Starcraft II Beta Key Spell Contest

[Deaod]

Singularity attack: You have melee triggers?

In case you didnt notice, its a fully functional melee map so of course i preserved the Melee triggers.

 

[Lambdadelta]

HAH. I would have probably entered but I lack time, and ideas

My idea was to have a giant mothership come from above [Sky Barge lolz] and send down a giant abduction ray, makes units float in the air, then marines and other ninja thingies drop down and attack, the targets get whacked back and forth and then drop back down. The troops materializing back in the ship, and the mothership goes back. Blerh. Terrible

I'm liking Antimatter thingy so far. And Deaod's. Only ones that have really appealed. And that Power Plyon thingy.

 

[elfian]

So, the contest is over When do we expect the results?!

 

[Vercas]

In 26 minutes?

 

[TriggerHappy]

Contest is now over. Any submissions after this post will not be counted.

 

[Cokemonkey11]

Good luck to everyone that entered, glad I could participate in a contest after all this time.

Cheers,

 

[DrEvil]

Ahhh, if you've already marked them... Too bad..

If you haven't, heres my map with just edited descriptions ( Map , Loading , About.. and terrain..)
Nothing to do with the spell.. but as you said you don't have to... just makes it easier x)

@Darkrider, thanks, and that was to help me get the magent shape working xD. But then I forgot to remove it

 

[Piranha89]

Contest is now over. Any submissions after this post will not be counted.

Can you give an overview about how many submissions there are, how many of them you checked already and what main points you are looking for (more specifically)?

I fear you will misjudge my submission just because it's not written in vJass. Pure Jasscode is generally not being accepted, though my code is well done and optimized for it's usage. Everybody that does not have experience or cannot even do things in Jass tends to say "Jass suxx, GUi suxx, vJass is 10x faster than jass" and so on. All of these comments are wrong.
If you do not accept my background system that saves and loads things into/from parallel arrays, you must also disqualify anybody using a "struct", since this works exactly the same way once being compiled to normal Jass (which it always is).

 

[Herian]

Piranha, I am not a vJass user, but vJass is 10x faster than Jass. And it is true. And why should he disqualify anybody using a struct?

 

[Piranha89]

Piranha, I am not a vJass user, but vJass is 10x faster than Jass. And it is true. And why should he disqualify anybody using a struct?

Though I guess this is a trolling attempt, I feel I've got to set this right:

First of all, vJass is being compiled to Jass.

So if you say vJass is faster than Jass, Jass is 10x faster than Jass, which is really cool!
Now you have to suggest: If Jass is 10x faster than Jass, and vJass, that will be compiled, is also 10x faster than Jass, which is 10x faster than Jass, vJass is even 100x faster than Jass. Do you slowly get what I'm talking about? World domination by evil guinnepigs!

Now being serious: My background systems use the same principle that vJass does and is often even better optimized to it's specific usage than vJass structs could be, since vJass does always the same things you cannot controll.
vJass just implements some basics for beginners that cannot code efficiently enough to reach some useful level of performance.
I can do that myself and use my knowledge to stay independend from third-party programs like JNGP or WEU.
In my opinion, coding in vJass requires far less skill than coding Jass. Basic Warcraft III players lack a lot of skill, that's also one reason why primitive maps become that popular.

 

[sephiroth1234]

I agree with Piranha!

 

[Deaod]

Pure Jasscode is generally not being accepted, though my code is well done and optimized for it's usage.

Your code may be optimized for its usage. But you didnt really try to squeeze out the last bit of performance. Also there are certain downfalls to JASS which have nothing to do with speed such as the inability to hide information or the ability to declare global variables in the script.

Everybody that does not have experience or cannot even do things in Jass tends to say "Jass suxx, GUi suxx, vJass is 10x faster than jass" and so on. All of these comments are wrong.

Im also coding in JASS because vJass relies mostly on JASS. I know which features were added through vJass. Saying that vJass is 10 times faster than JASS is about correct when youre talking about development time. I agree however, that because vJass is compiledprocessed (meh, elfian) into JASS it cannot be faster when executing.
JASS does indeed suck, for a multitude of reasons: You cant hide information and thus cant write scripts with a clean API, you cant easily declare new global variables, you cant declare constant global variables at all.
I disagree that stating "GUI sucks" is wrong. I dont want to get into that argument. Every point has been made, i leave it up to you to search for them, if you are really interested.

