Dragon Grove v1.2

[Moderator]

21:36, 17th Feb 2016
Remixer:

Review

The map has a few very big flaws you need to fix before I can review it better, if you do not fix these it's simply rejected.

One of the big flaws is size of the expansions as some one mentioned: there's not enough space to even build at every expansion mine and even when there's space orcs have disadvantage as their great hall ends up right next to the teleporter.

Another flaw is the empty areas on the cliffs. Fix it. The usage of mortar teams etc. would be just too superior. Fill them a bit more with trees or rocks - anything. Also the dirt cliffs look really weird overall.

The shallow water should also be deep water instead, currently you could technically have an army there.

The middle area is really crowded and having a bridge the only way to a base is really problematic.

Improve the map for another review.

No changes are going to be made - rejected.

Set back to Awaiting update for it can be make acceptable. See my comments for improvements.

 

[Rufus]

You should know, that in order to get this map approved so that more people will see and try it out, you should add some screenshots of the game.

Also, if the author and uploaders name is different, you should explain why. Right now it looks like you have stolen "Ctpajgep"s map and uploaded it yourself (and I don't think you have).

Although the terrain on this one was nice, I personally think that your other map was better looking. (Really beautiful!)

Also...
Welcome to the Hive!

 

[Shar Dundred]

Please improve the description of your map (also counts for the other one).
This thread should help you do it.

I downloaded the map and it looked quite nice, but I didn't give it a more detailed check yet, so I cannot give a review yet.
I'll post a detailed review later. Feel free to update your description in the meanwhile.

Also, are you the author of the map? The name of the creator differs from your own.

 

[Strajder]

Yes, sorry. I'm new to this site so I don't know the requirements of posting the maps. I guess I need to click the "Update" button and use BBcode in the description?

I am the author of the maps. Of course, I have no way to prove it, but I doubt there will be someone else disputing the authorship. My other map has the latin version of my nickname next to the pseudo-cyrillic one, as I said.

 

[Eldin HawkWing]

It Needs a Good Detailed Description and Better Screenshots.

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

It Needs a Good Detailed Description and Better Screenshots.

Guys, a map doesn't need screenshots. It's just recommended.

@Author
Please fix the descriptions of your maps

 

[Strajder]

Is this description ok? I made it using a generator app I found on this site. Going to post a similar description on my other map.

 

[Shar Dundred]

Far better.
Review coming soon...

 

[deepstrasz]

This one looks amazing as Lobster Isle and it too isn't quite balanced.

The baddie:
-Scourge Bone Chimes (ruins the Dreadlord's usage of Vampiric Aura), [we could argue about Cloak of Shadows too but maybe most will disagree with me] The Lion Horn of Stormwind (you get the idea), Alleria's Flute of Accuracy (I know most of them were even in ladder maps but to me it kind of kills the balance of the gameplay and also replaces the roles of some heroes)
-funny thing: if flying neutral units that drop items are killed in places where units on foot can't reach, the items drop there Trees must be brought down or Blink must be used to get them
-it would be more interesting if some items would only drop once
-found a Great Tiny Hall after killing a Satyr Hellcaller and then... another one on another one of those creatures... Actually all of them give that...
-training dragons should be available when the guards are dead. That would make it more realistic
-the water zones could be less flat

-it would've been cooler if the Way Gates didn't take the entering units right to the nearest Way Gate but somewhere else. A crossfire between the destinations of Way Gates would make the level more interesting

After it being balanced, no more problems will persist.

 

[Strajder]

This one looks amazing as Lobster Isle and it too isn't quite balanced.

The baddie:
-Scourge Bone Chimes (ruins the Dreadlord's usage of Vampiric Aura), [we could argue about Cloak of Shadows too but maybe most will disagree with me] The Lion Horn of Stormwind (you get the idea), Alleria's Flute of Accuracy (I know most of them were even in ladder maps but to me it kind of kills the balance of the gameplay and also replaces the roles of some heroes)

Haha, yeah, though it opens up an option not to have to use that hero just to get its advantage.

-funny thing: if flying neutral units that drop items are killed in places where units on foot can't reach, the items drop there Trees must be brought down or Blink must be used to get them

Yeah, that could be improved. You could screenshot that and post me a link of the screenshot or something.

