Blood Elf Race - Custom

[mortalgod]

Unsure of where else to place this, but I am asking for help, using the editor, so..yeah.

I'm making a custom race, based on The General's Blood Elf Unit model Pack and the Mechanical Man's Building Model pack. Because I have no idea how to model. At all. Not even remotely. I need your advice on a few things. Mostly the Techtree.

So far, I've used Human buildings and units for a template.

Techtree

Game Start: Town Hall; House (Farm); Barracks, Watch Tower (Scout tower, non upgradeable. Used only for Vision. Can see stealth.)

Building a Barracks unlocks the Lumbermill.

The Lumber Mill unlocks the Blacksmith and Archery Range (Ranged Production Building), Your Second Tier Builder Unit (Builds more Complex things and costs more which I will explain later) and Half of the Pikemen.

The Second Tier Builder Unit can now Build Guard Towers, Hall of Champions (Heroes. This will probably be dropped down to the first tier unit), Your item shop.

With the Hall, you can Build the Sol Sanctum, which produces Caster units and is considered the "Keep" of tier items. It Unlocks Advanced War Training (which allows Guardians. Essentially Mountain Giants, complete with Taunt, minus Tree killing) and the Fortress. Which is the third tier building and is a huge point defense. It does fire back at you. Can target up to 4 at a time. The model is huge and its expensive, though, so its hard to spam them. The Sol Sanctum also contains the "Ultimate Unit Unlocker" upgrade, but requires a fortress to research.

The Blacksmith unlocks the siege Workshop, which produces dainty butterflies. Also contains basic upgrades for All armor (all units share the same armor upgrade. This will be divided; I just got lazy) Pikemen upgrades, All other melee units and building armor.

The Fortress unlocks the Blessing of the Sun Goddess (aforementioned Ultamite Unit unlocker), Can be upgraded from the TH (experimental. I may just keep it a separate building) and allows Research for the Air transport and anti air (I can't get the AA -AG combo to work) and unlocks Lancers and Pikemen. Pikemen are the Upgrade for the Swordsman (footmen) and Lancers are essentually Knights, but Stronger. They are recruited in the Stables (also unlocked with the fortress). Pikemen can Spellsteal.


Units:

Melee: (In Order that they are Unlocked)

Swordsmen. Lower HP than normal Footmen, but have critical strike (crit hits for 34ish) and evasion. Costs more than regular footmen. Has Medium armor to provide help against archers, which you oddly cannot evade.

Guardian: Cleave, Resist Skin, Taunt. Less HP than Mountain Giant. Doesn't hit as hard, either.

Pikemen: Upgrade to Swordsman. Has Spellsteal and possible crit strike. Can cast spell steal 5 times at max mana, twice when first produces. Fast mana regan (1)

Lancer: Meant to be brought alongside the Pikemen, they do a ton of damage, move fast, but have lower HP than Knights. Despite being called Lancers, they use Swords.

Ranged

Archer. Nothing special, at all.

Slaver: Expensive unit that can Instant Shadowmeld, Ensnare, and have envenomed weapons. Can learn Shadow Strike.

Phoenix Archers: Searing Arrows. 150 initial mana, 400 max. Average mana regan (.55). Can get Liquid Fire.

Caster

Sorceress: Casts heal. Can learn Control Magic and Bloodlust. (going to change it to "Inspire" eventually.)

Wizard: Can cast Flame Strike. Can learn curse and cripple.

Siege

Ballista. Nothing special.

Sunfire Blaster: The Ultimate Unit. Moves very slowly and fires slowly, but is extremely tough and does 350/3.00 to buildings, 175/3.65 to units. Not to expensive, but massing them would be very difficult unless you're ignored for a while.

Workers

Slave: Builds Town Hall, Barracks, Farm, Lumber Mill, Blacksmith, Archery Range, Watch Tower, Stables. Can be used as Militia if attacked, without converting. Has lower HP and lower gold cost than other Workers.