If you do not accept my background system that saves and loads things into/from parallel arrays, you must also disqualify anybody using a "struct", since this works exactly the same way once being compiled to normal Jass (which it always is).

You ignore that when using vJass, you dont actually SEE all that crap when looking over the code. What you see is a struct declaration. I also dare say that you are more liable to screw up when manually writing those algorithms, than when a compiler/preprocessor does it for you.

My background systems use the same principle that vJass does and is often even better optimized to it's specific usage than vJass structs could be, since vJass does always the same things you cannot controll.

The algorithm is set. And i think what JassHelper does is as far optimized as it could be. I doubt you can even reach the same level of optimization when coding by hand.

vJass just implements some basics for beginners that cannot code efficiently enough to reach some useful level of performance.

You have no idea what vJass gives you. vJass is not just a set of macros for you to fill in. vJass gives you libraries and scopes (which were, as far as i know, the main reason it was conceived, structs were just an afterthought). You cant replicate those with JASS. You also cant replicate private/public code visibility. Those are just not native features of JASS.
vJass also gives you structs, yes. Those are, like you mentioned, parallel arrays. Of course you can write the algorithms for that yourself. I did it once or twice. Its not a thing id like to do everytime i would want to use a struct. Point is this: vJass saves you development time. In multiple ways. JassHelper itself does some of the work for you and vJass allows you to reuse existing code more easily.

I can do that myself and use my knowledge to stay independend from third-party programs like JNGP or WEU.

Independence is worth nothing if it takes you forever to get things done. See, take the little OrbStacking library you can find in my signature. If i want to make orbs stack in my map, i import the library itself and its dependencies if needed, and start coding the actual orbs.
Your way involves at least a more complicated importing process and i can guarantee you that there are no JASS resources doing what AutoIndex and DamageModifiers do. Which means youll have to write them yourself. Even if you do manage to replicate those two libraries (which i doubt), youll still have to replace every single call to UnitAddAbility and UnitRemoveAbility. In vJass, hooks do that for you. In JASS, you cant, except if you control all the code in the final map. Add an ability of an orb in GUI and youre screwed, you have to convert that trigger to code and replace the call to UnitAddAbilityBJ yourself.
So, given all these problems youd have with making Orbs stack, what would you do? Give up, thats what id do. You could, of course, invest a year or two and get it done in JASS. But even then itd be inferior to the vJass version, if only because itd never be truly modular.

In my opinion, coding in pure JASS involves far more grunt-work than coding in vJass.

I agree with Piranha!

Did you even read what he said?

 

[elfian]

"First of all, vJass is being compiled to Jass."

No, it is not being compiled to JASS. It is being preprocessed to JASS. Compilation is a totally different process. I get your point tho and I agree with you. However, instead of starting about your background system when nobody asked you about it and messing around with how TriggerHappy should disqualify others and not you, cause you're t3h m3g4 l33t h4x0r, why don't you just shut up and wait for the judge to decide himself? OK? I'm sorry, but your last posts started to annoy me just too much.

 

[Fate]

you guys should use an other forum to discuss this.

 

[D4RK_G4ND4LF]

I guess that both of your points of view are acceptable

On the one hand it is much faster and easier to do stuff with vJASS but on the other hand it is lame to c&p things which would take hours or even days of work to finish

And what would the world be like if everyone only relied on the stuff others did before?

Sure there are a few things which are perfect and don't need to be done again but as things become more complex there will be many solutions for the same problem which all have their own (dis)advantages

I for my part think that there is nothing wrong about coding everything yourself
It might not be as fast or famous as other people's work but that's just the point - it's not other people's work
It also is a nice feeling to create something with your own hands just to be sure you are capable of it and don't have to rely on anyone else
Eventually that's the point why we develop, learn and become a little better day by day

 

[TriggerHappy]

I haven't started reviewing.
I'll make a post once I have.

 

[Cokemonkey11]

Deaod, I generally agree with you, but I agree that piranha should not be disqualified because he is right that structs create the same indexing system as he's created himself.

Piranha, Protip: Just learn vJass, it will take you a day at the most, and makes your code much easier to read and edit.

 

[Deaod]

Oh, dont get me wrong. I dont want him dq'ed. Far from it.

