Battle for Helms deep(BD

[Moderator]

19:28, 13th Aug 2010
ap0calypse: Rejected

 

[yakonshus]

In suggested players, never post a guild name or "happy players" write the amount of players in the map. I found myself missing a Helms Deep map, so i'l download this one.

 

[galendumle]

I cant start it!?

 

[sentess]

Updated (GO

 

[galendumle]

it looks like a realy nice map but... IT DOSENT WORK!!

 

[Vuormalainen]

doesnt work

 

[sentess]

erhmm i will fix that now

 

[balnazar123]

do you have to play online to lett the orcs attack?

 

[light bolt30]

Fix the description; keep changelogs in hidden tags, add screenshots so we can see what's the difference between this version and all the others.

 

[takakenji]

Fix the description; keep changelogs in hidden tags, add screenshots so we can see what's the difference between this version and all the others.

stop being lazy and look at the map

 

[WOWWARS]

newbie reviewers that dont even play the dang map...

 

[light bolt30]

The terrain is very plain... You should add more variation to it rather than just use one tile set..

A good description can set a good impression of the gameplay of the map, I can usually tell the how good the terrain and gameplay from it, also the preview tells alot of how you did your terrain.

 

[sentess]

The terrain is very plain... You should add more variation to it rather than just use one tile set..

I know that Gandalf's terrain part is kinda lazy made... I changed it in the version go that apperently did not work.. But Helms deep? What do you want there.. As I tried to stay very movie focused. It's mostly dirt.
So now that I uploaded an older version that I edited abit yesterday by adding new spells, I will take a look on it in the upcomming week

And... How do I make hidden tags?

 

[ap0calypse]

newbie reviewers that dont even play the dang map...

Excuse me? I don't play maps to moderate them either...

 

[Raging Ent]

[off topic] ap0calypse pwned WOWWAR's head for 260 gold! [/off topic]

 

[WOWWARS]

lol but that really anit reviewing...

 

[Raging Ent]

He's not a reviewer he's a moderator, reviewers make reviews, moderators read reviews, approve/decline according to several reviews.

Atleast, that's how Ap0c works.

 

[sentess]

-Update-
Fixed some fail writing I made a year ago..
Added a new spell

 

[ap0calypse]

lol but that really anit reviewing...

I'd say it's even worse: I decide whether a map is rejected or approved without playing/opening the map, yet reviewers describe the map (according to you, without playing it either ).

But Naro is correct: if I would review all maps that need moderation, then there would be thousands of pending maps (okay, now it's not that much better with 900+ pending maps, but that's because of the lame system xD).
That's why I base the moderation status on reviewers (I can also choose reviews, just like the reviewers themselves).
Although I sometimes do review a map, but then it has to be a map that I find interesting enough to play for at least an hour (can vary depending on the map, but usually I play for an hour or two before writing my review).

We're going off-topic though...

@Sentess: improve the description.
A description will lure people into playing your map (believe me, it really does).
It's like a movie with an awesome cover/trailer.

 

[-Kobas-]

Hmm lets see

Things that I like:
1st - Well you imported sounds so Sound Editor must be used
2nd - LOTR sounds
Things that i don't like:
1st - Map Description
2nd - There is no Map Preview image or loading screen
3th - Import manager looks terrible (just 2 many wav sounds that eat space -.-)
4th - Terrain is very poor
5th - Memory leaks

• Events
  • Unit - A unit enters Exit Cave <gen>
• Conditions
• Actions
  • Unit - Move (Triggering unit) instantly to (Center of Out of Cave <gen>), facing 0.00 degrees

6th - There is no sounds for some text in cinematic
7th - Abilities are terrible (some don't have, description check picture)
8th - Triggers are really bad -.-
9th - Work in Object Editor can be better

1/5 Vote for Rejection

 

[sentess]

Hmm lets see

Things that I like:
1st - Well you imported sounds so Sound Editor must be used
2nd - LOTR sounds
Things that i don't like:
1st - Map Description
2nd - There is no Map Preview image or loading screen
3th - Import manager looks terrible (just 2 many wav sounds that eat space -.-)
4th - Terrain is very poor
5th - Memory leaks

