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Tzi

Tzi

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Hi there,

This is a very unusual question 4 this site, but you definately would know it best:

Is there any successful alternative to the WarCraft III World Editor? (I don't like Starcraft 2, cause of the future theme)
I loved it to work with it, but it just haves too much limitations:goblin_cry: (just 4 example the limit of 100 floating texts).
I'm the kind of guy that spend so many time on a map till it will be close to perfection^^
And the World Editor gave me so much problems that I mastered with unusual ideas that the big bunch of unclean coding broke connectivity and performance (but I keep giving on my ideas, because if I wouldn't, the game wouldn't be that game I would want to play).
Maybe I'm just too bad in this editor (everything's possible), but @ the moment I started to wait for WC4:vw_sad:
 

Tzi

Tzi

Level 4
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Thanks a lot 4 the link, but it's not only things like the 100 floating text limit. It was just the 1st thing I remembered. In additional, I don't like the fixed tooltips, the maximum of units that can move together without stop/move problems, the leaks that can't be removed, the performance problems with a lil' bit higher number of 0.05 sec triggers, the low possibility to inplement his on stats >.<
They can't be avoided, or am I (and I hope that so much) be avoided?
 

Tzi

Tzi

Level 4
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I don't think that the community is primitive, but you can be sure that I'm thinking that about you, gorillabull.
In addition, my computer has an eight-core (3,6 GHz each core and 8GB RAM). So it's not the problem of my computer. If you haven't done a map that does more than just letting a unit move some steps left and right then yet, you don't know these problems.


@ Waterknight: I know that^^ Sorry that it didn't wrote this clear enough. But those problems of the game engine suck really, really hard for me. If you would want to change these you wouldn't be able, cause you can change some options, but not the installed game caches and datas of the other players:ogre_hurrhurr:


In the end it was just a QUESTION! (am I right, gorrila-I-don't-give-a-fuck?)
It would be possible that there's an editor I don't know:grin:
 

Tzi

Tzi

Level 4
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Messages
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You can avoid those things using a brain, not an alternative editor.

Again such a fail post. Then I'll use YOUR brain.
How can those be avoided while they are essential for the map?
Give me a SUCCESSFUL answer.

- 100 floating text limit: How am I able to give a combat text for each player (10) that won't instantly fade out cause the other's made enough damage events that needs those floating texts?

- How can I tell the owner of a hero the correct numbers that ability slows / does damage / etc. while it is buffed by attack damage or something like this without resetting the cooldown of the ability (cause of giving a new one) or letting the players type a command to get a triggered chat answer?

- How can I let a higher number of units move without this game engine problem that is letting them stop to move all the time?

- How can I remove leaks that CAN'T be removed?

- How can I use more than 7 ESSENTIAL 0.05 sec periodic triggers without causing lags online cause the game don't want it?

- How can I add additional stat types to attack damage, armor and the 3 attributes? Maybe I want to give armor and magic resist? Maybe I want to add a critical strike chance percentage without changing the 3 attributes (strenght, agility, intelligence)?

I'm sorry that I'm not that kind of guy that just makes a half of a game he wanted to create and not a complete game he wanted to create.
 
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The idea was more like creating concepts that do not get in conflict with the engine.

- 100 floating text limit: How am I able to give a combat text for each player (10) that won't instantly fade out cause the other's made enough damage events that needs those floating texts?

Do you really need to display 100 fading text tags on the screen? I mean that rapidly volatile tags that would not spawn beneath the local player's camera do not really have to be created, do they?

- How can I tell the owner of a hero the correct numbers that ability slows / does damage / etc. while it is buffed by attack damage or something like this without resetting the cooldown of the ability (cause of giving a new one) or letting the players type a command to get a triggered chat answer?

? Storing the values in triggers beforehand - or what do you mean?

- How can I let a higher number of units move without this game engine problem that is letting them stop to move all the time?

Maybe reordering, ordering in groups or customizing movement.

- How can I remove leaks that CAN'T be removed?

Which do you have in mind? There are those but it's not like you could so easily kill your pc with them.

- How can I use more than 7 ESSENTIAL 0.05 sec periodic triggers without causing lags online cause the game don't want it?

