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(2)The Nereids Horns

Submitted by Zucth
This bundle is marked as pending. It has not been reviewed by a staff member yet.
(2)The Nereids Horns V1.07
Player Suggest: competitive 1v1
Inspiration: Teranas Stand [which give a feeling of unique path.]
Map Creator: Zucth

WIP5 image with neutral building position write on. [gates and cliff are no longer exist]
[​IMG]
In game image
[​IMG]

Map Description:
The Nereids Horns are an underwater abyss, with a special nature that creates endless bubbles from the underworld. Due to the greatness of the bubble hill. The Nagas then called this place after the name of the goddess blowing the conch. [from Greek mythology.]

Neutral Building:
6 Expansion Goldmines (Main-10500, Orange Expansion-11250, Red Expansion-14500)
1 Tavern
2 Goblin Merchant
2 Mercenary camp -Northern
2 Goblin Lab

Creep Camp:
8 Green
10 Orange
2 Red

Information:
-base near lab and red mines
-c2 green camp is the nearest camp from base
-lot of raise and lower terrain for scout and bringing many strategy that player can sue into the game. like the two mid obstacle near base design for the overseer of sentry ward.
-northern camp here (p1 camp), bring unit nerubian warrior for help creeping early game. unit with ability raise dead for an early-late game creeping[give undead before-t2 skeleton mass], and blizzard guy for a mid-late game timing [red mine is pretty close to the base and easy to defend, Human may take advantage here, blizzard the only aoe creep here is for this reason.] and ice troll berserker as a if someone interest.
-near red mines and far orange mines [take the idea of Brightwater Oasis as well].
-need 46 sec militia run without breaking any gate
-under the ocean tile set same as my (4)Twain Hails
-red camp near to the player main base and easy to scout by ward and units.

++There's a WIP down in the photo down there in case you wanna asked of it.
[​IMG]
1.0 release on Hive
1.01 added the cliff in the mid between tavern and hard mines+doodad decoration. +critter
1.02 shop camp, replace water element with crap(he didn't sleep)
1.03 added the cliff high base. [still route to mid is lack of space, will find a way to fixed it if need.] Change some tree and creep position follow by the cliff added
1.04 change creep mana value from 0 to [maximum]
1.05 remove gates, remove cliff mid mine[to increase space to enter it], move some doodad and creep camp
1.06: followed Cigaro feedback,
-lv.8 camp, lab camp, merc remove powerup drop [for being too good drop]
-lv.17 p4 camp and lv20 red camp change from powerup1x2>pw lv2x1
-far expo, remove heal+frost armor, change to cold arrowx2. Remove undead grunt lv.3 to turtle lv2 . To make the camp easier to take from it range. right now it was an easy one can take down with AM[+we] and 4 footy.
-terrain fixed[the lost ramp]
-creep pull aggro by accident fixed.

1.07: followed Cigaro feedback from last time
-charge 2 camp +1 makura lv1, -replace makura with turtle camp lv8>9 [rebalanced early creeping]
-shop camp change crab lv5> Stormreaver lv6 +lightning chain and bloodlust[to make the camp harder]
-lab camp +fa/heal makura lv2
-swap camp c2 and p2 position [item balance condition]
-red camp near base drop to orange lv17 with p3 only [create more possibility of creeping route early game] +some doodad
-far expo camp, replace one elemental lv2 on cold skelly lv3. [drop the difficulty]. Increased gold from 9250>11250
-move some of the trees that can cause a dangerous wisp spot
-close up the border[the decoration around border which increase the map size]

Creator Note:
-No shipwreck today, Nereids goddess is the blessing of luck to a sailor, also they can be friendly and helpful to the sailors as well!
-who ever want to try this tile set. I do better say that use the same level corner like in my twain hails will get the better look out side in minimap, which is better than this one.
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Contents

(2)The Nereids Horns (Map)

  1. WolfFarkas

    WolfFarkas

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    I like the terraining a lot, I like the neutral building distribution, concept.

    but this is game killer.


    upload_2020-9-22_23-33-23.png

    that tree wall is very thin, IMO, all ladder maps have the expo back safe, that can be KOG and BM and Zapper and siege take down.

    the most important thing are expos, you can change creeps and loot, you can change creeps positions, but a mistake in expos = map to the yunkyard pile, I discarted my first contest entry savage coast because I screw the pathing around my first expo.

