Alternate Timeline - Arthas Never Becomes The Lich King

[kakuzu]

It is a strong posibility but what about Tichondrius ? Originary , Illidan consumed the skull to defeat Tichondrius . Will Illidan do that again ?

 

[cleavinghammer]

Sure, or use Tichondrius as the obstacle the orcs need to go fel orc to defeat.

 

[Arrr]

i liked the Uther idea
Arthas may come back after the northrend campaign not yet fully corrupted, and Uther decides to take his burden, becoming slowly the lich king

 

[Xanur21]

Update on the Alternate Timeline:

Okay, so this is what I have so far. You're welcome to expand on an idea, contest it, or suggest new ones.

• ‘Future Jaina’ gets confronted by ‘Present Jaina’: ‘Present Jaina’ is removed.
• Jaina stops Arthas from culling Stratholme.
• Kel’thuzad gets killed by Arthas and Jaina.
• Kel’thuzad’s remains are kept by the heroes.
• Kel’thuzad’s soul latches onto Uther’s hammer. Uther gets corrupted and slowly corrupts other paladins to form Death Lords, shortly after Arthas’ departure to Northrend.
  
• Jaina and Arthas travel to Northrend to defeat Malganis and save Muradin.
• A human army gets dispatched to Northrend. Muradin is ordered to stay in Northrend to monitor undead activity as well as keep an eye on Yogg-Saron.
• Muradin still uncovers Frostmourne after Arthas and Jaina leaves Northrend. Frostmourne is magically contained in the Capitol.
• Arthas returns to Lordaeron victorious. Remaining Scourge and plagued towns gets detained and quelled. Death Lords offer resistance.
• Death Lords recover Kel’thuzad’s remains and go into hiding.
  
• Thrall and Grom leave for Kalimdor.
• Remaining Orc Clans in the Eastern Kingdoms revert back to worshipping 'Demon Masters'.
• Mannoroth makes a blood pact with remaining Orc Clans, changing them into Fel Orcs.
• Fel Orcs lay siege to Dalaran to recover Medivh’s Spellbook.
• Thrall and Grom establish a base in Kalimdor with Tauren.
• Word of corrupted orcs reach Thrall and Grom, Grom returns to the Eastern Kingdoms to offer resistance.
• Grom learns of Frostmourne’s existence through Uther, similar to Illidan learning about the Skull of Gul'dan through Arthas.

Now I have a few questions I would like some feedback on:

1. Should Uther or Grom replace the Lich King?
2. Should there be a Lich King, or should the Scourge get influenced by Yogg-Saron, as previously suggested?
3. Should Quel'Thalas be attacked again? What would the reason and outcome be?
4. Should the conflict between the heroes and Archimonde still pan out on Kalimdor?
5. Should another Legion character join the conflict, for instance Kil'Jaeden?
6. What's the story with the Night Elves?

 

[kakuzu]

Uther should become the Lich King .

 

[DD Mikasa]

If you decided to make Uther the new villan I guess he deserves the honor of becoming the new Lich king...But its kinda meh...It would have been much more better if Uther and Arthas fought together...Uther seems way to honorable and devoted to get courrupted imo...

 

[cleavinghammer]

Yeah, I just can't see Uther become Lich King or even fall victim to corruption. Apart from that the rest looks good, and Grom should definitely become Lich King.

How about this instead: To involve Quel'thalas, have Jaina explain the situation to the high elves before the mission where she joins Arthas. Kael'thas agrees to help out, and joins in killing Kel'thuzad. Kel'thuzad haunts Kael (maybe the elves decide to keep his remains to be on the safe side, as they've been hearing rumors about humans turning to necromancy).

This can then open up new possibilities, like the summoning of the demon lords being a possibility again, trying to conquer the east before heading west for the World Tree, or even corrupting the Sunwell as they intend to do to Nordrassil.

As a side note, you should consider having a level playing as the Cult of the Damned to show how/why the cult took hold in the first place (taxation, conscription, people just losing hope...)

