every attack (or even needs the Destroyer's ability to do more than 1-1 damage), but regains mana/gets absurdly high mana regen with every kill (regen lasts as long as it's in combat).

A unit with a Black Arrow-like ability, with every minion spawned also having a Black Arrow ability.

 

[nedio95]

You could have a spellcaster/mage/wizard/alchemist/any sort of magic user/blacksmith/forger/etc. that all (or most) of his spells create consumable items with actives. Or has a "Spell book" with spells that creates said items.
Like "Scroll of Chain Lightning", "Thunder Bolt Stone", "Wand of Healing Wave", etc.
Those have to be carefully balanced though to avoid abuse. All with reasonable cooldown and mana cost or lesser versions of said spells.
You get the idea.


regards
-Ned

Edit// To be honest, necromancers can, in theory, make their own corpses. Basic-attack until death and voila! Corpse!

 

[cleavinghammer]

Dark Ritual that causes the target to Kaboom (or Dark Ritual and minions that deal AoE damage on death).

An autocast summon spell that improves the more it's used (cooldown, cost, summon's stats), but only for that specific caster.

 

[Banelingline]

Dark Ritual that causes the target to Kaboom (or Dark Ritual and minions that deal AoE damage on death).

An autocast summon spell that improves the more it's used (cooldown, cost, summon's stats), but only for that specific caster.

The part in parenthesis for the first works, the second doesn't. An AoE buff that is more effective with more targets would work for the second. Again, Necromancer with corpse-making ability is the example, the idea is spellcasting units that have abilities which feed other abilities on the same spellcaster, one way or another. Synergies within a single unit's abilities, in that it's two or more abilities directly improving the power or consistency of eachother.

How it's so hard to understand this, I don't know.

 

[Atik]

Isn't a worker technically the ultimate "feedback spellcaster", since they can gather gold/lumber, and then use them to build town halls, which make more workers, who can make more town halls?

 

[disruptive_]

Pretty sure a worker can't spellcast or use abilities in any lore-like sense, also i'm interpreting that we are "aiming big" so to create heroe units and good spell ideas for fun/juicy/coherent hero experience. Feedback (positive or negative?, direct or indirect?, what extension?; this still is right, because otherwise we'll be too restricted, and hey, this is the idea factory) is not that of a terrible concept. Also the thread starter then realize that straightforward or almost obligatory synergy is a more relatable idea.

 

[Banelingline]

Isn't a worker technically the ultimate "feedback spellcaster", since they can gather gold/lumber, and then use them to build town halls, which make more workers, who can make more town halls?

The thing is that workers generally don't have any option to build structures in a way that acts like the abilities of a spellcaster. If they can do something like build a turret in five seconds, then have active abilities to gather resources more quickly than ordinary resource harvesting (even if it's just making a resource collector very quickly), they're able to qualify. The key is that they build in a way resembling ability use or have actual abilities on top of just building things.

Pretty sure a worker can't spellcast or use abilities in any lore-like sense, also i'm interpreting that we are "aiming big" so to create heroe units and good spell ideas for fun/juicy/coherent hero experience. Feedback (positive or negative?, direct or indirect?, what extension?; this still is right, because otherwise we'll be too restricted, and hey, this is the idea factory) is not that of a terrible concept.

Not just Heroes. They're a good option, though, as they're largely expected to be able to seriously change the course of a match. As mentioned above, caster-like behavior without technically being a caster (basically if it acts like it has activated abilities that feed into eachother, it works) is perfectly acceptable. To extend the worker pseudo-caster, a Goblin race could have extra units fulfilling worker roles (like the Shredder, obviously), such that one of their "casters" is instead a t2 builder that constructs turrets in combat-relevant timeframes, then builds generator structures that make those turrets permanently useful that happen to be usable as resource gathering structures (or a separate resource collector structure is also improved by the t2 builder exclusive generator).

 

[Atik]

So, as an example, Gazlow in Heroes of the Storm, who can build turrets, and when they die they drop scrap that he can pick up in order to more quickly replenish them?

Perhaps, growing from that, a Goblin T2 'builder' with quickly deploying turrets that cost lumber, and a pillage-like ability to gain lumber as they damage enemies.