[Campaign] Elite Soldier's abilities

[ArchDuke]

I was having a talk with @Lord Aiden and we began thinking about elite soldiers (ex. naga royal guard) and how to make them unique

What we thought of so far was this, soldiers for each side should have a unique ability to differentiate themselves from their counterparts,

So besides having resistant skin and being strong each soldier type should get at least one special ability

For instance lets say you have an Elite soldier called Spartan, this unit could be given critical strike as its special ability

Another elite could be called Ranger, this elite unit would come with the Bash ability

A third elite unit called xxx could could with a frenzy ability that allows it to attack faster for 20 sec each times it is cast

A fourth elite unit called xxy could come with amulet of shielding's ability such that a negative spell cast on it is blocked once every 20 seconds

A fifth elite unit called xyy could have an ability that allows him to do significant damage to structure

So I was wondering what are some abilities that you could see an elite unit coming with, any suggestions are welcome!

 

[ArchDuke]

That's a simple one:

An elite unit with frostmourne's life stealing ability, this will probably be hugely overpowered... >|<

 

[Lord Aiden]

That's a simple one:

An elite unit with frostmourne's life stealing ability, this will probably be hugely overpowered... >|<

Gotta admit, that's a great idea, but like you said it might be too up, especially if the ability steals over 33% of the attack

I would suggest one Elite unit have a Magic Resistance ability, such that the damage from all spells cast on the elite unit is reduced by 25-30%

 

[cleavinghammer]

If they all get a passive, you have the orbs and auras.

 

[Nowow]

Does it have to be passive? Also, I suggest you put out a list of units who should have an elite ability, otherwise how will we fit unit to ability.

 

[Lord Aiden]

Passives are preferred, as far as the list of units, let's say you're making these abilities for a human soldier type unit (a bodyguard basically)

 

[ArchDuke]

What about an elite unit with a spiked shell like ability, which damages melee units that attack it?

-Or maybe a unit that has the corruption ability, such that it reduces the armor of any unit it attacks by several points for a couple of seconds.

 

[disruptive_]

That is basically a hero type unit, but with all abilities available right off the bat.
I can't actually determine what you mean by "soldier".
All in all, I would do something like this:
1. Classify between types of special soldiers, or concepts, lets say:
a. An all out autonomous soldier that simply kick ass by himself.
b. A leader type soldier that bolsters allies with tactical or not so tactical skills.
c. A specialist type that is made to fullfill a more specific task, ie. destroy structures, counter flying units.
d. ???
2. Determine a base structure for this unit type (for example warcraft hero type units have an intrinsic structure: 3 attributes, 4 abilities, 1 must be ultimate, can use items, etc., in my opinion this structure allows for a minimum of coherence, which is always good), just as example:
a. Up to 3 abilities for each special soldier
b. 1 to 3 must be passive.
c. QWER hotkey system.
d. A creative intrinsic system for this elite soldier unit type (i'm recalling a map called Power of Corruption); that can go between: a) all these units having a standart ability (ie. Spell Resistance) or damage/armor types (ie. Chaos Damage type), to other more creative ones (ie. killing a elite soldier grants a powerful item or resources, or to recruit a elite soldier you will need to do something amazing, eyecandy, etc.)

TL'DR: Elite soldiers have 3 abilities, atleast 1 passive, 1000 Hp and 500 Mp, heavy armor.
The Sapper: specialist unit, has Demolish, Liquid Fire, and an active ability that grants bonus range for some seconds (see ensnare ability, or just metamorphosis).
The Officer: leader unit, has Devotion Aura, active: Place Flag (an Observer Ward based ability that plants a flag with command aura, thus giving bonus damage to units nearby the flag, that can be destroyed), active: Paint Target (just faerie fire ability)
The Juggernaut: autonomous unit, has Hardened Skin, Pulverize (that passive ability that gives a chance to deal bonus aoe damage), active: Bellow (howl of terror ability).

Apologize for my not so good english.

 

[JesusHipster]

Auras or orb abilities such as poision or frost? I think those will be very handy in meele like games!

 

[Lord Siler]

My suggestion is use permanent immolation, you could use feedback to make the unit useful against heroes, or demolition to make it strong against structures

 

[King Tidus]

wat about the pulverize ability???

u can change the black arrow abiliy, make it short range, but do like 100 extra damge with a long cooldown, or have it restore the unit who carries it health if it is successful, some good ideas. you guys should think about them

 

[ArchDuke]

wat about the pulverize ability???

u can change the black arrow abiliy, make it short range, but do like 100 extra damge with a long cooldown, or have it restore the unit who carries it health if it is successful, some good ideas. you guys should think about them

You mean if it successfully destroys the unit right?