 

[DD Mikasa]

Cleavinghammer idea might be really useful to you.I sugest considering it.

 

[Xanur21]

Yeah, I just can't see Uther become Lich King or even fall victim to corruption. Apart from that the rest looks good, and Grom should definitely become Lich King.

How about this instead: To involve Quel'thalas, have Jaina explain the situation to the high elves before the mission where she joins Arthas. Kael'thas agrees to help out, and joins in killing Kel'thuzad. Kel'thuzad haunts Kael (maybe the elves decide to keep his remains to be on the safe side, as they've been hearing rumors about humans turning to necromancy).

This can then open up new possibilities, like the summoning of the demon lords being a possibility again, trying to conquer the east before heading west for the World Tree, or even corrupting the Sunwell as they intend to do to Nordrassil.

Sounds good. I had an idea for a mission that involves Quel'Thalas, I just wasn't sure how to include Quel'Thalas. I really like this idea.

As a side note, you should consider having a level playing as the Cult of the Damned to show how/why the cult took hold in the first place (taxation, conscription, people just losing hope...)

I was planning to do this campaign in a series of smaller campaigns, i.e. have a different campaign for the different races, so that one can experience it from all angles.

 

[kakuzu]

What will happen to Mal Ganis ? Arthas used Frostmourne to kill him .

 

[cleavinghammer]

^ Thing is, Arthas only went to Northrend because Mal'ganis forced him to murder an entire city. If the Culling doesn't happen I don't know if he really has a role. Maybe serve as agent between the Legion and Kael?

Quel'thalas continued (why do I only get ideas when I should be paying attention in class?): Jaina brings Sylvanas along to Northrend (in a cutscene, telling her that if Arthas starts showing interest in Frostmourne, Sylvanas is to shoot him dead), leaving Uther and Kael to stand guard.

Kel'thuzad starts corrupting Kael (possibly playing on his jealousy or having Arthas behave like Garithos Jr. towards him), helping him orchestrate minor demonic summonings across the kingdoms thanks to the Cult, possibly training other elves in secret to draw power from demons instead of the Sunwell. Uther has to stay in Lordaeron to keep them down, so Kael can cause more outbreaks in Quael'thas.

Eventually the elves hit on the idea that maybe keeping a dead necromancer around isn't a very good idea. Kael publicly agrees, and in a grand ceremony, purifies Kel'thuzad's ashes by... dumping them in the Sunwell.

Kel'thuzad returns as a lich, the Cult starts a massive demonic summon in the heart of Silvermoon, coinciding with the fel orcs attacking from outside. Once the city falls, Kael, Kel'thuzad and Grom head towards Dalaran for the book (or try to summon Archimonde from the Sunwell's ruins).

 

[kakuzu]

Interesting plot . What about Tichondrius ? We know that he was some kind of a guide for Arthas after he was corrupted . What would he do now ?

 

[cleavinghammer]

Do the same for Grom, I imagine. Though this might lead to more friction between them than with Arthas, since Grom doesn't seem the type to enjoy being bossed around (by Tichondrius or Nerz'hul).

Also, what can Kul Tiras do (apart from massive refugee fleets to Kalimdor)? Maybe Thrall and Jaina can try to settle the same city?

 

[kakuzu]

I remember that Jaina father , Admiral Proundmore hates the orcs .

 

[cleavinghammer]

Yes, so he can be counted on to stay in Lordaeron until the fel orcs are gone, and can prevent them from heading west if/once the continent falls.

Which brings us back to the naga. The Legion recruits them to break the Kul Tiras blockade or at least allow the three evil heroes to get to Kalimdor, in exchange for eradicating the night elves after (their mutual goal) and promising them all of Kalimdor once that's done (the latter, of course, the Legion has no intention of keeping).

 

[Xanur21]

What will happen to Mal Ganis ? Arthas used Frostmourne to kill him .