• Events
  • Unit - A unit enters Exit Cave <gen>
• Conditions
• Actions
  • Unit - Move (Triggering unit) instantly to (Center of Out of Cave <gen>), facing 0.00 degrees

6th - There is no sounds for some text in cinematic
7th - Abilities are terrible (some don't have, description check picture)
8th - Triggers are really bad -.-
9th - Work in Object Editor can be better

1/5 Vote for Rejection

1st. I want to protect myself and the map by saying, that I can't remember why I did not add the desception.. It is at least a year ago that I made most spells... But in the upcomming week, I will make a complete arsenal of custom spells. Have patience
2nd. Yes I know the terrain aint the best..... And I have also improved alot since then, but as I in fact wrote in the desription at a time was, I re-uploaded an OLD version of the map cuz the new one did'nt work.. It just could'nt get hosted.
But anyway... I would very much like you to go into details instead of saying the terrain is just bad... Give me an idea of what you want to see.
3rd. I keep the triggers simple, and I will still intend to do that, even if you would think it was bad. Sorry.

All in all... I will fix some things, remake some things, in the upcomming weekend. As I said.. Have patience
And please... Just tell me what you would like to see, instead of saying the terrain is bad.. Give me an idea.. And yes sometime when my exams is done I got an idea for a new helms deep keep.

 

[ap0calypse]

3rd. I keep the triggers simple, and I will still intend to do that, even if you would think it was bad. Sorry.

Memory leaks isn't about simplicity, it's about lag - ever played a TD/Maul and wondered why it starts lagging mid-game? It's because of the memory leaks that get piled up.
Even if you don't feel any lag, there will almost certainly be a noticable FPS drop after a while.
Though I do suggest more complex triggers when you're working on other maps (and certainly for cinematics).

About the terrain, this is something I wrote for someone else, yet it may still help you:


I'll give you a few hints on how to improve the terrain.
The hints I give are absolute standards and should always be followed, under any circumstances.
I've opened your map in the world editor and took some screenies of the terrain to prove my points.

General Terrain

​

1) Tileset

Choose your tileset carefully: a combination of about 3 or more different types of grass for forests is not a luxury.
The tileset is the base of the terrain, it's very important that you learn to combine tilesets that look good together (note that some of the edges of tilesets can be different when next to another type, you need to think about that too: what looks good next to what?).
Most people start out with 1 or 2 different types of tileset that don't match eachother, then go to randomly placing a few tilesets that do match eachother and then finally, after some practice, can succesfully combine tilesets and know where to place them.

Tileset

What we see here is white marble, some ruined ground and a bit of grass.
What is this supposed to be? There's nothing here, yet there's marble (if you know what marble is, you should also know it doesn't appear like this).
Can you honestly say that this is a nice terrain? I can't.

2) Transition

This part also belongs to the tileset somehow.
When you're creating a terrain and you're using different tilesets, make sure that they are mixed and that you can't see any clear border.

Transition

I see 3 lines here: dirt, grassy dirt, grass.
Now these tilesets could go well together (though you probably need a few more), but the issue here is that I can clearly see where you started with the grassy dirt and where the grass,
If you had mixed these tilesets, it could've been a lot better.

3) Cliffs

Try not to use cliffs (in the terrain palette: apply cliff: increase/decrease one/two).
Cliffs could be used when you actually need a cliff, but when you need a mountain of some sorts, or a wall use the raise land tool or doodads.

You should also never use the standard water-tools for the terrain, there's a far better (yet more complicated) option to create water.
Cliffs could be used when you actually need a cliff, but when you need a mountain of some sorts, or a wall use the raise land tool or doodads.
The thing here is that you need to create a new map in order to make this work, I don't think you can adjust this when you've already made your map.
What you need to do: when creating a new map, there's an option called "Initial Water Level", if you set this to "shallow water", you start off with your terrain completely under (shallow) water.
Afterwards, when the terrain is created, you should raise the land (not with the cliff tool!) so it is slightly above waterlevel (it should look like land on the minimap, but may not be too high).
When this is done, click the "apply height: plateau" tool and drag it all along the terrain, starting from the little patch of land, now the entire terrain should be above waterlevel.
To create a river now is very easy: lower the terrain and you've got water - this can be done to create puddles, rivers, sea, whatever you want.