It most-likely won't be the timers consuming too much performance but the actions they trigger. But yeah, you can merge timers to have less running or you scatter them on different time outs to spread the stress.

- How can I add additional stat types to attack damage, armor and the 3 attributes? Maybe I want to give armor and magic resist? Maybe I want to add a critical strike chance percentage without changing the 3 attributes (strenght, agility, intelligence)?

You only need to get the idea how to display them. In my map, you receive information in a multiboard when you select a unit.

I'm sorry that I'm not that kind of guy that just makes a half of a game he wanted to create and not a complete game he wanted to create.

Well, then you should not build maps for existing games and rather program your own game. Even then, you are restricted by the computer's limitations and the operating system. You may do them as well. However, what about the power supply and basic laws of nature? Maybe connect the player's brain and neurals to your system in order to determine one's perception.
 
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You certainly fail to understand the concept of map making.
My suggestion is - quit as soon as possible before you do something rather stupid.

The simple fact that you cannot accept criticism as it is on this very moment will be critical when (if you ever) start making a map.
The editor is all about jumping over limitations.. Shit, it ain't nothing like it.

As to that you accept every less offendable post as a fail, I'm certain that you'll start to curse every second
user that attempts to show you the flaws into your very own map.

If you are not ready for this, you'd better not get into it.
 

Tzi

Tzi

Level 4
Joined
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Messages
57
You certainly fail to understand the concept of map making.
My suggestion is - quit as soon as possible before you do something rather stupid.

The simple fact that you cannot accept criticism as it is on this very moment will be critical when (if you ever) start making a map.
The editor is all about jumping over limitations.. Shit, it ain't nothing like it.

As to that you accept every less offendable post as a fail, I'm certain that you'll start to curse every second
user that attempts to show you the flaws into your very own map.

If you are not ready for this, you'd better not get into it.

Really xD
If you simply would have given a constructive answer I wouldn't have to answer to you in the correct way.
What you had posted was simply an adolescent phrase.
You simply have no need to answer it. I'll ignore it anyway.
Just the fact THAT you wrote it says that you aren't smart enough to get the problem with it. And you won't get the missing intellect to get the right mind just in a few days.


The idea was more like creating concepts that do not get in conflict with the engine.
I understood it that way^^

Do you really need to display 100 fading text tags on the screen? I mean that rapidly volatile tags that would not spawn beneath the local player's camera do not really have to be created, do they?
Cause it has to be a multiplayer game where it's possible to deal splash damage and give damage-over-time spells or heal-over-time spells. Because of that it's really common that the maximum floating text limit will be hit very often. And the floating text limit will still be fixed on a hundred floating texts, doesn't matter if it's local spawned or not -.-
I wrote some threads about this problem in the past in a few mapping-forums.

? Storing the values in triggers beforehand - or what do you mean?
e.g. the tooltip of the ability Blizzard. You can write that it will deal "X damage" or will deal "X damage + X% of the attack damage". But cause the tooltips will be set in the loading screen you aren't able to change the values in the tooltip with triggers while the match has started. That's a very big problem for me. And I haven't found a successful solution.

Maybe reordering, ordering in groups or customizing movement.
Sounds interesting. But what correctly would happen? Do you mean that all units groups are ordered to move "that way"(array) every X seconds?

Which do you have in mind? There are those but it's not like you could so easily kill your pc with them.
At the moment I can't remember, I just remembered that they exist and it annoyed me a bit^^
Just planned a lot for the map a longer time and weren't focussed on mapping itself anymore while searching for solutions for the other problems.