If decided that Arthas should hunt down Mal'Ganis, he would have to find a strength within himself to defeat Mal'Ganis. Maybe delve deeper into the powers of the Light, after finding himself through Jaina's guidance.

^ Thing is, Arthas only went to Northrend because Mal'ganis forced him to murder an entire city. If the Culling doesn't happen I don't know if he really has a role. Maybe serve as agent between the Legion and Kael?

Arthas went to Northrend to hunt Mal'Ganis down, because he believed that Mal'Ganis was behind the Cult of the Damned and the Scourge, which was all a facade to lure Arthas to Frostmourne. Maybe with new info from Jaina, Arthas could leave Mal'Ganis for now, and focus on strengthening the forces of Lordaeron for later when the rest of the Legion would strike.

But Arthas would also know from Jaina that Muradin is in Northrend. He would have to go to Northrend to save Muradin.

Quel'thalas continued (why do I only get ideas when I should be paying attention in class?): Jaina brings Sylvanas along to Northrend (in a cutscene, telling her that if Arthas starts showing interest in Frostmourne, Sylvanas is to shoot him dead), leaving Uther and Kael to stand guard.

Hm, the whole idea of this timeline is to keep Arthas alive, but that would make an interesting 'cover' to get Sylvanas out of Quel'Thalas.

Kel'thuzad starts corrupting Kael (possibly playing on his jealousy or having Arthas behave like Garithos Jr. towards him), helping him orchestrate minor demonic summonings across the kingdoms thanks to the Cult, possibly training other elves in secret to draw power from demons instead of the Sunwell. Uther has to stay in Lordaeron to keep them down, so Kael can cause more outbreaks in Quael'thas.

Eventually the elves hit on the idea that maybe keeping a dead necromancer around isn't a very good idea. Kael publicly agrees, and in a grand ceremony, purifies Kel'thuzad's ashes by... dumping them in the Sunwell.

Kel'thuzad returns as a lich, the Cult starts a massive demonic summon in the heart of Silvermoon, coinciding with the fel orcs attacking from outside. Once the city falls, Kael, Kel'thuzad and Grom head towards Dalaran for the book (or try to summon Archimonde from the Sunwell's ruins).

This could definitely work. Make Quel'Thalas fall from the inside. That way the remnants of the Elves could still join the future Alliance, because it was one of their own that caused the fall, and not the Human Prince.

Interesting plot . What about Tichondrius ? We know that he was some kind of a guide for Arthas after he was corrupted . What would he do now ?

Do the same for Grom, I imagine. Though this might lead to more friction between them than with Arthas, since Grom doesn't seem the type to enjoy being bossed around (by Tichondrius or Nerz'hul).

The Dreadlords, including Mal'Ganis, could always band together again, and lead the front for the Legion in the Eastern Kingdoms, like they ruled Lordaeron before Sylvanas rebelled and overthrew them.

Also, what can Kul Tiras do (apart from massive refugee fleets to Kalimdor)? Maybe Thrall and Jaina can try to settle the same city?

I'd like to see Kul Tiras burn...

Jaina and Thrall have always been a nice pair for me. But how can trust be established between them once again, if Jaina isn't forced to contend with the orcs to reach the Oracle, meet up with Medivh simultaneously, and then told by Medivh to band together. Jaina already knows the future, so why would she meet up with the Oracle this time? And why would Thrall believe her if she told him she knows the future? Maybe Medivh can instruct Thrall to "find the girl".

I remember that Jaina father , Admiral Proundmore hates the orcs .

Yes, so he can be counted on to stay in Lordaeron until the fel orcs are gone, and can prevent them from heading west if/once the continent falls.

Like I said, I would definitely want to see Kul Tiras burn and the Admiral killed. Hate him. Absolutely hate him.

He could stay in Lordaeron, fight against the Fel Orcs, and die somehow.

