Canyon Of Death

[Moderator]

10:48, 6th Oct 2015
Shadow Fury: Approved with a rating of 3/5. The map offers another way of playing a melee game in an unique style where you have to run some risks and take important decisions that might affect the whole game. Similarly to an RPG, you have to take your chances to get big loots from might creep camps and discover a few secrets. Play this with the AI or alone; both ensure a thrilling gameplay.

The scenery looks attractive and conveys the right feeling of a barren land. I'd say that some areas are far too restricted and could use of some expansion to facilitate the movement of large armies. Tile variation is also required in specific zones where the grass tile appears to be overwhelming.

Overall the map deserves an approval. It can still be improved though but that falls to the user's decision.

 

[Wasabee]

You map is really innovative. What a unique way to create melee maps which makes it more interesting to play with.

 

[Shadow Fury]

Outdated review

TERRAIN The terrain was generally well done. In most areas, the tiles were manipulated efficiently and the doodads were pretty good as well. The central part really gives a feeling of a canyon and the raisings/lowerings were used wisely. The only things that disappointed me are that there are large areas of grass tile only and that you never used the rock tile. It's a canyon so the rock tile was expectable. Overall the certain was decent and satisfies the basic terrain requirements CREEP CAMPS AND ITEM DROPS There is seriously a catastrophic pandemonium in here! The creep camps you put suit more an RPG map but not a melee map. The first creeps I stumbled across were the wyvern rideless (no problem with them, they are useless though) and... A Forgotten One! What the hell was a Forgotten One doing in a melee map? It's a 6000 HP monster with 12 HP regeneration and strong skills. This monster was used for a campaign because it was suitable for that map type, but for a melee map, I don't really think so. Next RPG-ish creeps were the ones at the right of the map. A Doom Guard with Zerglings?? I can understand the Doom Guard but not the massive number of zerglings. Their quantity must be reduced. Final thing about creep camps is that the Taverns are guarded. It's wrong to do so because if a player wants a tavern hero as a first hero, he'll not have free access to the Tavern as there'll be creeps defending it. Now I'd like to talk about the item drops. They were a total disaster as well. They are all specific item drops with an excessivenumber of Tomes of Power being dropped. Some items are even higher in level than the creep dropping it e.g Tome of Power level 8 dropped by a level 9 Enraged Wildkin. Overall in this category there's a very huge mess and it crucially needs to be fixed. LAYOUT OF THE MAP The map isn't really that symmetric but it is well-balanced. The terrain, however, feels pretty restricted, especially at the center of the map. Having a closer look, I found tiny ramps leading to a high place where there is a tower from which I can use "Reveal". That was really a cool feature! The way you hid the path to the towers was absolutely great. Despite this, you have to widen all restricted ramps (not the ones leading to the towers) to ensure that army fights will not be hampered by too small battlefields. OVERALL RESULT Eventually, the map really needs immediate improvements. Although the map has a decent terrain and layout, I'll have to give this map 2/5 and vote for rejection as the creep camps and item drops are totally unacceptable.

 

[cherusker]

Hi Shadow Fury!

Thank you for your attention and critic!


In generell your negative comments - espesially about CREEP CAMPS AND ITEM DROPS - are convincing me - if it would be a melee map! I think I should had not defined the map as a melee map. So that is a fault. OK. You point less or more out that it is not a melee map, i got it. So now it's not a melee map but a strategic/risk Map. Maybe I am just a bad melee map designer therefore.

(I appreciate the importance of following definitions, they make sence)

"There is seriously a catastrophic pandemonium" Haha.. yes. and no, coz since it's no melee map no more, it's just a pandemonium?

At first I let you know, that I (I think so ) knew in most cases what I did. I am not in filling the formal needs as usually known but to change it creativily. And I ckecked the map many times with the AI. As you said, it's well-balanced, just because I spend a hell of time for that. If it works there it will supposingly work with hman players too, although I am curios to know about those experiences from you while playing it.

Besides the tavern i.e. the placement of the Goblin Laboratory, which is selling an Infernal Juggernaut, directly near a goldmine is a bold thing, too. I know that and as a player it gives you new opportunites and new dangers: You have to watch it, invisible enemies may buy one there.

The kind of dropped items are because of the strong creeps around. I got the experience that to overcome the forgotten one you need to be strong. Especially the AI need them, because the creeps are quite strong and if the AI player is to weak he will "starve to death". And because before sweeping away the Forgotten One or getting through the pit you don't encounter the other party and can't probably getting stronger while killing their hereos. The strong creeps then are needed to win time, to prevent virtory with only rushing. But I will admit that the chosing of the itmes is not at all well done. Thats why I please you to play it to experience it.

"ensure that army fights will not be hampered by too small battlefields." I just can say, that I had no problems. My AI enemies had no problems, too. Using the possibilites of the terrain here is to make sure that the battles are happeing in the plain next to the middle goldmines. At least I do so. You can support that strategie with towers at the higher leveled plain, placing landmines at the entrances of the canyon and at the pass to the plain where the second goldmines are, to cover a retreat. The middle plains I made for the battles. I many times, with good timeing, have been able to place neatly an army with all it means like distance and melee firepower properly orderd there to give the incoming enemy a warmly welcome.

I am glad to hear that you like the path to the towers and the towers. Funny, that I am still not sure, wether the Reveal towers are needed. But It shows you one of the ways I like to design: Adding nice and new features because they are nice and seeing what they are good for, of course with some sence.

So at all thanks for your advices and I hope that map will be approved because now "as the creep camps and item drops are totally unacceptable" is meant for a melee map, its not a melee map no more.


Btw: "The first creeps I stumbled across were the wyvern rideless (no problem with them, they are useless though) and... A Forgotten One! "

I wonder how's that. Hence you made all the way to the canyon at nighttime, letting all the former creeps alive, don't gathering their items? (Coz the creeps on that way are sleeping) Did you level up before? If you leveld up to a certain firepower you can bet, that the AI enemy is at the Forgotten One too. If you did not, you may quite for sure fail to overcome the Forgotten One then. You got a bloody nose with a straight forward strategy, huh? That's what I wanted )

Thanks, apcrabnightlive,

hope you enjoy playing it.

 

[cherusker]

This map is not causing errors.

 

[Orcnet]

Back to pending.

 

[Shadow Fury]

Map approved based on my new review.

 

[cherusker]

Thanks so much, Shadow Fury



@all: It might be interesting, that I designed it (all my maps) only with the commen AI of Blizzard controlling the enemies. I observe their actions and behavings on my map and change the map (and in case the data of the enemies) to get a meaningful balance according to my goals of the map-play. (i.e. just a few meters moving a goldmine can change everything) The advantage is that I have all the time the same circumstances to test all possibilites. The biggest hindrance or challange is that the AI is so stubborn fixed to rush. A clear disadvantage is that I only can imagine how an enemie played by a human would react or act in that map, hence i may miss some things, but i hope, not too much. It's an exciting process of developing a map.

 

[cherusker]

updated to version 1.01

mainly because of better balancing the drop items at the creep spots.