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Dead Rivers

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The damage brought by the Burning Legion turned the inhabitants of the forest into mad monsters. But in the center of the forest is the Source of Life, the waters of which still heal all diseases and wounds.

4 Gold Mines (2 for 17500 gold, 2 for 12500 gold)

2 Mercenary Camps
2 Goblin Shops
1 Source Of Life

4 Green groups of enemies
8 Orange groups of enemies
1 Red group of enemies


Felwood-1.png
Felwood-2.png
Felwood-3.png
Contents

Dead Rivers (Map)

Reviews
mafe
Hey, I'm sorry but I have to say that for a 1v1 map, there are a lot of issues. Technical stuff: -Creeps dropping items of different levels (70% lvl3 or 30% lvl 1). -Creeps at expansions not on camp stance (same for the main bases, but in a 1v1 thes...
mafe
So, I kinda missed that you updated this map again. About the trees, there are the following potential issues: -Wisps can hide in safe spots. -Small units can run into the forests and big units or heroes cant reach them. I would really like it if you...

mafe

Map Reviewer
Level 24
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
868
Hey, I'm sorry but I have to say that for a 1v1 map, there are a lot of issues.

Technical stuff:
-Creeps dropping items of different levels (70% lvl3 or 30% lvl 1).
-Creeps at expansions not on camp stance (same for the main bases, but in a 1v1 thes will be removed anyway upon spawning).
-Units are likely to walk past the fountain and get attacked by the creeps.

Not technically wrong, but will result in awkward/imbalanced gameplay:
-Expansions way too hard to take (poisons damage) and to defend (close to enemy base), in particular for humans.
-Expansion can only be attacked by going up a single small ramp.
-Central fountain, with air only creeps.
-Countless of small paths between trees.
-Many dead ends.

Visual stuff:
-Non-smooth transitions between ramps and cliffs.

Sorry if this sounds very negative. I can further explain this if you want to. And for what is apparently a first melee map, this is actually quite good. But still, it needs some work. So I'll have to set this to "Awaiting update", until at least the technical issues are reworked.
 
Level 5
Joined
Jun 4, 2016
Messages
62
In terms of items with monsters errors were inevitable, as I did not carefully check the levels of monsters and items that they give.
Yes, at the Source of Life to pass without a fight will not work. Doing this , I was guided by one of the standard Warcraft maps, where such was present. But here the AI characters will see this as a shortcut to a hostile base, it's really bad.
 
Level 5
Joined
Jun 4, 2016
Messages
62
Hey, I'm sorry but I have to say that for a 1v1 map, there are a lot of issues.

-Creeps dropping items of different levels (70% lvl3 or 30% lvl 1).

-Central fountain, with air only creeps.
-Many dead ends.

Sorry if this sounds very negative. I can further explain this if you want to. And for what is apparently a first melee map, this is actually quite good. But still, it needs some work. So I'll have to set this to "Awaiting update", until at least the technical issues are reworked.
I looked at the monster settings on the standard maps. They are no different from the used chances of falling objects and their types.
Positions, which are only flying the enemy as present in the standard maps. (Usually the Dragon's Lair, but it's the same with groups of Harpies and Hell Dragons. It is unlikely that this can be considered a full-fledged mistake, since this place is the point of the strongest monsters, and Blizzard also uses this in maps, but to remove them from the direct path will be correct.)
The main deadlocks are the positions of the Mercenary Camp and the Shop, in other places there is space for a place to retreat when meeting the enemy.
 

mafe

Map Reviewer
Level 24
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
868
Yes, at the Source of Life to pass without a fight will not work. Doing this , I was guided by one of the standard Warcraft maps, where such was present. But here the AI characters will see this as a shortcut to a hostile base, it's really bad.
You are correct. Lost temple is kinda similar. Still Lost Temple is a very old map and nowadays it is generall no longer accepted on melee maps that units will get attacked by creeps if they just walk around the map.
I looked at the monster settings on the standard maps. They are no different from the used chances of falling objects and their types.
Basically all standard melee maps only have itemdrops that follow are "100% chance for lvl X item of class Y". Anything else creates just a big luck factor for no real reason: Imagine both players creep the identic creepspots on the other sides of the map, but one player get a lvl 3 item, while the otehr only gets a lvl 1 item.
Which maps exactly have you been looking at?
Positions, which are only flying the enemy as present in the standard maps. (Usually the Dragon's Lair, but it's the same with groups of Harpies and Hell Dragons. It is unlikely that this can be considered a full-fledged mistake, since this place is the point of the strongest monsters, and Blizzard also uses this in maps, but to remove them from the direct path will be correct.)
I think that a creepspot of only flying units is probably a bad idea (for a 1v1 map at least), but I do not insist that it has to be changed.
The main deadlocks are the positions of the Mercenary Camp and the Shop, in other places there is space for a place to retreat when meeting the enemy.
Yes. It is just that this a small map and there are already 4 dead ends. Here too, I do not insist that it has to be changed for the map to be approved, I'm just saying that it is likely to results in awkward gameplay. Most ladder maps are bigger and have fewer dead ends or even none at all.
 