Which brings us back to the naga. The Legion recruits them to break the Kul Tiras blockade or at least allow the three evil heroes to get to Kalimdor, in exchange for eradicating the night elves after (their mutual goal) and promising them all of Kalimdor once that's done (the latter, of course, the Legion has no intention of keeping).

If I remember correctly, Ner'zhul turned against the Legion, and eventually the Legion used Illidan, alongside the Naga and the Blood Elves, to destroy Ner'zhul. And this was only after the events of the Third War.

What you are suggesting is that the Naga are recruited to join in on the Third War. Am I correct in saying so?

 

[cleavinghammer]

More or less. If I remember the original lore correctly, the naga were the night elves who consorted with demons. If the Burning Legion came down and offered to basically bring them back to the power they had before the Sundering, I daresay they'd jump at the chance.

Okay, so: the Kul Tiras navy is both blocking anyone from fleeing the eastern kingdoms and making sure any refugees are able to escape. The naga are brought in to loosen the pressure so the three evil heroes can flee the continent, either by attacking the blockade or attacking Kul Tiras itself. If Proudmoore has to die it was as well be defending his own city (naga level?), though I think Jaina will try to arrange matters so her father doesn't die either.

As for Mal'ganis, Arthas meets him in the context of the dreadlord forcing him to kill his own countrymen to save them from a worse fate. If the Culling never happens, he won't be nearly as determined to hunt him down.

How about this: Jaina convinces Arthas (with Uther's help) that Mal'ganis isn't behind the Cult (I assume she's also prevented the whole plague zombie thing), and that it's important for him to stay in Lordaeron. Then they hear about Muradin, and then Jaina recognizes that if she can't keep him from going to Northrend, she'll make damn sure he doesn't turn into the Lich King. Uther and Kael stay behind, Jaina, Arthas and Sylvanas go to Northrend.

As for Sylvanas killing Arthas, frame it as a sadistic choice on Jaina's part: on the one hand, she's gone to all this trouble to keep her man alive, but on the other, she also doesn't want the timeline she knows to repeat itself. So if it comes down to Arthas vs thousands of dead-then-undead...

Thrall and Jaina: At some point Jaina should offer to help Thrall with trying to restore Grom (after all the Northrend/Kalimdor shenanigans). Possibly by having her father in on the meeting, with Jaina telling Thrall that if she doesn't help him, the Admiral will definitely kill Grom. Maybe she could put on the visions light show, he might be more inclined to believe him as a seer himself.

As for the dreadlords, there's an interesting alternate timeline mentioned in this campaign, where Mal'ganis is killed right after the Culling thanks to a cure for the zombieism. Tichondrius in disguise starts setting the nations against each other, arranging for Jaina to fight the orcs headed for Kalimdor and die in battle, then get Antonidas to believe Terenas arranged for her death (and Terenas to think the Kirin Tor came up with the plague). With Lordaeron and Dalaran at war, Archimonde is summoned much faster, and the Legion ultimately kills Illidan since Arthas couldn't tell him about the skull of Gul'dan.

Obviously not all of it's compatible with what's happening here, but drealords impersonating and infiltrating Alliance high command could make things interesting.

 

[takakenji]

this has never been done before

 

[kakuzu]

What about Lord Garithos ? Do you have plans for him ? Maybe you could make his a nice guy or something.

 

[Xanur21]

More or less. If I remember the original lore correctly, the naga were the night elves who consorted with demons. If the Burning Legion came down and offered to basically bring them back to the power they had before the Sundering, I daresay they'd jump at the chance.

That's true. In the original timeline they only 'awoke' after Archimonde was killed. But I guess they can be thrown into the mix earlier in this timeline.

Okay, so: the Kul Tiras navy is both blocking anyone from fleeing the eastern kingdoms and making sure any refugees are able to escape. The naga are brought in to loosen the pressure so the three evil heroes can flee the continent, either by attacking the blockade or attacking Kul Tiras itself. If Proudmoore has to die it was as well be defending his own city (naga level?), though I think Jaina will try to arrange matters so her father doesn't die either.