 

[Berb]

Piranha, I am not a vJass user, but vJass is 10x faster than Jass. And it is true. And why should he disqualify anybody using a struct?

Please state where it says exactly that vJass is 10x faster than JASS? I know for a fact that this is bullshit so I'm curious as to where you pulled it from (your ass)?

Though I guess this is a trolling attempt, I feel I've got to set this right:

Every time someone disagrees with you it results in you accusing them of trolling.

Now being serious: My background systems use the same principle that vJass does and is often even better optimized to it's specific usage than vJass structs could be, since vJass does always the same things you cannot controll.
vJass just implements some basics for beginners that cannot code efficiently enough to reach some useful level of performance.
I can do that myself and use my knowledge to stay independend from third-party programs like JNGP or WEU.
In my opinion, coding in vJass requires far less skill than coding Jass. Basic Warcraft III players lack a lot of skill, that's also one reason why primitive maps become that popular.

Yet your spell could have been coded in 20% the amount of lines, and more efficiently if you were using JNGP. Just because you don't understand all the features of JNGP doesn't mean that it "just implements some basics". The fact that that is all you think JNGP does indicates you truly don't know what you're talking about.

Anybody who has experience in the World Editor has moved to using JNGP. There is no reason for me to constantly make enormous stacks of parallel arrays just because I want to duplicate the functionality of structs, and doing so would be plain stupid.

Please, don't talk as if you know what you're talking about if you don't really know what you're talking about. Nobody here needs false information based on your unreasonable preferences. If you're going to say that JASS is just as fast as vJass then you might as well say that GUI is just as fast as JASS too.

 

[elfian]

Technically vJASS is as fast as JASS as fast as GUI. Just because vJASS is getting preprocessed to JASS and GUI is getting transformed into JASS. It's the same language after all, there is no way it could have speed differences. However when coding in GUI when the code is being transformed it is totally not optimized, some BJs are used and lots of unneeded bullshit, so this is where the slowness comes from. On the other hand, when talking about coding speed and not execution speed, vJASS is faster than JASS and both of them are way faster than GUI.

 

[Berb]

However when coding in GUI when the code is being transformed it is totally not optimized, some BJs are used and lots of unneeded bullshit, so this is where the slowness comes from.

The quickest method of associating data in JASS is arrays. What vJass does is utilizes this and the result is not only a more logical interpretation of what's happening (due to "emulated" OOP), but it also makes it easier to associate data without having to re-code scripts unnecessarily. If you know what you're doing vJass also improves execution by inlining specific types of functions/methods.

Obviously since everything must be compiled as JASS, the actual execution time of each line of code is going to be exactly the same whether coding in GUI, JASS, or vJass; if you're comparing the entire process of map-making (which is why we write code) from using JASS and using vJass, vJass yields a faster result with as much optimization as a JASS script could potentially have.

 

[elfian]

That's what I was trying to say... sort of

 

[Hivoyer]

''vJass is lame cause its 10 times easie''

lololol then if you wanna be cool just use windows assembler and code yourself a Warcraft 3 from scratch,since using jass is lame,cause blizzard worked hard to make it work and you just write 500 lines and ''LOL I MADE THIS MAP,ITS LIEK I MAED TEH ENTIRE GAMEH Q_Q''

 

[Herian]

Hivoyer, wtf? Double post, and then WHT?

 

[PurplePoot]

tl;dr Piranha is wrong according to anyone with the minutest amount of coding experience, and anyone who has actually properly implemented structs in JASS knows it's a pain in the ass.

And what would the world be like if everyone only relied on the stuff others did before?

You're looking at it right now.

Where would we be if every scientist reinvented the wheel rather than building off the work of their peers? We'd be in the stone age.

 

[Piranha89]

tl;dr Piranha is wrong according to anyone with the minutest amount of coding experience, and anyone who has actually properly implemented structs in JASS knows it's a pain in the ass.

You're looking at it right now.

Where would we be if every scientist reinvented the wheel rather than building off the work of their peers? We'd be in the stone age.