It most-likely won't be the timers consuming too much performance but the actions they trigger. But yeah, you can merge timers to have less running or you scatter them on different time outs to spread the stress.
There was a(n)...
- Health Point Regeneration System
- Mana Regeneration System
- Knockback System (not Pushback)
- Movement Speed System
- DoT System
- HoT System
- Buff System
- Debuff System
- Chain System
...and some other's like this there were a little bit smaller important. The Health Point and Mana Regeneration Systems where activated as long as every hero had not the maximum point pool.
The Knockback System worked as knockback, jump (or something like this) and special effect helper (e.g. to let frozen shards do a circle going close to the other's and smashing after all to the ground), and so on. So the rest was just enabled if something happened with them actually and instantly are turned off. I played my map with many testers and the connectivity broke cause of the many systems that where needed for the gameplay style of my map. Maybe it was bad coding, I don't know. But I really can't imagine that it was that issue, cause I wrote them as small as possible and as efficient as possible (I've read many existing systems, threads and tutorials).
But I think an ability that knockes enemies in all correct directions dependet on the position of the knocked unit to the caster, that will also increase the movement speed and the life regeneration of the caster for a time that depends on the strenght of the hero, a ((agility / 1.43) + armor * 1.(enemy debuff reduction percentage))% slow for each hit enemy with a duration of ((agility / 14) * 1.(enemy debuff reduction percentage)) seconds, will do many operations at a very little moment.

You only need to get the idea how to display them. In my map, you receive information in a multiboard when you select a unit.
I know that, but the multiboard is needed for displaying the team stats.
Else it would have been a nice solution.
And to do it through the chat is a very, very ugly method. And you can't create so much passive abilities to let the stats displayed this way (even cause of the fact that there are many decimals). In addition, this is a very, very ugly method, too xD

Well, then you should not build maps for existing games and rather program your own game. Even then, you are restricted by the computer's limitations and the operating system. You may do them as well. However, what about the power supply and basic laws of nature? Maybe connect the player's brain and neurals to your system in order to determine one's perception.
That's still a nice idea I'm thinking about. But it also can be solved a MUCH easier way with having the time to implement all entertaining and needed parts. I don't want to determine the perception of the players. And I'm not able to counter your "Maybe connect the player's brain and neurals to your system in order to determine one's perception." Everything I would answer would sound like an offense, cause it has been written as an offense. I have no need for this. gorillabull and MortAr where enough waste of my lifetime.
I'm searching for a solution of a problem and not for a reason to, as we both are able to say it in german, "den Kopf von jemandem zu waschen" (sorry, but I imagine find the right translation for it). Just like everyone else in this forum I want to HELP others and get HELP from others when it's needed.
You can be sure that I tried MANY ideas and techniques to solve every problem on my own or with the help of some existing threads or tutorials.
 
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Cause it has to be a multiplayer game where it's possible to deal splash damage and give damage-over-time spells or heal-over-time spells. Because of that it's really common that the maximum floating text limit will be hit very often. And the floating text limit will still be fixed on a hundred floating texts, doesn't matter if it's local spawned or not -.-

Of course it matters if it's local or not because as I have said, you could spawn only these where the player is currently looking at. So you are basically saying that seeing 100 text tags simultaneously is not enough. However, that's strong information overflow.

e.g. the tooltip of the ability Blizzard. You can write that it will deal "X damage" or will deal "X damage + X% of the attack damage". But cause the tooltips will be set in the loading screen you aren't able to change the values in the tooltip with triggers while the match has started. That's a very big problem for me. And I haven't found a successful solution.

The only chance to display long strings would be a multiboard, would it not?

Sounds interesting. But what correctly would happen? Do you mean that all units groups are ordered to move "that way"(array) every X seconds?

Was only a guess whether the engine could handle that better. Try it yourself. By custom movement I meant to move the units via SetUnitX/Y/etc.

There was a(n)...
- Health Point Regeneration System
- Mana Regeneration System
- Knockback System (not Pushback)
- Movement Speed System
- DoT System
- HoT System
- Buff System
- Debuff System
- Chain System

Regeneration, DoT, HoT do not need small intervals. Dunno where you require them in "Buff", "Debuff" either. Guess by "Chain" you mean the update of lightning positions attached to units and the like. Movement Speed System?

I know that, but the multiboard is needed for displaying the team stats.

If you do not need these two things simultaneously, you may implement a multiboard switch. I have also combined a few things this way like general game stats, unit stats, options.

I have no need for this. gorillabull and MortAr where enough waste of my lifetime.

Considering your replies you seem to like wasting your time quite yourself. Having said this, this will be my last contribution to this thread if your attitude stays this way. We do not know your exact scenario. What you recognized as an offense of mine was more of a joke telling you that of course your imagination is greater than what can be done, thus demanding compromises and adjustments.
 