Architech: Builds Sol Sanctum, Guard Tower, Fortress, Hall of Champions, Siege Workshop. Has more HP, costs more, but has hardly any attack. (Takes longer to chop wood)

Heroes

Battle Priest: Paladin. Healing Wave, Devotion Aura, Divine Shield, Death and Decay (all custom spells. Only difference is effects and buffs: Stats remain unchanged)

Champion of Sol: Warrior. Storm Bolt, Evasion, Shadow Strike, Metamorphasis.
Storm Bolt and Meta changed. Stats unchanged.

Archmage: Flame Strike, Incenerate, Siphon Mana, Phoenix. Like Before, unchanged stats, but custom Phoenix, Flame Strike and Incenerate. Also, the Phoenix egg has immolate (perm) and Phoenix fire.

Eyes of the Goddess: Ranger. Searing Arrows, Crit Strike, Trueshot aura, Starfall. Custom Searing and Starfall.

Looking for real criticism. Not "Omg you suck lolol". Will upload this race when I get all the tweaks and bugs hammered out.

Edit: File Uploaded as map. The Custom Race is at the bottom right Island, protected from the AI.

Edit2: Credit to The Mechanical Man (the buildings), The General(the units), ikillforyou(the Goblin War Zepplin), cavman (the wretched). I think thats everyone. One of the houses is by kitabebe, not sure if its the one I ended up using though.

Edit3: House by Shadow_Killer

Edit freakin 4: Adamnt fxd (the Sunfire Blaster) by anarchianbedlam

edit 99999: paulh made the craftsman (architech)

 

[mortalgod]

bump for great justice

 

[Pharaoh_]

So what's your need? :I

 

[mortalgod]

So what's your need? :I

Criticism.

 

[Michael Peppers]

Arright, need serious criticism? Ok, here you go.

First of all, I like your gameplay ideas and they really look like they're gonna work out great. Love the idea of providing flying transports for the races, but that's not gonna work well (if at all) with AI, take that into consideration.

Now, a bit of bug-spotting/suggestions/stuff-I-learned-from-doing-custom-races, read all of it, as I maybe am a little too picky when testing and blunt when speaking, but I know what I'm talking about. (And I just spent 2 hours of my life reviewing your map)

General:

1. Starting with 2 bases and 10 workers and the modifications on goldmines etc... I know this is just an unfinished "demo", but it looks more like a reckless "testing camp", and looks count, believe me.
   
   
2. Credits: never forget to credit creators of models, skins, code etc. in the map, in a visible or very accessible place without having them bother people. Both the map loading screen and the missions menu are good places to do this, though the screen works only for a small list. I know this map is just a WIP, but if you don't put credits for stuff when you exactly add it, well, you'll probably forget some credits accidentally. (Happened to me )
   
   
3. "Build", not "Construct". Yeah, pretty common mistake, happens if you're not using the english version.
   
   
4. Uhm... just a curiosity... this is gonna be a lot different from blizzard's standard melee, right? I mean, different upgrade system, tiering, hero training and function and less units to choose from? If it's so and you manage to do it right, it's gonna be interesting.

Units & Heroes:

1. Seriously, I like the unit concepts a lot, but... you know what? They're just a good model + fitting, but already existent, plain wc3 spells. That looks like a reshuffle of Wc3, even if the game mechanics are a tad different, not a real deal. Anyway, to be honest, also my first attempt of making a Blood Elf race was exactly like this... well, except for the "good models" part and the mechanics, of course. (Didn't have internet at the time to pick up models) =)
   
   
2. Adding to that, heroes' skills are practically 3/4 shared with their existing counterparts, bad thing. (Only 2/4 for the "Paladin", but Healing Wave (I don't remember if it's called like that) doesn't really change much.)
   Also, they are unlimited and 2 of them have food costs, which means 2 of them don't.
   
   
3. Active, high damage spells on casters? For melee, like Kyrbi0 used to say, that's a no-go. Ah, that counts also for Shadow Strike on Slavers.
   
   
4. No food used by units? Well... no limit on units, right? Oh well, I guess that's intentional. (That's just me, I tend to hate advanced units being spammed)
   
   
5. Nitpick: Eyes of the Goddess's description. Too long, lacks the "attacks" part and the "Train" string doesn't have the hotkey marked.
   
