HIVE

Ended up having some much-needed time with the wife, and watched GotG2 until 3am. At that point I went to bed (I *did* say I couldn't promise).

But if I get a chance today, I think I might try to put up the thread. I will definitely let you know.

Alright, I've asked @Ralle for permission to access the old Challenge (because it's closed, and re-writing all that fancy BBCode is just not something I have time for right now). As soon as that's together I'll be putting together something... I have a few changes in mind, especially for Judging, that I'm interested to get your thoughts on.

I'll just put it simply.

Unless OTHERWISE SPECIFIED, judging should be done in the context of Warcraft or its modding community. The only time creativity should come under question is if an entry is mimicking a character from a game. Such as a Hero entry with a model and kit as close to Tryndamere's(From League of Legends) as possible.

As far as modelling goes, a standard must be set in regard to animation quality. This would hopefully encourage the likes of hayate and grey knight to start improving their skills.

Other than that, you know my position on this stuff. Especially in regard to the voting public.

Wait, I'm confused; to what are you responding? I haven't even told you what I was thinking about changing. :<

If you are responding to my conversation with Apheraz Lucent (re: C/O/U)... Well, that's a salient discussion to have. (However, you've kinda sidestepped the most important question by saying "Warcraft **OR** it's modding community; which is it?). And I don't really know what to say re: remakes.

When it comes to animating quality... OK but what are those 'standards'? AFAIK there really isn't an easy, objective tool when it comes to animation (unlike, say, modeling, where you can point to loose bones or extraneous polygons or unwelded vertices or sketchy wrapping...). I'm all for encouraging greatness, but I don't know how exactly that's accomplished outside of just holding regular Contests (which themselves, inherently, encourage greatness)

And you might have to remind me about the rest. If you're implying you're not a big fan of Polls (neither am I), there are a plethora of ways around that issue.

*(neither am I, in certain situations & for some purposes)

It generally depends on the object being animated. A balance between function and flow must be maintained. If the model is robotic, its animations must match. If it is meant to be more human, then the animations need to be more natural, avoiding 'dead stops'.

For example, take a simple landing. As soon as your feet hit the ground, your body tends to buckle slightly as the REST of you comes to a halt. If a character doesn't land on their feet, such as during their death animation, a slight bounce is to be expected.

Many animators fail at these things. Their animations are extremely simple and lack any consideration for realistic movement. We need to stop praising such laziness.

Take a look at grey knight's Tyrael model for example, or this.

https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads/nerubian-archmage.277294/

See, I get ya, but you've still not outlined anything *clear*, *definable*, and most importantly *objective*. An animator might fail to do the 'buckle', might do it insufficiently, might do it too much. It's a spectrum, a very subjective "what does this look like" kinda thing. It's not clear-cut & obviously objective like "hm, there's an extra vertex here" or even "this wrap is warped/messy"

I don't believe in praising laziness. I *do* believe in praising effort, and encouraging betterment. But also consider; many times the people 'praising laziness' are people like me, in subordinate positions of talent to the artist, unable to even *being* to do what they do, and *incredibly grateful* to have anything at all (especially pro bono, as such things are in modding).

Sure, that could be "better". But is it not "good enough" for the Hive?

I see things on a spectrum. With cinematic 3D movies at the very top, an array of different 3D games below that, to the achievable level of quality from vanilla WoW models. Then, below all that, the animators here on the Hive.

Generally, I'd put Tauer, Traggey and A.R. at the top, with others like HerrDave below that, and others trailing slightly behind. You can easily spot the flaws in his animation style, but he manages to blend things almost seamlessly into WC3. But you don't often see them suffering from the same dodgy 'clockwork' problems the other animators seem to have.

Check the Nerubian Archmage models' stand animation for clarity.

So, any progress?

He hasn't responded, and I'm at work for another few hours.

But what's your time table? Are you only able to work for a few more hours, or you got all night?

I can do whatever I want whenever I want. As I've said, I'm basically MADE of free time.

Huh, alright. Sounds like it won't kill you to wait.

In the meantime, I hear tell there's insufficient Jungle Troll building models on the Hive. ; )


That, or hurry up & finish that updated Taunka. I've got a custom hero just about finished for the old version.

Yeah, but I get bored very easily. Speaking of which, any progress?

Still no word. Can you bug him too? @Ralle !

lolwat.

Gratzi!

Alright man, I'm at work until this evening, but I should be able to get something up this evening.