Cryptozoology: Science or Fiction?

[N.Knight]

So, there you go. Lets start a discussion about this topic. What do you think, are cryptids (bigfoot, lochness monsters, Yeti,etc.) real animals or just a figment of collective imagination and folklore? Its an interesting and fun topic, I am a little bored and thought to start this discussion. Its not a joke thread though, so keep it real.

 

[Wasabee]

They still need clear and concrete evidence of such cryptids to exist and still should be considered as imaginary or mythical creatures. A lot of people may give evidences and reports of sightings but there is no proper documentation or study about the cryptid. Some cryptids are other animals mistaken to be another creature especially not everyone has a knowledge about the different species of life on earth and some are even high deformed or decayed body of an animal.

 

[nhs325]

Probably rare species that we never heard about, just like the giant squid. And we found new species (especially fish) every year. So, those "creatures" only exist from our imagination.

 

[Shadow Fury]

There isn't any solid evidence that these creatures exist as well as that they do not exist. Nobody can say with certainty if these cryptids exist on Earth or not. Humanity still didn't explore all the remove regions of Earth thus there are still countless caves and deep marine abysses to be discovered and examined for life.
Several people claim to have sighted such creatures yet as long as there is no concrete proof of their existance, sceptical people will always question about this.

 

[Wasabee]

Some of the claims are based of another actual animal, like krakens which is actually a giant or a colossal squid, sea serpents but actually its an oarfish or some cryptids are hoaxes made by people who seeks attention.

 

[N.Knight]

Probably rare species that we never heard about, just like the giant squid. And we found new species (especially fish) every year. So, those "creatures" only exist from our imagination.

Good point. They may be rare species that we simply do not understand. It might seem an absurd idea that in such a day an age where every known animal is presumably captured on film and well documented in books that such large and complex life forms will go unnoticed. It is to be noted that most of the cryptids are reported from places which are very remote and have little or no modern technology. People at these places have no access to cell phones, cameras, or the internet and it is only reasonable that if a rare creature exists, it only exists in folklore. However, urban legends of monsters in modern cities and towns are just people doing drugs and seeing stuff.

Some of the claims are based of another actual animal, like krakens which is actually a giant or a colossal squid, sea serpents but actually its an oarfish or some cryptids are hoaxes made by people who seeks attention.

Agreed. In some cases yes, there may be some fact in the fancy but most of them appear to be hoaxes. Infact, I think, in some cases, it might be the work of organized groups who may gain from the alleged animal\monsters existence. Such as to promote tourism or to spread creationist agenda. Or it maybe people pranking people just for the sake of fun. Another funny thing I noticed is that most of these alleged monsters reports come from the USA, red neck areas XD

Humanity still didn't explore all the remove regions of Earth thus there are still countless caves and deep marine abysses to be discovered and examined for life.

Truly. This is something that has always perplexed me. We are looking for life on other planets while we are yet to document all the life forms on our own planet. Every year new and complex life forms (we are talking about fish, reptiles and small mammals not bacteria) are discovered from areas which are not explored properly. Clearly zoology is not a dead science yet. There is a lot to be discovered and to named and classified.

 

[Wasabee]

Truly. This is something that has always perplexed me. We are looking for life on other planets while we are yet to document all the life forms on our own planet. Every year new and complex life forms (we are talking about fish, reptiles and small mammals not bacteria) are discovered from areas which are not explored properly. Clearly zoology is not a dead science yet. There is a lot to be discovered and to named and classified.

There is still a lot of uncatalogue species in the planet. A lot of dense jungles and temperate forests, extreme habitats such as hot hydrothermal vents under the sea oozes with microscopic and macroscopic wildlife (such as tube worms), and maybe even ancient life forms in Mars.

 

[N.Knight]

Correct

Out of all the cryptids we know about, I think that the ape like creatures (bigfoot, yeti) might turn out to be flesh and blood animals.