-found a Great Tiny Hall after killing a Satyr Hellcaller and then... another one on another one of those creatures... Actually all of them give that...

That was intended. You get an instant expansion more or less. The map was ideally meant for 6 player FFA or 2v2v2 or 3v3 by the way.

-training dragons should be available when the guards are dead. That would make it more realistic
[...]
-it would've been cooler if the Way Gates didn't take the entering units right to the nearest Way Gate but somewhere else. A crossfire between the destinations of Way Gates would make the level more interesting

I guess it would require changing the objects, making the map custom and not melee if memory serves.

-the water zones could be less flat

I agree.

 

[Shar Dundred]

Map: Dragon Grove
Version: 1.10

Review
by Shar Dundred

Terrain

Your use of tiles was pretty good overall, however there are a few areas (like the mountain areas around the players bases or the earth in the east player's base) that still need more work. The center of the map is nicely designed with doodads and there are a few other doodads than trees in the other areas as well, but I still think there should be more. I. e. you could place a few rocks on the rock tiles next to the mercenary camps. The water on the map could use more deeper areas as well. 3/5

Creeps & Items

Both your creep groups and your item placement are mostly balanced and well-done. You removed the Tiny Great Halls and now the Satyrs lose only level 4 permanent items, which is much better than getting the hall, a level 4 item and a goldmine from just one single creep. Last time I played the map, I made the mistake playing as Night Elf, that's why I hadn't realized that Orcs and Humans have problems expanding to some positions. I tested with Humans this time and could espand to all mines without cutting a tree - except for the one with the yellow portal. I highly suggest changing that. About the problem with drops from flying units: Normally, it's no big deal unless it's in a restricted area like here. You might want to change it a bit by either replacing the unit that drops the items or change the placement of your trees. 3/5

Map Layout

The map is perfectly symmetric and doesn't let any player have any advantage. Each player starts with a mercenary camp and a tavern nearby, so no one player has any advantage over the other. I liked the modified, mixed use of your portals and all seemed to work properly.

Overall

Overall, I'd say players can have much fun with this map, fighting for the central area. 3/5 Vote for Approval!

 

[deepstrasz]

I guess it would require changing the objects, making the map custom and not melee if memory serves.

I think you can use custom item tables. There's an option for that in the editor somewhere. If that doesn't work, yeah do it differently via triggers or something.
It will make the map more balanced.
Now, I don't want this to sound like a command. It's just a suggestion.

 

[Strajder]

I don't mind the critique, it would be interesting to work on something I haven't touched for ten years or so.

I'll see what can be done and update the maps one of these days. Stay tuned!

 

[Arrr]

you cant build expos on orange and teal portals, there is not enough room

 

[Strajder]

you cant build expos on orange and teal portals, there is not enough room

I'll look into that, thanks for the report. I did measure the expos with a Town Hall, but I'll try to add more space anyway.

 

[Arrr]

^
you should measure expos with a starting point instead, since it shows you when it is too close to the mine to be built

 

[Strajder]

I updated the map to version 1.1.

^
you should measure expos with a starting point instead, since it shows you when it is too close to the mine to be built

Town Hall does that too. When it can't be placed, the transparent Town Hall gets colored red.

 

[Eldin HawkWing]

Use Edit Button instead of Double Posting.

 

[Strajder]

Use Edit Button instead of Double Posting.

Ok. Different forums have different policies on this, didn't know which one is the norm here.

 

[Strajder]

Updating the thread since I updated my map. And I quote:

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/rules-information-710/site-rules-245478/#glossary1

1. Double Posting
- Double posting, consequently posting multiple posts in sequence, is strictly prohibited.

Amendment: Thread Bumping
- However, if a thread has gone without activity for the duration of 48 hours or more, you may bump* the thread.

Second Amendment: Updates
- In cases of rapid content progression, update posts* are allowed.

Reprimand: Necro-Posting*
- When a thread is three months old or older, it is no longer considered "bumping" to post in it.
- This is considered "Necro-Posting", which is prohibited unless a staff member sanctions it.

Hope I didn't break The Law. >_> Geez.

BTW, can the map finally be approved?

 

[deepstrasz]

Updating the thread since I updated my map. And I quote:

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/rules-information-710/site-rules-245478/#glossary1


Hope I didn't break The Law. >_> Geez.

BTW, can the map finally be approved?