In contrary, it is not hard. Seems like I'm talking to severals that did not even practice in normal Jass like Cedi and me did. Those "vJass fans" are usually those that came to coding at the time vJass already existed. Some few, like Cedi, have chosen it to have some variety on start and simply stayed on it since they were kind of proud about the advanced syntax.
I see no real benefit from vJass for myself and I also prefer using one and the same system 100 times instead of writing it for each struct again and again.
I also claim that my coding efficiency is at least at the level vJass, if not even better optimized for it's specific usage.
Since I generally do not want to create spells for everyone to copy there is no need for me to write things in vJass. Which is, by the way, not as complex as most arrogant users claim it to be. The only difference to me is the syntax, but I still prefer controlling what is running in the background instead of letting things being preprocessed to anything strange.

I do not know what Deaod and Burbanog were writing since I put them on my ignorelist as they started trolling, so this post may repeat some things they said, though I guess they got no clue about the real differences between vJass and Jass and do not want to admit it, similar to a major part of the "vJass community".
I really do not care, use what you need to use, but stop those kiddyflames about things you do not know much about, guys.

@Purplepoot:
It would be nice if there were kind of "standards" for Jass, too instead of having to do most things yourself.
On the other hand I see the creation of systems as a nice training and a good way to optimize processes. In my opinion, you should not simply copy all the things you do not understand.

Greetings
Piranha89

 

[PurplePoot]

In contrary, it is not hard. Seems like I'm talking to severals that did not even practice in normal Jass like Cedi and me did. Those "vJass fans" are usually those that came to coding at the time vJass already existed. Some few, like Cedi, have chosen it to have some variety on start and simply stayed on it since they were kind of proud about the advanced syntax.

I've been coding since roughly when I signed up, december of 05. vJass came about in its crappiest form (structs with no methods and global declarations, which was also buggy as hell, no arrays in the structs, and so on) in early 2007. Deaod has been coding for quite a while as well.

We are the type of people who developed the practices you take for granted (the main credit for JASS knowledge probably goes to PitzerMike, PipeDream, Vexorian, and a few others), and you go on to tell us that we are newbs because we can't code outside an environment that was developed by us due to problems perceived in the language by us? It has since got out of control, but that is a different issue entirely, mostly due to Vexorian just adding whatever he finds cool at the time (good for him, but it bloats the language). Did you ever have to use gamecaches in spells and have horrendously slow results? Did you ever have to find out why your map's stack was getting corrupted and IDs were being spewed everywhere? I doubt it.

It is incredibly easy to implement structs in JASS. It is also incredibly tedious and is quite frankly an utter waste of my time.

I see no real benefit from vJass for myself and I also prefer using one and the same system 100 times instead of writing it for each struct again and again.

vJass makes it easier to do that.

Since I generally do not want to create spells for everyone to copy there is no need for me to write things in vJass. Which is, by the way, not as complex as most arrogant users claim it to be. The only difference to me is the syntax, but I still prefer controlling what is running in the background instead of letting things being preprocessed to anything strange.

Syntax is worth more than you account for. What is useful about data structures in such a high-level language is precisely the abstraction they provide; code written using parallel arrays is messy, tedious, and unreadable.

It would be nice if there were kind of "standards" for Jass, too instead of having to do most things yourself.
On the other hand I see the creation of systems as a nice training and a good way to optimize processes. In my opinion, you should not simply copy all the things you do not understand.

Define "standards". There are many libraries which are considered the correct ones to use to solve their respective functions.

 

[Berb]

. Seems like I'm talking to severals that did not even practice in normal Jass like Cedi and me did

I coded in GUI for a year, then started coding in JASS and stuck with that for at least a year and a half. Then I moved on to vJass with the same mentality as you, that there was no real need for vJass. Now I am an very fluent vJass user. Almost everybody here who you are talking to has more experience in the World Editor than you do.

Those "vJass fans" are usually those that came to coding at the time vJass already existed.

Says the guy who joined in 2008 to a bunch of members who joined in 2005/2006.

Some few, like Cedi, have chosen it to have some variety on start and simply stayed on it since they were kind of proud about the advanced syntax.

Um. What?

I see no real benefit from vJass for myself and I also prefer using one and the same system 100 times instead of writing it for each struct again and again.

Um. What? You don't even know what you're talking about.

It would be nice if there were kind of "standards" for Jass, too instead of having to do most things yourself.

This guy missed the entire JESP era, where there was an actual standard for how JASS code had to be written (I believe it was only on wc3c.net though). This has long been an irrelevant standard due to vJass.

Since I generally do not want to create spells for everyone to copy there is no need for me to write things in vJass.