 

[HINDYhat]

This very informative and intellectual and smart series convinced me that God, and by that I mean the collective animal mystery, is real. Take a look -- it's in a book!

Thanks.

 

[Heinvers]

I don't know what's more surprising/anything, that video, chupacabra myth or the fact that you posted.

OT: Let's see..cryptids as in rare/unspotted species so far and all that kukamunga stuff.

Well, I doubt that something like Bigfoot/Yeti/Caveman/Chupacabra has a verified existence/is real at all. Seems like hocup pocus to me.
As for marine species, yeah might exist loads of those. Giant octopus, why not since there's a squid already?

Speculations will be as such until proven otherwise.

 

[N.Knight]

@HINDYhat, will take a look at it later, if you are so convinced about it but the only link I can imagine between mystery animals and god is that of creationist propaganda.

My opinion can be extended to as far as considering most of them as very rare species of flesh and blood animals or life forms which may be not fully understood yet. Nothing beyond that.

Among all the myriad beasts and monsters, I find that the yeti or the bigfoot might be real creatures. As I personally know a person who has had an encounter with a Yeti. The person is a retired army man, my kindred and of a reputable character. I do not doubt his words and believe that atleast the Yeti might be a rare kind of ape.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Such legendary creatures probably have real roots, but are not real in the sense of them being what people think they are.

Both bigfoot and Yeti could be humans or related to humans. All it would take is a few gene mutations/problems and a kid/adult with an over active imagination to morph a perfectly reasonable human with a medical condition into some legendary creature. Due to the age of the story, it is likely long dead if it was a human or long extinct due to humanity if a distant relative of humans.

lochness monsters was likely some form of over-sized eel. In the old days such large marine animals could pose a threat to most ships and so were often mentioned as monsters of sorts. Stories and lack of knowledge twists the truth and a few imaginative writers seal it as a legendary monster removing all fact from it. Even if it did exist once as some form of real animal it probably has long since been captured and killed by humans.

 

[N.Knight]

lochness monsters was likely some form of over-sized eel........

The Lochness monster in my opinion never existed. It is more likely the extension of the mythic Water Horse or the Kelpie. The loch 'Ness' is not a suitable habitat for a giant eel species to exist. The loch is simply not productive enough to support a large carnivore(s), or so I have read.

Both bigfoot and Yeti could be humans or related to humans. All it would take is a few gene mutations/problems and a kid/adult with an over active imagination to morph a perfectly reasonable human with a medical condition into some legendary creature. Due to the age of the story, it is likely long dead if it was a human or long extinct due to humanity if a distant relative of humans.

Indeed a very logical hypothesis and one that I would have no problem agreeing with if we were talking in the context of suburban USA. But, the yeti is not a creature born out of sci-fi pop culture. A person over fed on images of animated aliens and monsters is more prone to lying or coming with out of this world explanations than a poor tribal, living in a remote area, unexposed to even basic technology, such as electricity. In such places there are no urban myths, there is only reality. Harsh and cruel reality. As far as the age of the stories are concerned they are still very much alive and what is alive can also kick

In my previous post I had stated a person in my relation who had encountered a Yeti. I will like to share his tale as it was the foundation for my belief in the existence of Yeti. Now, this person is a retied army man, a person of reputable character (having fought in the Siachen war against Pakistan) and who enjoys a good standing among my community. He is the least likely to lie or make up stories, just to spread myths.

Besides being an army man he is also an avid outdoors man, from my experience with him in the bush. Army men lead lives too hard and practical and have too little imagination to believe in hocus pocus. And Outdoors men are not superstitious people too. If you have spent a night under the stars in the middle of nowhere, then you know what I am talking about. He is a combination of both and the encounter he had was shared by 3 other people. All soldiers, out on patrol, all saw the animal in plain sight. There is very little room for error here.