Dude, map threads can't be revived as they don't die. They are places where people write down their comments about the maps uploaded in them.
However, posting stuff without consisting of an update is an infraction.

 

[Remixer]

Reviewed and set it to Awaiting update.

 

[Strajder]

Lol. This map was not conceived as a perfectly balanced e-sports ladder map at all from the get go. Altering it further would just deviate from the base concept of the map.

Second, "Also the dirt cliffs look really weird overall." shouldn't even be an "official" remark. "Looks" are a matter of taste. To me everything looks perfect, just like it should. I don't know where did this stigmatization of Blizzard cliffs come from in the first place. They are a part of the game, they are featured both in the campaign and in the custom/ladder maps, they fit with the rest of the models and terrain. I love Blizzard cliffs. Deal with it.

Finally, it took you well long enough, only to post this bashing (and still nothing about my other maps). Well, how about this: I don't give a damn.

 

[Remixer]

Lol. This map was not conceived as a perfectly balanced e-sports ladder map at all from the get go. Altering it further would just deviate from the base concept of the map.

Second, "Also the dirt cliffs look really weird overall." shouldn't even be an "official" remark. "Looks" are a matter of taste. To me everything looks perfect, just like it should. I don't know where did this stigmatization of Blizzard cliffs come from in the first place. They are a part of the game, they are featured both in the campaign and in the custom/ladder maps, they fit with the rest of the models and terrain. I love Blizzard cliffs. Deal with it.

Finally, it took you well long enough, only to post this bashing (and still nothing about my other maps). Well, how about this: I don't give a damn.

As I said the blizzard cliffs are not the only problem in the map. There are really some factors that make the gameplay clumsy. Sure the dirt cliff thing is an opinion but sadly, most people prefer having grass cliffs instead of dirt cliffs, when there's grass both down and up on the cliff.

However, reading your comment I'll set this map Rejected.

PS: I became a reviewer a few days ago, sorry I did not review your other maps (reviewed 5 or 6 other maps).

 

[deepstrasz]

As I said the blizzard cliffs are not the only problem in the map. There are really some factors that make the gameplay clumsy. Sure the dirt cliff thing is an opinion but sadly, most people prefer having grass cliffs instead of dirt cliffs, when there's grass both down and up on the cliff.

That still counts as taste and is in no way an argument.

However, reading your comment I'll set this map Rejected.

Hey now, the guy was just pissed off. He didn't offend or insult you. From what I remember all mines had space for an expansion main building. Now I can't check that again as the map isn't on the site anymore...

 

[Remixer]

That still counts as taste and is in no way an argument.


Hey now, the guy was just pissed off. He didn't offend or insult you. From what I remember all mines had space for an expansion main building. Now I can't check that again as the map isn't on the site anymore...

Sure, it still counts as a taste, however we need to judge by the major opinion. Sure people can claim that map with only dirt is nice looking - but at least I don't. So if I say that the dirt isn't very appealing I can't say for an absolute truth. But as a map maker myself, if majority people ask for something of course I try to do it.

I know he was pissed off, but I said in the review if no changes are made it'll be rejected. Sure, he can still update it and it will get re-reviewed. I can tell you that on the version I reviewed it was impossible to build a Great Hall on every expansion, most of them - yes - but not on every single one of them, which is required.

 

[deepstrasz]

Sure, it still counts as a taste, however we need to judge by the major opinion. Sure people can claim that map with only dirt is nice looking - but at least I don't. So if I say that the dirt isn't very appealing I can't say for an absolute truth. But as a map maker myself, if majority people ask for something of course I try to do it.

Sometimes, if not most times, the majority may be wrong. I am, however, aware that a map maker should have a higher say than just anyone. Well, I don't know if it was really just about some plain dirt exposition since the map is pretty much doodad full.
When the majority asks for something, you should do what you like or at least split that piece of work to more versions.

 

[Remixer]

Sometimes, if not most times, the majority may be wrong. I am, however, aware that a map maker should have a higher say than just anyone. Well, I don't know if it was really just about some plain dirt exposition since the map is pretty much doodad full.
When the majority asks for something, you should do what you like or at least split that piece of work to more versions.

Well that opinion/truth/no opinion/taste thing is more deeper than the actual problems here. As I said, the dirt cliff is not the reason for rejection.