 

[King Tidus]

ye, instead of summoining a unit, it summons a dummy, but this causes the caster to be cured by like 100hp (via trigger)

 

[Lord Aiden]

That's definitely something I've not thought of yet, but will try doing, thanks man

 

[Lord Aiden]

That is basically a hero type unit, but with all abilities available right off the bat.
I can't actually determine what you mean by "soldier".
All in all, I would do something like this:
1. Classify between types of special soldiers, or concepts, lets say:
a. An all out autonomous soldier that simply kick ass by himself.
b. A leader type soldier that bolsters allies with tactical or not so tactical skills.
c. A specialist type that is made to fullfill a more specific task, ie. destroy structures, counter flying units.
d. ???

C. Specialist

2. Determine a base structure for this unit type (for example warcraft hero type units have an intrinsic structure: 3 attributes, 4 abilities, 1 must be ultimate, can use items, etc., in my opinion this structure allows for a minimum of coherence, which is always good), just as example:
a. Up to 3 abilities for each special soldier
b. 1 to 3 must be passive.
c. QWER hotkey system.
d. A creative intrinsic system for this elite soldier unit type (i'm recalling a map called Power of Corruption); that can go between: a) all these units having a standart ability (ie. Spell Resistance) or damage/armor types (ie. Chaos Damage type), to other more creative ones (ie. killing a elite soldier grants a powerful item or resources, or to recruit a elite soldier you will need to do something amazing, eyecandy, etc.)

Usually 3 abilities, mostly passive, since most of these elite units are warrior types they dont have mp, but again some are the exception to this rule

TL'DR: Elite soldiers have 3 abilities, atleast 1 passive, 1000 Hp and 500 Mp, heavy armor.
The Sapper: specialist unit, has Demolish, Liquid Fire, and an active ability that grants bonus range for some seconds (see ensnare ability, or just metamorphosis).
The Officer: leader unit, has Devotion Aura, active: Place Flag (an Observer Ward based ability that plants a flag with command aura, thus giving bonus damage to units nearby the flag, that can be destroyed), active: Paint Target (just faerie fire ability)
The Juggernaut: autonomous unit, has Hardened Skin, Pulverize (that passive ability that gives a chance to deal bonus aoe damage), active: Bellow (howl of terror ability).

Apologize for my not so good english.

 

[Lord Siler]

Against building: liquid fire, that orb of flames ability, the sapper thing

Against units: critical strike, slow poison, envenomed weapons, immolation, Bash,

Against heroes: Feedback, critical strike, bash,

Against air: ensnare, Dragonhawk's ability (idk the name), modified black arrow, faerie fire can make air units very vulnerable

Against mobs: units with negative auras, unit that have abilities like stomp, fan of knives, or chain lightening types, cleaving attack can be very effective, barrage ability, etc.

Against ships: ranged siege units, spells like liquid fire but that can target mechanic units

 

[Lord Aiden]

You forgot demolition against buildings, or simply have a 2nd attack with the siege attack type

 

[ArchDuke]

What about a special execute ability (like a critical strike that automatically destroys anything with less than 100 or 200 hp?)

 

[Lord Siler]

@Purifier Not a bad idea, we had something similar

Also we can make an ability that allows for greater regeneration when hp is low
But the better ability for an elite unit would be a stomp ability that is similar to fan of blades, in that it gives a certain % chance that the attack will damage all units around the hero, that would be pretty ideal

 

[ArchDuke]

I got a list of things, I'll pm it to you later on tonight, hope u like it man

 

[Lord Aiden]

You know for balancing purposes we've had Crusaders have 2 critical strike abilities; one that gives a 20% chance to deal 2.5x the damage to units, and another that gives a smaller than 10% chance to deal 2x damage to heroes and unit with resistant skin, otherwise the unit is super op when fighting heroes

 

[Colonel Aster]

What about the whole Milrein elite guard thing? I believe we wanted them to be either called "red guard" or "Crimson Crusader" or something along those lines?

Whatever happened to those units? I thought Blake had them all figured out

 

[Lord Aiden]

Blake said some of the files were lost, so I guess he'll have to rework them

 

[Lord Siler]

Those units were like Shar's elite on steroid, I think they had 1375 hp, have an ability that gives them a 20% chance to damage surrounding hostile units, and a critical strike ability that does 5x the damage but only 5% of the time.

 

[Colonel Aster]

Those units were like Shar's elite on steroid, I think they had 1375 hp, have an ability that gives them a 20% chance to damage surrounding hostile units, and a critical strike ability that does 5x the damage but only 5% of the time.

Milreavers have 1200 hp, with hardened armor that resists 6 damage, plus a critical strike ability that gives them a 35% chance to deal 2x the damage and 10% chance to deal 10x the damage....its OP but theyre only like that cause they appear is a select few missions and with a specific purpose...

 

[Daffa]

Milreavers have 1200 hp

Okay

with hardened armor that resists 6 damage,

MG still better

plus a critical strike ability that gives them a 35% chance to deal 2x the damage

Quite a pain

and 10% chance to deal 10x the damage

WHAT? wait WHAT?

