Best way to create a staircase?

[Galatius]

I've found plenty of stair models in the models section, but none that work perfectly on their own as a staircase.

I tried using walkable destructibles, but they don't overlap perfectly even after removing pathing textures. Doodads overlap much better, but they aren't perfectly walkable (units go through them, not on top of them).

I'm assuming the best approach is to place a framework of doodads on top of a framework of invisible destructibles so that the staircase looks and functions correctly.

Any better approaches?

 

[AyeKantSpel]

The best way I've found so far is to use elevators, just raise and lower them in the editor to create the stair effect, though they are rather large, invisible platforms work as well, though it takes more time to place those and add something on top of those to give a floor instead of walking on air. Be sure to put sides on your stairs or else a unit coul walk off the edge.

 

[Galatius]

Thanks for the tips, AyeKantSpel.

The specific challenge that I am struggling with is that I want a partially spiralled staircase (one that bends 90 degrees). I am finding it very difficult trying to place the invisible platforms in just the right places since they don't overlap as perfectly as the stair doodads.

 

[Bernkastel]

You could try switching one of your tiles to the alpha tile and then use raise tool to make the ground fitting for your staircase, making it smooth and not super jumpy like invisible platforms.

 

[AyeKantSpel]

Well it won't be super jumpy if you make them close enough heightwise, but the problem there would be space; especially with the massive form of the elevators.

On the spiral staircase I can't help you sorry, although I might be mistaken but isn't there one in the UTM?

 

[Galatius]

Thanks for the suggestion, Bernkastel. I thought about using MAT, but I don't fully "get it" (I recently posted a question about it here: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/terrain-board-267/mighty-alpha-tile-what-exactly-does-do-227486/)

If I understand the MAT correctly, it basically allows me to create invisible terrain. But wouldn't this make it impossible to create a staircase that units could walk under as well as on top?

(I do realise that it is very difficult to create a staircase using doodads and destructibles that units can walk under and on top, but at least it is possible)

 

[Bernkastel]

Oh, you wanted it to be possible to walk under it aswell?

It doesn't work in that case, that's true.

 

[vuongkkk]

I think it has 2 ways to create a pathing for a non-pathing doodads:
- Use "Invisible Platform"

like this

- Create your own pathmap

 

[sonofjay]

Staircase? You can make one by just using one invisible platform(its proven sir, i use it on my project)

 

[Galatius]

vuongkkk - thank you so much for taking the time to take some screenshots of how to use invisible platforms! However, I am still struggling to use invisible platforms properly. I can use them just fine with cliffs to make it possible for a unit to run up a cliff. But when I use them with doodads (like stairs) they never work properly. I place the platforms just under the doodads, but units still run through the doodads instead of on top of them.

sonofjay - please explain how you made a staircase with just one invisible platform.

 

[sonofjay]

To lazy to explain, just take my open source map here:

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/2258702-post92.html

 

[vuongkkk]

ack, seem you dont know we can use Ctrl + Page Up (Page Down) to raise Invisible Platform to the height you want

 

[Galatius]

To lazy to explain, just take my open source map here:

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/2258702-post92.html

Awesome looking map! Where exactly is the staircase with a single invisible platform? I found a number of different staircases, but none of them with any invisible platforms.

 

[Galatius]

ack, seem you dont know we can use Ctrl + Page Up (Page Down) to raise Invisible Platform to the height you want

Yes, I know how to raise and lower objects. But my invisible platforms don't function no matter what height I raise them to. Units walk straight through them whether I have them just above, just below, or exactly in line with the doodads that I want to use as stairs.

 

[sonofjay]

Awesome looking map! Where exactly is the staircase with a single invisible platform? I found a number of different staircases, but none of them with any invisible platforms.

*sigh* check the destructible path, find the p10 pathing or something like that or find the pathing that have a default model, go to the other p*number* and copy their models then paste it on the pathing that have the default.

 

[Galatius]

*sigh* check the destructible path, find the p10 pathing or something like that or find the pathing that have a default model, go to the other p*number* and copy their models then paste it on the pathing that have the default.

None of that made any sense to me, but thanks for trying to help.

 

[Bernkastel]

That's an attitude that I cannot understand. Why do you tell about the possibilities of doing things like that in the first place, if you're not willing to explain it properly?

 

[sonofjay]

That's an attitude that I cannot understand. Why do you tell about the possibilities of doing things like that in the first place, if you're not willing to explain it properly?

I threw him the map where what he is asking was made, all he need to do is to do some little stuff, he just need to copy paste one data or just set the needed model on the pathing blocker and boom he got what he wants, i can't tell the model name a while ago since i'm busy and damn there are instructions on the trigger editor as far as i'm concern.

But sure just to help the lazy who are only waiting for an answer from a busy person set the model file of "p" and "p10" to InvisiblePlatformsmall b.mdx(or something similar to that).

Oh Bern, don't worry I also can't understand why people like you have that kind of attitude who jump on a thread, say some stuffs but not even helping.

@Galatius

Try hard next time. Not every time you need help, someone will look at you and help you.

 

[Bernkastel]

I have no time to chitchat with petty worms like you.

I gave my opinion on these things and provided as much assistance as I saw fit.
I do not have the slightest interest to turn this into a battleground, thus I will just withdraw from this place.

 

[Celaquil]

I agree to some extent that there no purpose in saying "There is a way" without even helping,
that's pretty much the same as saying anything and not helping, essentially being off-topic.

- That, and there's a difference between being "lazy" and "uninformed."