River

This is obvious: it doesn't look like a river at all, the cliff at the bottom of the image has nothing to do with the rest of the terrain, the upper cliff might be used (Norway has similar cliffs for example), but it shouldn't be too straight.

Doodads:

​

1) Spamming doodads

Doodads may never be spammed, you can place a lot of environmental doodads (such as shrubs), but never overdo it.
A lot of people spam things like rocks, waterfalls or fire, but that is not the point of doodads.

Waterfall

As you can see here, the waterfall has been largely spammed and put into the right direction.
If you want to make a nice waterfall, you only use a few waterfall doodads, some rocks and a good-looking hill with a variating tileset.

2) Cinematic Doodads

Cinematic doodads should only be used in rare occasions and should never be spammed.
I know it is very flashy and might be appealing to some, but believe me: it looks far from good.
The fire is probably the most used cinematic doodad and I really don't care if it's used in the right places (a burning house for example).

Cinematic Effects

This is the definition of how you're not supposed to make a terrain.
I think epileptic patients will get a seizure once they see this.

3) Random doodads

Never randomly place doodads.
Doodads are supposed to add some additional beauty to the terrain, not to make it chaotic.

Random doodads

I see: spikes, 2 types of fountains, walls, a cage, crates, barrels, bats, an egg sack, a skull on a pole, demonic footprints, some poisonous brew, a support collumn and maybe a pillar (top right).
Do I need to say anything else?

4) Emptiness

Empty terrains are very ugly, if you compare older or less professional maps with higher quality maps, you can immediately see that the higher the quality of the map, the less empty the terrain looks.
This is because, usually, people who know how to map, also know that the terrain is a major part in the entire game: I don't like playing on empty, bad terrains.
The solution? Environmental doodads! These are the most useful doodads and your map should exist out of about 70-80% environmental doodads (and trees are probably the second most used doodad).
A tree doodad is just a tree, nothing special, but once you add a bit of shrub and mushrooms underneath, it makes it feel more realistic.
Yet again: do not spam these either... they can look good in greater numbers than most doodads, but that's no reason to spam them.

Empty terrain

Sad, isn't it?

Additional:

​

1) Weather/Fog

These are main ingredients when creating a cinematic and shouldn't be forgotten in other maps either.
There's no need for a weather effect (in fact: please don't touch it if you don't really know what you need to do with it), but a (triggered, not weather) fog can drastically improve how a terrain looks, or the 'aura' it gives off.
Creepy maps need a darker fog, happy maps a light one, you can make it change for day/night purposes, you can change it depending on the region you're in.
Basically this decides what kind of map you're playing

To make a default fog: go to Scenario -> Options, there you should see the option "Use Terrain fog", set style to "Lineair" (nothing else) and choose your color.
You probably need to lower the starting Z as well (about 1000, or even less if you want), otherwise you won't see a lot of the fog.

2) Sky

You seriously don't need this if you don't use camera's that have an angle of attack of at least 330 degrees...
In cinematics however, it decorates the entire terrain and - if it matches the cinematic theme - it really expresses the general idea.

 

[sentess]

Well... I know how to make terrain.. I read your whole thing though, not to make it a waste... I can't upload the map where I made the good terrain though, first it is'nt done cuz I gave up due to some strange bug removing all sound from the map.. Tried everything to save the map, I even had other people look at it.. I can give it to you to prove that I can make a good terrain, and I will make this look better.. It's just a matter of time.

And if you could direct me to any memory leak guide..

 

[-Kobas-]

Tutorial

I think that this one will help you to solve many problems!

 

[Cweener]

Reject.
Yeah, the posts above are pretty much my reasoning here.