    a fast solution would be cliff, but with carefull considering siege can attack, so it has to be well executed

    upload_2020-9-22_23-35-50.png

    I am sorry for the bad news, srl I really like neutral buildings positions and terraining.
    I hope you can find the balance solution to make the map be able for perfect safe plays.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
  2. Zucth

    Zucth

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    sure thing. I already think about this problem, but didn't see any game in pro player game use any of seige like mortar in game. But for zapplin it was another reason I will look into it more. What do you think if I make a lower cliff and put down the sight blocker here? [nvm, it not necessary now]

    Another thing here is that mine doodad have the same thin as TS maybe because there's no cliff right there, that's why you feel like it thin though.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
  3. WolfFarkas

    WolfFarkas

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    TS has the deep water "protection"

    much better now, still I am a little worried that KOG cand dig a hole of that expo in 2 FON skill use

    another thing about gates, seems like just inbalance because you can destroy it with a militia to scout, but wisp not,
    so I wouldnt use it in competitive IMO. I dunno, there no ladder maps yet using destructibles as path bloking, so is like we are blind in that on how should be used, hp,, a latteral near path that stuff.

    upload_2020-9-23_12-48-2.png
     
  4. Zucth

    Zucth

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    Maybe you are right though. About gate I use it here because the map is too small for a scout without the gate militia used like 48 sec to reach enemy base which is out standard than the using gate.
    And also the gate I did a little test. Militia and other t1 early unit will take two hit per gate which will slow it down like 5-7 sec and 1 hit for heroes. I don't think high level player want to waste their time on destroy the gate, else it was after the scout. I didn'tused it in any other way. I didn't see any problem with it though. Maybe you didn't notice this but the gate only effect the game by making it path shorter to many object leave them like it is surely gave you better choice. And with that KOG problem you talking about it will be about late late game when he reach lv.5 or above which is not general to happen. Many competitive end up way faster than that. It can cause a problem but not always for me I don't think that it will cause that much problem. It just one possibility that can happened. Maybe I'm too open.
     
  5. WolfFarkas

    WolfFarkas

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    -about the gate, maybe you can use doodads or make a more a loop with wood to increase the walking times.
    -about the mine, maybe a cliff mine could work like BO or CH. I am being very heavy about that matter because maps are discarted for more minor stuff. 1v1 is very restrictive. My point is that: the kog and 1 zapper can lets say skip and null the towers you will put in front of your townhall. I am no pro but when I expand, if I have the resources, I build the townhall and 1-2 towers. so the dig a hole in my back is not that fun for tower builders.
     
  6. ZLY199377

    ZLY199377

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      The terrain of this map is good. you are making better and better maps.

      However, there is one need to be modified. The initial mana value of neutral units is "0", this may be caused by replacing units or setting units in batch. Neutral units must have 100% initial mana. It's a blizzard Standard map rule.
     
  7. Zucth

    Zucth

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    Welp I do what I can fixed now, the gate may be a critical point here. but I can't change anything else make a new map with the player range problem it is a no-no can't remove the gate. the cliff that I fixed destroy a bit of minimap color but for the gameplay I guess I have to. anything else I missed here other than the gate?

    thank you! I didn't know that about mana values.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2020
  8. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

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  9. Cigaro

    Cigaro

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    === GRAPHICS ===

    Not really a fan of the design tbh. Mixing Sunken Ruins works with a lot of stuff but not everything. First off: The Dalaran Ruins grass is not an issue here, and neither is Tiled Bricks from Icecrown Glacier, those are okay in combination. Northrend grass, on the other hand, is pretty terrible (I rarely ever see it work). The transition to dirt/sand looks ugly:
    northrend-grass.jpg
    The same goes for Dalaran Ruins rough dirt:
    rough-dirt.jpg
    That's a very clear-cut edge, looks unnatural. You would need a "transitional terrain" between that dirt and the brighter earth tones.

    I find it weird that the shells are located in the forest and would prefer if they were placed on sand instead. The bubbles are funky though, I think they fit there.
    shells.jpg

    I don't know why you chose the square tool instead of the circle tool to place trees. Doesn't strike me as the kind of place where trees have been planted, like a garden, a city or a park. Looks odd.
    square-trees.jpg

    I can see that the tiny snowfall regions follow a sort of pattern, but they're still to weird for my taste.