Certain people who's recently, or not recently, become members of this site have a hard time navigating the forum,
which is understandable considering it's size, that and it's their given right to ask questions.
- As much as it's not your given responsibility to respond,
hence simply ignore the thread entirely if you're not interested in helping on the subject.

And yes, simply providing a map and expecting the other party to fully understand what to do with it is simply... Unhelpful.

My experience concerning stairs, and other elevated or path-able doodads is that it's going to be a bitch,
no matter how much you practice, unless there's some magical trigger/jass thing you can perform to make it easier
- in which case I cannot help.

What I find both easiest and most efficient is using the elevator, alternatively the bridge, destructible's and replacing the
"Model File" part with whatever doodad you want to use. Then use pathing-blockers surrounding the edges to disable the
player from walking off the given platform.

To make a 90 degree staircase, I reckon with a bend, you'd have to make two doodads facing different directions, seeing as
the elevator doodad has "pre-set rotation" and there's nothing to do about that, far as I know. You'd also want to remove the
"Replacable Texture" thingy, setting it to "none" and likely remove the shadows... yadayadayada.

As a final note, having pathable doodads that can be walked over and under is completely impossible as far as I know,
unless you perform some magical trigger-trick and if you're really that desperate there is a trigger section,
where you might find more... Qualified clientele.

 

[Galatius]

@Galatius

Try hard next time. Not every time you need help, someone will look at you and help you.

It doesn't matter how "hard" I try if I literally don't understand what someone is telling me to do because I am still very new at this.

I'm willing to bet that you could probably have answered my original question (i.e. how to create a staircase with just one invisible platform) in less time than it took you to be unhelpful and condescending.

 

[Galatius]

@ Keiji

I echo your sentiments regarding the trickiness of creating a spiral staircase. Even with doodads (which are easier to position than destructibles), it still isn't very aesthetically pleasing. I suspect the only definitive solution would be to create a custom model with the appropriate pathing - something well beyond my capabilities!

As for the invisible platforms ... I have no idea what I am doing wrong. I can use them just fine with cliffs (i.e. enable units to walk up otherwise impassable terrain) but I can't get them to work with doodads. Obviously I have removed the pathing textures from the doodads, but no matter where I position the invisible platforms (above, below, or in line with the doodads), units always end up walking through them rather than on top of them.

 

[Bernkastel]

All you need to do is raise the platforms with ctrl + pg up so it's just above the doodad and it'll be walkable.

 

[Galatius]

I've tried that - it still doesn't work!

I am using the "Wall Low" doodad (with pathing texture set to none) as a stair. I have placed five of them, one in front of the other, to form a vertical line. Then I have adjusted the height of the stairs to form a staircase.

After placing the doodads, I covered them with small invisible platforms. The only setting that I changed for the platforms was increasing their maximum scale so that I could make them big enough to fully cover the stairs. I raised all of the invisible platforms so that each platform was positioned just above its overlapping stair.

Every time I test the map, units run straight through the stairs instead of up the invisible platforms

In the exact same map, I have another staircase made out of walkable destructibles and it works just fine. But I'd still love to know what the heck I am doing wrong with the invisible platforms!

 

[Bernkastel]

I have never modified invisible platforms myself. It's hard to tell if that may cause some adversities.

 

[sonofjay]

Here let me tell you how I did it with pics.

If you have the patience to import the invisibleplatformsmallb.mdx on the map i linked then continue reading.

First go to world editor and copy paste any kind of bridge/ramp data.

Then change its data value to this:

Image 1

Then think of what direction you want your staircase face. I mostly recommend this number: (45 degrees, 90 degrees, 135 degrees and so on.) Since its the easiest.

Now place the invisible platform

Image 2

You might be wondering how in the hell that platform becomes like that, well you can adjust max roll angle (degrees), on this one i used the value of -0.63(to make a value negative simply hold shift and press enter or double click the data you want to change)

The next thing is thinking the theme of your stair, its really up to you and you can use any models that can look like a stair, i think there are some default doodads that you can use, but for this i'ma use a model on RiR.

Now just simply place them like this:

Image 3

and continue until you make a stair

Image 4

here is a in-game screenshot

Image 5

Much easy isn't it? Took only 1-2 mins if you get the hang of it.

 

[Celaquil]

I have to say, looking at your instructions sonofjay,
I find "path-able" destructible's mixed with pathing-blockers easier and more efficient.

- Though I did neglect to mention that while setting up your destructible's you should be holding down "shift,"
as this will make it somewhat easier (yet not as easy as a normal doodad) to place, seeing as it
will make the destructible ignore some of the otherwise blockage the pathing of the doodad will create.

Now, when you've made your staircase in this fashion, there's nothing really stopping you from using doodads
with no pathing to... Decorate the stranger parts of the staircase, should there be any.

 

[Galatius]

@ sonofjay - Thank you! Very clear instructions. I still don't know why my invisible platforms aren't working, but I will try importing yours. Did you create all of the custom models in your map?

@ Keiji - I think walkable destructables are definitely a better option for straight staircases. But a spiral staircase requires careful positioning of the stairs that doodads are much better suited for than destructables (unless, of course, you create your own custom spiral staircase stairs).

 

[~Void~]

Your problem with the doodads is, I think, not because of the fact that they're doodads, but rather the models themselves. Try using destructible models as doodads, such as the Icecrown/Ruins walls. Also, Dalaran Double Columns work really well too.

If that doesn't work for you, try making some invisible ramp-shaped doodads and placing them overlapping your stairs.

 

[Galatius]

Thanks, Void, I'll try using destructable models as doodads. Making an invisible ramp is way beyond my ability, but I appreciate the suggestion.