Jaina will try, but he'll die...

As for Mal'ganis, Arthas meets him in the context of the dreadlord forcing him to kill his own countrymen to save them from a worse fate. If the Culling never happens, he won't be nearly as determined to hunt him down.

How about this: Jaina convinces Arthas (with Uther's help) that Mal'ganis isn't behind the Cult (I assume she's also prevented the whole plague zombie thing), and that it's important for him to stay in Lordaeron. Then they hear about Muradin, and then Jaina recognizes that if she can't keep him from going to Northrend, she'll make damn sure he doesn't turn into the Lich King. Uther and Kael stay behind, Jaina, Arthas and Sylvanas go to Northrend.

This could work. I would definitely want them to go to Northrend again. Especially to save Muradin, and put Frostmourne in again as a temptation of sorts. Grom would most definitely have to take up Frostmourne if he is going to be the next Lich King.

Thrall and Jaina: At some point Jaina should offer to help Thrall with trying to restore Grom (after all the Northrend/Kalimdor shenanigans). Possibly by having her father in on the meeting, with Jaina telling Thrall that if she doesn't help him, the Admiral will definitely kill Grom. Maybe she could put on the visions light show, he might be more inclined to believe him as a seer himself.

I suggested earlier that she reveal herself to only a select few people, including Thrall. Someone suggested that there has to be characters, like Thrall for instance, who doesn't believe her. They could definitely band together again to save Grom. I believe that would be a pivotal moment for their friendship to be established.

As for the dreadlords, there's an interesting alternate timeline mentioned in this campaign, where Mal'ganis is killed right after the Culling thanks to a cure for the zombieism. Tichondrius in disguise starts setting the nations against each other, arranging for Jaina to fight the orcs headed for Kalimdor and die in battle, then get Antonidas to believe Terenas arranged for her death (and Terenas to think the Kirin Tor came up with the plague). With Lordaeron and Dalaran at war, Archimonde is summoned much faster, and the Legion ultimately kills Illidan since Arthas couldn't tell him about the skull of Gul'dan.

Obviously not all of it's compatible with what's happening here, but drealords impersonating and infiltrating Alliance high command could make things interesting.

I was definitely thinking of bringing in different 'agents' to impersonate certain officials, mostly the Bronze Dragonflight disguised as someone to help sway the outcome of the new timeline. The Dreadlords could do this as well.

Then another question:

We've been talking about certain things that could happen, and what happens to which character when, but I'd like to know, where does the Infinite- and Bronze Dragonflight fit in?

In which events would they play a role? How will they aid/ contest the heroes?

What about Lord Garithos ? Do you have plans for him ? Maybe you could make his a nice guy or something.

I haven't really thought of him yet, considering that Lordaeron doesn't suffer such a major blow as before, so he doesn't play such a big role in this timeline.

Where would you suggest we fit him in?

 

[cleavinghammer]

I have no clue who the Infinite Dragonflight are. Are they good guys or bad?

As for Garithos, he could play a part in the downfall of Quel'thalas, like being left behind by Uther to help watch over Kel'thuzad's ashes. He doesn't like the post, he doesn't like the people, and nobody likes him. So when Kael brings Kel'thuzad back, he should be the first to die. Or maybe Kel'thuzad could corrupt him as well, giving the Lich King two agents in Quel'thalas, or the dreadlords mind control him, or...

 

[Xanur21]

As for Garithos, he could play a part in the downfall of Quel'thalas, like being left behind by Uther to help watch over Kel'thuzad's ashes. He doesn't like the post, he doesn't like the people, and nobody likes him. So when Kael brings Kel'thuzad back, he should be the first to die. Or maybe Kel'thuzad could corrupt him as well, giving the Lich King two agents in Quel'thalas, or the dreadlords mind control him, or...

Sounds good. Will put it into consideration.

I have no clue who the Infinite Dragonflight are. Are they good guys or bad?

Infinite Dragonflight - If you have time to read.