Level 5
Joined
Jun 4, 2016
Messages
62
Basically all standard melee maps only have itemdrops that follow are "100% chance for lvl X item of class Y". Anything else creates just a big luck factor for no real reason: Imagine both players creep the identic creepspots on the other sides of the map, but one player get a lvl 3 item, while the otehr only gets a lvl 1 item.
Which maps exactly have you been looking at?
To be honest, I'm not sure what the problem is. The enemy bases are the same types of enemies, so the items they drop similar, if I did not make a mistake in the settings of a group. (I checked item drops on about 5 Blizzard maps. Mainly designed for 2-4 players.)
 

mafe

Map Reviewer
Level 24
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
868
Generic Blizzard Map:
100.png

This map:
70-30.png

My apologies for the non-english screenshots, but clear now what I want to say.
Basically, I would like know why there is this 70% chance for lvl 3 item and 30% chance for lvl 1 item.

Regarding Expansions:
Generic Blizzard Map:
echo.png

This map:
deadrivers.png
I understand and appreciate that you dont want the treants to attack player units from far away, but this means that on your map, buildings can be made close to the goldmines before creeping it. This is generally not accepted on melee maps.
 
Level 5
Joined
Jun 4, 2016
Messages
62
Generic Blizzard Map:
Basically, I would like know why there is this 70% chance for lvl 3 item and 30% chance for lvl 1 item.

I understand and appreciate that you dont want the treants to attack player units from far away, but this means that on your map, buildings can be made close to the goldmines before creeping it. This is generally not accepted on melee maps.
Dead ends remained, but on two sides became a bit more space.
Dragons remained, but now they should not attack the soldiers walking by. At the same time, you can become the Source not to engage them in battle.
The objects and the positions of the monsters from the mines fixed.
 

mafe

Map Reviewer
Level 24
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
868
Alright, you have adressed all of the most important issues which I mentioned, except the holes in the forests, which I am now surprised to see that I did not categorize it as "technical issues". What do you think about it?

We can have different opinions about dead ends, which is fair, so I wont complain about it any further.
It also now possible to heal for free at the fountain, but given that I asked you to reposition creeps, I guess the blame is on me xD
 
Level 5
Joined
Jun 4, 2016
Messages
62
Alright, you have adressed all of the most important issues which I mentioned, except the holes in the forests, which I am now surprised to see that I did not categorize it as "technical issues". What do you think about it?

We can have different opinions about dead ends, which is fair, so I wont complain about it any further.
It also now possible to heal for free at the fountain, but given that I asked you to reposition creeps, I guess the blame is on me xD
I have not tried to climb into the thickets of trees, so I do not know how it can affect the game. Unless, attempts to hide in trees of the worker, in case of destruction of camp.

The source is not as convenient to move as dragons, I needed to do this without greatly expanding the Central area. =.=
 

mafe

Map Reviewer
Level 24
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
868
So, I kinda missed that you updated this map again.
About the trees, there are the following potential issues:
-Wisps can hide in safe spots.
-Small units can run into the forests and big units or heroes cant reach them.

I would really like it if you also fixed those non-smooth transitiones between ramps and cliffs.
Ramsp.png
Green = good; Red = bad, other similar spots elsewhere too.
This often happen if you have ramps where the bottom part is in the water. Try raising the terrain, remake the ramps, and then lower the terrain again. But ramps just have weird sometimes and I still dont fully understand them.

Anyway, you showed you fixed the majority of issues, so I guess it's fair to approve it , even though I still think there is a lot of room for improvement.
 
Level 5
Joined
Jun 4, 2016
Messages
62
So, I kinda missed that you updated this map again.
About the trees, there are the following potential issues:
-Wisps can hide in safe spots.
-Small units can run into the forests and big units or heroes cant reach them.

Green = good; Red = bad, other similar spots elsewhere too.
This often happen if you have ramps where the bottom part is in the water. Try raising the terrain, remake the ramps, and then lower the terrain again. But ramps just have weird sometimes and I still dont fully understand them.
About the trees, but I planned to fix it.

Lifts created with a 45 degree turn and often work incorrectly, to fix it for sure you may have to redo them under the same pile as the rise marked green. Under the scenery this is almost not visible.

By the way, how can you not tell how to download two versions of the map at once? In addition to the map with English description I have a version in Russian. I think the site has those to whom this version will be more convenient.
 
Last edited:
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