I could copy all of your shit regardless of what language you write it in. Also, spells require a limited amount of the functionality that is offered with vJass. Just check out my projectiles system, I'd like to see you do that in JASS.

Which is, by the way, not as complex as most arrogant users claim it to be.

Again, how about you try coding something more complex than a fucking spell and then get back to us. Nobody cares how easily you make easy-to-make spells.

Did you ever have to use gamecaches in spells and have horrendously slow results? Did you ever have to find out why your map's stack was getting corrupted and IDs were being spewed everywhere? I doubt it.

He claims to have divine knowledge with JASS programming but he has no resources or anything to prove that what he is saying is true. Typical of a newbie.

I do not know what Deaod and Burbanog were writing since I put them on my ignorelist as they started trolling, so this post may repeat some things they said, though I guess they got no clue about the real differences between vJass and Jass and do not want to admit it, similar to a major part of the "vJass community".

Nobody here started trolling. If anything you're the one trolling. It's getting to a point now where I think the site would be better off without you as a member. You constantly oppose people, and when they're right and you're wrong you ignore them and accuse them of trolling, while contributing absolutely nothing to the site but cheap claims that have no foundation.

I really do not care, use what you need to use, but stop those kiddyflames about things you do not know much about, guys.

What do you mean, that we don't know much about? You haven't done anything that shows us you have any knowledge in JASS whatsoever. You don't know 3% of the shit I do when it comes to making maps in World Editor.

On the other hand I see the creation of systems as a nice training and a good way to optimize processes. In my opinion, you should not simply copy all the things you do not understand.

What do you mean, "all the things you do not understand". There is nothing you can show me from WarCraft III that I do not understand, especially your pieces of shit scripts.

Wow it took me too long this time.

I finally figured out this idiot. He's going through that phase in his life where he's insecure about his intelligence and so he feels a need to objectively put himself behind everybody else so that he can act as if he has superior intellect simply because of the fact that he uses JASS instead of vJass, under his own false pretenses (that he is trying to defend for the sake of his insecurity) this makes him more intelligent (which is also bullshit because he's not very smart at all).

 

[PurplePoot]

Heh, I totally forgot about JESP... repressed memories I guess. Configuration functions were hilariously bad.

 

[darkrider]

can somebody cut this stupid bullsh** off? this used to be an starcraft 2 beta key contest for Christ's sake

 

[Lambdadelta]

can somebody cut this stupid bullsh** off? this used to be an starcraft 2 beta key contest for Christ's sake

Amusing read but

 

[Deaod]

In contrary, it is not hard.

Its not hard but it is mind-numbing. And frankly, i want to keep my sanity when coding.

Seems like I'm talking to severals that did not even practice in normal Jass like Cedi and me did. Those "vJass fans" are usually those that came to coding at the time vJass already existed.

I for one started coding in vJass in early 2008 or so. And i started out very slowly with vJass. I did not use syntax features i did not understand. I didnt use structs until mid 2008 or even late 2008, for example. I did actually implement parallel arrays (not the way JassHelper implements them). And i remember it being tedious work.

I see no real benefit from vJass for myself and I also prefer using one and the same system 100 times instead of writing it for each struct again and again.

What in the world are you talking about?

I also claim that my coding efficiency is at least at the level vJass, if not even better optimized for it's specific usage.

I doubt that. And this claim perfectly demonstrates why you have no fucking clue about vJass at all.
Your "struct member" access is a function call which then goes through a few ifs-elseifs to find the correct array to acces, reads the arrays and stores the value inside a local, and at the end of the function returns the value of the local. Your function wouldnt even inline.
IN vJass: ONE ARRAY ACCESS.
Tell me how your implementation is supposed to be AS FAST AS vJass.

Your implementation also has a multitude of other problems i wont explain here. PM me if youre interested.

Since I generally do not want to create spells for everyone to copy there is no need for me to write things in vJass.

I assume you still want to maintain your code. vJass helps you in that regard, because it restricts you from using the whole API, reducing interdependence of code solving different problems thus making such code easier to replace and change.

Which is, by the way, not as complex as most arrogant users claim it to be. The only difference to me is the syntax, but I still prefer controlling what is running in the background instead of letting things being preprocessed to anything strange.

You can safely let code run in the background. Especially when youre talking about code JassHelper added. You wont even notice. And as i already pointed out, controlling the code seldomly leads to better performance.