Generally they are considered as bad guys, but there are a few theories, as mentioned on the wiki page. I'm not sure yet as to where I stand on this...

Here are a few ideas I liked:

...Yogg-Saron is unopposed, and his corruption can continue, perhaps even seizing control of the scourge itself, and integrating the powerful titan and elemental powers he commands. This benefits the infinite dragonflight greatly, as their existence is dependent on old god corruption.

With the timeline splintered this badly, the Bronze Dragons would have no choice but to aid the evil forces. Either the Legion, the Scourge, or the orcs, to ensure a future where the combined might of Azeroth puts a stop to the old god's corruption in Northrend. I doubt they'd just fly a cadre of drakes into the battle lines of evil, so probably you'd see their aid come in the form of individuals, in disguise, offering little tidbits of advice that help lead things in the "proper" direction. This in turn may gain the ire of the other dragonflights, who would only see a world recovering, gaining peace, and bronze dragons seemingly trying to change that. Hell, the other dragonflights may even team up with the infinites to stop this perceived threat!

And here are a few I suggested:

I like the idea of the Scourge being left unchecked in Northrend and Yogg-Saron corrupting them, but wouldn't 'Future Jaina' know about Yogg-Saron? Maybe this is where the Infinite Dragonflight can start opposing Jaina and the rest of the heroes...

The Bronze Dragonflight aiding the evil forces is genius. This whole time I was just thinking of them as "good" guys, instead of thinking of their true purpose: to maintain the current timelines. This could also build on my new Jaina's personality as a vindictive, manipulative sorceress, driven by her past life's grief and misery, who eventually succeeds in crushing the Bronze Dragonflight for "hiding" this possibility/timeline.

We could also argue that the current Nozdormu is already corrupted, mentally, and actually wanted the Opening of the Dark Portal, Thrall's escape, the Culling etc to happen, in an attempt to create a timeline in which he averts his own demise. The Infinite are actually Bronze Dragonflight from a parallel/ branched off timeline possibility, that got persuaded by Nozdormu to do some stuff that turned them. Nozdormu would then use this Dragonflight as pawns in his current timeline. Adventurers would be sent to kill Murozond in a different timeline, like a "simulated one", or a parallel timeline that only exists as a possibility, parallel to the main timeline, as a distraction. (I don't know, I just feel this guy was too chilled about his death in the End Time after Murozond's defeat, as if that wasn't what the Titans showed him or as if it was never real)

The Infinite Dragonflight keep talking about saving lives and preventing deaths throughout encounters in WoW, so what if we can argue that after Murozond's death, the Infinite Dragonflight that are left, find out they were deceived, and the way things happened, wasn't the way the timeline was supposed to go and was manipulated from the start by Nozdormu to elongate his life.

The Infinite's we faced in WoW, could actually have went back to all these events to prevent their deception in a branched off timeline, by their master. This could also be a reason for them to aid Jaina.

 

[cleavinghammer]

If you're going to have an evil Jaina, then this timeline's should still be around to stop her. Maybe the future one puts her in statis and is broken out by dragons/dreadlords/Medhiv/[insert major power here], and both around to see their father die.

And if we're going to have character alignments change around, could you have Anub'arak freed from the Scourge?

 

[kakuzu]

I suggest to make Garithos a proud warrior of the Alliance .To fight with Arthas side by side to save Lordaeron , maybe ?

 

[Xanur21]

If you're going to have an evil Jaina, then this timeline's should still be around to stop her. Maybe the future one puts her in statis and is broken out by dragons/dreadlords/Medhiv/[insert major power here], and both around to see their father die.

I wouldn't say evil, just hard-hearted. She knows what she wants, and she's going to get it.

And if we're going to have character alignments change around, could you have Anub'arak freed from the Scourge?

Freed like Sylvanas? What would the purpose be in doing so? Where would he fit into the story?

I suggest to make Garithos a proud warrior of the Alliance .To fight with Arthas side by side to save Lordaeron , maybe ?