   
6. Magi and Wizard Adept/Master stuff: not working. Also they have extreme amounts of mana for being units... heck, I'm sure a lot of heroes don't arrive to those numbers even at level 10.
   
   
7. You can order workers to build buildings on top of eachother. (Fortunately, they refuse to when near the other building)

Models/graphic stuff:

1. Loved the fact you want consistency between buildings, that's nice, though those building models are not in the same style as the in-game ones and that really is a bit of a pain for the eyes, but I see from the map you've seen that and are trying to replace the in-game ones with more fitting models. Sorry, but I don't think there are enough models to replace all the in-game buildings, it'd be just easier to use buildings that stick well with Wc3's style... anyway, that should be your call and not mine. (Also, their portrait and build animations are amateurish (even I could do them better) and most of them lack a good collision shape in the birth animation, so they're difficult to select when they're being built)
   
   
2. Slaves: No camera, no icon. (well, almost) Putting a fixed "Portrait" camera facing his head with Magos' and doing a screenshot icon may not be the perfect solution, but it should suffice. =)
   Also, that model's not suited for workers unless you get someone to model-edit it for that role. There are other, better suited models/skins for slave workers.
   
   
3. Phoenix Archers, Swordsmen, Magi and 2 heroes: No DISicon.
   
   
4. Archer: that model has a custom icon by LiOnEsS (or something like that), y' know. Also, I use that model too. =)
   
   
5. Ewww, let me tell you that, Guardian's model is pretty bad.
   
   
6. Pikemen and Guardians: too similar model-structure-wise and animation-wise.
   
   
7. Arcitech: No camera. Also, if that isn't a nice play on words, that's "Architect".
   
   
8. Ballistae: Ballista's icon (from RoC) is hidden inside war3.mpq, if you know the path to it, though, you can use it.

Also, I thought you might be interested in looking up my mod a bit for inspiration and advice, it's called "The Withering Kind".

 

[mortalgod]

Ok, ignore the last upload. I've messed around with it. Now the techtree is much more streamlined and I've cut the building count down to 11 and made the towers upgradable rather than separate. I also added another Air Unit to help streamline it, and changed most of the spells to custom spells and got rid of the second worker. To avoid bothering the crap out of everyone, I won't reupload the fixed version yet.

They're all basically Slave Driving Zealots who revere the Sun Goddess, Sol. They don't build Walls, and most of their tier 1 troops rely on Evading attacks rather than absorbing them. Most of them have Inspired Strikes (Critical Strikes) and attack fast, but have low overall damage (if they didn't crit). Every single unit (Organic) can Frenzy.

What do you think so far?

 

[Michael Peppers]

What do you think so far?

If you're referring to the testmap... shortly speaking, what I've seen has the feel of a good start, but lacks looks and substance.

If you're referring to this...

They're all basically Slave Driving Zealots who revere the Sun Goddess, Sol. They don't build Walls, and most of their tier 1 troops rely on Evading attacks rather than absorbing them. Most of them have Inspired Strikes (Critical Strikes) and attack fast, but have low overall damage (if they didn't crit). Every single unit (Organic) can Frenzy.

Good ideas for the overall race, units like this do give a blood-elven feel to it, but I fear not having food costs will make unit distinctions pretty useless later in-game.

Anyway, I will test new versions and provide feedback when you post them and if I find the time, 'cause... well, it's promising.

 

[mortalgod]

If you're referring to the testmap... shortly speaking, what I've seen has the feel of a good start, but lacks looks and substance.

If you're referring to this...


Good ideas for the overall race, units like this do give a blood-elven feel to it, but I fear not having food costs will make unit distinctions pretty useless later in-game.

Anyway, I will test new versions and provide feedback when you post them and if I find the time, 'cause... well, it's promising.

The no food was just for me, they'll have the Human unit food costs (Footmen 2, Knight 4, etc).

What do you mean they lack looks and substance? I admit the buildings are very...drab, but I can't find very many Blood Elf like buildings. I'll be changing those as I find the correct models for them to help them shine. What do you think I could do to help improve that?

and I'll post the new stuff tomorrow, probably after 6 (EST). I spent most of today working on changing the techtree and, well, the previous post. Plus, I made the trigger for a custom race, but not the advanced one. Rest of tonight is for testing. And sleep, I guess.