    There's too much going on with the doodads in some areas. I don't object to the coral arches and all that, but the bright green lily pads in the otherwise darkish forests are not visually pleasing.
    lilypads.jpg

    To say something positive as well: I've really enjoyed those wafting seaweeds around the Merc Camps (and some other areas):
    tavern.jpg
    Those have very mystical vibe to them.

    === GAMEPLAY ===

    The map is too large. 116x116 is massive for 1vs1. Unfortunately, I don't see any possibility to make it smaller because of the large impassable terrain in the center (orange in my screenshot). If you were to cut off the edges (green broken lines), the pathing would became very one-dimensional:
    overview.jpg

    The distance between player bases is okay, but the natural gold mines on the sides are way too far away and too heavily guarded (plus they provide less than 10K gold). I don't see how HU will expand on this map. Sure, there are the other gold mines, but they've got lvl 22 creep camps.
    goldmine.jpg

    The Merc Camps are only guarded by a lvl 7 camp. Should be tougher. Perhaps swap some creep camps around.

    Overall, the item drops feel a little off. The lvl 13 creep camp at the Goblin Lab drops a lvl 3 charged, which is pretty fat. All lvl 4 items can be gotten from lvl 17 camps (shops and turtles). However, there's a lvl 20 camp that only drops a lvl 3 permanent (plus a lvl 2 charged). I can see that the camp is in a relatively "safe spot", but it'd be disappointing nevertheless. The lvl 7 camp near the base drops a lvl 2 charged, that's too good. Should be lvl 1.

    You could remove one of the green camps entirely.

    This creep camp might attack units that are just passing by. Haven't tested it. (Would not be an issue for sure if the creeps were set to camp range.)
    aggro.jpg

    Also these should be pushed further back into the trees:
    aggro-2.jpg
    aggro-3.jpg
    It's not likely that they'll intercept units in the spots that they're in, but it is definitely possible, and it sucks even when it happens only once.

    It's probably nothing, but the editor still remembers that there was a high ground around this gold mine in the past:
    high-ground.jpg
    There's no combat miss chance so it's not a bug, but you could still use the "same level" terrain tool to wipe over it once, just to be on the safe side.

    ===

    To sum it up: I see a lot of issues with the map, the visual style is interesting but its implementation is difficult, and the biggest gameplay problem for sure is the sheer size of the map.
     
  10. Zucth

    Zucth

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    Well for the visual I feel like it goes together well though... Northern grass present as a moss and dark green grass as another moss. And the daralan rough it surely a bit off. But think of it as a digger mud then it will be fine I guess... I also fill this as a fantasy undersea kinda, emit light mushrooms can stay for that it a personal addicted so forgive me that xD. And for a shell in a dead forest... Why not since all of the map were already had a underwater theme? Like Atlantis (underwater(by flood) city).

    For the design, I think that I should give merc as a easy camp becuase you can increase more chance against lv.22 expo. And the far one is present as a chance of maybe you are interested. If you feel it to hard I will de-scale the creep then. But blizzard guy is there to nerf orc range such as TC-troll and undead for DK-spider(Idk it name) I won't remove him. I will look in lab camp again then. For me I already feel like lab camp is over power. That lv.20 camp also an extra
    (I have a few questions, does charge 1 item exist? Cause in this version there's not).
    You may say the map is too big, but for me I felt like it is perfect though kinda have a similar feel to AL after playing this for a while. Also will look into pulling aggro again after you said that (I did test pull aggro only in the main auto path). The map isn't that big though(I still feel like it, cause the main are stay mid meaning that it had less and less chance to go way around.

    Edit: more about tool use, I always had a problem with the circle blush which always end up leave one space in the mid of the forest. No any idea how to make it good.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
  11. Cigaro

    Cigaro

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    No it doesn't, there only a lvl 1 permanents and powerups.

    Unless you want to count Echo Isles, that is. The creep camp at the Merc Camp on that map would drop a lvl 1 charged – but doesn't, because there's no item in that category. It was probably meant to be a lvl 1 powerup and they've made a mistake. I suppose you could call it an Easter Egg at this point. :)
    echo-isles-drop.jpg

    There are two lvl 0 charged items, but you should not use them. They look unbalanced to me.

    It definitely works. Perhaps test it on an empty map.
    trees-1.jpg trees-2.jpg
     
  12. Zucth

    Zucth

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    that will work only on the lower and raise corner if use cliff it will leave some space on the cliff.