Could work. He could be a great warrior in the fight against the Fel Orcs.

 

[DD Mikasa]

Freed like Sylvanas? What would the purpose be in doing so? Where would he fit into the story?

The only purpose that Anub'arak would have if he was free from scogure is to purge Northrend from the undead or at least make his people the leading force of Northrend moving Undeads in the second spot.
OR

You can use him as a minore villain who is trying to conqure the northen shores of Lordaeron after he broke free of LK controle and he is trying to find a new home for his people.Either way him being free...Its kinda meh...I never found nerubians an iteresting race.

 

[kakuzu]

What about to make Garithos to become The Lich King ? He would fit the role, he has the hunger for power and the right motives.

 

[DD Mikasa]

What about to make Garithos to become The Lich King ? He would fit the role, he has the hunger for power and the right motives.

To weak to become lich king imo.He is just a juggernaut.Just rushes foward and try's to crush his enemys while Lich king needs to be more sophisticated than him.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Anub'arak could be useful to fight the Lich King's current forces, since he knows the place, or allow them to sneak by guards via tunnels. He likely wouldn't be welcoming to the heroes, obviously, but at least respect a ceasefire.

Garithos I think wouldn't be much good as a Lich King (not credible, certainly), better to leave him behind.

 

[kakuzu]

I agree Garithos wouldnt be strong enough to become The Lich King. What about Thrall to become The Lich King ? I never saw Thrall as a evil hero so it would be very unique.

 

[Xanur21]

I agree Garithos wouldnt be strong enough to become The Lich King. What about Thrall to become The Lich King ? I never saw Thrall as a evil hero so it would be very unique.

How would that happen? What would the motivation be?

I personally feel Thrall is too cool-headed to make a decision like that. He's very calm and collected, and would always find a solution to the problem, no matter how difficult it may be, as long as it's the right thing to do.

Grom and Arthas are perfect examples of the type of characters that would gladly take up Frostmourne. It was easy, and it seems like the best option (power wise), not necessarily the right choice. They act and then think.

 

[kakuzu]

Maybe the vision that prophet sent to Thrall to help him to save his people . Maybe Lich King could fake that vision to manipulate Thrall.

 

[DD Mikasa]

I think the best candidate for LK would be Grom *or* Ilidan if you want to use Night Elfs as well but i am still of my idea that the best candidate for LK would be Grom.

 

[Xanur21]

I think the best candidate for LK would be Grom *or* Ilidan if you want to use Night Elfs as well but i am still of my idea that the best candidate for LK would be Grom.

I agree.

In the case of Illidan, I believe he is more drawn towards demonic powers than any other type. I don't really see him as the undead type. Grom feels like the orc-version of Arthas. Driven. Headstrong. Power-hungry.

On a side note:

I really want to use all of the races in this campaign. Including the Night Elves. I was wondering, could the war stay in the Eastern Kingdoms? Is it necessary for the Legion to attack the World Tree once more? Isn't there something useful they could focus on in the Eastern Kingdoms, so that the Night Elves could maybe travel there?

I just feel like all these changes are brought in with this timeline, that it would be kind of stupid to end it just like the original timeline, i.e. Archimonde attacking the World Tree, with the Heroes of Azeroth making a stand at Hyjal once more.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Medhiv could warn them that the Legion is poised to take the Eastern Kingdoms, and that with orcs, elves and humans working for them, no amount of mass-Detonate will help. Thus the Night Elves go through all the various awakenings a lot faster since the invaders haven't made it into Ashenvale yet, and together with allied races like the furbolgs and tauren launch a rescue expedition to the East (would Thrall have landed at this point?), fighting off Undead from the north, naga from the east and satyrs who've felt their masters returning.

Ideas for what the Legion needs to be stopped from doing in the east: Use Illidan's spell to tear great big holes in Kalimdor, open portals all over the place including the Sunwell and the Maelstrom, summon other demon lords, take over the Emerald Dream, etc.