I do not know what Deaod and Burbanog were writing since I put them on my ignorelist as they started trolling,

Thats comforting to know. Yes, i did troll with the post you ignored me for. Get over it. I couldve expressed the same with a multitude of lines describing in detail why your code fails so horribly. But i didnt.

so this post may repeat some things they said,

Are you fucking kidding? I'd never repeat the bullshit you wrote. Instead i spent a whole lot of time taking your every argument apart.

though I guess they got no clue about the real differences between vJass and Jass and do not want to admit it, similar to a major part of the "vJass community".

How about you actually try to back your claims up with decent code (or anything that shows you know what youre talking about)?

I really do not care, use what you need to use, but stop those kiddyflames about things you do not know much about, guys.

Get off your high horse. Youre currently the one acting like a child by ignoring and deriding your opponents.

It would be nice if there were kind of "standards" for Jass, too instead of having to do most things yourself.

As Berbanog already mentionend, we had JESP. I say had because it was dropped, since every sane person coded in vJass anyway. Needless to say, vJass resources that were approved generally were in a better shape than JESP resources ever were.

On the other hand I see the creation of systems as a nice training and a good way to optimize processes. In my opinion, you should not simply copy all the things you do not understand.

Copying doesnt require you to understand what the copied code does. But thats the point. You want a black box that does exactly what you want it to do. To use such black boxes, you dont have to understand how the black box works. You only need to know how to interface with the black box.

Also, i can claim that i never used a library i did not understand how it worked. I never used a library i didnt understand how it worked in principle. I didnt care for the implementation details. Those are irrelevant anyway.


-------

If someone wants to do me a favour, quote this post. That should circumvent his stupid ignorance. Please try to leave everything intact.

 

[Berb]

The only real methods of evaluating a library would be:

• Efficiency
• User Interface
• Modularity
• Function

The actual idea underlying a library is not very hard to translate, typically it just results in a lot of unnecessary work. If you're building a map, there is no reason to re-write unit indexing (in certain circumstances) when one has AutoIndex, since the implementation of AutoIndex is so easy to use there is no reason why you would re-code it; other than having something to prove to yourself.

Though (in attempt to re-route this back to the thread topic) there really should not be any restrictions on the libraries that are allowed for these contest entries. It really doesn't matter what library you are using, it is going to be doing a lot of work for you. The fact that knock-back libraries and projectile libraries were disallowed doesn't make much sense considering the amount of work that is put into a system like AutoIndex (which was allowed) is no where compared to the amount of work required to make a Knock Back engine. There is no reasonable explanation as to why systems such as AutoIndex would be allowed and Knock Back (or any library) not allowed, it's really just a psychological idealization that certain libraries do "more" than others. All libraries do exactly what they are meant to do, and just because the task directly affects units doesn't mean that a lot has been accomplished.

 

[Fate]

Omg guys your discussion is annoying. Just open a new topic and continue discussing there.

 

[Berb]

Last few posts have had nothing to do with the argument.

 

[bowser499]

So, where are the results? May, 3...

 

[Piranha89]

I've been coding since roughly when I signed up, december of 05. vJass came about in its crappiest form (structs with no methods and global declarations, which was also buggy as hell, no arrays in the structs, and so on) in early 2007. Deaod has been coding for quite a while as well.
We are the type of people who developed the practices you take for granted (the main credit for JASS knowledge probably goes to PitzerMike, PipeDream, Vexorian, and a few others), and you go on to tell us that we are newbs because we can't code outside an environment that was developed by us due to problems perceived in the language by us? It has since got out of control, but that is a different issue entirely, mostly due to Vexorian just adding whatever he finds cool at the time (good for him, but it bloats the language). Did you ever have to use gamecaches in spells and have horrendously slow results? Did you ever have to find out why your map's stack was getting corrupted and IDs were being spewed everywhere? I doubt it.
That's why I did not say your name in what was supposed to be the "final post to stop that stupid discussion". I did not know you even participated a bit in JNGP's development, but it does not make any difference.
In fact, I experienced each of the things you mentioned. The tornado spell I created some time ago finally made me organize things in parallel arrays, since the gamecache was too slow that amount of actions. Once written (a question of 30 minutes) I use that system for like 2 years now.