The encounter took place in 1981, in the remotest Himalayan wilderness, where he was posted. While out on foot patrol, he and his companions came across this beast, strolling across a rock slip. He describes it as a large, bipedal gorilla (his own words). Its hair were dark brown with silvery tips. It was about 50 meters away and all of the men in the party had a good look at it. The creature was unaware of their presence at first but when it realized it was being watched, it ran away. Sprinted back into the woods. They tried following it, but it was too fast and agile on the steep cliffs and rocks and the men lost track of it. He refers to the animal as male. When I asked him about why he is so sure of the animal's sex. Funnily, he remembers, that the Yeti had a enormous penis, dangling out of the hairy mass between his legs. hahaha

And whats more the next day, a local Sherpa tribal claimed that a Yeti (or a HimManav) as they are called, stole a sheep from his flock. The Sherpa are people of the mountains, they know the difference between a Bear, a wolf and a giant man-ape. Villagers and tribals are compensated by the Indian government for their loss of livestock by protected predators. The Sherpa know that, yet he insisted that it was not a wolf, bear or snow leopard. He claimed it was a big male yeti, knowing that there is no compensation for that, the animal not existing on official records.

This very informative and intellectual and smart series convinced me that God....

Edit: finally clicked on that link. I thought it was some kind of documentary but turned out to be silly show with more histrionics than a c grade horror movie. I guess you were just trying to be a smart ass Hindyhat. I will keep this behavior in my mind next time I come across you on hive.

 

[Dr Super Good]

The loch 'Ness' is not a suitable habitat for a giant eel species to exist. The loch is simply not productive enough to support a large carnivore(s), or so I have read.

It did not have to be resident in the loch, just have swam into it at some stage where people made a story about it. Like all stories it would be subjected to inflation so a 20ft or so eel could become a 300 ft long monsters.

in the remotest Himalayan wilderness

Due to the high altitude of that area and its generally bad weather conditions it is possible for people to suffer from hallucinations. Unless they brought real photographic evidence or a specimen back it is possible that his entire squad was suffering from the environment and mistook something reasonable (a human wearing think furry clothing for warmth or some other native wild animal) as a yeti. They are not lying because to them it seemed the truth however it might not reflect the reality of the situation.

Can you tell the reality of an event when under the influence of a variety of factors? Exhaustion? Poor oxygen exchange? sub water freezing temperatures? Hunger? Poor visibility?

If there is such a thing as a Yeti then it is only a mater of time before it gets spotted on Google Earth or by other satellite mapping systems.

 

[Heinvers]

It did not have to be resident in the loch, just have swam into it at some stage where people made a story about it. Like all stories it would be subjected to inflation so a 20ft or so eel could become a 300 ft long monsters.

That would be improbable since Plesiousaurus was known to live in the oceans not lakes.

 

[Wasabee]

That would be improbable since Plesiousaurus was known to live in the oceans not lakes.

And also how would it be possible for them to survive the K-2 Extinction?

 

[Dr Super Good]

That would be improbable since Plesiousaurus was known to live in the oceans not lakes.

Except was it one? or was it something else? Seeing how whales swim up UK rivers from time to time it is not impossible to rule out such a thing.

 

[takakenji]

no its all a fucking scam

 

[N.Knight]

It did not have to be resident in the loch, just have swam into it at some stage where people made a story about it. Like all stories it would be subjected to inflation so a 20ft or so eel could become a 300 ft long monsters.

Correct me if I am wrong but I always thought that the loch is land locked. If it isn't then there is the possibility of sea animals swimming in during high tide. Although a porpoise or a seal or even a Sturgeon are a more likely candidate for the sightings rather than a giant eel, as eels are not known to surface.

Due to the high altitude of that area.....