<Ignore this, just a joke>

Anyway, I'm curious of the elite units

 

[Colonel Aster]

It's an elite unit, what did you expect, on the other hand its pretty vulnerable when it comes to spells unlike other elite units, so if you just cast away at it it'll get destroyed rather quickly,


also one thing not mentioned is that it has a rather long attack cooldown for this type of unit, and that kinda balances it out somewhat

 

[Blake8]

@Colonel Aster They're not gonna have hardened skin, I don't need Crusaders Version 2.0, just an elite unit

 

[Colonel Aster]

o my mistake then

 

[ArchDuke]

Hey I remember while playing the Silventria demo that the demo boss at the end had an aura that lowered all enemies attacks by a certain %, why dont you put that aura on an elite unit?

 

[Lord Siler]

That could work very well actually, an elite unit that causes other units to lose some of their attack damage, seems really interesting, as well as effective from a practical point of view

 

[ArchDuke]

What about giving a soldier an ability which creates a temporary shield that protects him from magic?

 

[Lord Aiden]

Really high armor? idk im running out of ideas here

 

[King Tidus]

i was experimenting with some of these abilities on my own map and i came to the conclusion that pulverize (or alternatively something like spiked shell, or cleaving attack) tends to be the most awesome elite ability, i remember seeing a youtube video where a person pits 25 knights against 20 taurens, all units are fully upgraded; the tauren always win, but I dont think this would stand if they didnt have the pulverize ability

tldr

Pulverize is a very good ability for an elite unit because it allows it to damage multiple enemies and is a statistically triggered passive.

 

[ArchDuke]

You could give them an ability that reduces damage from spells. Im sure this has been mentioned before but to me this would greatly enhance the usefulness of the said unit

 

[ArchDuke]

yes that works well, but we're looking for new abilities that could be useful...plz suggest an original idea

 

[ArchDuke]

well lets lets see you either want passives or autocasts right? well the parasite ability cam be changed around such that it severly slows as well as damages its target, I think that could be used if you know how to do it right
this might not be the best thing. But at least im being original here

 

[ArchDuke]

Hey that wasn't bad, the parasite ability can actually be quite useful now that I think about it

 

[ArchDuke]

Anyone thought of having a arrow of fire ability or something similar that allows the unit to do a huge amount of damage every specific interval?
I have re-played the dwarf campaign recently and Im talking about the ultimate ability that the Gnoll hero (not the usurper) has, this could be very useful for an elite unit. Atleast imho

 

[ArchDuke]

@Lord Aiden
What exactly happened to the units you were developing? i never got a chance to ask how it worked out

 

[Lord Aiden]

What happened was we were developing 2 units: Milreaver and Alpha

Milreavers were all fine, no real problem there except for certain tweaking issues

But originally the concept of the alpha was that it had to be much stronger than the Milreaver, it was essentially this tank unit with 1350hp, hardened skin and evasion, at first it worked, but somewhere along the lines we realized that it had an evasion of 33%, when it was supposed to be 25 or 20 and thats exactly what was making it so op, then storywise it didnt make sense: how is some small time traitor general able to have special forces that are stronger than the elite special forces of an entire nation. So the alpha was re-designed to be this tank unit that could take lots of damage and was very good against magic attacks and spells (it had a spell reduction ability of 50%) but did not do much damage (I believe the final numbers were something like 32-49) While the Milreaver had 1200hp and no spell resistance or hardened skin, but did more damage per hit and had 2 critical strike abilities: 35% chance to do twice the damage, and 10% chance to do 10 times the damage (to non heroes and non resistant skin units). - So one unit is a tank, while the other is a crazy damage dealer. But Milreavers are surprising easy to destroy if you just focus fire on them, also heavy air units can easily decimate them since they got heavy armor.

 

[ArchDuke]

So what happened storywise. That whole rogue general thing still gonna happen

 

[Lord Aiden]

Well if it ever gets developed you would fight the general who sides with the rebels along with his elite soldiers the alphas early in the story. Then later in the story you would fight against a rogue general, who is actually a field marshal trying to start a coupe, but has nothing to do with the rebels, and that's when you have to face Milreavers, Gray guards and the rest of those specialized units.

 

[ArchDuke]

Sounds like the traitor would be a routine battle, but the field marshal would be a much more epic one

 

[ArchDuke]

@Lord Aiden

is this what you said that battle vs the necromancer will end like

 

[Lord Aiden]

yeah I believe it was suggested by @deepstrasz in my yuri thread a while ago before it got merged

holy shit that mission is insane though, you have to battle an enemy force which has four armed nuke silos

mental omega is fucking crazy

 

[ArchDuke]

@Lord Aiden
Here are my very first attempt at creating the terrain, remember this is just an attempt

 

[Lord Aiden]

Ok I liked the way you separated the upper side of the map from the rest of it, this is perfect, but this map is less than 10% complete...send me something more finished up next time

 

[ArchDuke]

Ye, I just wanted to see if you liked the idea first (this map was my demonstration of sorts of this) that's why I didn't finish it

 

[Lord Aiden]

excellent demo then, I highly approve. . . . . .the separation of the final base should make the battle much more difficult as well as epic