It is incredibly easy to implement structs in JASS. It is also incredibly tedious and is quite frankly an utter waste of my time.
I paid that time to be independend from jngp, weu and that freak's hype that mainly occured on wc3campaigns.

vJass makes it easier to do that.
Not for me

Syntax is worth more than you account for. What is useful about data structures in such a high-level language is precisely the abstraction they provide; code written using parallel arrays is messy, tedious, and unreadable.
I do not think so. And I still believe that it's stupid to compare vjass-jass to assemblers-java.

Define "standards". There are many libraries which are considered the correct ones to use to solve their respective functions.
I'm talking about some basic systems like that parallel array usage, which have not really been developed at the time there was no vjass (hell i loved those times).

Let's keep it on that point, I wish to read about the fucking contest, not do a discussion with guys that are not able to get some neutral view about the things we are discussing.
I've had similar discussions with Cedi already and I'm fed up with that, since all that stayed in the end was "I prefer vjass syntax".

 

[elfian]

Damn. Three days since the contest ended and still no word from TriggerHappy. According to his last post, he hasn't even started viewing the spells.. :S

 

[D4RK_G4ND4LF]

if it takes much longer I will have bought the game anyway

release date seems to be 24.06.2010 right now or at least anything within this time
http://www.starcraft-blog.de/pix/gallery/2010-04-09-release-date/sc2-releasedate03.jpg (that's the marine artwork btw)
also some online shops confirmed that date (but it will be released a few days latter at least anyway)

 

[Lambdadelta]

release date seems to be 24.06.2010 right now or at least anything within this time
http://www.starcraft-blog.de/pix/gal...easedate03.jpg (that's the marine artwork btw)
also some online shops confirmed that date (but it will be released a few days latter at least anyway)

Omg! Really! I don't care. My computer can't play so I am upset Hehe. But I am still playing Starcraft 1. Meaning to finish Terran on the original game. Where you have to defend from both Zerg and Protoss. WTF is that.

--

Hopefully this contest doesn't take forever to get graded. *Cough, Water Spell Contest BlizzVault*

 

[Deaod]

That's why I did not say your name in what was supposed to be the "final post to stop that stupid discussion". I did not know you even participated a bit in JNGP's development, but it does not make any difference.

You cant write a final post, if you ignore the whole other side.

In fact, I experienced each of the things you mentioned. The tornado spell I created some time ago finally made me organize things in parallel arrays, since the gamecache was too slow that amount of actions. Once written (a question of 30 minutes) I use that system for like 2 years now.

First, your system fails. Horribly. Secondly, i dont spend TIME writing that shit, I reuse the things already integrated into vJass.

I paid that time to be independend from jngp, weu and that freak's hype that mainly occured on wc3campaigns.

That "freak's hype" brought to you many of the most advanced libraries in existence. You can do a crazy amount of things nowadays that would not have been possible in pure JASS. You can also organize your code better than ever before.

I do not think so. And I still believe that it's stupid to compare vjass-jass to assemblers-java.

Noones trying to do that [ie. Assembly-Java]. You dont compare 2nd level languages to 3rd level languages.

I'm talking about some basic systems like that parallel array usage, which have not really been developed at the time there was no vjass (hell i loved those times).

As a matter of fact, i did it write parallel arrays before i learned how to use structs. Sadly, it was then that i learned that you cant declare globals in pure JASS. I realized i had been working with vJass all along.

Let's keep it on that point, I wish to read about the fucking contest, not do a discussion with guys that are not able to get some neutral view about the things we are discussing.

Arrogance speaking. Your view isnt neutral either. Noones view is neutral.

I've had similar discussions with Cedi already and I'm fed up with that, since all that stayed in the end was "I prefer vjass syntax".

There are hards facts that JASS is inferior to vJass. Berbanog, PurplePoot and me already outlined most (if not all) of them. If you dont acknowledge these, youre a.) ignorant and b.) a moron.
I dont care what you use to write your scripts. You can use JASS all you want. But dont come along telling me that JASS is just soooo much more "pro" than vJass because "you can do every you can do with vJass in JASS" (which is just wrong, see above) and "JASS is faster than vJass" (which is rarely ever true, and when it is, its in trivial cases).

 

[Cardinian]

Contest is concluded already?

Damn... I'm so desperate to get my hands on a Beta key... Does anyone know, through the beta-opt in, if you need a minimum spec on your PC to be eligible?