 

[Michael Peppers]

For buildings, for now I suggest you to use either this pack by SinisterX or the one by Elenai, though the latter is too high-elven themed.

As far as substance goes (and I refer to the testmap), units and their concepts are fine for the race as is, but heroes like those are just... well... too half-assed, focus your attention on making them really unique.

A tip, PM VeljkoM about entering the Race Creators group and show them this thread, they are competent, helpful and full of good ideas, and will surely give you some good feedback and advice.

 

[mortalgod]

I can't for the life of me get either of those textures to work. war3mapImported, none, and Textures don't work.

Any suggestions of the heroes? I wanted to use Templates (Paladin, Warrior, etc) so as to avoid being Overpowered. Plus, Blizzard, uh, really has those classes and ability's covered well.

 

[mortalgod]

Reuploaded. Again, bottom right Island. The main feature of this one is to show the new techtree, including new upgrades, modified gold and lumber costs, and minor unit changes. (gave the swordsmen 150 more HP. They died too quickly)

I'm very much aware of the multitude of Grammar and tooltip Errors. I will fix these asap, along with Hotkeys.

Warning: Lots of new green boxes. I now know how to fix these...Its just a matter of getting around to it.

edit: Theres a Goblin Zep on the North side of the Island incase yours dies. And all your bases on the main island are destroyed. Theres also one in the water. Just cause.

Would someone mind taking a look at the trigger for me? It should be custom uploaded with the map. Its not working correctly.

I know theres no victory or defeat conditions. When I get closer to finishing the race, I'll try to trigger the advanced Custom race start. Jass ftw ftl ftl ftw ftl.

 

[Michael Peppers]

I can't for the life of me get either of those textures to work. war3mapImported, none, and Textures don't work.

Elenai's models? Textures go on none.

Any suggestions of the heroes? I wanted to use Templates (Paladin, Warrior, etc) so as to avoid being Overpowered. Plus, Blizzard, uh, really has those classes and ability's covered well.

Sorry, after thinking of mine, I can't come up with more BE hero ideas. But you can consult wowwiki. Start with reading the Blood Elves' article, ("Culture" and "Alignment" parts are the most important imo) then delve deeper into the wiki. I'm sure hero ideas that can co-exist with Blizz's heroes well without being unoriginal/IMBA will pop out pretty easily.

Would someone mind taking a look at the trigger for me? It should be custom uploaded with the map. Its not working correctly.

Sure, show me.

 

[mortalgod]

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...8/how-create-full-working-custom-race-119435/

Its supposed to look like that one. I made mine for Human, but it doesn't work so far.

Do you know of a place to download sound files? So that my swordsmen can have custom Sound files. Would love them to sound more...Zealous. Crazed, maybe.

 

[Michael Peppers]

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...8/how-create-full-working-custom-race-119435/

Its supposed to look like that one. I made mine for Human, but it doesn't work so far.

Compared with yours in the map, the If/Then/Else is out of the Player Group loop by mistake. Happens with GUI.

Do you know of a place to download sound files? So that my swordsmen can have custom Sound files. Would love them to sound more...Zealous. Crazed, maybe.

Duh... no... normally people do unit voices only on commission for projects, so there're no Wc3 soundsets available around afaik. But maybe Google may rule me wrong.

 

[mortalgod]

Know anyway to fix it? The Trigger. Where to put the correct line?

I fixed the heroes. I wasn't really able to do much, since I went with the "Sun" and "Religious" aspects, of which the blood elves don't really fit. However, I changed all of their abilities, for the most part, and replaced the archer with a different mage.

 

[Michael Peppers]

Know anyway to fix it? The Trigger. Where to put the correct line?

This is part of the trigger in the example: (working)

• Player Group - Pick every player in (All players) and do (Actions)
  • Loop - Actions
    • If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)

This is yours: (not working)

• Player Group - Pick every player in (All players) and do (Actions)
  • Loop - Actions
• If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)

You have to drag the If part into the loop (if that is possible in GUI) or rewrite it to be inside the loop.