Tzi

Tzi

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Messages
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Of course it matters if it's local or not because as I have said, you could spawn only these where the player is currently looking at. So you are basically saying that seeing 100 text tags simultaneously is not enough. However, that's strong information overflow.
Kind of what information overflow? You mean coding information or mean the performance (my favorite):wink:


The only chance to display long strings would be a multiboard, would it not?
But is it possible to make a "button mouse over"-trigger? Then it would be a really good solution. Just clearing the multiboard while that and rebuild when the mouse leaves the button.


Was only a guess whether the engine could handle that better. Try it yourself. By custom movement I meant to move the units via SetUnitX/Y/etc.
I'll try, but I have very lightly memoirs that I have tried it that way.


Regeneration, DoT, HoT do not need small intervals. Dunno where you require them in "Buff", "Debuff" either. Guess by "Chain" you mean the update of lightning positions attached to units and the like. Movement Speed System?
I know that you can do Regeneration, DoT and HoT with >1.00 second intervalls or something like this. But it looks really, really ugly.
That's no regeneration anymore. It more feels like a heal over time.

Nope. Chains like Chain lightning or Heal Wave. But this wasn't a big problem.

Every hero and unit had a movement speed equal to 0. The movement speed was always set when the unit buys an item that grants movement speed or gets a slow / buff. I just wanted to be able to do everything possible that handles with movement speed.


Considering your replies you seem to like wasting your time quite yourself. Having said this, this will be my last contribution to this thread if your attitude stays this way. We do not know your exact scenario. What you recognized as an offense of mine was more of a joke telling you that of course your imagination is greater than what can be done, thus demanding compromises and adjustments.
I'm sorry Water, but I can't hear your voice and I'm not able to see your facial expressions. Without a smiley or something like that it's very difficult to sort it as a joke:wink:
Anyway I'm sorry for it. It would given more sense to be a joke, because you have answered the whole thread decent and constructive. But I simply wasn't smart enough that moment to get the right idea:ap:
 
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Kind of what information overflow? You mean coding information or mean the performance (my favorite):wink:

Information overflow for the player, when there are 100 numbers on the screen. It even interferes with the sight and text tags may overlap each other, therefore becoming unreadable. I have this problem myself in my map because I create them for every kind of effect: physical damage, heal, magical damage, mana heal, mana burn, casting spell, buff expires, life leech, bounty drop, evasion, critical, invulnerability ... It's a mess, especially with AoE-effects.

Over time-effects could be merged for example. You just have a single text tag for the whole duration that slowly fades away and sums up the overall damage caused every interval, same text tag changes its content.

But is it possible to make a "button mouse over"-trigger? Then it would be a really good solution. Just clearing the multiboard while that and rebuild when the mouse leaves the button.

The only real thing that allows onMouseOver are trackables. And those have their very own problems and are not natively screen-related.

I know that you can do Regeneration, DoT and HoT with >1.00 second intervalls or something like this. But it looks really, really ugly.
That's no regeneration anymore. It more feels like a heal over time.

Well, you specified 0.05 as troubling. Could be 0.25-0.5. This actually is a good situation for splitting up the task among multiple timers since the complexity is not constant, more like rather high. So heal one half of the units on period, the other one on period+period/2.

Every hero and unit had a movement speed equal to 0. The movement speed was always set when the unit buys an item that grants movement speed or gets a slow / buff. I just wanted to be able to do everything possible that handles with movement speed.

I do not see the periodic event in here :> When you said Movement Speed System I thought of something like the unit gets gradually slower while walking up a steeper-becoming mountain. That would be of more like no direct event. Still, really frequent timers are mostly only needed for local stuff.
 

Tzi

Tzi

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I do not see the periodic event in here :> When you said Movement Speed System I thought of something like the unit gets gradually slower while walking up a steeper-becoming mountain. That would be of more like no direct event. Still, really frequent timers are mostly only needed for local stuff.

You're right. I took a look on this system and I have had removed the periodic event anyway^^
Thanks for the help:grin:
 
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