I have nVidia Ge-Force 7100 GS, 1GB Ram, 1.86 amd Athlon... I've been a keen Blizzard fan since 1994 (I was 5 or 6), with Lost Vikings, then Warcraft I, and II.. Starcraft came out and blew my mind... Diablo I and II were awesome also, many hours spent grinding Act 3 Mephisto runs ... And now obviously Warcraft III takes up most of my free time! And now Blizzard plan to release Starcraft II AND Diablo III! It's almost like they want me to fail my real life ...

[note, I didn't mention my World of Warcraft experience here]...

 

[PurplePoot]

Quote by Berbanog

The only real methods of evaluating a library would be:

• Efficiency
• User Interface
• Modularity
• Function

The actual idea underlying a library is not very hard to translate, typically it just results in a lot of unnecessary work. If you're building a map, there is no reason to re-write unit indexing (in certain circumstances) when one has AutoIndex, since the implementation of AutoIndex is so easy to use there is no reason why you would re-code it; other than having something to prove to yourself.

Though (in attempt to re-route this back to the thread topic) there really should not be any restrictions on the libraries that are allowed for these contest entries. It really doesn't matter what library you are using, it is going to be doing a lot of work for you. The fact that knock-back libraries and projectile libraries were disallowed doesn't make much sense considering the amount of work that is put into a system like AutoIndex (which was allowed) is no where compared to the amount of work required to make a Knock Back engine. There is no reasonable explanation as to why systems such as AutoIndex would be allowed and Knock Back (or any library) not allowed, it's really just a psychological idealization that certain libraries do "more" than others. All libraries do exactly what they are meant to do, and just because the task directly affects units doesn't mean that a lot has been accomplished.

I agree with you, and these rules initially originated before most of the good systems were around (in 08 if I recall correctly), but more importantly when spell contests were largely coding contests. Now (especially for this contest), it makes sense to allow any library, since they seem to be more about the spell itself and less about how it was coded.

Also, I recode libraries for the hell of it, but I recognize that that is not the most efficient way to solve my problems.

--

Piranha, most JASSers active on wc3c from 2007-2008 contributed to JNGP's development with tons of bug reports, discussion and stuff. It's died down a bit since the environment has been more stable since, but it was a total mess in the early days.

Damn. Three days since the contest ended and still no word from TriggerHappy. According to his last post, he hasn't even started viewing the spells.. :S

Goddamn you guys are impatient. Reviewing spells takes time, especially if there are a lot (can't say I counted how many there are in this thread). Often 30 minutes to an hour per decently done spell, which means you want to spread out the work over a week or so.

 

[WarManta]

I could do it within two days most likely for judging that is, nice spells everyone I had fun testing them all out.

 

[elfian]

Goddamn you guys are impatient. Reviewing spells takes time, especially if there are a lot (can't say I counted how many there are in this thread). Often 30 minutes to an hour per decently done spell, which means you want to spread out the work over a week or so.

Dude, I'm not complaining about his reviewing time, I'm complaining that he hasn't even started.

I haven't started reviewing.
I'll make a post once I have.

 

[PurplePoot]

Dude, I'm not complaining about his reviewing time, I'm complaining that he hasn't even started.

Fair enough then.

I could do it within two days most likely for judging that is, nice spells everyone I had fun testing them all out.

Spoken like somebody with very little experience doing so.

 

[lightmax]

Guys, stop it. This topic is for contest spell posting. Not human judging.

 

[Stonebludgeon]

Guys, stop it. This topic is for contest spell posting. Not human judging.

I tried to read through all these replies but can you guys stop trolling and going offtopic its a pointless waste of time.

 

[PurplePoot]

Do you people even know what trolling means?

 

[elfian]

Do you people even know what trolling means?

Shut the !@#$ up !@#$%, nobody asked you about your opinion (finger) Your country is !@#, and you father is a !@#$. You are such a !@#$, go cry to your mommy.

^
|
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That should be trolling. No? I didn't mean to insult anyone, just giving an example Hope I don't get a warning for this, even tho I censored it. We are so converting this topic to off topic. To avoid that:

I wish everyone good luck! ^^ Let us all get a beta key! I hope that we will have some nice results soon and TriggerHappy will be a fine judge! ^^ <--- now that's even more spam :S