 

[DD Mikasa]

@D-B-M We are here to discus what would have happend if he diden't become LK not why he deserves to be LK.

 

[Xanur21]

Medhiv could warn them that the Legion is poised to take the Eastern Kingdoms, and that with orcs, elves and humans working for them, no amount of mass-Detonate will help. Thus the Night Elves go through all the various awakenings a lot faster since the invaders haven't made it into Ashenvale yet, and together with allied races like the furbolgs and tauren launch a rescue expedition to the East (would Thrall have landed at this point?), fighting off Undead from the north, naga from the east and satyrs who've felt their masters returning.

Ideas for what the Legion needs to be stopped from doing in the east: Use Illidan's spell to tear great big holes in Kalimdor, open portals all over the place including the Sunwell and the Maelstrom, summon other demon lords, take over the Emerald Dream, etc.

That could work, yes.

Would it be necessary for Thrall to go to Kalimdor in light of the new events that are taking place and the changed future that is about to play out? Will Medivh be able to foresee the changes? Should he be able to?

 

[cleavinghammer]

Well, the humans land in Kalimdor before the orcs do, so Lordaeron has clearly fallen before then. I think that while Thrall is headed for Kalimdor by the time the Culling happens, but between the Sea Witch and various lost-at-sea stuff he doesn't necessarily have to make it there.

I like the idea of Medhiv not quite knowing what will happen (although if his cutsecenes are any indication, he doesn't know the future, just tries to swing events one way, i.e. getting humanity to flee west). Maybe he sees multiple futures, and the canon future is occasionally replaced by the new timeline? He needs a long talk with future Jaina, that's for sure.

 

[kakuzu]

So the humans and orcs will make an alliance once again ?

 

[cleavinghammer]

They'll have to, or at least a non-agression agreement.

Depending on when Jaina comes from, she might ask Thrall to kill, get rid of, or promise never to let Garrosh lead the Horde.

 

[Xanur21]

I like the idea of Medhiv not quite knowing what will happen (although if his cutsecenes are any indication, he doesn't know the future, just tries to swing events one way, i.e. getting humanity to flee west). Maybe he sees multiple futures, and the canon future is occasionally replaced by the new timeline? He needs a long talk with future Jaina, that's for sure.

I guess it would make sense that he won't be able to predict the future, since it's an 'unstable' one, all depending on what Jaina decides to do and who she'd like to involve. This timeline and its future is an ever-changing one.

So the humans and orcs will make an alliance once again ?

I'd like that very much. And it has to happen, the Alliance or Horde alone can't stop the Legion on their own.

 

[kakuzu]

What about the night elves ? They had a huge role in defeating the legion.

 

[Xanur21]

What about the night elves ? They had a huge role in defeating the legion.

Night Elves included of course. Just have to find a way to involve them.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Medhiv goes to warn them, they'll take the Legion seriously.

Without Grom having killed Cenarius or rampaging through the forests, they'll have no (or at least less) reason to not want to ally with the Horde and Alliance by sending troops east (not to mention helping to deal with the naga). Cenarius'll have to stay behind though.

And it gives a way to use those kickass Night Elf battleships.

 

[Warseeker]

What would happen if he DIDN'T become Lich king ! Well the answer is simple : Illidan while destroy the frozen theron, kil'jeaden will be back, Sylvanas will easly kill Arthas, and as a suggesion : Illidan will take LK place on azeroth (not like LK I mean not Undead) but as the most powerful hero as ever know ! The Alliance will strike down the Horde and so many more..., And about what you saying on Medivh he did what he has to do and warn the horde and alliance about the Burning Legion only he want to make a pieceful world in order to defaite Darkness he doesn't know anything about the lich king it all started when illidan destroy Guldan's skull ! That what pissed the burning legion, but what upset me is why Medivh didn't come back in TFT, that strange ? Anyways, I said what i have to say in this forum, DONT BLAME ME !