All these possibilities are very true. I cannot deny the influence of environmental and physical conditions. Perhaps I will sit and talk with that person again and ask about these factors. As of now, the evidence strongly suggests that he was not hallucinating. Let us take a look at these points:
1. How can 4 people share the same hallucinatory experience with such remarkable detail and consistency.
2. All of them are trained army men (trained for survival techniques in high altitude), also two were experienced outdoors men and avid hunters.
3. They did not see a fleeting glimpse or a blob of black in the snow but observed the animal in detail at a close quarters (50 m distance). They also did remember tiny details such as the color of the hair and the large male genitalia of the animal.
4. Most importantly, they were not aware of any such animal to exist, not even in stories. So, to imagine one needs to atleast know the physical form of such a creature.
5. Lastly, you missed the account of the local Sherpa man, who claimed the very next day that a Yeti has stolen a sheep from his flock. Evidence that a Yeti was in the area. Knowing well enough that he will not be compensated for naming a predator which was not on the official list.

As for tangible evidence, it was 1980s India and the army was not that well equipped. A camera would have been a luxury item not a necessity back then.

Also, I feel that the Yeti's image has been much maligned by the so called Big foot researchers and cryptozoologists. The comparison and similarity of the Yeti with the American urban myth brings bad rep to any Yeti sighting or claim. I feel less inclined to believe in the Bigfoot. Perhaps I am biased, perhaps rightly so because there seem to be a whole menagerie of monsters in America. Aliens, vampires, muslim terrorists and all that....not much credibility there.....

 

[Wasabee]

Correct me if I am wrong but I always thought that the loch is land locked. If it isn't then there is the possibility of sea animals swimming in during high tide. Although a porpoise or a seal or even a Sturgeon are a more likely candidate for the sightings rather than a giant eel, as eels are not known to surface.


All these possibilities are very true. I cannot deny the influence of environmental and physical conditions. Perhaps I will sit and talk with that person again and ask about these factors. As of now, the evidence strongly suggests that he was not hallucinating. Let us take a look at these points:
1. How can 4 people share the same hallucinatory experience with such remarkable detail and consistency.
2. All of them are trained army men (trained for survival techniques in high altitude), also two were experienced outdoors men and avid hunters.
3. They did not see a fleeting glimpse or a blob of black in the snow but observed the animal in detail at a close quarters (50 m distance). They also did remember tiny details such as the color of the hair and the large male genitalia of the animal.
4. Most importantly, they were not aware of any such animal to exist, not even in stories. So, to imagine one needs to atleast know the physical form of such a creature.
5. Lastly, you missed the account of the local Sherpa man, who claimed the very next day that a Yeti has stolen a sheep from his flock. Evidence that a Yeti was in the area. Knowing well enough that he will not be compensated for naming a predator which was not on the official list.

As for tangible evidence, it was 1980s India and the army was not that well equipped. A camera would have been a luxury item not a necessity back then.

Also, I feel that the Yeti's image has been much maligned by the so called Big foot researchers and cryptozoologists. The comparison and similarity of the Yeti with the American urban myth brings bad rep to any Yeti sighting or claim. I feel less inclined to believe in the Bigfoot. Perhaps I am biased, perhaps rightly so because there seem to be a whole menagerie of monsters in America. Aliens, vampires, muslim terrorists and all that....not much credibility there.....

A loch is a lake and/or a sea inlet. Which means it could have
access to sea. It may also have underwater caverns or connections to other lochs.

It is true that the witnesses may have been under hallucination or not due to extreme weather conditions but it still lacks concrete evidence of the existence of Yeti. Even though they have a good reputation since they are soldiers lack of knowledge in fauna and distortions due to extreme climate.

 

[Edge45]

A loch is a lake and/or a sea inlet. Which means it could have
access to sea. It may also have underwater caverns or connections to other lochs.

I agree with you,

The lochness monster does have a resemblance of a Pleisoraus, and they were abundant during Mesozoic Era, so when the mass extinction happened, some could have survive deep within waters, and since the landmass on that time were not the same as today, it may be possible that the loch is a once sea, and the creature may have evolve to fit its conditions when it reached present period.
Though some part of me don't believe such thing exists, because even if they survive the mass extinction, they can't have survive the Ice Age, and since its in the northern hemisphere, thats way worse.